Name your breed..

[Strutter769]

I've been asking recently about breeding snakes and possibly combining a couple boas, or a couple pythons (Way, waaay down the road). I KNOW I'M GONNA GET SKME GRIEF for the idea, but we're very serious about this and of course will research any combination before we try, but I'm curious what you guys and girls would like to see created? What would you have in your collection that may not be out there yet?

Ok, lemme have it.

[millertime89]

you're gonna get flack from the purists who think you should be working to produce the most beautiful from what we already have. I'll try and come up with something that might look cool, but when cross breeding two different species, its almost a total shot in the dark if 1) they can mate and 2) if they do, if they'll produce anything other than slugs.

That said, if possible, I'm thinking maybe a dwarf or super dwarf retic to a carpet or GTP would be cool. A semi arboreal retic would be awesome.

[Strutter769]

you're gonna get flack from the purists who think you should be working to produce the most beautiful from what we already have. I'll try and come up with something that might look cool, but when cross breeding two different species, its almost a total shot in the dark if 1) they can mate and 2) if they do, if they'll produce anything other than slugs.

That said, if possible, I'm thinking maybe a dwarf or super dwarf retic to a carpet or GTP would be cool. A semi arboreal retic would be awesome.

Yeah, I get that. Let me just throw out there that I just learned yesterday that this had even been done intentionally in the past, and even as I bring it up it's not something I'm entirely comfortable with. I hope it'll just turn into a cool conversations of "What if's..." Like, the size and structure of a Suri, with the coloring of a BRB? I guess the red tail wouldn't stand out really well, would it?

[Strutter769]

My wife would really like a dwarf Suri...

[Strutter769]

What about a Suri with a Peruvian Boa? Think the offspring would look much different than either parent?

[red ink]

Well you did say let you have it.....

Why are you interested in creating something that's not "out there", a general interest in reptile husbandry or a general interest in noteriety and money?

I have no problem in people trying new things for the sake of general learning in reptile husbandry and genetics but these people don't also ask what people would like to see. The people that do are the ones "testing" the market looking for a buck or noteriety.

Asking people what can be created/what they'd like to see created screams "market research". Look for what's not there create it and cash in....

[ZARADOZIA]

Gentically speaking, the biggest problem of cross breeding species (based on warm blooded animals, sorry I don't know much about cross breeding reptile species) is the next generation being born sterile as well as having neurological disorders. (Also main reason why animals should not be inbred)

To give a few examples, Tigons & Ligers. These are the results of tigers and lions mating.

“Crossing the species line” does not generally occur in the wild, because “it would result in diminished fitness of the offspring,” said Ronald Tilson, director of conservation at the Minnesota Zoo in Apple Valley.


This is Hercules, from The Institute of Greatly Endangered and Rare Species in Miami, Florida. He is a liger. He stood 10 feet tall on 2/26/05.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/lig1.jpg


I am not for or against interspecies breeding, just bringing to mind possible negative side effects that could cause you problems later.

[redsided]

I hate hybrids. I have no interest in them whatsoever.

[Strutter769]

Well you did say let you have it.....

Why are you interested in creating something that's not "out there", a general interest in reptile husbandry or a general interest in noteriety and money?

I have no problem in people trying new things for the sake of general learning in reptile husbandry and genetics but these people don't also ask what people would like to see. The people that do are the ones "testing" the market looking for a buck or noteriety.

Asking people what can be created/what they'd like to see created screams "market research". Look for what's not there create it and cash in....

All very valid points Red, thank you. Please understand this was just an idea we've been kicking around (and maybe not a very good one). I understand your point of doing it for noteriety and not out of passion for husbandry. This is exactly why I posed the question, was to get a feeling of the general concensus and see how accepted this idea is throughout the trade.

Thanks for your feedback and understand we are taking this next step within the hobby, and we pledge not to do anything stupid, or somethin' just to make a buck.

[KORBIN5895]

I have heard that brb will breed with a rtb but I got it from a second hand source and can't verify the outcome.

[Will0W783]

There are actually quite a few hybrid pythons and boas out there already, many of which are very interesting in their own rights. I for one am not inherently opposed to hydbridization, as long as the animals are clearly represented for what they are, and as long as pure bloodlines of the original species are maintained as well.

Some of the more well-known hybrids (these are all fertile as far as I know) include:

Carpondro (carpet pythond x chondropython (GTP))

Carpall (carpet python x ball python)

Blood ball (ball python x blood python)

Super ball (ball python x short-tailed python)

Burmball (ball python x Burmese python) -don't ask me how this one works- it's gotta be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway for the poor male BP, lol....

Wall (woma python x ball python)

Bateater (Burmese python x reticulated python)

Burmese Rock (Burmese python x rock python)

Jungle retic (Bateater x reticulated python)


I'm sure there are more, but these are the common ones that I am aware of. There is less clear hybridization in boas, but combos of Hogg Island x Colombian, Colombian x central american, and others exist. These are more dangerous, IMO, as they often do not differ significantly in appearance from the parent species and as such are often not represented as being hybrids.

I personally would like to see a "carpoma" (carpet x woma python) and a woma x white-lipped python. I think they would make interesting combinations.

[Strutter769]

[QUOTE=ZARADOZIA;641862]Gentically speaking, the biggest problem of cross breeding species (based on warm blooded animals, sorry I don't know much about cross breeding reptile species) is the next generation being born sterile as well as having neurological disorders. (Also main reason why animals should not be inbred)

To give a few examples, Tigons & Ligers. These are the results of tigers and lions mating.

“Crossing the species line” does not generally occur in the wild, because “it would result in diminished fitness of the offspring,” said Ronald Tilson, director of conservation at the Minnesota Zoo in Apple Valley.


This is Hercules, from The Institute of Greatly Endangered and Rare Species in Miami, Florida. He is a liger. He stood 10 feet tall on 2/26/05.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/lig1.jpg



Thanks so much for your feedback! As beautiful as that animal is, I don't see a point in raising something that's srmterile, much less any neurological disorder.

[Strutter769]

There are actually quite a few hybrid pythons and boas out there already, many of which are very interesting in their own rights. I for one am not inherently opposed to hydbridization, as long as the animals are clearly represented for what they are, and as long as pure bloodlines of the original species are maintained as well.

Some of the more well-known hybrids (these are all fertile as far as I know) include:

Carpondro (carpet pythond x chondropython (GTP))

Carpall (carpet python x ball python)

Blood ball (ball python x blood python)

Super ball (ball python x short-tailed python)

Burmball (ball python x Burmese python) -don't ask me how this one works- it's gotta be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway for the poor male BP, lol....

Wall (woma python x ball python)

Bateater (Burmese python x reticulated python)

Burmese Rock (Burmese python x rock python)

Jungle retic (Bateater x reticulated python)


I'm sure there are more, but these are the common ones that I am aware of. There is less clear hybridization in boas, but combos of Hogg Island x Colombian, Colombian x central american, and others exist. These are more dangerous, IMO, as they often do not differ significantly in appearance from the parent species and as such are often not represented as being hybrids.

I personally would like to see a "carpoma" (carpet x woma python) and a woma x white-lipped python. I think they would make interesting combinations.

Thalns for that list and your feedback. I can't wait to researchers and see how these turned out.

[lady_bug87]

i looove Carpondros... the supplier I go to has one.. beautiful animal... but a nippy little bugger

[CDN_Blood]

I would never touch a hybrid. I don't know anyone personally that would, either. I only associate with ethical and responsible keepers, so that probably has a lot to do with it.

I do have an Morelia intergrade, but it was a rescue and I'd never let her reproduce. Intergrades aren't quite as bad as hybrids, but I wouldn't let anything of mine be part of any intergrade project either.

These are just my opinions, but I feel strongly about the subject :)

[stephanbakir]

There are actually quite a few hybrid pythons and boas out there already, many of which are very interesting in their own rights. I for one am not inherently opposed to hydbridization, as long as the animals are clearly represented for what they are, and as long as pure bloodlines of the original species are maintained as well.

Some of the more well-known hybrids (these are all fertile as far as I know) include:

Carpondro (carpet pythond x chondropython (GTP))

Carpall (carpet python x ball python)

Blood ball (ball python x blood python)

Super ball (ball python x short-tailed python)

Burmball (ball python x Burmese python) -don't ask me how this one works- it's gotta be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway for the poor male BP, lol....

Wall (woma python x ball python)

Bateater (Burmese python x reticulated python)

Burmese Rock (Burmese python x rock python)

Jungle retic (Bateater x reticulated python)


I'm sure there are more, but these are the common ones that I am aware of. There is less clear hybridization in boas, but combos of Hogg Island x Colombian, Colombian x central american, and others exist. These are more dangerous, IMO, as they often do not differ significantly in appearance from the parent species and as such are often not represented as being hybrids.

I personally would like to see a "carpoma" (carpet x woma python) and a woma x white-lipped python. I think they would make interesting combinations.
I agree with Kim 100%, I'm actually buying a green/yellow anaconda hybrid in a few months, and I'm actively working on a SD tiger retic/spider ball python hybrid, and the retic is 100% het albino, so hopefully down the lines we will see a spider super tiger albino balltic, from superdwarf lines.

[ZARADOZIA]

Thanks so much for your feedback! As beautiful as that animal is, I don't see a point in raising something that's srmterile, much less any neurological disorder.

So far, for some reason, all the male hybrids (Ligers and Tigons) are sterile. But the females are not. The male must always be a purebred lion or tiger.

I haven't done indepth analysis but it could be a similar off shoot compared to calicos.

[KORBIN5895]

Hey Zar, I think that you might be watching a little too much Napoleon Dynamite. €;p

[ZARADOZIA]

Hey Zar, I think that you might be watching a little too much Napoleon Dynamite. €;p

No, I have never seen it.

[Will0W783]

It is true that hybrid mammals usually have sterility problems, but as far as I know none of the python hybrids are. I did see an Amazon tree boa/ emerald tree boa hybrid at the last reptile show- that was really cool. It was yellow and green and blue. Amazing creature!

Stephan, I forgot about the balltic...those are awesome critters.

Again, I think that as long as pure lines are maintained of all the original species, and hybrids are microchipped/paperworked and/or otherwise clearly identified as such, we can explore the possibilities while still keeping natural beauty intact. Only careful, ethical breeders should be producing hybrids....but for that matter, the same applies to any species of snake. We have a lot of "snake mill" or "cellar breeders" who have no regard for the health of the animals or inbreeding or genetic defects and just try to churn out the maximum number of babies possible...with pure species.

[shaunyboy]

as far as hybrids go some i like others i don't

i have NO problem with folk who breed hybrids

cheers shaun

[jaleely]

holy crap, i didn't know you could breed a carpet and a ball...and I sure as heck didn't know you could breed a tiger and a lion *lmao*

[ZARADOZIA]

holy crap, i didn't know you could breed a carpet and a ball...and I sure as heck didn't know you could breed a tiger and a lion *lmao*

Only reason I know about the tigers and lions is because I follow Big Cats. I have a cat fetish and can't wait to be able to interact with them. My life long dream is to become disgustingly rich so I can open a Big Cat Rescue with other exotics. I want to care for them and educate the public. Cats are amazing hunters, some are able to hang upside down in tree by their hind legs to catch prey on lower branches (Ocelot). I just love cats. When I was growing up I use to dream about having a panther. My current kitties, Evie and Diesel look like white tigers and Fritz looks like ablack panther...lol