Feelin' hot, Hot, HOT! Oh yeah!

[Will0W783]

Because so many of my friends here have asked about what hots my fiance and I have acquired, I decided to start a thread about them. I will say at the very start of this, that I would not recommend anyone to keep venomous snakes. While they are legal in many states and cities (including mine), they are a very serious hobby to take up, and require a conscious, tough decision from the keeper and everyone in his/her family. Anyone that may come to visit you lays their life in your hands every time they set foot in your house. By keeping venomous snakes, you are making the decision to risk your life and the lives of the other people and pets that live with you, EVERY SINGLE DAY. It's a big weight on one's shoulders. However, when everyone agrees to accept the risk and responsibility, venomous snakes can be some of the most rewarding and beautiful captives.

First up- "Green Goblin" -2010 Eyelash viper (Bothriechis schlegellii)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/fd91c298.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/7cfc5836.jpg

[Will0W783]

Since I can only post a few pictures per post, each snake will be in its own "reply".

Next is "Gremlin" - female Usumbara mountain horned bush viper (Atheris ceratophora). She's a tiny thing, but has BIG attitude!
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/3ccf07a7.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/77ff722c.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/e1aa9000.jpg

[stephanbakir]

Sexy snakes, but you jacked our name :P We have a carpet python named gremlin with a haunted gremlin body embedded in his head patterns.

[Will0W783]

Next is "Bisa Ular," my gorgeous Malaysian phase Wagler's temple viper (Tropidolaemus wagleri). Her name means "snake of poison" in Malay. Wagler's are impressive pitvipers, with massive heads and huge pits, but are surprisingly laid-back. Bisa is no exception- a beautiful, scary, pleasant-mannered snake.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/8b55d144.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/2bbea925.jpg

[Will0W783]

Then there is "Shelby," my 2011 albino monocled cobra, Naja kaouthia.
He has his own thread, but here are a few pictures of him anyway!
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/4a15c1a3.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/a9e6550c.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/5915325a.jpg

[stephanbakir]

Shelby is hot, i hope she brightens up :)

[Will0W783]

And finally, here is "Miss Buzztail," a 2009 Crotalus atrox I took in from my cousin, who had almost killed her. She has the most severe case of belly scale rot I've ever seen. I'm treating her with betadine dips and antibiotics, and she is steadily improving. I'm not sure that I'll keep her once she is healed, as my fiance is afraid of her readiness to strike and the risk she poses, but if I do rehome her, I will be very selective. She's gone through a lot, poor thing.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/c45f467b.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/af1b1525.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305299_2194167569322_1101150022_32062976_930631039 _n.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/IMG_8669.jpg



***For more pictures of these guys, check out the following two threads:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/photography-discussion/88869-day-reptiles-pic-heavy.html
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-venomous-forum/89182-shelby-thread.html

[Gungirl]

Stunning snakes Kim.. you have BALLS! lol I could never own anything like that.

[stephanbakir]

Could you define the risk of your rattler over the other hots? especially the naja?
Just curious as to how he defines it.

[alessia55]

I love all of these guys... from a distance or through a glass pane :p

[exwizard]

Stunning snakes Kim.. you have BALLS! lol I could never own anything like that.
I agree with this totally. I admire this collection of yours but even if it were legal here, I dont think I could ever have anything like this. Awesome snakes for sure!

[lady_bug87]

how do you treat the scale rot if shes trying to strike? I agree with Kat....

[Will0W783]

Could you define the risk of your rattler over the other hots? especially the naja? Just curious as to how he defines it.

In actuality, I do not consider her any more dangerous. My fiance has bizarre logic processes sometimes. He says the rattler is more likely to bite someone than the cobra, and since it is rated as more potent than the arboreal vipers, he considers that riskier. I do not agree, and would like to keep the rattler if she pulls through. She is far from out of the woods yet.
I don't agree with his thinking- it does not consider that fact that a rattler is usually pretty recognizable as a dangerous creature. Even most people who know nothing about snakes can recognize a rattlesnake. The cobra is only recognizable to non-snake people as a cobra when it is hooded up, and the arboreal vipers are not that terribly dangerous-looking. So why he thinks the rattlesnake is more likely to get ahold of someone than the others is beyond me. I use trap/shift boxes, tongs, hooks, and thick gloves with every single one of them, regardless of the animal's temper, venom potency, or agility. It's just foolish in my opinion to consider any hot more of less dangerous than any other.
In the words of Viperkeeper, "the most venomous snake in the world is the one that just bit you."

[stephanbakir]

Yeh, but the way i look at it is, most of the crotalus will just ride the hook, when peaved they will ride the hook and rattle, rarely striking but even then... just stay out of range.
Most of the elapids will slither right up the hook, and the cobras will not only climb the hook, but do it shockingly fast. The likelyhood of getting hit by a cobra is way higher then a rattler.

[alessia55]

Even most people who know nothing about snakes can recognize a rattlesnake. The cobra is only recognizable to non-snake people as a cobra when it is hooded up, and the arboreal vipers are not that terribly dangerous-looking.

I can attest to this. My mom knows nothing about snakes whatsoever. She has known my BP Kaybe for 2 years and when I bought Pika, my baby BP, she asked me what he was LOL. When my mom came to visit me I decided to go through the photos I'd taken of Kim's snakes and asked her to tell me whether or not she knew what the snake in the picture was, and whether or not she would think they're venomous. I showed her the photo of Kim's rattler that I took, and she immediately said "Wow! Is that a rattlesnake?!" She was definitely aware that they are venomous. Then when it came to the photo of Shelby the cobra NOT hooded up, she said "Oh, that's pretty. Kinda looks like that corn snake you had a few years ago!" (not kidding here). The next picture was of Shelby all hooded up and immediately it was "OMG! It's a cobra! Definitely venomous." Her reaction to the photos of Kim's Wagler pit viper was "It looks like it's a venomous snake, but I'm not sure." With regards to the bush viper and the eyelash viper, she said they looked like "mini-jungle snakes" (whatever that means). She said she didn't think that, just by looking at them, that they were venomous. So to the untrained eye, the only "dangerous-looking" ones were the ratter and the cobra when he was hooded. Goes to show how much it would help if more people were educated about venomous snakes and how to recognize them.

I fully trust Kim's ability to handle her venomous snakes. And when she cleans their cages and I'm in the room, she tells me exactly how far away to stand to be completely safe (and then I usually take an extra step back just in case lol). If I want to get a little closer for a photo, it has to be through the glass of their enclosure.

[Will0W783]

Yeh, but the way i look at it is, most of the crotalus will just ride the hook, when peaved they will ride the hook and rattle, rarely striking but even then... just stay out of range.Most of the elapids will slither right up the hook, and the cobras will not only climb the hook, but do it shockingly fast. The likelyhood of getting hit by a cobra is way higher then a rattler.

I agree with you, Stephan. I think my fiance is at ease around Shelby because of his apparent good nature. However, he IS a Naja and unpredictable. He flails around like a nut on the hook, and has tried to double-back to climb it several times. He's only about a foot and a half long right now, but he'll get bigger. Also, the cobras I worked with at my mentor's facility all tried to climb the hook- they are very fast and while they generally do not double back with the intent to bite, they could and you have to be constantly on your toes to keep the head down at the end of the hook. I do not let my fiance handle the cobra AT ALL. He refused training and seems to think he won't get bitten. Therefore, he does not get to work with the cobra.

The rattlesnake will strike at the hook and tongs repeatedly when you are trying to catch her, but once she is on the hook or tongs, she mostly just rattles and flails a bit. She does strike the tongs sometimes as she is being moved, which is why I think my fiance is nervous around her. She is a WDB, and they are known for being particularly nasty. It was not my intention to get a rattlesnake right now, let alone a WDB as my first, but after I saw the condition she was in, I could not bear to let my cousin take her back home. He brought her and several others to Hamburg to try to trade or sell.

[Will0W783]

Thanks Alessia!

[stephanbakir]

I agree with you, Stephan. I think my fiance is at ease around Shelby because of his apparent good nature. However, he IS a Naja and unpredictable. He flails around like a nut on the hook, and has tried to double-back to climb it several times. He's only about a foot and a half long right now, but he'll get bigger. Also, the cobras I worked with at my mentor's facility all tried to climb the hook- they are very fast and while they generally do not double back with the intent to bite, they could and you have to be constantly on your toes to keep the head down at the end of the hook. I do not let my fiance handle the cobra AT ALL. He refused training and seems to think he won't get bitten. Therefore, he does not get to work with the cobra.

The rattlesnake will strike at the hook and tongs repeatedly when you are trying to catch her, but once she is on the hook or tongs, she mostly just rattles and flails a bit. She does strike the tongs sometimes as she is being moved, which is why I think my fiance is nervous around her. She is a WDB, and they are known for being particularly nasty. It was not my intention to get a rattlesnake right now, let alone a WDB as my first, but after I saw the condition she was in, I could not bear to let my cousin take her back home. He brought her and several others to Hamburg to try to trade or sell.
No offense but he needs a huge reality check. Thinking the way he does WILL get him either maimed or killed. Hes lucky as hell that shelby is placid. If I dropped a lid in Lucifer's enclosure (one of our king cobras a few years back) he would have shot out like a bat out of hell and retaliated. Same goes for most cobras i've worked with.
It was an accident and accidents happen, but your mindset going into the incident greatly affects the outcome and weather you will walk out of the situation.

[Will0W783]

I agree Stephan. I am having my fiance work with my Spilotes, who is hell on wheels. She is fast, aggressive, will musk readily and is unpredictable on a hook. I want him to get comfortable with her and I will judge when and IF I feel he is skilled enough to work with the cobra.

I know that there is always a chance I could be bitten- it is a risk every hot keeper takes. You cannot, absolutely CANNOt- get complacent and comfortable. That is when mistakes happen, and you get hurt or killed.
John does take precautions, and is not without skill, but he has a tendency to want to take over to "protect" me and he needs to realize that out of the two of us, I may have been bitten more by non-hots, but I also worked with them more, and I received venomous training that he did not. I have done a lot of training with him, passing on what my mentor taught me to John, but he still has a way to go before I will be comfortable with him handling hots.

[Gungirl]

Kim... why not get John to see your mentor. Talk about why, what and when. That might be better than coming from you.

[Will0W783]

Planning is in the works for John to go, if I can get him willing to.

[Gungirl]

That would be best. make him a deal he can't refuse.

[ugo]

Mr WilloW783 :

CONGRATS either for the snakes and for Ur responsible and wise way to see the matter !

As i'll, possibly, say in another post, snakes aren't for everyone, and venomous even less.
I recognize only less than 40 1st class venomous keepers/ breeders on Earth (i m not amongst those).
Anyway, as for motorcycling, or paragliding, or many others activities, we all know things happen, sooner or later; no matter how much skilled or experienced one can be, only some of us (and i hope U r not in this group) don't mind, above all cuz we don't like to become so old to need hospitals, needles, chateters, and similar stuff; and...sexy nurses are becoming so rare......
I suppose U keep pairs of Ur snakes.
cheers

[stephanbakir]

Mr WilloW783 :

CONGRATS either for the snakes and for Ur responsible and wise way to see the matter !

As i'll, possibly, say in another post, snakes aren't for everyone, and venomous even less.
I recognize only less than 40 1st class venomous keepers/ breeders on Earth (i m not amongst those).
Anyway, as for motorcycling, or paragliding, or many others activities, we all know things happen, sooner or later; no matter how much skilled or experienced one can be, only some of us (and i hope U r not in this group) don't mind, above all cuz we don't like to become so old to need hospitals, needles, chateters, and similar stuff; and...sexy nurses are becoming so rare......
I suppose U keep pairs of Ur snakes.
cheers
Willow is a she :P and I don't believe she has any shortterm breeding plans for those hots, as she doesn't own pairs.

[KORBIN5895]

Personally I treat all snakes as venomous in the wild. I love to catch wild snakes and have got bit twice.....totally my fault for trusting someone to help me both times. When I first moved to IL I knew nothing about what a copperhead or cottonmouth looked like so I treated all snakes like they could really mess me up

[stephanbakir]

anyone moving to a new area should learn what the dangerous animals in that area look like.

[KORBIN5895]

I totally agree ...... I was 11 when I moved there from LA. I didn't think to do that the

[Will0W783]

KORBIN, I agree that becoming familiar with dangerous animals in one's area is very important. I can recognize the venomous and non-venomous species in my area, but I do not generally bother snakes in the wild. If I see one, I observe from a safe distance and move along. The only American species that confuses me is the coral snake- I honestly have trouble distinguishing a true coral snake from a scarlet snake or look-alike kingsnakes, so if I saw a red, yellow and black snake I would not go near it.

Ugo, yep I'm a girl. :) I have been into reptiles and snakes especially for as long as I can remember. My fiance, John, also enjoys them but I am the primary herp-fanatic of the house. I do not have any plans to breed venomous- I enjoy their presence in my house and working with them, but every new hot is a risk, and babies would multiply that risk by each baby produced. It just doesn't seem worth that much risk at this point, and I also do not have much breeding experience with non-venomous. Maybe someday I'll breed some, but I don't have any plans for it in the foreseeable future.

[shaunyboy]

Since I can only post a few pictures per post, each snake will be in its own "reply".

Next is "Gremlin" - female Usumbara mountain horned bush viper (Atheris ceratophora). She's a tiny thing, but has BIG attitude!
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/3ccf07a7.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/77ff722c.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/e1aa9000.jpg

amazing collection

the horned viper is my favorite kimberly

the blue colour inside his mouth is very nice

thanks for sharing

cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

Thanks Shauny...she's a fun girl to have. I tried to get a better shot of her mouth- Atheris species are not shy to gape their mouths as a defensive posture...horned bush vipers have a blue to black inside lining, much like carpet pythons. It's really neat, and you can see the outline of her fangs when she gapes wide at you. Plus I think she looks like a dragon with her keeled scales. :)

[ugo]

Dear MISS Will0W,

i apologize so much for my bad gender mistaking !!!!!!, but glad that 1 more Girl is in the venomous.

May i be honest?

I don't understand people keeping whatever animals for...nothing. It's unnatural for the kept, and 'suspect' for the Keeper.

a last thing towards all the Members posting replies to Ur nice post :

i know none of U, and surely i'll be wrong; please don't turn too much bad with me (but i m unable to lie, and i wish to know none of U in danger) but for what i read NONE of U had to keep venomous, none i saw having a right back.ground either of knowledge and experience, and,sincerely, none of U showed the typical symptoms of a true venomous keeper, only curiosity and a kind of 'challenge'.
In my opinion there are so many non venomous snakes more worthy to be kept and bred.
I was honest and my intention wasn't to be umpolite or offend anyone, but only to help avoiding possible future troubles:too many accidents and losses last 2 years amongst Friends either paragliders and venomous keepers , and every times ,besides the pain, that bad, guilty, feeling
"why not me?"
Now, feel free to shoot to me!
cheers

[alessia55]

May i be honest?

I don't understand people keeping whatever animals for...nothing. It's unnatural for the kept, and 'suspect' for the Keeper.


I have 2 male ball pythons, and as of right now, I don't plan to ever find mates for them to breed them. I keep them as my pets, I enjoy taking care of them, and I enjoy their company. I know this mentality does not apply for keeping venomous snakes, but I wanted to maybe give you a little insight into why someone might keep a snake with no intentions to ever breed. :)

[stephanbakir]

Dear MISS Will0W,

i apologize so much for my bad gender mistaking !!!!!!, but glad that 1 more Girl is in the venomous.

May i be honest?

I don't understand people keeping whatever animals for...nothing. It's unnatural for the kept, and 'suspect' for the Keeper.

a last thing towards all the Members posting replies to Ur nice post :

i know none of U, and surely i'll be wrong; please don't turn too much bad with me (but i m unable to lie, and i wish to know none of U in danger) but for what i read NONE of U had to keep venomous, none i saw having a right back.ground either of knowledge and experience, and,sincerely, none of U showed the typical symptoms of a true venomous keeper, only curiosity and a kind of 'challenge'.
In my opinion there are so many non venomous snakes more worthy to be kept and bred.
I was honest and my intention wasn't to be umpolite or offend anyone, but only to help avoiding possible future troubles:too many accidents and losses last 2 years amongst Friends either paragliders and venomous keepers , and every times ,besides the pain, that bad, guilty, feeling
"why not me?"
Now, feel free to shoot to me!
cheers
Only a handful of people no this forum keep, or have kept hots.
Willow (kim) took ages to learn as much as she could about each and every one of her animals before acquiring it. She has a snakeproof room, locked enclosures, she follows husbandry to a tee. While there are a few people on this forum who improperly house/keep their hots, every time we see the errors we call them on it.

I myself have kept hots, I've only bred a few, and for the most part I kept them for educational purposes.
They are not a pet for everyone, and there are not a pet MOST people should own, even when following husbandry perfectly its still possible to get tagged.

[shaunyboy]

Only a handful of people no this forum keep, or have kept hots.
Willow (kim) took ages to learn as much as she could about each and every one of her animals before acquiring it. She has a snakeproof room, locked enclosures, she follows husbandry to a tee. While there are a few people on this forum who improperly house/keep their hots, every time we see the errors we call them on it.

I myself have kept hots, I've only bred a few, and for the most part I kept them for educational purposes.
They are not a pet for everyone, and there are not a pet MOST people should own, even when following husbandry perfectly its still possible to get tagged.


willow also has a mentor

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

Personally i would never consider a hot as a PET like i do my other reptiles, the same as i wouldnt consider a loaded gun a toy - the responsibility that comes with owning one makes it not fun for me and if it isnt fun then i wont do it!

I am NOT saying that others shouldnt keep them tho - this is personal to me and me alone :)

[Freebody]

Kim you never sees to amaze me :) I love the cobra, if i ever decide to keep a hot, it will certainly have to be one like the albino molocan you have, I love the way it looks with the hood open :)

[Will0W783]

Thanks guys!

Ugo, you have a valid point, but I could counter your point with why keep a dog if you're not going to breed it? Why keep a cat, or any animal for that matter? I love my animals and respect them and am in constant awe of their grace, agility, and majesty. They bring joy into my life- what other reason is better to keep them?
I agree that too many people rush into keeping hots purely for the "rush" or the bragging rights to boast to their friends about what they own. I do not keep hots BECAUSE they challenge me, nor do I keep them BECAUSE they are dangerous....I keep them because of their beauty and majesty and because they are unique, and I RESPECT them because they are dangerous and a challenge. This forum only has a few people that keep hots, and the ones who go about it wrongly and irresponsibly usually don't last long here. You won't find me, or any of the other hot-keepers on here arguing that more people should keep hots or that they are for everyone- they are not. I would never recommend them to anyone; however, if one trains diligently and gets a mentor and does one's research, it is their choice. I'm sorry you have lost people close to you via snakebite- that must be a very tough thing to go through. My condolences to you.

Thanks Freebody- I love his colors too. :) If you are thinking of ever getting into elapids, I highly recommend keeping red-tailed green rat snakes, or Spilotes and mangrove snakes first. They are not the same thing, but are fairly decent specimens for fine-tuning your hooking and tailing techniques, and for learning to anticipate quick agile movements and hook-climbing. A cobra will try to climb the hook like there's no tomorrow...it's a constant dance to keep them at the end and away from you.

[jarich]

i know none of U, and surely i'll be wrong; please don't turn too much bad with me (but i m unable to lie, and i wish to know none of U in danger) but for what i read NONE of U had to keep venomous, none i saw having a right back.ground either of knowledge and experience, and,sincerely, none of U showed the typical symptoms of a true venomous keeper, only curiosity and a kind of 'challenge'.
In my opinion there are so many non venomous snakes more worthy to be kept and ...

Im just curious as to what you think are the typical symptoms of a true venomous keeper, Ugo?

[Will0W783]

I'm curious of that too.... it's somewhat insulting to tell someone who has trained diligently, researched extensively, and taken years to work up to hot keeping, that they are not a "true venomous keeper." I will admit I took a bit of offense to that, and it's generally pretty hard to offend me.

I personally would consider the following as characteristics/requirements for a good venomous reptile keeper:
1. Knowledge of species desired and general experience with reptiles. One should have a good handle on basic husbandry and handling practices- hooking,
tailing, feeding problem feeders, medicating, maintaining temps and
humidity, etc. as well as experience with a wide variety of non-venomous
species.

2. Preparation. A good keeper will have all medical records, antivenom lists,
doctor contacts, and bite treatment protocols in an accessible place before
an animal is brought in. A venomous snake should NEVER be an impulse
purchase.

3. Patience, patience, patience.
I cannot stress enough the importance of taking time to lay out all supplies
in a convenient arrangement before beginning work with a hot. Every time.
One also cannot get frustrated when an animal is uncooperative, and one
absolutely cannot ever be in a hurry when working with venomous snakes.

4. Attention to detail. the successful hot-keeper will be able to immediately
notice where an animal is in its cage, if the cage needs cleaning, if the
animal is displaying any signs of illness, and will be constantly aware of the
animal's movements and any obstacles or dangers in the room while they
are working with an animal.

5. Ability to remain calm under pressure or in danger.
One must be able to remain calm and in full control when working with
these animals. Panicking when an animal struggles or attacks causes the
keeper to be less aware and can leave him or her with reduced
judgement skills and can easily lead to mistakes. In the event one is bitten,
staying calm can reduce the speed with which the venom spreads, potentially
saving one's life or at least reducing the severity of the bite.

6. Good organizational skills.
A good "hot room" will be clean, free of clutter, spacious, and will always
have cages and supplies laid out in easy-to-access, logical manners,
providing no routes of escape or hiding for the snakes, and allowing the
keeper space to easily and safely care for the animals.


...And last but not least...

Any good venomous keeper will have an unfaltering love and respect for these fascinating creatures. He or she will want to constantly deeper his/her knowledge of venomous snakes and all reptiles and will display passion for the herpetocultural hobby.

[lady_bug87]

^^ annnd BOOM goes the dynamite

[candyraver69]

Very gorgeous creatures. Nothing I will ever be up for, but they are certainly fascinating to see. I have to live vicariously and adore yours and others on this forum :)

[candyraver69]

I'm curious of that too.... it's somewhat insulting to tell someone who has trained diligently, researched extensively, and taken years to work up to hot keeping, that they are not a "true venomous keeper." I will admit I took a bit of offense to that, and it's generally pretty hard to offend me.

I personally would consider the following as characteristics/requirements for a good venomous reptile keeper:
1. Knowledge of species desired and general experience with reptiles. One should have a good handle on basic husbandry and handling practices- hooking,
tailing, feeding problem feeders, medicating, maintaining temps and
humidity, etc. as well as experience with a wide variety of non-venomous
species.

2. Preparation. A good keeper will have all medical records, antivenom lists,
doctor contacts, and bite treatment protocols in an accessible place before
an animal is brought in. A venomous snake should NEVER be an impulse
purchase.

3. Patience, patience, patience.
I cannot stress enough the importance of taking time to lay out all supplies
in a convenient arrangement before beginning work with a hot. Every time.
One also cannot get frustrated when an animal is uncooperative, and one
absolutely cannot ever be in a hurry when working with venomous snakes.

4. Attention to detail. the successful hot-keeper will be able to immediately
notice where an animal is in its cage, if the cage needs cleaning, if the
animal is displaying any signs of illness, and will be constantly aware of the
animal's movements and any obstacles or dangers in the room while they
are working with an animal.

5. Ability to remain calm under pressure or in danger.
One must be able to remain calm and in full control when working with
these animals. Panicking when an animal struggles or attacks causes the
keeper to be less aware and can leave him or her with reduced
judgement skills and can easily lead to mistakes. In the event one is bitten,
staying calm can reduce the speed with which the venom spreads, potentially
saving one's life or at least reducing the severity of the bite.

6. Good organizational skills.
A good "hot room" will be clean, free of clutter, spacious, and will always
have cages and supplies laid out in easy-to-access, logical manners,
providing no routes of escape or hiding for the snakes, and allowing the
keeper space to easily and safely care for the animals.


...And last but not least...

Any good venomous keeper will have an unfaltering love and respect for these fascinating creatures. He or she will want to constantly deeper his/her knowledge of venomous snakes and all reptiles and will display passion for the herpetocultural hobby.

I think these are the important points to keeping hots. Some people might think breeding them or having certain ones, or a certain amount might be the qualifier, but to me that just sounds like brag rights which is all the WRONG reasons. I have far more respect for someone like you who knows their limits and grows their collection as their experience grows and at the rate you are comfortable with than someone who has 1000 hots or the most deadly hot on the planet.

[ZARADOZIA]

Kim, all I can say is WOW. One day, I would very much like to see your babies first hand. I'm a bit envious of Alessia now...lol

[alessia55]

Kim, all I can say is WOW. One day, I would very much like to see your babies first hand. I'm a bit envious of Alessia now...lol

hehehehe :D lucky for all of you I post enough pics of all of Kim's animals so you can all live vicariously through me ;)

[spots]

WOW, Great collection. As Kat said You got BALL'S!!!
I love the Horned bush viper, and the Albino Monocled Cobra.
Alessia your mom is on to something there, When the Cobra is un-hooded it does look a little like a corn snake.

[ugo]

Everyone of U was right and wise . And surely i won't argue with anyone.
Pls forgive me if i hurted and forget what i wrote : everyone has Her/His own way.

Love & passion came first, I see respect and the weight of a known risk, but not fear at all amongst the ven. keepers . and i cannot plan to have under control snakes, vivs, tongs etc, etc, i have to deal with them as with all the other snakes.

other pets : i had dogs too (Dobermann and Komondor) but never i sentenced them to a life of castity. And this more true with so delicate , and now rare, venomous species: how could U know U r keeping them well, if U don't know if U match all their requirements, and U r not only making them 'surviving'? Mating is the trigger. Ok, -sorry for the 'mental challenge'- but,please try to turn Urself into castity for an year, and let me know if it is 'normal'.

the Friend's pics i m trying to add here aren't showing a 'bullish' way, only an ordinary confidence evryone has to have (U need that in the ordinary daily work and it could be mandatory in an emergence accadiment).
I apologize again with everyone felt offended from my thoughts.
cheers,
ugo
ps, hope the last 1 will transmitt U the joy of the success in breeding a so particular Species (Parias flavimaculatus)

[ZARADOZIA]

Ugo dear,
I do not think you offended (hurt) any one. Most of the time we share our ideas and thoughts and that is what every one was doing, sharing their ideas and thoughts.

It is ok if the ideas and thoughts are different, we are all different.

I love the pics, they are impressive!

[ugo]

Thanks, Zaradozia.
i appreciate so much
- Ur kindness
- Ur beauty
- the fact U don't go 'hidden' behind any 'avatar'

all my best
ugo

[candyraver69]

Thanks, Zaradozia.
i appreciate so much
- Ur kindness
- Ur beauty
- the fact U don't go 'hidden' behind any 'avatar'

all my best
ugo

This reminds me, how do I still not have an avatar? Shame on me! I will have to put a snake though. If anyone wants to see my dumb old face it's in the thread of put a face to a name :P but I'd rather show off my pretty slitheries.

[jarich]

While I agree with wanting to have the best captive care we can for our snakes Ugo, I couldnt disagree with you more regarding breeding. The instinctual drive to procreate is so strong in all animals that they will do so even in less than ideal conditions, so breeding is actually a minimum requirement for husbandry, not an indicator of the ideal husbandry. As Im sure you know, in the bare minimum environment any snake will attempt to breed and often to its detriment. And suppose you do get them to successfully breed, then what? You now have exponentially increased the number of venomous snakes you have, yet, the number of keepers responsible enough to house them has not. So either you now have a host of snakes you may or may not have room for, or you will be selling them to people you arent sure can provide those same levels of husbandry for them. If you were releasing them back into the wild environment they come from then this might be a different thing, but thats not what we are talking about here.

As to your example of whether or not we as people could remain in chastity for years, well follow that example to its natural conclusion. Could we? Yes of course, and could do so while remaining perfectly healthy the entire time. However, we, like all animals, have the instinctual drive to procreate, even though that has nothing to do with individual health. The healthiest thing for these animals is not to keep them at all, so by your logic you should release all your animals into the wild. I dont think thats going to happen though now is it? ;)

[ugo]

Jarich :

I LOVE UR HUMOUR

because it was an humorous post, isn't it?

[candyraver69]

While I agree with wanting to have the best captive care we can for our snakes Ugo, I couldnt disagree with you more regarding breeding. The instinctual drive to procreate is so strong in all animals that they will do so even in less than ideal conditions, so breeding is actually a minimum requirement for husbandry, not an indicator of the ideal husbandry. As Im sure you know, in the bare minimum environment any snake will attempt to breed and often to its detriment. And suppose you do get them to successfully breed, then what? You now have exponentially increased the number of venomous snakes you have, yet, the number of keepers responsible enough to house them has not. So either you now have a host of snakes you may or may not have room for, or you will be selling them to people you arent sure can provide those same levels of husbandry for them. If you were releasing them back into the wild environment they come from then this might be a different thing, but thats not what we are talking about here.

As to your example of whether or not we as people could remain in chastity for years, well follow that example to its natural conclusion. Could we? Yes of course, and could do so while remaining perfectly healthy the entire time. However, we, like all animals, have the instinctual drive to procreate, even though that has nothing to do with individual health. The healthiest thing for these animals is not to keep them at all, so by your logic you should release all your animals into the wild. I dont think thats going to happen though now is it? ;)

Oh boy what a can of worms. I agree that most animals will breed in sub-optimal conditions. Regarding the need to breed to be healthy... I have no clue about reptiles, but regarding humans I bet you could get many people disagreeing with you there. Take away the fact we can use birth control to satisfy our needs without actually procreating of coarse, because actually giving birth is not essential nor beneficial to our health. Anyways... way way way off topic, so I think that if we want to debate the need to procreate to be healthy it needs to go somewhere other than this thread about HOTS. I am certain there is extensive research done on this subject among many different species, but this is not the thread for that.

[Freebody]

Thanks guys!

Ugo, you have a valid point, but I could counter your point with why keep a dog if you're not going to breed it? Why keep a cat, or any animal for that matter? I love my animals and respect them and am in constant awe of their grace, agility, and majesty. They bring joy into my life- what other reason is better to keep them?
I agree that too many people rush into keeping hots purely for the "rush" or the bragging rights to boast to their friends about what they own. I do not keep hots BECAUSE they challenge me, nor do I keep them BECAUSE they are dangerous....I keep them because of their beauty and majesty and because they are unique, and I RESPECT them because they are dangerous and a challenge. This forum only has a few people that keep hots, and the ones who go about it wrongly and irresponsibly usually don't last long here. You won't find me, or any of the other hot-keepers on here arguing that more people should keep hots or that they are for everyone- they are not. I would never recommend them to anyone; however, if one trains diligently and gets a mentor and does one's research, it is their choice. I'm sorry you have lost people close to you via snakebite- that must be a very tough thing to go through. My condolences to you.

Thanks Freebody- I love his colors too. :) If you are thinking of ever getting into elapids, I highly recommend keeping red-tailed green rat snakes, or Spilotes and mangrove snakes first. They are not the same thing, but are fairly decent specimens for fine-tuning your hooking and tailing techniques, and for learning to anticipate quick agile movements and hook-climbing. A cobra will try to climb the hook like there's no tomorrow...it's a constant dance to keep them at the end and away from you.
thx for the tip, i highly dought i ever will tho :P with my luck.... better stick to seeing pics from the pros :)

[Will0W783]

I wouldn't call myself a "pro" per se, lol. I'm still quite new to hots, but hopefully my precautions and training keep me safe. :)

[jarich]

Jarich :

I LOVE UR HUMOUR

because it was an humorous post, isn't it?

Why thank you! I enjoy your posts as well. Yes, parts of it were meant to be humorous, for sure. A spoonful of sugar and all that ;)

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Stunning collection. I know you are enjoying their company to the fullest. I see the hex print in the gloves, Venom Defenders..? Clem and Maureen are wonderful people, they are exhibiting this product in Hamm right now. I have a pair myself.

[Jay]

Stunning collection. I know you are enjoying their company to the fullest. I see the hex print in the gloves, Venom Defenders..? Clem and Maureen are wonderful people, they are exhibiting this product in Hamm right now. I have a pair myself.
You're back... Welcome.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

You're back... Welcome.

Yes for now.. Christmas break couldn't have taken any longer to get here.

[millertime89]

lucky you, still not officially on mine. Welcome back, you should post up some updated pics of your 2 monocleds.

[Will0W783]

see the hex print in the gloves, Venom Defenders..?

Mine are actually HexArmor needlestick and puncture resistant gloves...they are the same thing as Venom Defenders, just marketed towards other professions as well. I did a lot of research before purchasing the gloves, and found out that Venom Defenders use the hex-fabric that HexArmor produces. The model of glove I have is no longer produced, because Venom Defenders now makes them. I use them as a backup safety tool...never as a primary method. I prefer to utilize good hooking and/or tailing technique, but know that I have the gloves on as an extra precaution. They are a great product!

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Mine are actually HexArmor needlestick and puncture resistant gloves...they are the same thing as Venom Defenders, just marketed towards other professions as well. I did a lot of research before purchasing the gloves, and found out that Venom Defenders use the hex-fabric that HexArmor produces. The model of glove I have is no longer produced, because Venom Defenders now makes them. I use them as a backup safety tool...never as a primary method. I prefer to utilize good hooking and/or tailing technique, but know that I have the gloves on as an extra precaution. They are a great product!


I have seen gloves that are puncture resistant before, for biohazard disposal. (needles and what not) Never knew the fabric came from another company.. good information. I have at time used venom defenders as a source of restraining certain old world tree vipers, they tend to respond better to the gloves then a hook. Some times i use them to remove them from their soaking tubs. I, like you said dont recommend them as a primary source to handle a venomous snake but there are some exceptions (IMO)... Ive never even had a snake bite at the gloves. The dexterity in venom defenders is amazing, you can write fluently in pen with them on.

[unknownclown]

Wow beautiful babies you have there thanks for sharing

[Will0W783]

The dexterity in venom defenders is amazing, you can write fluently in pen with them on.

I don't really have good dexterity with mine, but that's probably got to do with the fact that they are slightly large on me. The medium size would not fit my fiance at all, and the large are just slightly large on me, so we bought the large. My A. ceratophora sure tries to bite them, but I dont' let her get near enough...she has bitten her own arse in full-on rage mode, so I stay far out of range of her pointy little face. The others are good with the gloves and don't seem to register them as things to bite, perhaps because the gloves block the heat signature of my hands?