ASF's (African Soft Fur)

[spots]

So I'm getting closer to not having to buy food for my BP now :) I started breeding ASF's and she has just had her first litter (8). I chose ASF's as the are what BP's naturally eat in the wild.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9140.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9138.jpg

[KORBIN5895]

You must be stoked!

[snake man12]

Cool what size is your bp eating. They look just like mouse pinks

[spots]

My BP eats adult mice (30-34 gram). the adult ASF's I have are young adult and weight 72 grams. The pinkies they have are the size of mice pinkies maybe a little larger.

KORBIN,
yes I'm super happy. I'm getting sick of going to the pet shops to find out they only have 14-18 gram mice. And here in Calgary there's only 2 shops that sell live. ( I don't feed live, I feed fresh killed.)

[youngster]

Cool what size is your bp eating. They look just like mouse pinks

They are rats so yeah they tend to look like mice :)

[KORBIN5895]

Cool what size is your bp eating. They look just like mouse pinks

^^^yeah but they taste like chicken.

[snake man12]

They look like marsupials

[alessia55]

Looks like a cute little gerbil/kangaroo thing. Are they expensive?

[stephanbakir]

So I'm getting closer to not having to buy food for my BP now :) I started breeding ASF's and she has just had her first litter (8). I chose ASF's as the are what BP's naturally eat in the wild.



Please, please don't stir up that bee hive accidentally.
They do NOT even come from Africa, they come from so far away, they could have never met in the wild.

[millertime89]

SE Asia yo.
Why are the called African anyways? can't find any info.

[stephanbakir]

SE Asia yo.
Why are the called African anyways? can't find any info.
Exactly, they confuse the hell out of people with this.

[spots]

Please, please don't stir up that bee hive accidentally.
They do NOT even come from Africa, they come from so far away, they could have never met in the wild.

Good to know, Thanks :D
So what are they really called, and where do they really come from?

[millertime89]

scientific name: Millardia meltada
location: Bangladesh, India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

[spots]

scientific name: Millardia meltada
location: Bangladesh, India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

Thanks
Now to get the true information on them :)

[stephanbakir]

No worries. Rats are fantastic for them for their whole lives, I believe ASF's stay too small for an adult bp, not 100% on that tho.

[Edmond Y]

No worries. Rats are fantastic for them for their whole lives, I believe ASF's stay too small for an adult bp, not 100% on that tho.

Not really, a adult asf infact is not small, they can almost double their size after breed. All my balls eat an adult asf once every ten days and they grow really well.

Edmond

[spots]

here they are at 9 days old :)

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9171.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9169.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9173.jpg

[KORBIN5895]

Nice! My three pregnant mice have all given birth so I have 22 ish pinks

[stephanbakir]

Grats, I just gota keep my rat bins going, getting a pair of water monitors in pretty soon.
Sucks that I'm not getting bedding till this next weekend, tearing up paper for em suckssss

[alessia55]

Those. babies. are. ADORABLE. :eek: Please post more pics as they grow even if they'll become food. They're cute in the meantime :yes:

[spots]

Nice! My three pregnant mice have all given birth so I have 22 ish pinks

Grats, It's nice when you no longer have to buy food for your friends :)

Grats, I just gota keep my rat bins going, getting a pair of water monitors in pretty soon.
Sucks that I'm not getting bedding till this next weekend, tearing up paper for em suckssss

Why do you need to wait to get bedding? Tearing up paper would be a pain in the a$$. Can't wait to see your Water Monitors. How big do they get? You got me interested now :D

Those. babies. are. ADORABLE. :eek: Please post more pics as they grow even if they'll become food. They're cute in the meantime :yes:

I will post some more when their eyes open. not all 8 will be food. I will use a few female to breed, and now my daughter wants one as a pet :wacky: LOL

Looks like a cute little gerbil/kangaroo thing. Are they expensive?

Sorry I missed this in the beginning. There not cheep if you need many of them. They are $5 per adult:( this is why I started breeding them.

[stephanbakir]

Why do you need to wait to get bedding? Tearing up paper would be a pain in the a$$. Can't wait to see your Water Monitors. How big do they get? You got me interested now :D


I'm getting a pair, unsexed (its tricky to get sexed monitors) they should be under 2 feet each. Mature females are 4-5 feet an males can be well over 6-7.

I already paid for my bedding, 4.50 per 8feet sq, just waiting for the farmer to haul it down here lol.

[spots]

I'm getting a pair, unsexed (its tricky to get sexed monitors) they should be under 2 feet each. Mature females are 4-5 feet an males can be well over 6-7.

:shocked: A little bigger then what i want at the moment lol. I was thinking around the 2-3' mark fully grown

[jarich]

I'm getting a pair, unsexed (its tricky to get sexed monitors) they should be under 2 feet each. Mature females are 4-5 feet an males can be well over 6-7.

I already paid for my bedding, 4.50 per 8feet sq, just waiting for the farmer to haul it down here lol.

Arent you moving soon Stephan? Did the Oklahoma thing fall through?!

[stephanbakir]

I'm still moving to Oklahoma, why do you ask? I need to pay for CITES for my animals anyway, and by August these guys will still be small enough to include in my shipment of reptiles that are coming with me, so other then box fees, I'm not paying anything additional by getting them now. My friend in the states will have enclosures waiting for me.

[jarich]

I see. I was hoping nothing had happened with your plans, thats all. I figured more animals meant you were staying put.

Wow, awesome to think of having a pair of those guys!

[stephanbakir]

Its a hell of a choice though, they are pretty costly to feed. Even as babies.

[jarich]

Ya, for sure, but they are such amazing animals. Worth every penny in my opinion

[Lankyrob]

What specific monitors are you getting Stephn?? My one and only hands on experience with a large lizard was a Yellow Belly Water Monitor called dino who was dog tame and so so so cute!!!

[stephanbakir]

Asian water monitor, I missed a deal on a sulfur water monitor that a girl was practically giving away.

[candyraver69]

scientific name: Millardia meltada
location: Bangladesh, India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

Not to derail the thread, but are you sure about this? Natal Multimammate Mouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natal_Multimammate_Mouse)

Any information I can find on Millardia meltada it is the "soft-furred rat" not "African soft-furred rat." An article about Millardia meltada with a picture: http://la.rsmjournals.com/content/12/2/73.full.pdf

The Millardia look different than the African soft-furred rats I have. I'm pretty sure mine are Mastomys natalensis, which very well could be one natural food source of Python regius.

I'm no scientist, either one of us could have misinformation, but it might be worth considering.

[candyraver69]

So I'm getting closer to not having to buy food for my BP now :) I started breeding ASF's and she has just had her first litter (8). I chose ASF's as the are what BP's naturally eat in the wild.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9140.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9138.jpg

That's awesome :) I'd like to see more people breeding these. They are awesome I think. Let me know if you need any tips. I've been breeding them for a while now and they are a bit different than rats or mice.

First and foremost I'd certainly keep at least 2 adult females per group and not remove males and cycle like some people do with mice and rats, and also make sure and give them a wheel. They are way more high strung than your average rodent. The wheel will pay for itself many times over in how much less food is wasted and better litter sizes because they are happier. They go nuts if they aren't entertained and chew their food to sawdust.

If you are keeping them in a rack, standard wheels won't fit, but you can get those alien saucer ones on drsfostersmith.com.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/298235_237823132936790_182142591838178_771711_2073 339173_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/303175_237823106270126_182142591838178_771710_3278 00049_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/293333_237823056270131_182142591838178_771708_1909 159005_n.jpg

And yes, mine are actually tame! It took very careful selective breeding and culling, and several generations. LOL. The original ones I got from a feeder breeder were the meanest demon things I have ever had.

[KORBIN5895]

So what is easier too breed? Normal rats or asf

[candyraver69]

It really depends what you are breeding for. In terms of breeding for BP food I would pick ASF's hands down. Less smell, never get too big, you don't have to pull males out or worry about over breeding the females, females nurse eachother's babies without fighting and actually prefer a colony setting, they take less space. I don't have near the amount of stupid problems I have breeding mice (even though that wasn't part of the question) like infertility at young ages, high cannibalism rates, reabsorbing litters, etc.

I think the only cons to ASF's is that it's harder to introduce some if you are pairing unrelated individuals, they take longer to sexually mature, they take longer to grow to an equivillant size because they are smaller, and they are typically viscous.

[millertime89]

Not to derail the thread, but are you sure about this? Natal Multimammate Mouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natal_Multimammate_Mouse)

Any information I can find on Millardia meltada it is the "soft-furred rat" not "African soft-furred rat." An article about Millardia meltada with a picture: http://la.rsmjournals.com/content/12/2/73.full.pdf

The Millardia look different than the African soft-furred rats I have. I'm pretty sure mine are Mastomys natalensis, which very well could be one natural food source of Python regius.

I'm no scientist, either one of us could have misinformation, but it might be worth considering.

Ah my bad, I couldn't find scientific names for African Soft Furs last time, but upon further searching you're right. It would seem that mastomys natalensis and python regius do indeed have some overlapping habitats, so I'm not sure.

[spots]

Thank you Candyraver.
I was also going to mention that the ASF's I have look different then the one's millertime set a link for. (I don't like arguing if I don't have proof)

I will have more then 1 female to male ratio, but living here in Calgary it's hare to find them, let alone live feeders. So I'll be waiting for the new born's to grow so that I'll have more females. I have them in a 30 gal tank so would I be able to have like a 1.4 set in there? Do I also have to worry about inbreeding?

So that's why their food disappears so fast? LOL they need a wheel to keep active, THANKS. yes their smell is so much better then rats, or mice.

I will keep in touch with you for your knowledge about ASF's Candyraver

Thanks

[candyraver69]

They do eat a bit more than you would expect for a small critter but having a wheel should cut down on the waste a TON. A 30 gallon should be ample for a 1.4 as long as you clean it often enough. It will be great fun to see 4-5 of them try to run on a wheel at one time... they are like little gymnasts. I have seen mine run 2-3 inside the wheel and one on the outside on top all at the same time before successfully! LOL

Inbreeding you don't have to worry too much about unless you have some nasty stuff lingering in the background recessive wise, and you won't know if you do until something stupid pops up. Really just use good judgement of which babies to cull for food and which to hold back to breed and you should be fine (Don't breed runts, ones with deformities, any health issue, use the healthier siblings to breed). Specific things I have heard ASF's are prone to are weird little lumps on their tails that develop around 6-8 months old, and tumors near their tails. I have not experienced anything like this yet *knock on wood* but here is a thread link with some pictures so you can see what it looks like and know what to watch out for: The Rat Shack • View topic - Mini my Natal has serious Issue...tail lumps/spine? (http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26258)

And... if your tank is somewhere you can hear them you might end up considering a food hopper. I just remembered the joys of when mine discovered they could drag their food blocks into the wheel and make it spin around. It sounds like rocks in a dryer :S Never a dull moment with these guys.

[spots]

So here they are at 3 weeks old. Their eye's just opened 2 days ago. Momma is pregnant again. She has that great pear shape ;)

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9264.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9265.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9266.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/Feeders/IMG_9269.jpg

[CK SandBoas]

They are so adorable!!! :D

[alessia55]

SO cute. SOOOO cute :D

[millertime89]

awe... so cute, wish my apartment complex allowed rodent pets.

[candyraver69]

Darling! I wish I could find some with less white, everyone here has mostly white ones. I love the little markings one yours' faces :)

[spots]

Darling! I wish I could find some with less white, everyone here has mostly white ones. I love the little markings one yours' faces :)

I have 3 all brown in this litter. We can do a trade some browns for some tabbies ? lol

[candyraver69]

LOL if only they weren't so expensive to import and ship :P