What type corn is this

[daddy and son]

Hi all,
The guy I bought these from told me they were Okeetees. Being as I'm new to all this, I wouldn't know an Okeetee from a manatee. (okay, i'm not THAT bad, but you get the idea). Anyway, I took some pics of the babies and thought I'd post them. Are these okeetees? The look nice for sure. Their names are Cleo (previously known as Butthead), and Muffy. Cleo is the one with the diamond on her head. The both ate yesterday so have a nice little food bulge.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg20/hillcat2008/corn-cleo1.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg20/hillcat2008/corn-cleo2.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg20/hillcat2008/corn-cleo3.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg20/hillcat2008/corn-muffy1.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg20/hillcat2008/corn-muffy2.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg20/hillcat2008/corn-muffy3.jpg

[blindfireak40]

It's hard to tell from these pictures, but it looks like they might have Okeetee blood in them. Okeetee refers to a selectively bred (not inherited!!) set of pattern traits: Particularly uniform saddles with strong, heavy black borders around. If, as they grow, they begin exhibiting the heavy black borders, I'd say yes, they are definitely "Okeetee" in appearance. If not, they still look nice :)

[youngster]

Looks okeetee to me.

[daddy and son]

Yeah, they are nice looking. What might be good to breed them with? I know it's a ways off, but just trying to get some ideas.

[youngster]

Just okeetees. They're selectively bred.

[Gungirl]

They looks alot like my little Ivan did when he was a worm..Ivan is a buckskin Okeetee
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/DSCF0075.jpg

[daddy and son]

Just okeetees. They're selectively bred.

So I couldn't breed them with, like, a bloodred or miami phase for example?

ETA- Gungirl, thats a beautiful snake

[Snakefood]

they look like okeetee's to me. Nice thick black borders. Really you can only breed them to Okeetee's or you dilute the blood and the babies are basically just normals. but my Blizzards breeder said you can also breed them to reverse Okeetee's without diluting the Okeetee bloodlines.

[Gungirl]

So I couldn't breed them with, like, a bloodred or miami phase for example?

You CAN breed them with any morph you want... If you want to sell them you need to look at what sells and what morph combos create what.

Play with this and it will help you see what ='s what The Corn Calculator - Corn snake genetics prediction (http://www.corncalc.com/)
Also look at The Definitive Guide to Corn Snake Morphs - Ians Vivarium (http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/)

[Snakefood]

and remember that both Okeetee and Miami Phase are considered Normals on the corn calculator.

[daddy and son]

Good info. I need to do some more reading on the different morphs and breeding and such. I know they need to be at least 3 yrs old to breed them or I can risk injury. I've also read the females should only be bred every other year. You guys are great for being so patient with me. I'm really having fun learning all this.

ETA- eventually, it might be fun to try and come up with something new.

[alessia55]

Definitely NOT a manatee ;) :p :p :p

[youngster]

I know they need to be at least 3 yrs old to breed them

Actually boys can breed at 2 years. It's the females that can risk injury by breeding too early.

[Snakefood]

Breeding corns is governed by the 3:3:3 rule. They have to be 2 out of the 3 to breed (most important for females of course)

1. 3 years old
2. 3 feet long
3. 300 grams

[stephanbakir]

Males can breed as early as 14 months, but half the clutch will slug out, around 18 months you can assume at least 80% fertility.

[daddy and son]

so a 2011 male, I should wait til spring of 2014 (about 2 1/2 yrs old). A 2011 female, figure on the 2015 breeding season. Not trying to see how quick I can do it, better to wait and have healthy babies and mothers.

[Snakefood]

Somewhere around there, my female Okeetee is 3 yrs, 3' long and 269 grams, so she will be ready for her first breeding season in 2012. I have heard of some females who reach the lenght and weight ratio in their second year, but I beleiv this is quite rare, unless your power feeding which I don't think would be very healthy for your snakes.

[Lankyrob]

All i hear about breeding corns mention the 3 3's rule for males and females - 3yrs old, 3ft long and 300g as a minimum.

[ladyjustice33]

so a 2011 male, I should wait til spring of 2014 (about 2 1/2 yrs old). A 2011 female, figure on the 2015 breeding season. Not trying to see how quick I can do it, better to wait and have healthy babies and mothers.

I just bought a proven pair of reverse okeetees. They are gorgeous!! I hope to have some reverse okeetee babies for sale next summer/fall if you are in the market later for a rev. okeetee to breed to one of your okeetees!!! I'll be posting pictures soon, they will be here Tuesday. Also got a pair of butters, but they will need another year before they are ready.

here are a couple pics of the rev okeetees from the breeder......

[ladyjustice33]

Fyi though.....an okeetee is just a wildtype that has been selectively bred for the nice black borders and a reverse okeetee is just an amelanistic that has been bred for the nice white borders......thus reverse. If you breed a regular okeetee to a reverse okeetee.....technically you would get all normal okeetees that are het for amelanistic. Then if you bred one of the normal het for amelanistic okeetees back to a reverse okeetee you would get 1/2 okeetee and 1/2 reverse okeetee. Faster is to just breed to reverse okeetees to each other and get all amelanistic (reverse) okeetees.

[kernel]

Somewhere around there, my female Okeetee is 3 yrs, 3' long and 269 grams, so she will be ready for her first breeding season in 2012. I have heard of some females who reach the lenght and weight ratio in their second year, but I beleiv this is quite rare, unless your power feeding which I don't think would be very healthy for your snakes.

I don't power feed my snakes (they all eat once a week) and my female bloodred is only 1 1/2 years old and already weighs about 250 grams. She's going to be a big girl!

[ladyjustice33]

I don't power feed my snakes (they all eat once a week) and my female bloodred is only 1 1/2 years old and already weighs about 250 grams. She's going to be a big girl!

I do the same, once a week. Actually, if any of you watch BHB's snakebytes tv, Brian has an episode were he did a test on different feeding methods with corns and feeding one large meal per week resulted in the most growth. I got my anery female and stripe male from BHB and boy are they nippy!!! I doubt they have time to do much socializing with them.

[Snakefood]

I don't power feed my snakes (they all eat once a week) and my female bloodred is only 1 1/2 years old and already weighs about 250 grams. She's going to be a big girl!

No, me neither. All my snakes eat once per week. But I have heard others who power feed to get females up to breeding size faster. I personally disagree with this method as I can't see glutting any animal as being healthy.

Your right, she's gonna be a big girl!! my 3 yr old is at 269, but she hits the other 2 out of the 3's. And who knows, maybe by feb, she'll be really close to 300g.

[millertime89]

how heavy are your corns at about 4 months?

[daddy and son]

Cleo and Muffy get fed every Saturday. one pinky each.
on a side note. getting a new miami phase male in a couple of weeks.

[kernel]

how heavy are your corns at about 4 months?

I got all, but 4 of mine at the age of 6 months or older. 2 of the 4 are only a couple of months old. The other 2 weighed 2 completely different weights at the age of 4 months. 1 weighed 20 grams and the other weighed 40 grams.

[millertime89]

kernel, was the 40g one a female?

[Snakefood]

how heavy are your corns at about 4 months?


my youngest is 5 mos and weighed in last week at 13 grams and 19" long

[kernel]

kernel, was the 40g one a female?

Both the 20 gram and the 40 gram were females. The 20 gram is 10 months old now and weighs 40 grams. The 40 gram is 11 months old now and weighs 70 grams.

[millertime89]

Thanks for the info guys

[youngster]

I need a little scale to weigh mine :/ Can't find one though I'll have to order off the internet. Anyone have a good brand they use?

[millertime89]

Eli, have any bed bath and beyond's near you? That's where I found mine for 20 bucks, slightly more expensive initial cost than some on the intrawebs, but you save when you factor in shipping.

[Gungirl]

I need a little scale to weigh mine :/ Can't find one though I'll have to order off the internet. Anyone have a good brand they use?

Walmart and bed bath and beyond in Keene have good ones.

[youngster]

Cool, thanks guys I'll have to try that.

[millertime89]

this is what I have
The Biggest Loser® Digital Kitchen Scale - Bed Bath & Beyond (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=15947047)
the local walmarts didn't have any ones for less than 35ish

[youngster]

Thanks, I'll try both and see if I can't find a good cheap one.


Woot 900th post :P