Ball python won't eat!

[pythoncrazy]

One of my ball pythons would not eat tonight. Well he's used to eating regular adult mice and I actually got the small rats for him because it was the only thing I could find I got the lady to bring them to me along with two mature breeding females and a mature male. I thought small rats would be about the size of regular adult mice that's what she told me but it's not the case. Anyways he wouldn't eat it any time it got close to him he would act like he was going to strike and then turn around quickly. I'm thinking that the size of the rat intimidates him into not eating. I am expecting baby rats in two weeks and they should be the size of adult mice four weeks from now. Is it okay to wait until then to feed him? I know they can go months without eating. I won't not feed a snake that is willing to eat my female is in the same tank and he'll smell that she's eaten and i'll feel guilty D:

[infernalis]

Welcome

BP can go just fine without feeding for weeks, no problem.

Feeding live is risky but also a personal choice. Just make sure you supervise and never leave the rat in there if the snake does not take it, rats will bite the snake, it happens.

I feed mine small rats usually just a week or two pass weaned. They are just a bit bigger than a mouse at that point.

[alessia55]

My adult bp will not eat rats no matter the size. He does what you've described: "any time it got close to him he would act like he was going to strike and then turn around quickly". Even if I waited it out for several weeks, he'd never take it (and I've tried all the methods out there to switch from mice to rats). Anyway, hopefully yours will take it in due time. Best of luck (and welcome to the forums!!)

[spots]

He might just have a taste for mice only.
Careful with live!! I had a mouse poke his paw into my BP when spots had him coiled!!! I suggest knocking the feed item unconscious before feeding. Or use the severed cerebral method. To do this place a pencil behind the head well on table ect at the neck and pull the tail (hard) by the base. you will hear a pop/crack. And done. ( I haven't done this yet, but am going to try this Saturday.I have read all about it.) Or there's all ways carbon dioxide chamber for the rodent.

[pythoncrazy]

I tried again, and he ended up eating at 10:45 tonight. I still feel kind of guilty because this rat was twice his girth at it's widest point, and now he looks like a blimp. I know that power feeding is bad but what about feeding a young snake a rat that's twice the size of what it should eat only once every two weeks? Would this be okay? I would only need to do this one more time and then the new rats will be big enough for one good meal. And about feeding live it's a personal preference. I believe that pre-killed or F/T is unnatural and I want my snakes life to be as natural and enjoyable as possible. I understand that this can be dangerous and i'll usually just whack the rat on the side of the tank so it's stunned and doesn't know what's going on but the snake sees living moving prey and this is more exciting for the snake.

[mattchibi]

Feeding live is risky but also a personal choice. Just make sure you supervise and never leave the rat in there if the snake does not take it, rats will bite the snake, it happens.


IMO, I would only ever feed live if thats the only thing they will eat. But before I resort to this, I would try every method and research everything about switching to f/t. BP's tend to be more finicky about this issue than most snakes.

Also, keep in mind, the live rat/mouse can hurt your snake BEFORE your snake strikes & constricts, as well as AFTER he is being constricted. I have read too many reports of "my bp got bit by a rat when he was being constricted". It happens. It happens in the wild as well; however, its a risk Im not willing to ever take unless I get a ball that ABSOLUTELY wont eat f/t. And even so, I would get him feeding on live for a few weeks and then start pre-killing them, then you can start moving your way to f/t. :) Good luck

[alessia55]

I'm glad you managed to switch him over from mice to rats. A note about live feeding: My adult bp will ONLY eat live (my baby bp eats f/t)... I've never done the pencil method spots is talking about, but to make sure it does it no damage, I supervise every movement, and once he's striked and coiled, I hold the feet of the mouse so he doesn't scratch my snake in the struggle until I feel its pulse stop (heartbreaking, but my snake won't eat otherwise). Just be really careful with live feeding, it can really hurt your snake if you're not careful enough. If you can, try switching your bp over to f/t (it's cheaper too!). My baby bp switched over easily and all I have to do is the "zombie mouse dance" :p Anyway, good luck!

[Jenn_06]

dont know if anyone said this already (did not read the whole post) but you can get a mouse and rub it on the rat to get the scent on the rat your snake might take it i did that with my first BP and it took some time but i got him to switch over.

[Lankyrob]

A rat twice the size of the snake is fine for feeding, thats what i give my BP - however remember that a rat that size being fed live could also kill that snake before it gets a chance to eat it. :)

[Gungirl]

To switch my BP over to rats I had to feed him a small mouse then as he was getting the last bit into his mouth I put the rat face against it and he continues to eat. After a few times he started taking f/t rats no problem.

[alessia55]

To switch my BP over to rats I had to feed him a small mouse then as he was getting the last bit into his mouth I put the rat face against it and he continues to eat. After a few times he started taking f/t rats no problem.

This is a fantastic idea! I'm going to try this!!

[Valvaren]

Since no one asked already afaik i'm wondering if you are housing your two balls together for breeding or are they just together?

[Gungirl]

Since no one asked already afaik i'm wondering if you are housing your two balls together for breeding or are they just together?

Good catch... I didnt read the whole post...doh:O_o:

[spots]

To switch my BP over to rats I had to feed him a small mouse then as he was getting the last bit into his mouth I put the rat face against it and he continues to eat. After a few times he started taking f/t rats no problem.

I'll have to remember this for the future :)

[pythoncrazy]

Since no one asked already afaik i'm wondering if you are housing your two balls together for breeding or are they just together?

They will breed eventually but for now they are just together. My male is between six months and one year but probably closer to six months, and my female is almost one year and three months old so it'll be at least another year before she's ready to breed.

[pythoncrazy]

I'm glad you managed to switch him over from mice to rats. A note about live feeding: My adult bp will ONLY eat live (my baby bp eats f/t)... I've never done the pencil method spots is talking about, but to make sure it does it no damage, I supervise every movement, and once he's striked and coiled, I hold the feet of the mouse so he doesn't scratch my snake in the struggle until I feel its pulse stop (heartbreaking, but my snake won't eat otherwise). Just be really careful with live feeding, it can really hurt your snake if you're not careful enough. If you can, try switching your bp over to f/t (it's cheaper too!). My baby bp switched over easily and all I have to do is the "zombie mouse dance" :p Anyway, good luck!

Well my female will eat whatever she doesn't care if it's live, frozen, pre-killed, mouse rat gerbil whatever she'll eat anything. I've heard stories of people feeding their snake one gerbil and taking three months to take a mouse again but I fed her three gerbils before I traded the rest for some small rats and a breeding pair I still had two mice left and she took it no problem eating gerbils didn't affect her at all. My male i've had him for about a month and he's eaten live all his life, i've tried to feed him frozen and pre-killed and he won't take it. And well since he'll only eat live I want to be fair to my baby girl and feed her live too. Even with breeding rats frozen would be more cost effective because I could kill and freeze them when they get to the right size and not have to sell the ones that get too big. But at the same time selling them will pay for the food and bedding.

[Jenn_06]

They will breed eventually but for now they are just together. My male is between six months and one year but probably closer to six months, and my female is almost one year and three months old so it'll be at least another year before she's ready to breed.


i know someone is going to get to this before i do but you need to get a tub for the other BP, you can end up with a dead snake, the male might breed with the female and she can get egg bound because she is too small, if one snake is sick the other will get sick too,and having two snakes together is stressing them out.

[Valvaren]

I asked before if they had them together for breeder purposes or not and they never answered, but since you already told them i'm going to say I have to agree completely if you have them together just for the sake of having them together you have to separate them. They aren't friends or anything and they will end up hurting each other not only physically but through stress.

Edit, my apologies I didn't see that you had answered on the previous page on that note they are only recommended together when you are actually breeding, having them together like this especially when your female is small there are huge risks, please for the health and safety of your snakes separate them.

[pythoncrazy]

i know someone is going to get to this before i do but you need to get a tub for the other BP, you can end up with a dead snake, the male might breed with the female and she can get egg bound because she is too small, if one snake is sick the other will get sick too,and having two snakes together is stressing them out.

Provide a cooling-off period. In order to become fertile, a cooling-off period is required. The ambient air temperature AT NIGHT needs to be in the mid 70's (F) for a period of about a month. The warm spot in the cage AT NIGHT should be reduced to low to mide 80's(F), during the day temperatures should return to normal temperature in the high 80's(F). The idea is to replicate the weather conditions of winter in Central Africa. This short cool spell whispers sweet nothings into the brains of these beautiful creatures and tells them that Spring is coming and new life needs to be created. How to Successfully Breed Ball Pythons - wikiHow (http://www.wikihow.com/Successfully-Breed-Ball-Pythons)
Read this. You have to initiate breeding. They do not breed under their normal circumstances (heat, humidity, etc) that they are always kept in. They need the cooling-off period for the female to become fertile.

[pythoncrazy]

I asked before if they had them together for breeder purposes or not and they never answered, but since you already told them i'm going to say I have to agree completely if you have them together just for the sake of having them together you have to separate them. They aren't friends or anything and they will end up hurting each other not only physically but through stress.

Edit, my apologies I didn't see that you had answered on the previous page on that note they are only recommended together when you are actually breeding, having them together like this especially when your female is small there are huge risks, please for the health and safety of your snakes separate them.

Quote "I have two adult ball pythons housed together. I have them in a 75 gallon tank, but you can use a 55 gallon tank, and they are happier than ever. The thing that you have to do is make sure that before you put them together that they don't have mites, or that the cage doesn't have mites in it either. The only thing that you have to be sure of is that you don't combine different kinds of snakes (for example a boa and a python). And they also have to be around the same age/size, you never want to combine a baby and an adult." I feed them separately, never together. Also I read that weight is much more important than age and the male is not sexually mature until they are 700 grams. With the size he is now (two feet but he was eating hoppers before I got him he was malnourished) he won't be that size until next year and by that time my female will be ready. Plus you have to initiate breeding by the drop in night time temperatures.

[millertime89]

seriously, get them apart, or put a divider in the tank. Care for your snakes, and if you're not going to provide proper care, give them away.

[Gungirl]

Ditto what others are saying. Housing a 2 snakes together causes unneeded risk.

[infernalis]

Quote "I have two adult ball pythons housed together. I have them in a 75 gallon tank, but you can use a 55 gallon tank, and they are happier than ever. The thing that you have to do is make sure that before you put them together that they don't have mites, or that the cage doesn't have mites in it either. The only thing that you have to be sure of is that you don't combine different kinds of snakes (for example a boa and a python). And they also have to be around the same age/size, you never want to combine a baby and an adult." I feed them separately, never together. Also I read that weight is much more important than age and the male is not sexually mature until they are 700 grams. With the size he is now (two feet but he was eating hoppers before I got him he was malnourished) he won't be that size until next year and by that time my female will be ready. Plus you have to initiate breeding by the drop in night time temperatures.


I interpret that this is what you were told?

Anyways, if it is, the person who told you this is wrong. Royal Pythons are solitary creatures and will be stressed when kept together in a cage.

[Jenn_06]

sorry but not all care sheets are right, i know a few people from forums that did not have a cooling-off period and there snakes started to breed. talk with some breeders and not just one and see what they say about you keeping a male and female together.


and BP can eat another BP about the same size it has happened before.

[Jenn_06]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o284/joejenn06/cannibalisticroyals21zh3.jpg
found on the internet

[alessia55]

Ugh Jenn those photos are horrible! :( I keep both my bp's in separate enclosures for that very reason. I really hope the OP realizes that everyone here only means well and that we want the OP's ball pythons to get the care they need and deserve, and that he takes the advice he sees here seriously. Despite what care sheet you might read, it is evident on this forum that consensus is that the snakes need to be separated ASAP.

[millertime89]

^exactly alessia
separating can be as simple as placing an appropriately sized piece of wood in the center of the enclosure.

[Jenn_06]

Sorry Alessia i know its a horrible pic but some people just have to see it them self.

[Lankyrob]

At the end of the day if you are going to breed them then when the female is gravid you will have to separate them at that point anyway - so why take the risk now - just separate them now and put them together just for breeding.

Noone is having a go at YOU per se, just the advice that you have been given which is quite obviously worng as you can tell from the reaction it has gotten.

Please learn from others mistakes rather than making you own :)

[spots]

Wow the small of the 2 eat the bigger one!! CRAZY!!!!

[Wolfus_305]

Just to go back to the not eating thing: My BP stops eating between the beginning of January and the end of September each year, at first i was worried but then I realized it was normal for him. He's also a picky eater, he doesn't like if I thaw the rats in a bag, he would prefer a soaking wet rat... strange guy.

Best of luck!

[pythoncrazy]

The problem with that is that I only have one tank. Well that's not true I have a little ten gallon with fish I suppose I could drain it and put the fish into one of the bigger tanks that has fish about their same size. I was going to do that anyways but I was going to use it for my male rat to put him in just before my females have their babies. I have a 75 gallon tank made of wood but it's way too big for my ball python and i'm afraid that the rat would chew through it not to mention soil the wood. I had them in there the first couple days I had them and nothing happened but still. As soon as I get a job (should be within the week) i'll get another tank and separate them. Thanks for the advise, and I actually say that picture a few days ago allysia. Neither have ever shown any signs of aggression towards me or each other and I keep them very full I don't power feed but you know, I highly doubt that they would eat each other. Would they be alright until I can get another tank, heat pad, light, etc?

[Jenn_06]

you can go to walmart and get a tub for the snake they are just $4 and hold heat and humidity really good.

[infernalis]

I did not take any pictures, but not too long ago I had an accident where a pair of snakes (M+F) who were housed together.. The female swallowed her mate all the way down, a while later she regurgitated and the male crawled out still alive and (luckily) healthy.

For the record, anyone who missed that post, these were a pair of garter snakes, one of the only (of very few) "social" species of snakes.

The moral to the story is, no matter what, the risk is there.

[alessia55]

You could house them in the 75gal tank and put a divider in the middle of it until you can give them each their own tank.

[pythoncrazy]

You could house them in the 75gal tank and put a divider in the middle of it until you can give them each their own tank.

That could work, since I have to "doors" one on each side, idk how I would get a divider in there since the only two opening are about an eight inch square and the divider would have to be 2 x 2. Would a mix of peat moss and potting soil work? Cause that's what I have in there and I don't have any more coconut bark.

[Snakefood]

no, don't use potting soil. most of those actually have chemicals and fertilizers added. If your going to use soil, get a bag of the organic to use. may be more expensive, but safer for your snake.

[SPARTAN 77]

I just stick to mice, rats could injure the snake more than mice i think. but your snake should do fine without eating for a while. :)

[Snakefood]

I just stick to mice, rats could injure the snake more than mice i think. but your snake should do fine without eating for a while. :)


I don't think that is true at all. I have seen pics of what a mouse did to a BP, so obviously anything live, regardless of size is capable of killing a snake.

I have aslo HEARD (but have no experience as I feed FK or F/T exclusively) that rats are less likely to fight back (don't know why, or if it is even true) just something I heard said by someone who does occasionally feed live.

[SPARTAN 77]

I don't think that is true at all. I have seen pics of what a mouse did to a BP, so obviously anything live, regardless of size is capable of killing a snake.

I have aslo HEARD (but have no experience as I feed FK or F/T exclusively) that rats are less likely to fight back (don't know why, or if it is even true) just something I heard said by someone who does occasionally feed live.

hmm... that's interesting, if it is true, that's very surprising.

[Jenn_06]

dont mater what it is its going to fight for its life but Rats are better for your snakes i know alot of BP breeds that start the BP babies on rats and not mice.

[Snakefood]

well the only thing I can say is, I breed both mice and rats, and have bit far more often by mice!! although this is just my experience handling them. I would think both would fight for thier lives if they could!

[Snakefood]

dont mater what it is its going to fight for its life but Rats are better for your snakes i know alot of BP breeds that start the BP babies on rats and not mice.

Yes, but the reason given (IME) is so they don't have the problem of switching over later on when mice are not large enough prey. Have you ever had the reason given as agression levels of mice vs rats?? would be interesting to know!!

[Lankyrob]

An adult BP would need SOOOOO many mice to fill it up that it is much better to get them onto rats, F/T of course ;).

[Snakefood]

And, correct me if I am wrong, but BP's are big enough right out of the egg to take rat pinkies?? right??

[Jenn_06]

what i was told yes they can eat a rat pink right away.

[Snakefood]

Oh and I just wanted to comment on the OP's thought that BP's must be brumated to breed. I know a guy who breeds Bp's, every year without any type of induced brumation or lowered temps. His female successfuly lays fertile eggs EVERY SEASON without "inducing" breeding conditions.

[infernalis]

The OP is no longer with us. ;)

[Jenn_06]

What happend? we was just trying to help

[infernalis]

What happend? we was just trying to help


I know, and he went all mental on us here....

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-python-forum/88717-who-says-snakes-can-t-love.html

[mattchibi]

I know, and he went all mental on us here....

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-python-forum/88717-who-says-snakes-can-t-love.html

Seemed like he was much younger than he said. I cant really see a 20 year old getting mental like that, but then again there are some spoiled kids these days. He wont be happy when his bp gets mites or an RI or a feeder injury and cant come here to ask for help :/ I feel bad for snakes with bad owners

[infernalis]

Seemed like he was much younger than he said. I cant really see a 20 year old getting mental like that, but then again there are some spoiled kids these days. He wont be happy when his bp gets mites or an RI or a feeder injury and cant come here to ask for help :/ I feel bad for snakes with bad owners

I am impressed with the younger people who are in our forum family here.

We have some 13 year olds on this forum who seem very mature for thier ages.

Another good reason to have a zero tolerance to this sort of behaviour.

[youngster]

We have some 13 year olds on this forum who seem very mature for thier ages.

:):):):):)

[Lankyrob]

Dont think he meant you Youngster! :p :p (JOKE!!!!!! :):):) )

[mattchibi]

I am impressed with the younger people who are in our forum family here.

We have some 13 year olds on this forum who seem very mature for thier ages.

Another good reason to have a zero tolerance to this sort of behaviour.

I like our forum family here, although Im jusst a newbie for now. ^^

[Snakefood]

I agree, it's a nice community, and I'm glad that there is zero tolerance with this crap. A couple of other sites I'm on occasionally actually allow this sort of thing to happen all the time, yet if you DARE to even think of disagreeing with a mod or the owner, your banned for life!!

[millertime89]

I hate that ****, power hungry mods. I'm on another site that its no holds bared, we're attacking each other all the time, but we all know its in jest, but noobs are freaked out and get SUPER defensive. There are a few non-noobs that do that too.

[infernalis]

I hate that ****, power hungry mods. I'm on another site that its no holds bared, we're attacking each other all the time, but we all know its in jest, but noobs are freaked out and get SUPER defensive. There are a few non-noobs that do that too.

I certainly hope that was not directed at me.....

[millertime89]

I certainly hope that was not directed at me.....

did you read snakefood's post?
no wayne, it wasn't, chill, you're one of the better mods I've had experiences with. If you wanna see bad mods, venture on over to rx7club and do some digging, or maybe the no longer in existence v8rx7forum. Heck even miata.net and turbomiata are bad.

[infernalis]

did you read snakefood's post?
no wayne, it wasn't, chill, you're one of the better mods I've had experiences with. If you wanna see bad mods, venture on over to rx7club and do some digging, or maybe the no longer in existence v8rx7forum. Heck even miata.net and turbomiata are bad.

I know exactly what you are talking about ;)

RFUK has a few mods that think they are gods or something....

And yes I did read snakefoods post, I have posted open apologies on here before, and for nothing but allowing a hotheaded holier than thou member to remain on board for too long.

[millertime89]

I don't know how you could even have thought that was directed at you. I've got mod powers on another board and I've used the banhammer more swiftly than you seem to.

[infernalis]

I don't know how you could even have thought that was directed at you. I've got mod powers on another board and I've used the banhammer more swiftly than you seem to.

OK, I forgot the wink smiley.

I had even typed "Don't make me ban you" but then I wasn't sure if you knew I was joking, so I deleted that sentence before I posted.

Arguing/debating is fine, the buck stops at name calling and using methods to defeat the auto censor.

We had a guy show up and on his first day here was calling some of our most esteemed vets A-hole and what not, he was gone in a blink.

[millertime89]

ha ha
yellow text is what I've found most common for sarcasm on other forums, but I don't see too much sarcasm over here, its missed I think.

[Lankyrob]

This forum tends to use the smileys to show the mood of the post, i personally love sarcasm but is hard to express on line. A little :p or ;) helps it on its way tho.