ball python wounded

[spots]

Well I was feeding my 3 month old 24" 126 gram male ball python, the mouse ended up scratching the side of spots's neck leaving a 2mm hole in his skin (skin only, muscle seems to have no damage). It didn't seem to faze him as he ate the mouse. I will be taking him to vet tomorrow when they open. I was just wondering what i should do in the mean time.

there is no bleeding
i have removed all bark mulch
keeping temps at normal temp
washed wound with mild hand soap (sent free)

ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD DO?

THANKS

[infernalis]

Switch to F/T rats right away. ;)

Welcome.

[swiftskater1]

I agree with Wayne, But if you must feed live (Like my Burmese) Have your tongs ready, or a Long object, Because if the rat/mouse starts kicking and biting you have something to hold it back. Shoving a pencil in the mouth of the rat and letting him bite it usually works for me!

[marvelfreak]

You can use neosporin. It works great for helping snakes heal.

[lady_bug87]

You can use neosporin. It works great for helping snakes heal.


without anaesthetic right?

[infernalis]

without anaesthetic right?

Correct.

Just plain neosporin, not the pain relief kind.

[marvelfreak]

Correct.

Just plain neosporin, not the pain relief kind.
My bad i always forget to mention without pain reliever.

[spots]

So should I still take him to a vet? He is still very active, and the wound doesn't seem to bug him. Also does polysporin work the same as neosporin?

The next feeding will be dead. I own 1 other 3 year old female Ball python that i have never had a problem feeding live, but I guess luck has to run out some where tho eh!!

[ZARADOZIA]

So should I still take him to a vet? He is still very active, and the wound doesn't seem to bug him. Also does polysporin work the same as neosporin?

The next feeding will be dead. I own 1 other 3 year old female Ball python that i have never had a problem feeding live, but I guess luck has to run out some where tho eh!!


If the wound is only 2 mm just keep and eye on him, keep his enclosure clean and free of loose substrate. You can also buy betadine from the pharmacy and use a cotton ball to dab it on.

I have rehabbed snakes with a much larger injury than that. When is his next shed? Or how long has it been since he shed last?

[spots]

If the wound is only 2 mm just keep and eye on him, keep his enclosure clean and free of loose substrate. You can also buy betadine from the pharmacy and use a cotton ball to dab it on.

I have rehabbed snakes with a much larger injury than that. When is his next shed? Or how long has it been since he shed last?

He shed October 4th 2011, I have removed all the bark mulch and replaced with newspaper. the thing that makes me nervous is that the skin is folded in , and i can see the pink muscle inside.
But don't snakes shed more often when they have wounds?

[shaunyboy]

keep an eye on the wound also it would not hurt to use something iodine based to give it a clean

over here we have a product called " tamodine " which is an iodine based soulution

when feeding live you could always give the prey item a knock on the head to stun it before offering to your snake

switching to frozen thawed would take all the worry out the equasion mate

cheers shaun

[ZARADOZIA]

He shed October 4th 2011, I have removed all the bark mulch and replaced with newspaper. the thing that makes me nervous is that the skin is folded in , and i can see the pink muscle inside.

But don't snakes shed more often when they have wounds?



No, wounds don't make them shed more. They shed when they grow.

Don't worry that the skin is folded in a little bit, that is normal for a wound. They important thing is to keep him clean, fed, and watered until his next shed. I strongly recommend buying Betadine from the pharmacy. It is hospital grade antibacterial.

How often do you feed him now and how much? You (might) be able to increase his food intake to help assist his growth since he is still a juvenile.

[ZARADOZIA]

when feeding live you could always give the prey item a knock on the head to stun it before offering to your snake

switching to frozen thawed would take all the worry out the equasion mate

cheers shaun

100% correct. I prefer frozen/thawed myself.

[spots]

I feed him every 5-6 days mice weighing 26-30 grams. I going to try fresh kill mice next feeding.
I got a vet appointment to day in about a hour. I rather pay $75 then loose my snake.
Thanks every one

just a idea but can anyone give me a list of medical kit items I should have on hand for spots

[shaunyboy]

I feed him every 5-6 days mice weighing 26-30 grams. I going to try fresh kill mice next feeding.
I got a vet appointment to day in about a hour. I rather pay $75 then loose my snake.
Thanks every one

just a idea but can anyone give me a list of medical kit items I should have on hand for spots

theres actually a sticky on another forum i used to use titled...

your essential snake medical kit

it would be good to have one here

i pasted my post from the other forum onto here

my snake medical kit...

meds i carry...

f10
tamodine
baytril oral
vicks vapour rub
eucilptus oil
viscotears
manuka honey

equiptment i carry.....

magnifying glass
cotton buds
various tweezers
scalpel
nebuliser
syringes
needles
infant feeding tubes (for administering oral med's)


cheers shaun

[spots]

theres actually a sticky on another forum i used to use titled...

your essential snake medical kit

it would be good to have one here

my snake medical kit...

meds i carry...

f10
tamodine
baytril oral
vicks vapour rub
eucilptus oil
viscotears

equiptment i carry.....

magnifying glass
cotton buds
various tweezers
scalpel
nebuliser
syringes
needles
infant feeding tubes (for administering oral med's)


cheers shaun

is the forum RFUK? lol i used to use that one as well :)

Cheers
Jimi

[shaunyboy]

is the forum RFUK? lol i used to use that one as well :)

Cheers
Jimi

yes mate

i got sick of all the p*****g contests on there :yes:

cheers shaun

[spots]

HAHAHA, same here mate,

So I took spots to the vet and $114 later for a shot of Baytril (anti biotic), and Bedadine to apply twice a day for a week. Vet also try to get me to pay a additional $50 for a poo sample test for worms.
Now hoping for a fast recovery.

[spots]

This is a site i found for a medical kit to keep on hand
J'n'B Boas - The First Aid Kit (http://www.jnb-boas.co.uk/page20.htm)

[Jay]

No, wounds don't make them shed more. They shed when they grow.


I believe you are mistaken, I have research to back it up, I just need to locate it. I'm not having a go at you.

[ZARADOZIA]

I believe you are mistaken, I have research to back it up, I just need to locate it. I'm not having a go at you.
Please do, I would love to read the research on that. This is the first I have ever heard of it.

[Jay]

I'm driving myself wild looking, I know I have read it somewhere ....still looking.

[Jay]

I know there is more in depth research. I know this is only "eHow" but it will suffice, I'm still looking though...
How Often Does a Snake Shed? | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/info_8172161_snake-shed.html)

[Gungirl]

From my understanding Jay is right. When a snake gets hurt they will shed a little more often to help get rid of the issue. I have also read this in several places but am unable to find the links... ( I need more coffee!!!) If I find them I will post them asap

[spots]

I believe you are mistaken, I have research to back it up, I just need to locate it. I'm not having a go at you.

I thought i have read it some where as well. i was looking over some books i have on Balls and it was in this book Reptile keeper's guides Ball Pythons by R.D. Bartlett

[blindfireak40]

I feed him every 5-6 days mice weighing 26-30 grams. I going to try fresh kill mice next feeding.
I got a vet appointment to day in about a hour. I rather pay $75 then loose my snake.
Thanks every one

That makes you better than sooooooooooo many people who drive-by post here. Kudos for being able and willing to do what's necessary for the animal's well-being. :)

And I've heard as well that they tend to shed more often when injured. It makes sense when you think about it; we can replace just the little bit of skin (scabbing). For them to replace it, they must generate a whole new suit :)

[spots]

That makes you better than sooooooooooo many people who drive-by post here. Kudos for being able and willing to do what's necessary for the animal's well-being. :)

And I've heard as well that they tend to shed more often when injured. It makes sense when you think about it; we can replace just the little bit of skin (scabbing). For them to replace it, they must generate a whole new suit :)

Thanks mate , to be a pet owner I think you have to be a responsible one!!

[totheend]

No, wounds don't make them shed more. They shed when they grow.


Yes, they will shed more often if the skin is injured.

[ZARADOZIA]

I know there is more in depth research. I know this is only "eHow" but it will suffice, I'm still looking though...
How Often Does a Snake Shed? | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/info_8172161_snake-shed.html)

The only thing it doesn't clarify is how they make themselves able to shed more. Normally, they will consume more prey to shed more- i.e., they eat more so then they grow and can then heal by shedding.

Does any of the excerpts you guys have detail how and the cause of going into the shed cyle?

[Lankyrob]

From my understanding although they do shed when they grow this isnt the "cause" of the shed. I believe they can initiate teh shed sequence at any point when they need too and being injured is one of these cases.

When my baby corn escaped he managed to rip some scales of his back squeexing through the gap, he has shed the week previously and shed twice in about 20 days afterwards which left him with a non damaged skin.

[youngster]

No, wounds don't make them shed more.

Are you sure? I've heard from multiple reputable people that they do.

[totheend]

Yes, Rob is correct. Same as when they have mites.

[mykee]

Thats hy-larious! Your vet gave the snake a shot of Baytril for a flesh wound. Goes to show, a fool and his money are soon parted.
Some vets are as useless as nipples on a bull.
Polysporin would have sufficed.
To avoid this from happening again:
1. Pay attention when feeding!
2. Don't feed live.
3. If you must feed live, feed rats, they're less skittish thus less prone to biting.
4. Buy a book on the captive husbanDry of ball pythons and read it a dozen times; that's two amateur moves in less than a week. Your ball python is clearly the only one suffering from your inexperience.

[SSSSnakes]

No, wounds don't make them shed more. They shed when they grow.

Don't worry that the skin is folded in a little bit, that is normal for a wound. They important thing is to keep him clean, fed, and watered until his next shed. I strongly recommend buying Betadine from the pharmacy. It is hospital grade antibacterial.

How often do you feed him now and how much? You (might) be able to increase his food intake to help assist his growth since he is still a juvenile.

Wounds and parasites can make a snake shed more often. A snake can cause itself to go into a shed to fix problems.

[spots]

I was paying attention during feeding, it was when spots coiled that the mouse poked him with his paw. I wish I could feed rats, but here in Alberta RATS are illegal, as some how we are a rat free province? I was going to try F/T again after that feeding or a few. And yes I will admit that I didn't know what to do so vet trip was the best I could do. So yes vet probably ripped me off, but at least I'm will to take care of my snake. Again makee I'm not trying to fight with you

[millertime89]

if rats are illegal, you could also used appropriately sized gerbils, hamsters, and guinea pigs. Use short haired guinea pigs if you do. Size is roughly equivalent to that of rats from what I've seen.

[mykee]

Frozen rats are not illegal in Alberta.

[spots]

the reason I was feeding live, is spots wouldn't eat F/T, as the breeder I got him from was feeding live to him, I want to maker the switch tho

[Gungirl]

the reason I was feeding live, is spots wouldn't eat F/T, as the breeder I got him from was feeding live to him, I want to maker the switch tho

If you want to make the switch... dont offer live. Simple as that. Your snake will soon get hungry enough to eat what you give it. Its not going to let itself starve to death it will eat when it has to. All you need to do is offer correct size prey F/t and it will eventually eat. I waited my BP out 4 or 5 months before he would take F/t. Now he eats it like a champ with no issues

[spots]

If you want to make the switch... dont offer live. Simple as that. Your snake will soon get hungry enough to eat what you give it. Its not going to let itself starve to death it will eat when it has to. All you need to do is offer correct size prey F/t and it will eventually eat. I waited my BP out 4 or 5 months before he would take F/t. Now he eats it like a champ with no issues

Going to give it a try next week :) took hard lesson tho :( so the idea is wait him out. Got ya

[millertime89]

yeah, don't let him win, when you offer live because he won't take f/t, he wins.

[spots]

so should i be applying polysporin then? if so how often and for how long?

[ZARADOZIA]

This subject really has my curiosity going so I have contacted Dr. Fitzgerald, Dr. Hibbitts, Dr. Dixon, and Texas A&M Herpetology Society of Texas A&M and asked them. I should receive an answer back by Wednesday at the latest. It depends on the testing schedule and I didn't think to check that before I wrote them.

Just for the record, this has nothing to do with being right or wrong and everything to do with having factual scientific knowledge. I think it is a great subject that all of us should be well read in, at least I know that I need to be. (I love learning knew things)


Good morning Dr. Fitzgerald, Dr. Hibbitts, & Dr. Dixon
I am a member of a Herp forum, sSnakeSs.com (http://www.ssnakess.com), and our current discussion is about injured snakes and their shed cycles; so far, we are unable to find information that details how snakes are able to increase their shed cycles. Many of the forum members are self educated on reptile care and we rely on our communal knowledge to care for our reptiles because there are so few herp vets available to us. I have been doing research on this subject but have not been able to find exact information detailing how this is possible.

Scenario:
A snake is wounded and some of the skin and scales are missing.

Research states:
Snakes go into a shed cycle faster and more frequently to heal.

Research does not state:
What causes the snakes to go into shed cycle faster and more frequently. Normally a snake sheds because it has grown larger.

Main question:
What are the exact circumstances (scientifically speaking) that details how a snake is able to heal its injuries?

Specific questions:
Can snakes force themselves to grow faster so that they may heal by shedding?
Do snakes eat more so that they can grow and shed faster?
Can a snake shed without actually growing?
If a snake does not increase its food intake, will it still shed more frequently to heal? And if so, how is the snake able to shed more frequently without growing?

I thank you in advance for any information you can provide.






Bio's:
Dr. Lee A. Fitzgerald, Professor
Co-Director Applied Biodiversity Science
Faculty Curator of Amphibians and Reptiles
Texas Cooperative Wildlife Collection

Research focusing on...
Evolutionary ecology and conservation of reptiles and amphibians
Applied Biodiversity Science in the Neotropics


Dr. Toby J. Hibbitts
Curator of Amphibians and Reptiles
Texas Cooperative Wildlife Collection
Division of Amphibians and Reptiles

Research focusing on...
Sexual selection and evolutionary ecology
Natural History and conservation of Amphibians and Reptiles


Dr. James R. Dixon, Professor Emeritus
Curator Emeritus of Amphibians and Reptiles
Texas Cooperative Wildlife Collection

Research focusing on...
Systematics of amphibians and reptiles worldwide with emphasis on South America, Central America, Mexico, and USA

[Jay]

Lots of claims but lack of science. Thanks for taking your time and emailing, looking forward to their response.

[ZARADOZIA]

I forgot hat I had also contacted Mr. Franklin of University of Texas at Arlington. This is his reply to the letter posted above:



Good morning De Ann,

In my experience I have had various snakes for several year that exhibited what seemed to me as a similar shed cycle schedule.

I had one specimen of Boiga that shed every month for at least 7 years. It was healthy and never refused food.

Some would be more frequent than others but this is likely due to species differences and variances in physiology.

If you have found research that states they shed more frequently when injured then I would suspect a potential hormonal influence as a cause for triggering new epidermal growth.

Also do you have a citation for that research?

This could be tested. I’m not aware of anyone doing such work. However, it could possibly be tested by checking blood hormone levels post trauma and throughout the healing stage.

Trauma could be inflicted to the skin to monitor healing as another experiment although that would likely be too cruel to be necessary.

I doubt anyone is going to pursue either avenues of research anytime soon. I haven’t maintained several injured snakes of the same species, size, age, sex, etc (and all with similar injuries) to make any notable comparisons.

Over the years I’ve maintained a few snakes that were found injured from cars. I cannot say that I’ve noticed anything I would consider unusual about their healing.

Snakes heal in a fashion similar to many other vertebrates. The body’s immune and defense system both go to work to protect and heal the body not unlike our own.

The rate of healing of course is influenced by the animal’s physiology.

Sometimes scales are not re-grown, but the skin is.

I believe that the priority is a closing the wound and once the skin is healed my bet is that the scales are eventually replaced with successive shed cycles.

Anyhow I hope I’ve narrowed some of the gaps pertaining to understanding this topic.


Saludos,
Carl J. Franklin
Biological Curator
franklin@uta.edu

Amphibian and Reptile Diversity Research Center
The University of Texas at Arlington Dept. of Biology
Box 19498
501 South Nedderman. Rm 337
Arlington, Tx 76019
Tel: (817) 272-3615
Herpetology (http://biology.uta.edu/herpetology/)
Texas Turtles (http://www.Texasturtles.org)

[SSSSnakes]

I have dealt with snakes for over 30 years and have found that if a snake is shedding more than normal, it is a sign that it may have mites. A snake in the wild sheds off it's skin, leaving the mites behind, but in captivity the skin is left in the enclosure and the snake is re-infested with the mites. Then the snake goes into another shed very soon to try and remove the mites. I have seen this happen many times in my experience and when someone ask me why their snake is shedding so much, I ask them to check the snake for mites, which they usually find. Anyone who is dealing with snakes for a period of time and has not noticed this, is not very observant.

[Lankyrob]

I have also read/heard too many times that snakes will shed to clear mites/heal from very experienced keepers for it to be a coincidence, as well as my own experience with my escapee.

[ZARADOZIA]

No worries, I'm not trying to change any ones opinion.

Some people base their conclusions on how they interpret personal experiences. Nothing wrong with that.

Some make conclusions based on scientific studies that have controls and rigorous observation and data collection. This is me.

I’m just providing information from Scientists so everyone can make their own educated conclusions.

[Jay]

The fact is snakes do shed more often while injured. Have any others gotten back to you?

[Jay]

Has any others emailed you back?

[spots]

Well I would seem to have living prof as Spots last shed before the wound was October 3, 2011. He has just shed last night. Making it 17 days between shed's, and 5 days after injury.
But ZARADOZIA I would like to know any info you have gotten back please.
I like to learn, both through fact, and experience.

[Lankyrob]

To do an "official" study as to how injury affects shedding then they would have to deliberately injure snakes to see the reaction - i cant see anyone doing that just to test a theory.

[Snakefood]

Well I cant see any of US doing that to test a theory, however researchers injure animals all the time to test theories.

[ZARADOZIA]

So far I haven't heard back. I will be contacting them again this coming week because I would like to know their take on this. I'm going to contact my collegues at Del Mar also, should have done that the first time, but my brain doesn't always think properly...lol

[totheend]

Scientific study? : I have been keeping reptiles for over 20 years....and yep, they shed more often when injured. It is how they heal the wound.

[KORBIN5895]

Scalpel? May I ask what for? I thought I was the only crazy that would use something like that on an animal.