Is it necessary to feed a BP rats?

[ashleynicole]

I have researched and researched and I can't really find evidence that a ball python absolutely must have rats. I had mine eating a rat regularly and then a few years ago, he got bit by one. Of course I was supervising him and I took the rat away immediately and the wound healed. However that was the first time he went off food and fasted for about 5 months. Finally I started feeding him mice and he did fine. After a while we worked our way back up to small rats and eventually large rats. But he seems afraid of the large rats, even though they are the size of the fattest part of his body. He will take one and then stop eating again for a few months. If i feed him mice he will eat every week, but the mice are small of course and if I try to put in more than one he won't touch them. My corn will eat 3-4 frozen/thawed mice every week. I absolutely can not get this BP to eat frozen/thawed.

I know ball pythons are notoriously picky eaters, so any input would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[infernalis]

Get your snake on F/T food ASAP.......

Pre-killed food cannot fight back.

[Gungirl]

Just what Wayne said. F/t is the way to go ..

You could feed your snake mice but it will take more food to fill your snake and mice still bite back...

Also its normal for a BP to go off food every once in a while.

[KORBIN5895]

You could also try small rabbits. But again kill anything you feed it first.

[SnakeyJay]

Rats have more lean meat and less fat than mice... it sounds harsh but offer him a pre killed or F/T rat once every 10-14 days till he feeds. Eventually his feeding instincts will kick in. It sounds like the snake is intimidated by his food. At the end of the day feeding live just isnt worth it to your snakes health. Goodluck.

[jarich]

Rats have more lean meat and less fat than mice... it sounds harsh but offer him a pre killed or F/T rat once every 10-14 days till he feeds. Eventually his feeding instincts will kick in. It sounds like the snake is intimidated by his food. At the end of the day feeding live just isnt worth it to your snakes health. Goodluck.

Sorry, as Im sure some of you are tired of me going on about this, but both of those things about rats are untrue Jay. To answer your question Ashley, no there is no nutritional reason to switch to rats. Mice are technically better food, though its not a huge difference. Check it out here:

Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)

However, I totally agree about feeding frozen or prekilled prey, especially with a skittish animal. Its sometimes a tough and arduous process. I have a GTP that Im still trying to get switched over as well. As you found out the hard way, its a risky thing feeding live. It just takes a second for a mouse to scratch or bite an eye, no matter how quick you are getting it out of the tank.

[KORBIN5895]

I don't see where she asked about the nutritional difference ........

[jarich]

I don't see where she asked about the nutritional difference ........

Totally right, she was asking if there was a reason why BPs had to be fed rats. And the answer is no, unless there is a convenience aspect to it. I merely put the nutritional stuff in to respond to Jay's comment.

[alessia55]

I don't see where she asked about the nutritional difference ........

She didn't but it's still good information to know :)

[citysnakes]

Ashley, it is not necessary to feed your ball python rats but generally mouse eaters require more than one mouse per feeding and this is one of the main reasons why keepers recommend rats over mice. Ball pythons that eat mice are just as healthy as the ones that eat rats.

In your situation, if you are worried about the large rats harming your snake, dont feed your ball python anything larger than a small or 100-ish gram rat and it should be fine. In most cases large rats are unnecessary as feeders for ball pythons.

Its not wrong to feed live but as was mentioned above, it may be a good idea to attempt to convert your guy over to f/t rats.




I don't see where she asked about the nutritional difference ........

How can you really have an opinion on the topic without being somewhat aware of each feeder's nutritional value?

[KORBIN5895]

.






How can you really have an opinion on the topic without being somewhat aware of each feeder's nutritional value?

Simple. I assume you have a brain yet I don't know you. My opinion of you is your obviously smart enough to read and type but that is also assumed as I don't know you. So my opinion of you being reasonably intelligent could be totally wrong. I just said she could feed it small rabbits as I know people do. I also pointed out the fact that she didn't ask for nutritional difference but those words were put in her mouth. No offense Jarich. Everyone has an opinion regardless if it is informed or out of ignorance. Some people show how ignorant they are just by opening their mouth( that may or may not be directed at me or it may or may not be directed at others) .

[shaunyboy]

when changing a snake from live to frozen,i found it eaiser to use stunned live prey

then fresh killed prey

usually they take frozen thawed a few feeds after taking fresh killed

re rats versus mice
i get my carpets onto rats from hatchlings,as it would take a lot of mice to feed an adult carpet

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Ashley, it is not necessary to feed your ball python rats but generally mouse eaters require more than one mouse per feeding and this is one of the main reasons why keepers recommend rats over mice. Ball pythons that eat mice are just as healthy as the ones that eat rats.

In your situation, if you are worried about the large rats harming your snake, dont feed your ball python anything larger than a small or 100-ish gram rat and it should be fine. In most cases large rats are unnecessary as feeders for ball pythons.

Its not wrong to feed live but as was mentioned above, it may be a good idea to attempt to convert your guy over to f/t rats.

How can you really have an opinion on the topic without being somewhat aware of each feeder's nutritional value?

^^^^^
ashley the above imo is the correct answer to your dilema

heres the chart i use when working out nutrition.its always handy to know their values,when considering which type of prey item would best suit your snakes needs

Rodent Pro's Nutrient Composition (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)

i know no question was asked re nutritional values of rats and mice,but imo it don't do no harm knowing them

cheers shaun

[mattchibi]

Mice are perfectly fine meals for snakes. This is true. However almost 99% of breeders will agree that rats are a more economical meal as well as easier in general, not to mention snakes can thrive on either mice or rats (it truely doesnt matter that much as long as they are feeding regularly). Think of it this way: if you have one adult snake, you wouldnt mind feeding it 2-3 mice every feeding, if thats all it is willing to eat. But if you have thirty adult snakes, feeding every snake 2-3 mice would be an extremely dull and long process.

That is the upside of switching to rats.

Nutrition information aside.. both are healthy food items in my opinion. Just wanted to share why I will prefer to feed rats. Thats my .02 Like I said, if you have just the one BP, as long as its feeding on something that is 10-15 % of body weight, you are golden.

In terms of if you wanted to make the switch from live to f/t, I would first get a digital food scale to measure the prey's weight as well as your snake's (to see if there is any significant weight loss) Feed your snake 3-4 weekly feedings of live first (closely supervise of course). Then after that, try to feed it f/t a few times. If it keeps refusing f/t, after once or twice you may want to try different methods such as scenting or braining. If you notice any significant weight loss, go back to ground zero, feed a couple live for a few feedings, and then try again with f/t. Some people have success with the "feed it f/t until it eats, it will get hungry" technique, but again, you need to watch for weight loss. Ive heard of some snakes making the live to f/t transition really smoothly (first try) and some that take up to a year. So patience :)

[ashleynicole]

Thanks for the info everyone. Yes I was also curious about the nutritional aspect, actually that was my main concern. I assumed it was implied since I was asking if it was necessary to feed rats, the main concern obviously is nutrition.


As far as frozen/thawed. My corns have always eaten f/t no problem. For years ive tried to get thos ball to eat prekilled but he just won't. I've tried stunning, fresh killed, I've tried holding them with tongs and moving them a bit. I've had this snake for 6 years and he once went 6 months without eating anything. O actually think he might be female, I've never had him sexed. We are actually going to take our unsexed snakes to a herp farm Friday to sex them.

The only way he eats is in complete darkeness in a quiet room... Weird but it works. I will try some of these techniques again and see what happens.

[SnakeyJay]

Thanks for the info everyone. Yes I was also curious about the nutritional aspect, actually that was my main concern. I assumed it was implied since I was asking if it was necessary to feed rats, the main concern obviously is nutrition.


As far as frozen/thawed. My corns have always eaten f/t no problem. For years ive tried to get thos ball to eat prekilled but he just won't. I've tried stunning, fresh killed, I've tried holding them with tongs and moving them a bit. I've had this snake for 6 years and he once went 6 months without eating anything. O actually think he might be female, I've never had him sexed. We are actually going to take our unsexed snakes to a herp farm Friday to sex them.

The only way he eats is in complete darkeness in a quiet room... Weird but it works. I will try some of these techniques again and see what happens.

I may have been wrong that either is better than the other but i was on the right subject.

[Ch^4]

You could also try small rabbits. But again kill anything you feed it first.

See below.

Ashley, it is not necessary to feed your ball python rats but generally mouse eaters require more than one mouse per feeding and this is one of the main reasons why keepers recommend rats over mice. Ball pythons that eat mice are just as healthy as the ones that eat rats.

In your situation, if you are worried about the large rats harming your snake, dont feed your ball python anything larger than a small or 100-ish gram rat and it should be fine. In most cases large rats are unnecessary as feeders for ball pythons.

Its not wrong to feed live but as was mentioned above, it may be a good idea to attempt to convert your guy over to f/t rats.

How can you really have an opinion on the topic without being somewhat aware of each feeder's nutritional value?

x2

Simple. I assume you have a brain yet I don't know you. My opinion of you is your obviously smart enough to read and type but that is also assumed as I don't know you. So my opinion of you being reasonably intelligent could be totally wrong. I just said she could feed it small rabbits as I know people do. I also pointed out the fact that she didn't ask for nutritional difference but those words were put in her mouth. No offense Jarich. Everyone has an opinion regardless if it is informed or out of ignorance. Some people show how ignorant they are just by opening their mouth( that may or may not be directed at me or it may or may not be directed at others) .

Based on the first comment I quoted, and your quick and unnecessary condescending remarks towards Julian, I must say that you are the epitome of ignorance. Julian is a well respected member on this forum and has the knowledge and experience to back up his posts.

I really wish you made that sort of childish and uniformed comment to Mykee, because you'd be so far backed in a corner by now, that you'd wish you never joined the forum. Wayne and other members, I'm not trying to stoop to the level of this, *cough*, gentleman, but I do not appreciate what he is saying, especially the way he is saying it and to whom he is saying it to.

RABBITS for a Ball Python??? Are you kidding me? You "know people do" feed rabbits to BPs? Again sir, you are the epitome of ignorance. And the people feeding rabbits to BPs, well, there is no possible way for me to articulate my thoughts in a succinct manner. Suffice it to say, they are idiots.

Oh, and my opinion of you is that "your" (do you mean you're?--see second bold string of characters) lacking the necessary intelligence to fit in well with this forum.

Sorry for the derailing everyone; lack of sleep due to preparation of a key milestone for my Ph.D. has taken its tole on me.

Now, back to the OP's question; heed Julian's (citysnakes) words, he KNOWS what he is talking about. In my humble experience with keeping BPs, the mouse eaters tend to be the pickiest and go off-feed more often than the rat eaters. Again, this is in my experience, with my oldest mouse eater being almost 8 (I've had him since he was a hatchling).

[infernalis]

Thank you!!! This is the truth.. AND regardless of anything else, we shall respect one another at all times here.


See below.



x2



Based on the first comment I quoted, and your quick and unnecessary condescending remarks towards Julian, I must say that you are the epitome of ignorance. Julian is a well respected member on this forum and has the knowledge and experience to back up his posts.

I really wish you made that sort of childish and uniformed comment to Mykee, because you'd be so far backed in a corner by now, that you'd wish you never joined the forum. Wayne and other members, I'm not trying to stoop to the level of this, *cough*, gentleman, but I do not appreciate what he is saying, especially the way he is saying it and to whom he is saying it to.

RABBITS for a Ball Python??? Are you kidding me? You "know people do" feed rabbits to BPs? Again sir, you are the epitome of ignorance. And the people feeding rabbits to BPs, well, there is no possible way for me to articulate my thoughts in a succinct manner. Suffice it to say, they are idiots.

Oh, and my opinion of you is that "your" (do you mean you're?--see second bold string of characters) lacking the necessary intelligence to fit in well with this forum.

Sorry for the derailing everyone; lack of sleep due to preparation of a key milestone for my Ph.D. has taken its tole on me.

Now, back to the OP's question; heed Julian's (citysnakes) words, he KNOWS what he is talking about. In my humble experience with keeping BPs, the mouse eaters tend to be the pickiest and go off-feed more often than the rat eaters. Again, this is in my experience, with my oldest mouse eater being almost 8 (I've had him since he was a hatchling).

[alessia55]

See below.



x2



Based on the first comment I quoted, and your quick and unnecessary condescending remarks towards Julian, I must say that you are the epitome of ignorance. Julian is a well respected member on this forum and has the knowledge and experience to back up his posts.

I really wish you made that sort of childish and uniformed comment to Mykee, because you'd be so far backed in a corner by now, that you'd wish you never joined the forum. Wayne and other members, I'm not trying to stoop to the level of this, *cough*, gentleman, but I do not appreciate what he is saying, especially the way he is saying it and to whom he is saying it to.

RABBITS for a Ball Python??? Are you kidding me? You "know people do" feed rabbits to BPs? Again sir, you are the epitome of ignorance. And the people feeding rabbits to BPs, well, there is no possible way for me to articulate my thoughts in a succinct manner. Suffice it to say, they are idiots.

Oh, and my opinion of you is that "your" (do you mean you're?--see second bold string of characters) lacking the necessary intelligence to fit in well with this forum.

Sorry for the derailing everyone; lack of sleep due to preparation of a key milestone for my Ph.D. has taken its tole on me.

Now, back to the OP's question; heed Julian's (citysnakes) words, he KNOWS what he is talking about. In my humble experience with keeping BPs, the mouse eaters tend to be the pickiest and go off-feed more often than the rat eaters. Again, this is in my experience, with my oldest mouse eater being almost 8 (I've had him since he was a hatchling).

I agree completely. Well said.

[Gungirl]

Very well stated...

[SkYyaMe1623]

See below.



x2



Based on the first comment I quoted, and your quick and unnecessary condescending remarks towards Julian, I must say that you are the epitome of ignorance. Julian is a well respected member on this forum and has the knowledge and experience to back up his posts.

I really wish you made that sort of childish and uniformed comment to Mykee, because you'd be so far backed in a corner by now, that you'd wish you never joined the forum. Wayne and other members, I'm not trying to stoop to the level of this, *cough*, gentleman, but I do not appreciate what he is saying, especially the way he is saying it and to whom he is saying it to.

RABBITS for a Ball Python??? Are you kidding me? You "know people do" feed rabbits to BPs? Again sir, you are the epitome of ignorance. And the people feeding rabbits to BPs, well, there is no possible way for me to articulate my thoughts in a succinct manner. Suffice it to say, they are idiots.

Oh, and my opinion of you is that "your" (do you mean you're?--see second bold string of characters) lacking the necessary intelligence to fit in well with this forum.

Sorry for the derailing everyone; lack of sleep due to preparation of a key milestone for my Ph.D. has taken its tole on me.



http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/drizzy.png

[millertime89]

if the food is of an appropriate size, please explain why you shouldn't feed a BP small rabbits.

[SkYyaMe1623]

if the food is of an appropriate size, please explain why you shouldn't feed a BP small rabbits.
co-sign


if you have a large ball python and it would take a small bunny, why would it be the "epitome of ignorance" to give it one?
http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/baby.gif

[Jenn_06]

i dont know if anyone know but a small rabbit its a size of a XXXL rat and thats BIG for a Bp even a extra small is about a XL rat to XXL rat.

[SkYyaMe1623]

i dont know if anyone know but a small rabbit its a size of a XXXL rat and thats BIG for a Bp even a extra small is about a XL rat to XXL rat.
This happens to be wrong (http://www.rodentpro.com/index.asp).

A small bunny is 226-336 grams, about the size of an XL rat.

An XXXL rat is 475-600 grams.

http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/grad.gif

[Jenn_06]

This happens to be wrong (http://www.rodentpro.com/index.asp).

A small bunny is 226-336 grams, about the size of an XL rat.

An XXXL rat is 475-600 grams.

http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/grad.gif

you might get yours from a different place because where i get them a extra small rabbit is 226-336 they are about 20 to 30 days old and a small is 453- 792 and are 30 to 35 days old a XXXL is 475-600+ so they are the size of a small rabbit.


I try to feed my retic a rabbit but she will only eat XXXL rats and they was the same size of the small rabbit wish i took the pic of it side by side to show you.

[alessia55]

Hmmm... I don't know much about rabbits but, I've seen rabbits that are small enough for my adult bp to eat (really, really young rabbits). But a reason I don't feed my adult bp small rabbits is also because of the cost. At least here, the cost for a small rabbit is much higher than the cost for a large rat.

[infernalis]

I can't seem to find the picture, but I have photos of rabbit weanlings and they fill up my hand as much as an adult fancy rat.

[millertime89]

Hmmm... I don't know much about rabbits but, I've seen rabbits that are small enough for my adult bp to eat (really, really young rabbits). But a reason I don't feed my adult bp small rabbits is also because of the cost. At least here, the cost for a small rabbit is much higher than the cost for a large rat.

depends on where you get them from

I can't seem to find the picture, but I have photos of rabbit weanlings and they fill up my hand as much as an adult fancy rat.

I can imagine an infant rabbit (less than 5 days) is even smaller.

[Jenn_06]

you can feed a bp a pinky rabbit i guess, but with out the hair your just going to get runny poop from your snake:O_o:

[Ch^4]

if the food is of an appropriate size, please explain why you shouldn't feed a BP small rabbits.

I think my next order of frozen feeders will include quail, hedgehogs, and guinea pigs of the "appropriate size." :wacky:

co-sign


if you have a large ball python and it would take a small bunny, why would it be the "epitome of ignorance" to give it one?
http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/baby.gif

Not going to go into further details here. I will wait for Mykee, Julian, or Aaron to chime in here, because they do have more experience than me. I have no problem admitting I was wrong, if I am.

Essentially, this second referral to him being ignorant was mostly due to me being upset with the way he was bashing Julian with no justification. Even with justification, that type of post was unnecessary.

I could care less if you want to feed your BP a rabbit; I "know people do" feed their BPs big meals 3 times a week to pack on weight, but it doesn't mean you should.

[jarich]

Not going to go into further details here. I will wait for Mykee, Julian, or Aaron to chime in here, because they do have more experience than me. I have no problem admitting I was wrong, if I am.

Essentially, this second referral to him being ignorant was mostly due to me being upset with the way he was bashing Julian with no justification. Even with justification, that type of post was unnecessary.

I could care less if you want to feed your BP a rabbit; I "know people do" feed their BPs big meals 3 times a week to pack on weight, but it doesn't mean you should.

I think you hit the nail on the head in this last post Ch^4, and I put the section I mean in bold letters above. I agree that Korbin was a little over the top, but I also think you were as well, and as you say that is "unnecessary" even with justification.

The second bold application I put there to show how easy it is to make a mistake in these posts. When you called Korbin out on his use of "your" rather than "you're" you open yourself up to the same critique. The correct statement is "couldn't care less" as of course there would be every opportunity for you to "care less".

I suppose this thread is good though for showing us how easy it is to get snarky online, or to have things be miscommunicated. With the anonymity of the internet its so simple to come off sounding like a jerk. I think a good frame of reference would be to think, "How would I phrase it if that person was sitting here talking to me?". Generally we would all choose to be a little more understanding and less critical because society dictates such norms to keep us from punching each other in the nose!

[Ch^4]

I think you hit the nail on the head in this last post Ch^4, and I put the section I mean in bold letters above. I agree that Korbin was a little over the top, but I also think you were as well, and as you say that is "unnecessary" even with justification.

The second bold application I put there to show how easy it is to make a mistake in these posts. When you called Korbin out on his use of "your" rather than "you're" you open yourself up to the same critique. The correct statement is "couldn't care less" as of course there would be every opportunity for you to "care less".

I suppose this thread is good though for showing us how easy it is to get snarky online, or to have things be miscommunicated. With the anonymity of the internet its so simple to come off sounding like a jerk. I think a good frame of reference would be to think, "How would I phrase it if that person was sitting here talking to me?". Generally we would all choose to be a little more understanding and less critical because society dictates such norms to keep us from punching each other in the nose!

As I mentioned in my previous post, "I have no problem admitting I" am "wrong, if I am." (For the grammatical error.)

Someone that joined this community a little over 2 weeks ago (Korbin) is in the wrong when they bash senior members of this forum (Julian has been here a while). And while you are absolutely correct in stating that I was a little over the top, there is the occasional poster that needs to be put in their place, so to speak.

Anyone who has been here a year or more knows it takes a lot of "pushing" to get me to react this way.

I do also recall writing this: "Wayne and other members, I'm not trying to stoop to the level of this, *cough*, gentleman, but I do not appreciate what he is saying, especially the way he is saying it and to whom he is saying it to."

I am done with nitpicking and defending my posts. What I wrote needed to be written. Hopefully we can remain on track with this thread.

[infernalis]

As for food options, I know of a guy who lives in Northern Alaska who keeps pet snakes, He has had them all taking strips of caribou meat for years and years.

I know of another person who has trained his small colubrid snakes to take turtle pellets, and I myself managed to get a Dekayi snake to eat pinkies. (they eat worms/snails/slugs exclusively in the wild.)

Another person who I know really well gives his snakes turkey gizzards, and they all seem to like them.

I have seen photos of snakes eating road kill as well.

I'm sure that nutrition is more important than "what prey it is" that you feed them.

Most of us chose rodents because of ease, convenience and the "norm" says we should.

[Ch^4]

^^ Thanks for the info Wayne! And crazy tidbit about snakes eating caribou.

I obviously stand corrected and gladly will eat my words (only regarding prey types).

[infernalis]

^^ Thanks for the info Wayne! And crazy tidbit about snakes eating caribou.

I obviously stand corrected and gladly will eat my words (only regarding prey types).


Words have no nutritional value.:yes:

[Ch^4]

Words have no nutritional value.:yes:

Empty calories, I'm trying to get lean and mean like my snakes, but don't particularly enjoy the taste of rodents ;)

[Lankyrob]

Words have no nutritional value.:yes:

What if you write the words on a rabbit first :confused::)

[infernalis]

Empty calories, I'm trying to get lean and mean like my snakes, but don't particularly enjoy the taste of rodents ;)

don't chew, you gotta swallow them whole like snakes do.

[lady_bug87]

haha I love the internet.

we have all seen animals fall victim to their handlers snakes, cats, dogs, lizards or pet rodents, if we take on an animal it is our responsibility to do our best by them whatever the OP decides to feed her pet is up to her as long as it isn't hurting her animal all of you have provided amazing insight as always but really...

can't we all just get along like the big crazy internet family that we are?

[infernalis]

What if you write the words on a rabbit first :confused::)

As long as it said "Stew me":)

http://joshtom.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/rabbit-stew.jpg

[jaleely]

So topic heres is... rabbit bad to eat? Explain!

Rats as a sole food to eat, bad? Why, explain.

Ive read that you should get young female balls on rats ASAP if you want to breed them someday.

Other than stuffing them to grow faster ad a bebifit from mice..what else?

I'd also read wherepoeple da not feed more but bigger.something to do with the snzkednstural chemistry. The need large prey to adjust internal organs and digest properly, along with the heat.

Well:)

[KORBIN5895]

Ok so I reread the post while in a slightly better mood and realized that I was rude and ignorant. I apologize to all that I have offended. CH^4 was correct. No matter if what I said was justified or not I was wrong. Also I don't believe i was justified. I took it the wrong way and as someone has posted " I am only responsible for what I said not what you understood. " I know I hacked that quote a bit but I think you know what I mean. Oh and sorry for the typo. If ignorance is bliss I am usually. The happiest man in the world! ;)

[jaleely]

Im concentrating but cold medicine had mad this so hsrfclol

[ashleynicole]

I am only about halfway through the responses. I really would just like the responses regarding my questions, can a moderator remove any condescending remarks? I really don't like forums with a bunch of drama, I just want solid information about the questions I asked, backed up by experience, facts, and resources if applicable.


That being said, I have also heard of snakes being fed odd things like strips of meat, gizzards, chicken legs, etc. My concern with those things is the lack of organs and bone content. At least with a whole rodent I know that they are getting complete nutrition.

Also, feeding a young rabbit as opposed to an adult rat, wouldnt' the young rabbit have softer bones that havn't quit ossified and a much different nutritional content than a large rat? I knew there was a fat difference between rats and mice.

[lady_bug87]

I am only about halfway through the responses. I really would just like the responses regarding my questions, can a moderator remove any condescending remarks? I really don't like forums with a bunch of drama, I just want solid information about the questions I asked, backed up by experience, facts, and resources if applicable.

95% of the time that's what you'll get but we are human

[jarich]

Im concentrating but cold medicine had mad this so hsrfclol

Wow, I think this just became my favourite thread of all time! Thank you Ashley for coming along just when you did. I am really not trying to be mean, but the fact that Jaleely is sitting there compelled to write this while woozy from medication brought the right tone to discussion. You're totally right Ladybug, we are all a kind of crazy family! Takes a certain set of characteristics in a human to love reptiles. To love them enough to devote time to a forum, to get in arguments over them like they're our children, and even continue the goal of better care when we're so medicated we can barely type! Awesome. Honestly that's just awesome! Ha! Welcome all; we're one crazy a$& family!

[ashleynicole]

95% of the time that's what you'll get but we are human

Yes, but I am new to this forum, and some of the posts strayed waaaaaaaay off topic. Some of it I am sure is sarcasm but it is hard for me to determine what is sarcasm and what is advice that I should take to heart? I am an educated person, however, after 12 hours of work my brain can be a bit foggy. I have been on a lot of forums for many of my different hobbies, but I really don't need a bunch of sarcastic and rude remarks that I am trying to sift through to get to the meat in this thread.


Honestly we are colubrid lovers. We got the ball python years ago and gave it to my husbands little brother after we had it for a few years. Then he decided he didn't want it anymore so we took it back. My kids love the ball python because he is very easy to handle and not as active as the cornsnake and milksnake. So we are keeping him but I want to do the best I can by him which is why I asked here hoping to get some good advice.

[ashleynicole]

Yeah our family is also fighting a respiratory virus, and it is a medical fact that cold medicine (namely dextromethorphen) fogs your brain. I was just hoping a moderater could remove the condescending remarks made by one of the posters.

[lady_bug87]

I don't know sometimes families fight and sometimes people say things that are condescending and you can't delete them from everyday life. Though Wayne could probably remove them it shows just how close some of us are

We can argue and be nasty in one thread and the same people would love on each other (PG styles ok let's be honest sometimes it's PG-13) in a million other ones

The great thing of being a part of our family is we all get to come together and talk about something we all love and getting passionate is part of that love I hope this didn't scare you off and if it did and you decided to not participate I don't think you would get to see how knowledgable, supportive, and caring we are

You won't find many forums that when someone's pet is sick fellow members not only offer info and solutions but members in the vicinity will physically GO there in person to
help and the rest of us all ask for updates and pictures. Hell when someone's kid is going through something we all come together in support. We celebrate accomplishments and we all mourn tragedies together. Some of us wouldn't even know one another if we happened to walk down the street but I dare you to post that an animal is sick or that you don't know what to do about whatever and see what you get.

Sometimes just like in a family we take the good with the not so pleasant.

Ok I'm done I promise

[alessia55]

I don't know sometimes families fight and sometimes people say things that are condescending and you can't delete them from everyday life. Though Wayne could probably remove them it shows just how close some of us are

We can argue and be nasty in one thread and the same people would love on each other (PG styles ok let's be honest sometimes it's PG-13) in a million other ones

The great thing of being a part of our family is we all get to come together and talk about something we all love and getting passionate is part of that love I hope this didn't scare you off and if it did and you decided to not participate I don't think you would get to see how knowledgable, supportive, and caring we are

You won't find many forums that when someone's pet is sick fellow members not only offer info and solutions but members in the vicinity will physically GO there in person to
help and the rest of us all ask for updates and pictures. Hell when someone's kid is going through something we all come together in support. We celebrate accomplishments and we all mourn tragedies together. Some of us wouldn't even know one another if we happened to walk down the street but I dare you to post that an animal is sick or that you don't know what to do about whatever and see what you get.

Sometimes just like in a family we take the good with the not so pleasant.

Ok I'm done I promise

I'm giving you a virtual hug right now :yes:

[jaleely]

hmm Well I reread my post there..not only is that cold medicine, but it's that stupid auto type on my phone, since i posted this while in bed last night *lol*

But really, on another thread someone said I shouldn't feed my BP rabbits or other things, because then it will get a taste for that item, and not want to eat anything else. If there is enough calcium and protien, etc, in the item, I would think you could feed them anything. What else I was trying to say, was that at a show once, someone told us to get our female ball onto rats asap so that she would get the right nutrition in case we wanted to breed her someday.
The only two downsides i see to feeding your snake a different type of rodent, is that will then become it's fav meal and it won't eat anything else...which leads to cost to feed the animal.

I honestly would prefer to feed my hognosed snakes frogs, since that's their fav meal in the wild, but it's just not cost effective for me...so pinkies and mice it is!

The other thing i was trying to say, was that I'd also read where you are supposed to feed food that is large for the snake...something about it being food for it to swell the organs and make them all work better or something. I'll have to look up the source for that later. : )

Sorry for the lameness! Still waiting for the answers to my groggy questions though ;)

[infernalis]

Ok so I reread the post while in a slightly better mood and realized that I was rude and ignorant. I apologize to all that I have offended.! ;)

Thanks for accepting responsibility for your posts, My Care-o-meter just went up several clicks.:)

[KORBIN5895]

Ok Funshine. And the wink is in the wrong place. I was not winking after the apology so please don think I was and get pissed all over again.

[Ch^4]

Thanks for accepting responsibility for your posts, My Care-o-meter just went up several clicks.:)

x2

Korbin and I also had a pleasant PM conversation, so we should be drama free!

To the OP, I sincerely apologize for the added drama; most that have been here a while know that I was acting out of character (not an excuse for derailing the thread). But we are one big dysfunctional community that share a common interest; a passion for reptiles. Let's try to keep it that way! :)

I stand behind my previous remarks in that it is not absolutely necessary to feed a BP rats, it is generally more convenient--in terms of time and money. And like I stated before, my pickiest feeders are mousers. Some have great success with feeding mice, but that hasn't been my *personal* experience in the last 16+ years of keeping snakes.

[shaunyboy]

Ok so I reread the post while in a slightly better mood and realized that I was rude and ignorant. I apologize to all that I have offended. CH^4 was correct. No matter if what I said was justified or not I was wrong. Also I don't believe i was justified. I took it the wrong way and as someone has posted " I am only responsible for what I said not what you understood. " I know I hacked that quote a bit but I think you know what I mean. Oh and sorry for the typo. If ignorance is bliss I am usually. The happiest man in the world! ;)

good on you mate,for being man enough to admit you were having a bad and apologise


we all have bad days and say things we don't mean.what seperates the decent folk from the bad,is the ability to come back on here and man up and apologise

kudo's to you mate

re citysnakes (definately NOT being cheeky or having a go at you)

julien is a very knowledgeble, helpfull,decent,respectfull polite guy.

his speciality is ball pythons and he's a mine of information on them

mykee knows his stuff as well

all the best shaun

[KORBIN5895]

What really made me feel terrible is I just started reading the thread because I forgot I had posted anything. I got to my reply and thought wow I am an idiot. I got to page 2 and started to feel sick. Unfortunately when I am tired I have no mental filters and I tend to only use my angry eyes. I get myself in alot of trouble.

[alessia55]

All is forgiven here. Lets get back to talking about why feeding rats vs mice to ball pythons is or isn't necessary! :)

Personally I want to feed my ball pythons RATS because they're cheaper in the long haul. It's also more convenient to feed 1 rat and have it over with, versus sitting there and watch my bp eat 3 mice in a sitting.

[infernalis]

I like rats myself because they are easier to breed and don't stink as much as mice.

[ashleynicole]

I am going to try again with prekilled. Maybe I will try f/t mice, I've never been able to get him to take anything he hasn't killed himself. But I will def try again!

As far as helping people that is why we are all here right? I rescued a squirrel and there were some local members on the squirrel board who offered to help with meds and formula so it is always nice to find a good board with helpful people with similar interstate. I love snakes but I also like lots of other animals as well.

[infernalis]

I am going to try again with prekilled. Maybe I will try f/t mice, I've never been able to get him to take anything he hasn't killed himself. But I will def try again!

As far as helping people that is why we are all here right? I rescued a squirrel and there were some local members on the squirrel board who offered to help with meds and formula so it is always nice to find a good board with helpful people with similar interstate. I love snakes but I also like lots of other animals as well.


You are going to fit in perfectly... welcome to the family.

[lady_bug87]

^^ I second that very much :)

[ashleynicole]

Thanks, although I have owned snakes for several years now, I still have much to learn and I will help out where I can!

[ashleynicole]

Kaa ate his first f/t mouse today! I am thawing a second one just to see if he will take another, since one mouse is definitely not enough for him, but it is better than nothing. Next week I will try a small f/t rat. He has never eaten ANYTHING that he hasn't killed so I am very excited about this.

[Lankyrob]

Fair play for the switch - now jsut to get him up to rats and you are set!! :)

[infernalis]

Kaa ate his first f/t mouse today! I am thawing a second one just to see if he will take another, since one mouse is definitely not enough for him, but it is better than nothing. Next week I will try a small f/t rat. He has never eaten ANYTHING that he hasn't killed so I am very excited about this.

That is AWESOME news.:)

Keep us updated.

[ashleynicole]

yes! He at the second one as well!

[jarich]

Awesome, it's great to not have the worry of an injury anymore. Great job!

[Gungirl]

Yay!!! Its always nice when you can get them to switch to f/t easily. Hope he takes to rats just as easily.

[millertime89]

Big congrats!

[ashleynicole]

UPDATE... Kaa ate a f/t RAT today!!!!!!!!!!! We are so proud of him :D

[shaunyboy]

x2

Korbin and I also had a pleasant PM conversation, so we should be drama free!

To the OP, I sincerely apologize for the added drama; most that have been here a while know that I was acting out of character (not an excuse for derailing the thread). But we are one big dysfunctional community that share a common interest; a passion for reptiles. Let's try to keep it that way! :)
.

thats the beauty of this forum

we have our bad days and misunderstandings,but we always.....

sort it out and get back to buisness.....!!!

i try and live my life by 1 simple sentence.....


" IT'S NICE TO BE NICE "


all the best shaun

[DavethePython]

This may sound strange , but the reptile specialist at the store we got ours suggested rubbing the F/T on a gerbil before feeding it. They tried this in the store and the BP's would take it with no issue . I am totally new to this and have no real answers but thought I would share that anyway. Maybe BP prefer gerbils.

[ZARADOZIA]

UPDATE... Kaa ate a f/t RAT today!!!!!!!!!!! We are so proud of him :D


**Happy Dance!!**

[ashleynicole]

He has officially eaten 3 f/t rats so we are moving to feeding every 14 days now. What I do is I feed my corn snake his mouse first and then I put the corn away and use the same container to put the rat in, so it still smells like a mouse. He looks much healthier already and I am relieved to not have to worry about injury.

[ZARADOZIA]

He has officially eaten 3 f/t rats so we are moving to feeding every 14 days now. What I do is I feed my corn snake his mouse first and then I put the corn away and use the same container to put the rat in, so it still smells like a mouse. He looks much healthier already and I am relieved to not have to worry about injury.


Wonderful news!! I am still working with Sasha, she's off feed right now. She finished her shed so I am going to try and feed her tomorrow. Hope she eats, if not, means she has bedded down for winter.

[millertime89]

why not heat them up at the same time in the same container and just leave the rat in longer?

[ashleynicole]

Oh also, not sure if I mentioned that I give Kaa a warm bath before his feedings. This has always worked for me when he has gone off feed. I thaw the mice and rats inside their individual ziplock bags and then I warm them in a cup of hot water just before I feed. I did warm them together the first time, but I figured feeding in the same container that the mouse was in doesn't hurt anything either.

[Lankyrob]

When i fed mine in a separate tub i would sterilise the tub between snakes - would be awful if one were ill and passed on the illness through the feeding tub :(

[ashleynicole]

When i fed mine in a separate tub i would sterilise the tub between snakes - would be awful if one were ill and passed on the illness through the feeding tub :(

I clean the tubs after feeding, these two snakes have been sharing the same feeding container for about 7 years so if one of them carried something I think the other would've caught it by now... and the prey I buy frozen at petsmart or petco so it is not like I am buying dirty or contaminated food. Although I know contamination happens, I always thaw all the mice/rats together so if they were going to get cross contaminated it would happen before they even went into the feeding containers.

[Aaron_S]

Dave, it isn't strange to hear that about scenting with gerbils. They are a very close relative of a native animal that ball pythons eat in the wild so it makes sense. :) It's also why people have used african soft furred rats instead of "fancy" rats. Different smell. I personally just stick with "fancy" rats.

Since no one really seemed to answer the ball python eating a rabbit question I will go ahead and attempt it. I did skim most posts so if someone did point it out then I apologize. The reason most people don't feed their ball pythons rabbits is because ball pythons CAN and Do imprint on a particular feeder and if a snake gets a taste for rabbit and you don't have a consistent supplier than you're up a creek without a paddle. It's also more cost effective to just feed rats. I also am unsure of the nutritional value between a young rabbit and an adult rat but I would side with the rat being better. They tend to be more lean than mice or rabbits or guinea pigs.

[KORBIN5895]

Thanks Aaron! I keep meaning to ask that and never get around to it. So basically it isn't bad but it could end up extremely inconvenient.

[jarich]

I agree with Aaron on the rats just being more convenient. Especially as raising bunnies is a pretty messy business. As for the nutritional aspect though, I was pretty surprised to find out differently, as I thought the same thing (I figured they would be really fatty). I'd never looked before this thread as Id never considered using rabbits as feeder, but...

Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)