Newsletter From USARK Received Today

[marvelfreak]

Got this from a friend on another site and thought you would all like to read it.




« on: November 18, 2011, 05:13:04 PM »



Quote (http://www.darksidereptiles.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=57133;topic=6385.0;las t_msg=57145)


Dangerous Animal Legislation; Ohio, SC, VA, PA, MO, OK & WI.
Occupational Hazard and Public Safety

There are two types of risk associated with livestock management - 1) Occupational risk and 2) public safety. These are completely separate issues. In the case of the Reptile Industry, occupational risk is the risk posed to those individuals who work with and around reptiles (not the innocent public). Public safety risk is that posed to the general public outside of the reptile keeper’s facility.

Unusually large specimens of the five largest snake species, venomous snakes and crocodilians do present a moderate occupational risk to their keepers. However, by any objective measure, the risk is no greater than that associated with other traditional livestock or pets. In recent years the Animal Rights (AR) Industry has waged an aggressive and sensational campaign to paint this occupational risk as an eminent threat to public safety. This is a false claim, confusing occupational hazard and public safety.

The AR Industry has lobbied in a number of States to pass legislation that would designate many reptiles as "Dangerous", seeking to ban private ownership. The reality is that there are many other types of livestock and pets that have been demonstrated, statistically and historically, to be much more dangerous to both keepers and to the public than any reptiles. However, no proposal has been made to label other animals, including dogs, horses, and other livestock, with the designation of "Dangerous", even though annually they each injure and kill far more people than do any reptile species.

This is an example of the prejudice felt by segments of the public against reptiles. Some people are frightened of reptiles. There is no doubt that reptiles, particularly snakes, carry the baggage of cultural bias, irrational fear and misunderstanding. This is in spite of the fact that only about one person a year is killed in this country by a captive reptile as an occupational hazard, compared to, say, the average 35 people a year that are killed by dogs. No members of the general public have been killed by reptiles, but there have been numerous cases involving dogs.

USARK rejects the designation of "Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

Studies done by the US Fish & Wildlife Service and US Geological Survey, suggest the rare fatality due to a captive reptile are occupational risk; and a NOT public safety risk. There is a moderate occupation risk taken when working with certain reptiles. Skill and care is required to handle them safely. It is an extremely rare event for a fatality to result. It is almost always the keeper or his employees or, more rarely, a third party within the keepers facility. However, there has never been any measurable risk to the general public. Best Management Practices further mitigate public risk by implementing standards and putting additional safeguards in place.


USARK OPPOSES- Legislation designating any reptiles as Dangerous; or the banning of private ownership and trade in any reptiles based on unsubstantiated and false claims of public safety risk.

[stephanbakir]

Looks great, but they should fix one part of it.


Studies done by the US Fish & Wildlife Service and US Geological Survey, suggest the rare fatality due to a captive reptile are occupational risk; and a NOT public safety risk.

[shaunyboy]

the animal rights peoples over here are against reptile keeping of any kind

they are a bunch of devious self serving nasty a**holes

one of their many agendas is to ban all private reptile keeping

i cannot stand the double standards of these people

cheers shaun

[stephanbakir]

I love how you ended that rant with a "Cheers Shaun" ROFL I almost fell down laughing lol.

[shaunyboy]

I love how you ended that rant with a "Cheers Shaun" ROFL I almost fell down laughing lol.

glad i got you laughing stephan

as i've said before i'd miss our banter,if anything ate you on one of your many adventures mate

cheers shaun

[jarich]

glad i got you laughing stephan

as i've said before i'd miss our banter,if anything ate you on one of your many adventures mate

cheers shaun

Ha! He definitely breeds the right ones for that

[stephanbakir]

Other then my satanic male who refuses to grow, all my animals are angels :)

[Aaron_S]

I like that letter and agree with some of what they're doing.

I know stephen you'll hate me for this but I do believe venomous snakes and the largest species should be banned from private keeping. So few good keepers out there and so many snakes that are just poised to hurt someone, especially in the case of venomous snakes.

The reason I lump large boids in with venomous here is because I don't see a reason why they need to be kept privately. Most people don't house them properly and the ones who don't release them. Even if they are good keepers and eventually good breeders where do the babies end up? Sure you can charge a larger dollar value for each snake and that will certainly help but these pythons average easily 20 - 30 babies per female. That's a whole lot of snakes to find GOOD homes for, year in and year out. Reality is that isn't possible.

No offense to you Stephen and none of this was directed at you personally. :)

[stephanbakir]

I like that letter and agree with some of what they're doing.

I know stephen you'll hate me for this but I do believe venomous snakes and the largest species should be banned from private keeping. So few good keepers out there and so many snakes that are just poised to hurt someone, especially in the case of venomous snakes.

The reason I lump large boids in with venomous here is because I don't see a reason why they need to be kept privately. Most people don't house them properly and the ones who don't release them. Even if they are good keepers and eventually good breeders where do the babies end up? Sure you can charge a larger dollar value for each snake and that will certainly help but these pythons average easily 20 - 30 babies per female. That's a whole lot of snakes to find GOOD homes for, year in and year out. Reality is that isn't possible.

No offense to you Stephen and none of this was directed at you personally. :)
Honestly I agree with everything you said, although I wouldn't ban them. What I would do is restrict them, those who really want them have to get a permit that requires certain criteria be met. It sucks, because they are the species I fell in love with. Retics are by far my fav, and vipers and elapids come in a close second. While I agree that most people shouldn't own them, the "right" people should still be able to if they prove themselves somehow.

I'll never complain to a constructive comment, which states why they think the way they do.

[Gungirl]

I have to say that I agree with Aaron and Stephan in this one. Permits or a lic should be required to keep any large or venomous...

[stephanbakir]

Sure you can charge a larger dollar value for each snake and that will certainly help but these pythons average easily 20 - 30 babies per female. That's a whole lot of snakes to find GOOD homes for, year in and year out. Reality is that isn't possible.
:)
With regards to that, I agree with you.
I once sold a woman a 7500$ retic, gave her a caresheet and explained everything she would need to know. a few months later I was returned the animal in atrocious condition, it had never eaten in her care.
I asked her if she could think of a reason why, and she couldn't. I attempted to feed the animal a rat and it ripped it off the tongs instantly. I called her back and asked what she was trying to feed it, because on the caresheet it stated that it should be fed apropriately sized rats then transitioned onto rabbits or fed multiple rats. She responded with (quite proudly) "All of my pets are vegetarians"...
Its hard to know just who will make a good owner, but I'll tell you this, if I ever have a doubt I always refuse the sale.

[jarich]

Wow, that's crazy! She thought she would get her snake to be a vegetarian?! Yikes. I hope you didn't give her any refund.

I agree with you as well Aaron. I think many animals should require a permit. Even that doesn't make much difference though. They have that law here and there are still so many burms, retics etc on sale on CL everyday. Sad to think of the poor care so many of them will get. Wish the law got enforced more.

[stephanbakir]

I payed something like 500$ for the animal, got it back up to health and resold it to someone I knew was a quality keeper, its doing great now.

[Aaron_S]

I don't really believe in those systems. It's very difficult to properly implement and regulate. It's very easy to keep snakes "underground" for lack of a better term.

My biggest issue with this all, and it may stem from being a parent, is that you may choose to put yourself in this dangerous position but no one else around you did. Your kids didn't, your neighbours didn't. It's more so an issue with venomous snakes as if EVER one gets out and kills someone it means that our hobby is more valuable than a human life? We put our enjoyment ahead of someone's innocent life? All for what? A 'cool" snake, the "rush" of dealing with death on a regular basis?

That little girl who died by a burm sure didn't choose to be in that situation.

[stephanbakir]

I don't really believe in those systems. It's very difficult to properly implement and regulate. It's very easy to keep snakes "underground" for lack of a better term.

My biggest issue with this all, and it may stem from being a parent, is that you may choose to put yourself in this dangerous position but no one else around you did. Your kids didn't, your neighbours didn't. It's more so an issue with venomous snakes as if EVER one gets out and kills someone it means that our hobby is more valuable than a human life? We put our enjoyment ahead of someone's innocent life? All for what? A 'cool" snake, the "rush" of dealing with death on a regular basis?

That little girl who died by a burm sure didn't choose to be in that situation.
I agree, they didn't put themselves there so the potential risk is a pain, but proper husbandry will help keep the number of potential victims down.
The little girl that died is a sad story, but her parents were idiots for 1, keeping her in the same room and 2, keeping it in a glass terrarium with a piece of wood as a lid...

I get no "rush" from owning my retics, I love them, and how they act. Don't take this as an attack, because I do like BPs. If you stick a ball python in the middle of a room and walk around it 10+ feet away what is it going to do, sit there and ignore you. Same situation with a retic, its going to sit there and watch you without moving its head, its eyes will follow you wherever you go including behind it.

They are spectacular animals and if appreciated for the right reasons, and treated right will make awesome additions to THE RIGHT PERSON's collection.

[millertime89]

I don't really believe in those systems. It's very difficult to properly implement and regulate. It's very easy to keep snakes "underground" for lack of a better term.

My biggest issue with this all, and it may stem from being a parent, is that you may choose to put yourself in this dangerous position but no one else around you did. Your kids didn't, your neighbours didn't. It's more so an issue with venomous snakes as if EVER one gets out and kills someone it means that our hobby is more valuable than a human life? We put our enjoyment ahead of someone's innocent life? All for what? A 'cool" snake, the "rush" of dealing with death on a regular basis?

That little girl who died by a burm sure didn't choose to be in that situation.

regards to keeping them "underground": although I understand what you're getting at, people will ALWAYS find a way to get what they want. Be it large or venomous snakes or illegal drugs. A ban is not the right way to go about these types of things. Legalization and regulation of them is (drugs with regards to pot and other "harmless" [define it as you will, I'm not going to argue it, just using it as an example] recreational drugs). Many responsible keepers will comply with the rules, the government will make a little money, employ another person of two, and will allow those of us that wish, to keep the snakes that fascinate us.
The city of Des Moines, IA requires people keeping snakes over 6ft in length within the city limits to take a class before they can legally keep them, just an example. (Although IA has banned retics, but not burms or A.Rocks for whaterver reason...)
If they require a license, why can't they hire a person or two to do yearly, or every other year compliance checks. If you've ever looked at the price of enclosures for large snakes, they're not cheap, nobody is gonna put the large snakes in enclosures once a year just to pass a check, they'll keep them in there permanently since its such a large investment.

[Aaron_S]

This is good debate but it'll end with agreeing to disagree at some point.


People don't buy large snake enclosures. They would make them, for next to nothing. Just as Stephen said, a glass tank with a wood lid on it was all they had for a burm.

A lot of places have tried regulation but I still stand by we should attempt a ban and see how it works. If it fails then so be it. I just know there's plenty of other large snake species for people to work with. I do understand what a retic does and can do how it seemingly has a higher intelligence. I've worked with them, and they are amazing but I don't believe they belong in someone's basement.

[jarich]

I agree with Aaron again. The reality of the government regulation is that it just doesnt work. The government just wont spend the money to properly regulate it as its a minor issue in the scheme of things. I think it should be something like buying a gun. It should be difficult, expensive, and not something people can do on impulse. Thats fantastic that there is a course required in Des Moines; what a great idea!

I think it may eventually have to be something that is self regulated or we all risk losing it entirely. I wonder what the possibility would be of having a non profit organization that was in place for finding those who illegally keep them and confiscating the animals. It would be something that could possibly be paid for by breeders in exchange for them being allowed to breed these animals. (As a side note, I believe there are too many people breeding reptiles, again this should be a regulated activity)

[Gungirl]

(As a side note, I believe there are too many people breeding reptiles, again this should be a regulated activity)

I agree 100%

[stephanbakir]

(As a side note, I believe there are too many people breeding reptiles, again this should be a regulated activity)
The REALLY sad thing is, there are SO MANY wc imported normals coming in, even with so many breeders hatching them out that most normal hatchlings being hatched today end up being freezer pets or king cobra food... really sucks :(
That and WC animals are testy, for good reason. No wonder people get pissed and keep freaking that retics are dangerous... you get some dumbass who refused to pay an extra 15$ for a CBB f7+ animal for whatever reason and his snake nabbed him because it learned from a baby to defend itself.
INVEST IN GOOD BREEDERS

[jarich]

Ya, and again, maybe there is the cure. Make it illegal to import without a zoo license/breeder permit, period. Any bred animals would have to be microchipped to keep breeders from importing more than they need. Just a thought.

[millertime89]

Ya, and again, maybe there is the cure. Make it illegal to import without a zoo license/breeder permit, period. Any bred animals would have to be microchipped to keep breeders from importing more than they need. Just a thought.

I would support this 100%. While at Travis's place (retic breeder) he had 2 wild caught superdwarfs, they were VERY testy and he showed them to me and they immediately went strike pose, couldn't get within a few feet once that enclosure was open without getting a strike. There needs to be a fee associated with the import license as well so your average Joe Blow can't just go get one.

[stephanbakir]

I would support this 100%. While at Travis's place (retic breeder) he had 2 wild caught superdwarfs, they were VERY testy and he showed them to me and they immediately went strike pose, couldn't get within a few feet once that enclosure was open without getting a strike. There needs to be a fee associated with the import license as well so your average Joe Blow can't just go get one.
Gota disagree, some of those average joe blow idiots are rich joe bloe idiots.

[millertime89]

what is it with rich people being stupid?

[jarich]

Ha! I'm afraid stupidity knows no bounds. It's EVERYWHERE

[stephanbakir]

Not all rich people, but some.... like that lady who bought the retic off me... wtf vegetarian snakes...

[millertime89]

Gota disagree, some of those average joe blow idiots are rich joe bloe idiots.

I was thinking about this discussion this morning. I think the goal of having a fee associated with keeping wild caught animals is not to prevent people from buying them, but simply make it more financially sensible to purchase a CBB animal than a WC one. For the ease of my argument, I'm going to use your number of 15 dollars more for a CBB animal versus a WC one. Make the license or whatever it is 1-200 dollars so your average person decides its not worth it to spend that kind of money for just one WC animal. But breeders who will purchase multiple WC animals for a variety of reasons will still do it. Average Joe will spend the extra 15 dollars for a nice CBB animal rather than an extra hundred or two to get a WC one.