View Full Version : Can this be done? (breeding question)
daddy and son
11-27-11, 11:03 AM
Hi all,
My son and I are wanting to do some breeding with our two female oketees when they get old enough. My son was asking if you could cross breed a corn snake with a rat snake. I wasn't sure myself, so I figured I'd run it by you guys. Might make for some interesting pairings. Thoughts?
alessia55
11-27-11, 11:07 AM
Isn't a creamsicle corn snake a cornXrat snake? Think I've heard that few times. I'm also pretty sure I've seen a lot of cornXrat hybrid snakes at expos
The creamsicle corn is a amel corn crossed with a amel great plains rat snake. Corn snakes are actually red rat snakes them selves. You can also breed them to kings and milks.
youngster
11-27-11, 12:30 PM
You can, but most people advise against it.
snake man12
11-27-11, 12:41 PM
Do people advise against it because they want to keep blood lines pure?
daddy and son
11-27-11, 01:17 PM
You can, but most people advise against it.
For what reason?
Do people advise against it because they want to keep blood lines pure?
Yep. It gets impossible to tell down the road (like numerous generations after the first integrade) what you actually have.
There are a lot of other snakes that can also be cross-bred. Some are for it; many are opposed to it.
All the best!
daddy and son
11-27-11, 01:27 PM
okay... makes sense.. might be interesting just to see what we get, even if we never continue to breed them down the line. Got an idea for something we might want to try out.
millertime89
11-27-11, 04:28 PM
do share. I'm not against cross breeding completely, but I'm not exactly a fan. Granted there are some STUNNING cross breeds out there.
daddy and son
11-27-11, 05:26 PM
Was thinking something like a corn with bright red spots (maybe a candy cane or something like that) with a green-red tail rat. See if maybe we get a green snake with red spots. Would be interesting to see if it worked.
millertime89
11-27-11, 05:42 PM
the problem with a candy cane is its a selective bred amelanistic. Amel is a recessive trait, so you would need 2 breedings to produce the desired outcome. Even then you might not get what you want because amel removes black pigment, so I'm not sure how it would affect the green.
source:
Amelanistic | Cornsnake Morph Gallery (http://www.cornsnakemorphgallery.com/amelanistic/)
Candycane | Cornsnake Morph Gallery (http://www.cornsnakemorphgallery.com/candycane/)
Red-tailed Green Ratsnake -- (Elaphe [Gonyosoma] oxycephala) (http://www.ratsnakes.com/Eoxycephala.html)
millertime89
11-27-11, 05:45 PM
nevermind, they're unrelated despite their common names
can you breed a corn snake and a red tailed green rat snak - JustAnswer (http://www.justanswer.com/pet-reptile/2tiyi-breed-corn-snake-red-tailed-green-rat-snak.html)
daddy and son
11-27-11, 06:47 PM
Bummer... so much for that idea! Would have made an interesting combination.
Yea, corns can only be cross bred with other north american rats, milks and kings. Just make sure you keep track of the genetics and if or when you sell any make sure they are correctly labeled. I'm not against it, but I'm not a huge fan of it.
daddy and son
11-27-11, 10:49 PM
good info to know! my wife is adamantly opposed to ANY snake with red eyes, so that limits some of my options. May look around a bit more and see what we come up with.
Shmoges
11-28-11, 12:03 AM
I've been told that practically all offspring from those pairings are sterile. I myself am planning on trying to breed our het albino gopher male and female to our corns for fun to get some jungle corns maybe next year.
sassy_snake_lady
11-28-11, 02:40 AM
Was thinking something like a corn with bright red spots (maybe a candy cane or something like that) with a green-red tail rat. See if maybe we get a green snake with red spots. Would be interesting to see if it worked.
Unfortunatley it doesn't quite work like that.
I have 2 jungle corns. They are from a snow corn x Durango mountain king.
This is what they produced
Male
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207246_175702285814355_100001237556772_427299_1659 170_n.jpg
Female
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/216883_175702169147700_100001237556772_427294_3176 213_n.jpg
I am breeding this pair this season.
To get really interesting colours and patterns you really need to put years into hybrids.
Check out the gallery on this website. It shows what can be done but like I say it takes many years.
Uk-Hybrids - The home of exceptional captive bred Colubrids - Uk-Hybrids (http://www.uk-hybrids.com/)
I've been told that practically all offspring from those pairings are sterile. I myself am planning on trying to breed our het albino gopher male and female to our corns for fun to get some jungle corns maybe next year.
Actually colubrid hybrids are not sterile, that's what makes hybridizing colubrids fun. I don't know what you get by breeding gophers to corns, but it's certainly not a jungle corn. A jungle corn is a corn x king.
millertime89
11-28-11, 01:18 PM
good info to know! my wife is adamantly opposed to ANY snake with red eyes, so that limits some of my options. May look around a bit more and see what we come up with.
awe... but albinos are so cool!
what about orange? retics have the coolest orange eyes.
lady_bug87
11-28-11, 01:22 PM
hahaha retic x corn
funniest most awkward lock up ever
millertime89
11-28-11, 01:44 PM
lol, the retic would crush the corn.
youngster
11-28-11, 02:03 PM
How about a DK to a retic? :)
Would be like King Kong and a pygmy marmoset :p
bighillreptiles
11-28-11, 02:11 PM
corn x king snake corn x bull snakes pines gophers milk snakes the list goes on
lady_bug87
11-28-11, 02:36 PM
its tempting to cross my whitesided bull with like a candy cane corn snake, or one of those sunfires
millertime89
11-28-11, 06:07 PM
its tempting to cross my whitesided bull with like a candy cane corn snake, or one of those sunfires
like I said earlier, candy cane is recessive and really just a nickname for selectively breed Amels. Would take 2 generations at least to get an amel corn x bull. Not necessarily even a candy cane.
lady_bug87
11-28-11, 06:28 PM
its true... I forgot about that but the sunfire could work
Hi all,
My son and I are wanting to do some breeding with our two female oketees when they get old enough. My son was asking if you could cross breed a corn snake with a rat snake. I wasn't sure myself, so I figured I'd run it by you guys. Might make for some interesting pairings. Thoughts?
You asked for thoughts and I would like to offer a different one, though I'm guessing it may not be the one you are looking for. I think that the question here is really not "if" but rather "why". In other words why do you want to breed them?
When I first started getting things right with the husbandry of my reptiles I, too, wanted to breed. We are proud of having created a good environment for our animal and breeding is a sort of 'proof'. However all sorts of problems arise from this. First, are you prepared through research, finances and time to commit to this? There's a lot more to it than putting two healthy animals together, especially when the babies arrive. Second, what will you do if something goes wrong? Having eggs/babies can be a pretty stressful thing on a mother. Third, what will you do with the babies once they do breed? If you don't plan on keeping them all yourself (and remember, they have a lot of babies), have you picked out a dozen or more good homes already? After they're born is not the time to frantically search for homes. That was my mistake in breeding my BPs. I got to a point where I knew I was selling to people who were really not good owners. There are many reasons not to, these are just off the top of my head.
I think dogs and cats might be a good example. We rightly feel responsible now to spay and neuter them. Even most pet stores don't sell dogs and cats anymore, but they have plenty of $15 snakes. And so does the animal rescue shelter near you. I say enjoy your snakes for the amazing animals they are, and keep them separate
millertime89
11-28-11, 11:54 PM
Very nicely put Jarich.
candyraver69
11-29-11, 12:36 AM
I am going to be a downer and go ahead and second the comment that you may not want to based on, what will you do with the babies?
Normals are not easy to find homes for. Out of my clutch this year I managed to sell ONE normal and have all the rest still eating up pinkies like little leeches on my wallet lol. Hybrids are going to be even MORE difficult because some people are very opposed to them. If you are okay with walking into a reptile store and handing them the clutch for free, not knowing if they went to a good home, by all means.... but if you care about them going to a good home like I do, be prepared to have a lot of snakes.
daddy and son
12-05-11, 08:41 AM
good input guys. Since I'm new to this, I thought it might be interesting to try and come up with some new pairings. My girls are just babies, hatched this past summer, so I have plenty of time before they can breed. Daniel (my son) wants to breed them and sell the babies to make some extra money for himself. But as you noted, I'd have to see what the demand for them is like before I commit to it.
Awesome! Thank you for thinking this through. I really appreciate your willingness to logically discuss this. Many people just want what they want and are unwilling to reconsider anything else.
candyraver69
12-06-11, 02:17 PM
If you go through with it, please keep me in mind. I would happily buy 2+.
Something in particular that might be nice to see would be a leucistic texas rat snake crossed with the corn, because as of now the only morph in corns anywhere close to leucistic is palmetto. You wouldn't get leucistic the first generation, but some of the grandchildren would be. I know it's been done before, but it's not something you see much of like you do the typical emoryi x corn crosses (rootbeers and creamsicles). Leucistic have gorgeous blue eyes, so your wife shouldn't mind :)
I bet if you tried beforehand you could get a few others to commit to wanting something if you had a particular pairing in mind. But it would take a bit of footwork to find people interested, so it's good to find willing people first, and breed last.
candyraver69
12-06-11, 02:22 PM
Here is a good photo of a leucistic texas rat snake (not my photo, I just googled it and looked for a high quality one you could see well).
Leucistic Texas rat snake | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwetboy/3400485728/)
daddy and son
12-07-11, 07:56 AM
cool Candy, I will keep you posted. Funny you should post that, that's exactly what he and I were considering! Might make some interesting pairings. I like the idea of getting people to commit in advance, I may have them "commit" with a deposit too. They're more likely to follow through if they have some money already tied up in it.
@ Jarich. Thanks! It just makes good sense to research something like this and to ask questions and learn.
You know there are wild rat snake x corn snake hybrids in the wild, so it shouldn't be a problem as long as you keep good records. I think I might just have to make that a breeding project later on! A leucistic corn sounds awesome!
KORBIN5895
12-07-11, 09:03 AM
cool Candy, I will keep you posted. Funny you should post that, that's exactly what he and I were considering! Might make some interesting pairings. I like the idea of getting people to commit in advance, I may have them "commit" with a deposit too. They're more likely to follow through if they have some money already tied up in it.
@ Jarich. Thanks! It just makes good sense to research something like this and to ask questions and learn.
I am always looking to make money and do business. A deposit is a must. Too many people tend to back out..... I have sold my atb like four times now. The last guy put an one hundred dollar deposit and tried to back out..... he is now missing one hundred dollars.
daddy and son
12-07-11, 12:10 PM
I am always looking to make money and do business. A deposit is a must. Too many people tend to back out..... I have sold my atb like four times now. The last guy put an one hundred dollar deposit and tried to back out..... he is now missing one hundred dollars.
Yeah, saying you want one is one thing, putting up cash for it is something else.
As the old saying goes, "Money talks, BS walks" (sanitized for the forum)
candyraver69
12-10-11, 08:03 PM
cool Candy, I will keep you posted. Funny you should post that, that's exactly what he and I were considering! Might make some interesting pairings. I like the idea of getting people to commit in advance, I may have them "commit" with a deposit too. They're more likely to follow through if they have some money already tied up in it.
@ Jarich. Thanks! It just makes good sense to research something like this and to ask questions and learn.
I like that idea. I would be happy to throw down a deposit for leucistic texas rat x corn, a 1.1 or 1.2 would be fantastic. so definitely keep me in the loop :)
Shmoges
12-17-11, 04:31 PM
If you go through with it, please keep me in mind. I would happily buy 2+.
I happen to have corns (varying morphs), gophers (het albino), and blue eyed lucys...... and I may choose to experiment with offspring provided I have takers for babies.
I am in no rush to peruse this possibility because my animals are pets not breeders and its not about money since I'm not running a business. I still have a lot to learn about genetics and what if anything I may want to try within certain species before I go mad scientist!!
I have personal goals with my snakes behavior wise that take priority over breeding anyways. I have turned "biters" into lovers and want to keep practicing on being a snake wisperer lol.
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