Milking a Borneo or Blood Python.

[marvelfreak]

This is a must read for all Borneo Short Tail or Blood Python owners.
So my Borneo as gone 11 months with out crapping. So i was looking for info on what to do.
Then the other day on another forum there was a girl with a Blood with the same problem. It had gone 10 months without pooping. She was told to soak it in warm water. She had been doing it 3 times a week for three months didn't help. She was asked if the snake was eating regularly and active. She said yes. Same as mine.

She was told to make sure the water was deep enough it had to swim this would help break it up. She tried it and it didn't work.
Then she was asked if she had tried milking it. Everyone was like what the hell. The guy explain you soak the snake in warm water for a bit. Then you massage the belly towards the rear in. You will feel hard little bumps. This are dried urine. Massage helps break it lose. You slow push them towards the rear and very carefully work it out.

So today i gave it a try. I could not believe how much dry urine came out of her. It took and while but i believe i got it all work out of her. So hopefully she will finally be able to poop for the first time in months. I was lucky and she just rested her head on my arm and let me do it. I thought i would get tagged for sure. I believe this is why she 's been cranky lately.

Borneo and Bloods have the slowest metabolism of any snake so has they get older the don't poop as much. Most adults only go once every 3 to 4 months. So some times it get's build up in them and backs up. This is why it's important to get records of how often they go. Any longer than 5 months then you should start soaking or letting them swim a couple times a week to help work it lose. So you hopefully don't have to milk them to get it out.

I took before and after pictures. The last pic is of all the dry urine that came out. It might not look like it, but the two big one were 4 to 5 inches long and as big around as a half dollar.

Before she look like she is going to burst. She was so fat her color looked faded.
15025
The after she has some of her color back.
15027
These were bigger than they look. There was actually three more big ones that aren't in the picture.
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[Gungirl]

Awww I'm so happy you where able to help your girl out, I bet she was thankful!

[marvelfreak]

Awww I'm so happy you where able to help your girl out, I bet she was thankful!
She seemed very relived and relax after i was done. She actually didn't mine being held. Lately she hasn't wanted to be picked up at all. After she sat on my lap and crawled all over. :)

[stephanbakir]

Learn something new every day :)

[alessia55]

Interesting. Never heard of "milking" a snake before! Learning all the time here

[RegenerationRep]

This method also works for impacted beardies and leopard geckos.

Thanks for sharing. She looks great and I'm glad to hear shes okay.

[marvelfreak]

This method also works for impacted beardies and leopard geckos.

Thanks for sharing. She looks great and I'm glad to hear shes okay.
I was talking to my rat guy this morning and he said he had to do it with a impacted Dumeril Boa before. Plus he helped another guy do it with a impacted Black Blood. After hearing about it i figure i give it a try, if it didn't work next i was going to take her to the Vet. This was a lot cheaper and wasn't hard to do at all.

[ZARADOZIA]

Thanks for posting! I would like to get a Borneo next and this will certainly come in handy!

[unknownclown]

What a beautiful snake! I will have to remember this with my sumatran bloods. Thanks for the heads up

[marvelfreak]

I just wished some one else would have been here then i could have video taped it. So you could all see first hand how to do it. It was a lot easier than i thought it would be. I have own snake for over 19 years and i am still learn knew things all the time. This was something once i tried it and seen it worked i just had to share.

[millertime89]

if you've got a camera that shoots video, you can get a small tripod for like 20 bucks.

[jaleely]

I thought "milking" a snake wasn't making them poop, but getting venom from the venomous snakes...?

[CDN_Blood]

I suppose I've been very lucky. In 24 years of keeping pythons and boas I've never had this problem. My oldest Blood just turned 10 years old this month and that's how long I've had him, but have never had this issue.

I can't help but wonder if it's partly due to feeding schedules. I've never used a 'schedule' for feeding in all the years I've been keeping boids - I find it too unnatural, personally.

One of my snakes is a Solomon Island Tree Boa, and when she arrived she was quite underweight, so I was giving her substantial meals (3-4 mice per meal which is a lot for her size) for the first month or two. Since these snakes are quite slender and they'd never really eat that much per sitting in their natural environment, she was often unable to pass the fur from such a large meal and would regurgitate it. That's not terribly uncommon for an arboreal that has consumed too many furred animals, but it shows something...

When considering feeding, one must weigh Activity vs. Intake, and we all know Bloods aren't the most active snakes in the group, so using a regular feeding schedule often leads to obesity in Bloods, which only shortens their lives and is very unhealthy for anything (warm or cold-blooded).

If we compound a constant food supply with not enough activity, I could easily imagine entirely too much uric acid (the white matter seen in the images, which is comprised of bone matter, teeth and claws that have been digested) building-up and causing this problem.

I'm only guessing at this, but I've seen a lot of people who use the scheduled feeding method experience it over the past couple of decades, yet have never seen anyone who opts for a more natural feeding approach have that problem, so when I do the math I'm lead to this conclusion. Again, it's not affirmative, I'm just guessing at the root of the problem.

If this is indeed the cause, there are 2 simple solutions a body could opt to try and see if it makes a difference. One would be to get the snake out for exercise on a more regular basis, as moving around more helps keep things moving a little easier, as well as ensures better health weight-wise. Another option would be to drop the idea of a feeding on a schedule and try the more natural times-of-plenty mixed with more lean-times for food intake.

Just because Bloods are a heavy-bodied snake doesn't mean they should be fat. In the wild they'd often go for months without eating while they aestivate to avoid the extreme heat, only resurfacing and becoming active again once the constant rains arrived.

Just some food for thought :)

[lady_bug87]

I suppose I've been very lucky. In 24 years of keeping pythons and boas I've never had this problem. My oldest Blood just turned 10 years old this month and that's how long I've had him, but have never had this issue.

I can't help but wonder if it's partly due to feeding schedules. I've never used a 'schedule' for feeding in all the years I've been keeping boids - I find it too unnatural, personally.

One of my snakes is a Solomon Island Tree Boa, and when she arrived she was quite underweight, so I was giving her substantial meals (3-4 mice per meal which is a lot for her size) for the first month or two. Since these snakes are quite slender and they'd never really eat that much per sitting in their natural environment, she was often unable to pass the fur from such a large meal and would regurgitate it. That's not terribly uncommon for an arboreal that has consumed too many furred animals, but it shows something...

When considering feeding, one must weigh Activity vs. Intake, and we all know Bloods aren't the most active snakes in the group, so using a regular feeding schedule often leads to obesity in Bloods, which only shortens their lives and is very unhealthy for anything (warm or cold-blooded).

If we compound a constant food supply with not enough activity, I could easily imagine entirely too much uric acid (the white matter seen in the images, which is comprised of bone matter, teeth and claws that have been digested) building-up and causing this problem.

I'm only guessing at this, but I've seen a lot of people who use the scheduled feeding method experience it over the past couple of decades, yet have never seen anyone who opts for a more natural feeding approach have that problem, so when I do the math I'm lead to this conclusion. Again, it's not affirmative, I'm just guessing at the root of the problem.

If this is indeed the cause, there are 2 simple solutions a body could opt to try and see if it makes a difference. One would be to get the snake out for exercise on a more regular basis, as moving around more helps keep things moving a little easier, as well as ensures better health weight-wise. Another option would be to drop the idea of a feeding on a schedule and try the more natural times-of-plenty mixed with more lean-times for food intake.

Just because Bloods are a heavy-bodied snake doesn't mean they should be fat. In the wild they'd often go for months without eating while they aestivate to avoid the extreme heat, only resurfacing and becoming active again once the constant rains arrived.

Just some food for thought :)

how do you exercise them just let them out to explore?

[CDN_Blood]

how do you exercise them just let them out to explore?

Yup. The snakes are all in one room (with the exception of one at any time which temporarily resides in a display tank on the main floor of the house, switched often). Their room is escape-proof, so I never need to worry about them getting into trouble up there.

Where Bloods are concerned, letting them lose for any length of time is not as easy as it is for other things such as Carpets, but it's still doable if you understand and know your Bloods :)

[unknownclown]

Well my female seems to enjoy striking at me and whatever else comes near her quite often and then when she gets a good mouthfull of flesh she will excersize her jaw muscles by clamping over and over :p
when I do hold them and dont get bit I basically do hand over hand cause if I set them down they will just sit there huffing away doing nothing. They truely arent very active at least mine arent.... Although... if I could figure out how to fasten a stick to thier heads and dangle a rat in front of them Im quite confident that would work :)

[shaunyboy]

informative thread chuck even though your talking crap :yes::yes::yes:

it was pretty amazing the difference in your bloods colour before and after milking

cheers shaun

[Uncle_Rev]

Certainly don't want any cookies with that milk...

[marvelfreak]

I can't help but wonder if it's partly due to feeding schedules. I've never used a 'schedule' for feeding in all the years I've been keeping boids - I find it too unnatural, personally.

When considering feeding, one must weigh Activity vs. Intake, and we all know Bloods aren't the most active snakes in the group, so using a regular feeding schedule often leads to obesity in Bloods, which only shortens their lives and is very unhealthy for anything (warm or cold-blooded).

If we compound a constant food supply with not enough activity, I could easily imagine entirely too much uric acid (the white matter seen in the images, which is comprised of bone matter, teeth and claws that have been digested) building-up and causing this problem.

I'm only guessing at this, but I've seen a lot of people who use the scheduled feeding method experience it over the past couple of decades, yet have never seen anyone who opts for a more natural feeding approach have that problem, so when I do the math I'm lead to this conclusion. Again, it's not affirmative, I'm just guessing at the root of the problem.

Just some food for thought :)
I feed one med rat every 14 to 16 days. I do need to start getting her out more. Since i moved my snake room i only been getting her out maybe once a month. I need to start letting her out more so she gets some exercise. Thinking about start getting her out at least twice a week like i use to. She is the laziest snake i ever seen.

Out of the 11 months of no pooping 4 to 5 months of that time she would only eat once every 5 to 6 weeks. She was losing quite a bit of weight. Then i started getting my rat from a friend and started feeding fresh killed instead of F/T. She started eating every time i feed. So it only been the last 3 months she even eat regularly.

Shaun you and Uncle Rev got me LMAO.

[Gungirl]

I think its just one of those things... some people poop every day some don't, Some snakes poop every week or 2 and some don't.

[CDN_Blood]

...if I set them down they will just sit there huffing away doing nothing...

That's a sign, it's just not being interpreted.

[marvelfreak]

I thought "milking" a snake wasn't making them poop, but getting venom from the venomous snakes...?
It is, but i guess it can mean making them poop. This is what they kept calling it anyway.

[Blood Mafia]

I keep mostly Bloods and short tails,we have at this time 62 of them,Its normal for them to go that long,Mine normally go every 4-6 months and thats it..They are just that way..

Hope this helps

[marvelfreak]

UPDATE!

After 11 1/2 months she finally pooped. I am so happy. I feel so bad and will never let one go this long with out tiring to milk to help it poo. I couldn't believe how big it was. The size of this was bigger than all the dried urine.

As big around as a baseball and 15 inches long.:eek:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4931/malaysianbloods107.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/malaysianbloods107.jpg/)

[youngster]

Holy crap that is a HUGE poo!!! I feel bad for her but it's good she got it out.

[CDN_Blood]

Glad to see she did her thing. It looks about the right size and a healthy pass. It takes a *lot* of intake for them to bother dumping it, and she looks about right for size, so I'd say you're in the clear now.

With proper-sized meals (which it looks like she's been having), she should dump every month (give or take) from this point.

She looks great and she's a beautiful girl. Keep up the good work :P

[Gungirl]

Holy Crap pile!! Glad she finally went.

[marvelfreak]

Glad to see she did her thing. It looks about the right size and a healthy pass. It takes a *lot* of intake for them to bother dumping it, and she looks about right for size, so I'd say you're in the clear now.

With proper-sized meals (which it looks like she's been having), she should dump every month (give or take) from this point.

She looks great and she's a beautiful girl. Keep up the good work :P
Thanks! She don't look it, but she right at 3 foot 5.5 lbs. Well she might be a little lighter now. lol

[Blood Mafia]

Ya I agree thats pretty normal...Looks like a loaf!!! No pun

[lady_bug87]

That poo is huge... I hate snake poop >.<

[Will0W783]

Interesting. Thanks, Chuck.

Although, I do have to argue that bloods and Borneo short-tailed pythons do not have the slowest metabolisms of any snake. Maybe pythons, but not any snake. Arboreal vipers are much slower in many cases. I own a beautiful female Wagleri (temple viper) and she is fed once every 4 weeks. She usually poops every 3rd-4th meal...so we're talking every 90-120 days. This is actually perfectly normal for Wagleri. VERY slow metabolic rate.

[CDN_Blood]

...Although, I do have to argue that bloods and Borneo short-tailed pythons do not have the slowest metabolisms of any snake...

I concur. It's not about having slow metabolisms, it's about Active vs. Inactive. While I will say that my brongs seems to have slower metabolisms than my breit, they all get out for regular exercise. I prefer a lean, healthy and fit snake over one that has an unhealthy amount of extra tonnage, so that keeps mine processing and passing food on a fairly regular basis.

Of course, if a snake is left to just sit and do nothing, it's metabolism will gradually slow down. Ours will too if we lead sedentary lifestyles and just sit around all day :)

[Will0W783]

Ours will too if we lead sedentary lifestyles and just sit around all day

Don't I know it. Lol....I'm a scientist, so the majority of my day is spent sitting at a desk or lab bench. I've definitely lost muscle and slowed down, but not terribly as I'm still somewhat young. :-p

[marvelfreak]

I have noticed every since i milked her she been a lot more active than i ever seen her.
When i fed her last night she was more interested in trying to climb out of the cage than eating the rat. Normally i look in her tub and she's always in the same place, but now she always moving around. I will be getting her out a lot more so she can get some exercise.

[CDN_Blood]

I love all this good news :)

[marvelfreak]

Just a quick update she has just left me her third gift since i milked her. She also more active than she ever been. I am so happy she back to normal.

[CDN_Blood]

Just a quick update she has just left me her third gift since i milked her. She also more active than she ever been. I am so happy she back to normal.

It's good to hear. Keeping them active keeps them happy, so don't be afraid to get her moving if you see she's sitting around too much. That'll keep her regular and healthy :)

[unknownclown]

ok so my male seems to need to be milked it feels like he has rocks in his belly. So which did you go with warm water that he can chill in or enough to swim in and how long to soak before you try helping him out?

[marvelfreak]

ok so my male seems to need to be milked it feels like he has rocks in his belly. So which did you go with warm water that he can chill in or enough to swim in and how long to soak before you try helping him out?
I used warm water for a couple soak but she never pooped. So i put about 4 inches of warm water in and let her swim still nothing. So then i started the rubbing her belly. You will feel the rocks (dry urine) carfully roll them in your fingers against each other. This will help break them down into smaller pieces. Then slow work them one at a time towards the vent. Then i carefully work them out of the vent till i couldn't feel any more. Not the funnest thing to do, but we do what we have to for our beloved pets.

[Caylan]

My one brong goes months with out pooing but regularly passes urates, so I think that might be key. As long as theres nothing to block it, a blood will go eventually! Seems they have varying periods of passing waste, from monthly to bi yearly/yearly. But not everyone keeps there snakes the exact same way. I've always thought there's no one way to keep a snake, they are very adaptable! There are plenty of wrong ways still though.... Just my thoughts, I'm still fairly new to bloods, and mine don't seem too typical as it is... ~Caylan.S.~

[unknownclown]

ok so yeah... that was funny I read your post got him out of his soak started to rub his belly twards the cloaka and darn near shot my husband next to me with urates. The rest came out perfectly not sure if he will eat with all the attention and stress but Im gonna try cause he has lost a bit of weight thru that..
Thank you again for this post it has been most helpful :-)

[Shmoges]

I have done the same thing for my anery longicauda many times.

[jaleely]

I used warm water for a couple soak but she never pooped. So i put about 4 inches of warm water in and let her swim still nothing. So then i started the rubbing her belly. You will feel the rocks (dry urine) carfully roll them in your fingers against each other. This will help break them down into smaller pieces. Then slow work them one at a time towards the vent. Then i carefully work them out of the vent till i couldn't feel any more. Not the funnest thing to do, but we do what we have to for our beloved pets.

I don't know if I would rub them against each other...that could potentially...very slightly but maybe..have intestine in-between the pieces and hurt the snake internally.
Maybe, maybe not, likely not, but I wouldn't risk it. I just gently work them towards the vent. The first time I had to do this was for our rescued ball python, "Ribs". A huge urate ball. Huge! After this there was a huge...HUGE poo *lol*

Just the other day i was feeling around, and decided to "encourage" it again. A lot of smaller urate rocks came out, pee, and then the poop just followed. He is still recovering from being severely dehydrated. I mean, severely. I've just now gotten him to where there is no orange urates (poor kidneys!). I've been injecting the prey item with water, under the skin. I pick a smaller prey item, and them puff it up a LOT with water where it won't leak out. This has really helped with the other rescue. This one still has a lot of help needed! If any of these snakes, low metabolism, or not, have urate rocks, i would suggest "forcing" liquids. Can't hurt if it's in the food!

[marvelfreak]

ok so yeah... that was funny I read your post got him out of his soak started to rub his belly twards the cloaka and darn near shot my husband next to me with urates. The rest came out perfectly not sure if he will eat with all the attention and stress but Im gonna try cause he has lost a bit of weight thru that..
Thank you again for this post it has been most helpful :-)
Your welcome and that why i posted it was to help others. I still wish i had some one their so they could have video taped it. Glad it help!:)

Jaleely the reason i rub them together was to break them up so they would come out with out hurting or ripping her. The one that was blocking everything was huge. If i had try getting it out in one piece i would have hurt her without a doubt. That's the last thing i wanted. I do agree though if you try it early enough it can be done without breaking them up. I just wish i had heard about it months before.:)

[Skumbo]

heh. snake colonic. lool

[marvelfreak]

heh. snake colonic. lool
Just did it again today. This time with my Malaysian Female. She did really good until i was done and putting her back in her tub then she nail me. Juggernaut the big male Malaysian i just soaked and he went in the water on his own. I noticed the other day that is vent looked push out like he was going to poop on me. Then last night i noticed it was like that again. So i checked my records and neither one had pooped since October so i soaked them he went no problem. She needed a little help.

[CDN_Blood]

Wow...what has either eaten between these times? Any idea?

[SSSSnakes]

A friend of mine did this with his ETB and the Vet said he should not have done it, because he will hurt the snake. I have done this before and never had any issues. I'm glad you posted this, because it works. You just have to be gentle when doing it.

[marvelfreak]

Wow...what has either eaten between these times? Any idea?
They i just went threw my records and they both have only eaten 13 rat pups since i got them. They went from Jan 15 to Feb 29 without eating as my rat guy lost every thing and the pet store was out when i try to get some. On the Feb 29 they got two each and i now have 5 month worth of rats in my freezer. So back to one a week. :)
The little male Malaysian has eat 19 rat pups and poops about every 6 weeks.

[CDN_Blood]

They i just went threw my records and they both have only eaten 13 rat pups since i got them. They went from Jan 15 to Feb 29 without eating as my rat guy lost every thing and the pet store was out when i try to get some. On the Feb 29 they got two each and i now have 5 month worth of rats in my freezer. So back to one a week. :)
The little male Malaysian has eat 19 rat pups and poops about every 6 weeks.

Aaah, that's the ticket right there. Pump the little buggers right-up if they'll take more. Most baby Bloods don't really go anywhere until they're about 4 months old (when they shed their first skin) and even at that size they can hold a few of those per meal.

The brongs looked about that size in the video I saw, so I'd say they'd easily hold at least 4 per meal if they'll take them. I'd probably even go for 6 if the little monsters are up for it.

By the time they're about 10 months old they can *easily* hold a small rat or two, and with a couple of meals at that size they're up to large rats by a year old.

Here's what Bubbles was eating at each stage:

1-2 SM rats/meal
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/CDN_Blood/Bloods/Bubbles/file-19-1.jpg

1-2 LG rat/meal
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/CDN_Blood/Bloods/Bubbles/file-33.jpg

1 XL rat/meal
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/CDN_Blood/Bloods/Bubbles/file-19.jpg

You'd never have that problem again :)

[marvelfreak]

Now that they aren't backed up i think i am going to give them 3 maybe 4 if they are up to it this Friday.

[CDN_Blood]

Now that they aren't backed up i think i am going to give them 3 maybe 4 if they are up to it this Friday.

If they'll eat that many, I think you'll find it makes a huge difference and they'll stay nice 'n regular. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya :cool:

[marvelfreak]

If they'll eat that many, I think you'll find it makes a huge difference and they'll stay nice 'n regular. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya :cool:
Thanks Todd. I'll keep you updated.