Thawing feeders 8 hours and re-freezing

[rodentgirl01]

I have a customer who was asking if I could bring him some feeder rabbits.

They are around 8 hours away (once I factor in stopping for gas, food, tolls, traffic, etc).

They are low on cash and wanted to know if I could just bring them without a cooler and ice, just in the car.

I mentioned they would thaw out and I'm not sure how safe/good that would be.

Anyway, I'll link the person to this thread so they can make the decision.

Your input would be great!

[spots]

I would look into some dry ice, would last much longer then ice.
As for the re-freeze I wouldn't do it as it will allow bacteria to grow when the animal is thaw for that long, and from my understanding freezing will not kill all bacteria. (correct me if I'm wrong)

[stephanbakir]

Bacteria isn't as bad as parasites when it comes to herps, I know an idiot who lives close to me who feeds his 17 foot burm carrion regularly, hes never payed for a rabbit in his life, always feeds it roadkill (I hate the guys guts) His burm looks fabulous, and if it can survive eating sunbaked food that was never frozen to kill the bacteria your snake should be fine with an 8 hour thawed food item.

[rodentgirl01]

Just to be clear, I'm not "FOR" doing it without some sort of ice and a cooler. I prefer dry ice but apparently its not available in the supermarkets like it was back in Arizona. I'd have to research where to get it locally.

[brandonh]

really? roadkill whats this guy thinking

[millertime89]

really? roadkill whats this guy thinking

not a whole lot apparently.

[brandonh]

i have no idea were to find dry ice at i never bought it before
wish i could help more

[infernalis]

Not that I would personally do it... But snakes do commonly eat rotting carrion in the wild.

Garter snakes, rat snakes, milk snakes and racers have all been witnessed in the wild sucking down the grossest of rotting carcasses without even getting sick.

The digestive fluids in a snake or lizards guts is potent stuff.

Don't you own an ice chest??? ;)

[KORBIN5895]

I hope you are charging enough for these rabbits. That sounds like a 16 hour delivery! And do you charge extra to put them in a cooler?

[TeaNinja]

are you driving 8 hours just to give this guy feeders? that sounds absurd.

[SnakeyJay]

I wouldnt personally do it as 8 hrs defrosting seems abit too long to refreeze. But thats just my preference. Goodluck either way :-)

[rodentgirl01]

I am offering these rabbits 1/2-1lb for $5.00 each.
I asked for $8.00 for ice and a cooler (styrofoam cooler).

But he said he couldn't meet me along my route so he asked if I could deliver to his door. He's not THAT out of the way so I said I could deliver to his door for an additional $10.00

He's wanting 5 rabbits so total for the 5 rabbits, plus packaging, plus delivery would be $43.00.

I was already making the trip down to Long Island for Christmas and he asked if I bred rabbits. I didn't but I looked for a farm locally that could supply me with quantity in the size he wants and other sizes.

I'm currently not really opened for business as I don't have my stock going, so this was just for a favor ;-)

But he said he doesn't really have the money and when I mentioned the ice/packaging/delivery charges he said he thought he was just paying the $5.00/rabbit.

So he asked about delivering without ice or a cooler and I didn't advise it but linked him to this thread to make his own choice :)

[alessia55]

Yeah, the trip seems kind of crazy :eek: 16hr round trip to deliver feeders...

[Gungirl]

Sounds to me like someone wants a lot for nothing.

[rodentgirl01]

(sorry, my last post re-posted when my internet dropped)

[Jay]

Freezing does not kill bacteria, just slows the growth. If he is not to far out of your way do it, just stop along the way and buy ice at service stations. If he is not willing to pay the price of ice, he's not worth your time. Don't let friendship interfere with business.

[KORBIN5895]

If you are going anyway it might be worth it. Freeze 2 liters of water and roll the 2 liters with the rabbits in blankets. It is crude but it will work

[Jenn_06]

Kats right he wants you to do all the work and not really pay you for the drive i dont know what kind of car you drive but ours will take more the $10 of gas for a 16 hour trip.

Im not a be fan about refreezing pray, yes wild snake do eat old die things sometimes but our snakes are not wild and there stomachs are not use to fighting all that stuff JMO

[CK SandBoas]

Personally, i would not take a trip that long without having the feeder animals packed with ice. I know the economy is bad, and money is tight with everyone, but if it was me, and if i was asking someone to bring me frozen feeder animals from any distance, i would find the means to pay for proper packaging, even if i had to ask to borrow the money from family.

[KORBIN5895]

our snakes are not wild and there stomachs are not use to fighting all that stuff JMO

I don't know about that. Any thing that can ingest a whole animal and turn it bones and all into gooey poo can probably take a little bacteria. Not that I recommend feed rotten stuff to save money.

[KORBIN5895]

Hey OP! Can you get these live? He can just brain them when he gets them.

[ZARADOZIA]

I'm not sure where you are but you might be able to find a local dry ice vendor at the website below:

Dry Ice Directory - Where to buy Dry Ice in the US & Canada (http://www.dryicedirectory.com/usa.htm)

The person asking you to deliver the rabbits to his front door is taking advantage of your kindness. Period.

1 pound rabbits cost an average of 6.00 each and that is NOT including shipping and tax. From a strictly business point of view, you are getting screwed and being forced to provide substandard quality.

In the end the decision is yours regardless of what the rest of us think.

[rodentgirl01]

Jenn
The trip to Long Island and back would cost me about $175.00 in gas. (If we take the 'cheap car', which is a Jeep Liberty, about 12-14 mpg?).

I couldn't drive there just to deliver him rabbits, but I'm visiting family for Thanksgiving and Christmas and offered to meet along my route, then offered to deliver to his door for $10 when he couldn't meet me :)

BUT for me to travel to Long Island just to deliver feeders (which is something I am considering doing on a once a month basis), I'd need enough clients along my route (which goes through PA as well) and in NYC/on Long Island.

But for now, I'm not officially open for business. Just doing a favor :) heh



Korbin
He asked me if I can deliver live and kill them for him. Then he said he'd kill them himself. My only issue with that is, If I get rabbits, I'll be picking up from a local supplier once or twice a month.

I'd have to keep them live until I head up there which poses 2 problems.
1- I don't have caging, food, or supplies to house rabbits
2- Once I get them, they'll continue to grow, and I won't be able to guarantee they'll still be the size he needs by the time I head to him.

Zaradozia
You are AWESOME! I had no idea how to find dry ice but that website helped me out a BUNCH! I was able to find a dry ice place literally 10 minutes from me! BTW, I asked for $6.00 each first and he talked me down to $5.

I'm a pushover apparently :P

Anyway, I agree with you. I don't feel comfortable delivering thawed food. That was my initial thought.


KKgal
I agree :)

[rodentgirl01]

btw, just got off the phone with the Dry Ice company in my area. A 1/4 block is about 10X10X2.5 (inches) and is about $17.00 plus tax and will keep an order frozen for about 8-10 hours.

Thanks again for that info!!

[ZARADOZIA]

Anyway, I agree with you. I don't feel comfortable delivering thawed food. That was my initial thought.


Excellent! I am glad I could be helpful.

Never lower your standards for anyone. Period. This is your business and if you don't feel comfortable, then don't do it.

You are making zero profit...that is NOT what business is about.

[millertime89]

Zaradozia nailed it on the head, nothing else needs to be said.

[KORBIN5895]

I meant pick 'em up the day before you go. Throw 'em in a box with some newspaper and give him them live. Also tell him to suck it up! How could he ask a lady to kill a rabbit for him.

[rodentgirl01]

LOL

So after:
4 days of constant back and forth emails

Me putting up ads to find farms with rabbits

Finding 3 people and arranging to purchase and pick up a few hundred dollars in rabbits (3 hour drive from me)

Going to the store to find Styrofoam coolers & price them out

Pricing out the ice

Map questing my route with his address

AND having my boyfriend take a half day from work on the 23rd so I could get to his house early enough (he usually gets off at 6pm so we wouldn't be there until like, 2am so he took off at 12 noon)

I get an email from him saying "I don't need them from you anymore, I found someone else locally."


BUT "when my feeder business is up and running he might need XXL rats"


*sigh*

I'm too patient.

[spots]

F#%&*@g people EH :(
I'll still invest in those tubs tho :D

[Gungirl]

I would not sell him anything after all that.... No matter what the situation. I might be a b!#$h but that's just me.

[infernalis]

It's for the best... really.

When I first started my computer business, I accepted a client in Rochester, You know the drive ;)

She called me out one night after work on an "Emergency warranty" call. I made the drive and found 2 CD rom disks in the tray at the same time.

Even though SHE jammed 2 disks in the same tray, she refused to even pay for my tank of gas.

The moral to my story, don't be TOO hungry for clients. Absurd drive times are counterproductive and never worth it in the end.

[KORBIN5895]

I would demand a non refundable deposit on ANY future business with him. I just had a lady want to buy a 55 gallon tank for 150. She then decided she needed a stand and I told her I could make one. We agreed on 250 total. She found another complete 55 gallon for 200. She decided to stick with me but I asked for a 100 deposit and she had no issues giving me the money.

[millertime89]

that's absurd.

[ZARADOZIA]

LOL

So after:
4 days of constant back and forth emails
Me putting up ads to find farms with rabbits
Finding 3 people and arranging to purchase and pick up a few hundred dollars in rabbits (3 hour drive from me)
Going to the store to find Styrofoam coolers & price them out
Pricing out the ice
Map questing my route with his address

AND having my boyfriend take a half day from work on the 23rd so I could get to his house early enough (he usually gets off at 6pm so we wouldn't be there until like, 2am so he took off at 12 noon)

I get an email from him saying "I don't need them from you anymore, I found someone else locally."

BUT "when my feeder business is up and running he might need XXL rats"

*sigh*

I'm too patient.


WOW...well thank yourself because you went above and beyond and learned something in the process. Never lower your standards. Have a set pricing, shipping, & handling and let that be the bottom line. Save yourself a lot of unnecessary stress. Remember, business is business and it has nothing to do with friends.

[SnakeyJay]

Atleast he said he didnt want them in an email, ive gone across england to drop a viv with someone, to be told they dont want it when im halfway there. :(

[CK SandBoas]

I'm hoping at least this person said , I'm sorry" in that e-mail, because if that was how it was worded, i would not do business with him in the future. To me, just basic consideration and manners go a long way in building future relations with a potential supplier.

[candyraver69]

Aside from bacteria, I wouldn't do it unless the snake is not a picky eater. Letting the food defrost and refreeze will seriously mess with the structure of the food. I had a small bag of mice in the mini-fridge freezer and when my power went out they partially defrosted, not even all the way. They refroze all stuck together. Then when I defrosted them they were super bloody and almost fell apart they were so mushy. Be prepared to serve snakey the rabbits in a doggy dish.

[candyraver69]

and if anyone was wondering I tossed that bag of mice...

[candyraver69]

What the heck how did I not see there was three pages? Sorry guys :S

Hopefully the guy apologized for wasting your time. I can sympathize with being broke and trying to save a buck, but that doesn't mean you take advantage of people.

[rodentgirl01]

Nope no sorry, exact words:


"Don't need them anymore, I've found a local breeder :)"


"If he ends up being a fake then I'll get my feeders from you.. But don't you think driving out 16 hours just to deliver sounds absurd? He's in the Bronx like I am so i can just pick them up without a problem."

(two separate emails).

He's not a friend of mine either, just someone who pmed me on here lol

Whatever, no worries. Everything happens for a reason ;-)

[KORBIN5895]

Some one on here?

[rodentgirl01]

uh huh. Idk how active he is though. He's not a bad guy, just a young kid.

[Squirtle]

lol.......

[youngster]

lol.......

:) :p :D :rolleyes:

[KORBIN5895]

Maybe I am a little slow but click! The switch finally flipped.