help ID corn morph

[Snakefood]

So one of my snakefood customers, who only does pythons and boa's had a pair of corns dropped off to him and he dropped them off to me!!! The one big one I know is an Amel, but this one I am not sure what it is. Any help would be appreciated!!

it has quite a bit of yellow on it's head and neck, and the ventral pic is not very good. The checkering is solid the whole length of the ventral.

14897

14898

14899

[youngster]

Looks like you've got yourself a nice anery.

[Snakefood]

the pics on the net I can find of Anery A's have a pigmented background on the ventral, but the snakes checkers are on a white background. So I wonder if that would say it's not. This snake just doesn't look like the Anery B's I have found.

The closest I can find on Ian's Viv morph chart is maybe the Ultra-Amel Anery?????

Ultramel Anery Corn Snake - Ians Vivarium (http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/ultramel_anery/)

[youngster]

Not all anerys have a brown colored ventral. Many have pure white behind the checkers.

[Snakefood]

ahhhh, I didn't know that!!

I may keep this one, not sure about the second one though, I already have an Amel.

[youngster]

Wish I lived in BC! :)

[blindfireak40]

I'm with Eli on this one. Definitely an Anery...an Anery with some INCREDIBLE expression of the yellow, for sure, but an anery nonetheless :)

My money's on a male, too...could set up a snow project with your Amel :)

[Snakefood]

well the story I got from my customer was this.

this is a male/female pair who have been co-habbed for the whole time this lady has had them (person who dropped them off) she said the female has laid a clutch of infertile eggs.

That's it!! That's all I have on these new arrivals!!

this one's tail end narrows very quickly from the cloaca so I'm actually thinking this would be the girl. The Amel this one came with is huge, bigger than my 3 yr old Amel and has a thick head and neck. I am expecting company soon,so I'll get you guys pics of him later tonight.

My customer said he thinks the amel is the male and this one the female, but I don't know what he's going by.

So if this new Amel is the male, then that would give me 2 male amels, so I would end up selling this new one.

They are both separated into thier own tubs now, in quarantine in my bathroom!!

[blindfireak40]

Well, if the Anery is the Female, then you could DEFINITELY get a Snow program set up! :yes:

And maybe eventually start outcrossing with Khuno and get some Charcoal Snows (Anery Blizzards) goin' on! :)

[Snakefood]

Definately something to think on!!

[Snakefood]

ok, I got a spare moment to go give a quick check to the new amel. He is large, will get lenght and girth later, but big!!

14901

14902

14903

14904

[millertime89]

WOW, that's a big boy!

[Snakefood]

how old would you figure a boy that size would be?? he's quite some bit bigger than my male amel 3yr old!

[youngster]

He doesn't seem incredibly huge to me. My 2 year old is probably just a little smaller

[Snakefood]

my male amel, Helios, is 3 yrs (4 next summer) he is 43" long and I haven't gotton my dig scales yet so I don't have a weight.

This new Amel seems quite a bit longer (will get a measurement later) and alot thicker than Helios is. Much heavier also. His head and neck are shaped like helios, but much larger. I'll have to grab one out to compare to this new snake, but I think he'll be taking jumbo mice.

[blindfireak40]

He doesn't seem incredibly huge to me. My 2 year old is probably just a little smaller

Just remember, there's a lack of much in the way of reference, at least aside from her hands. Reference is EVERYTHING when it comes to pictures...if you want an example, I'll P.M. you the picture of the 10 foot garter snake I relocated :).

[youngster]

Hahah good point. My guy is just taking adult mice no jumbos for him.

[Snakefood]

I'm going to try to find a decent priced dig scale tonight when we go into to town. Then I can get weights on all my snakes.

Sean, your right about the snows, which will start me onto my coral snows. So I'll keep both amels for now, so I don't have to breed clutch-mates together, rather it would be half-siblings.

The only problem is the Anery has laid a clutch of infertile eggs, but I have no info on whether they actually looked into the eggs to see if the babies were dead, or if no-one pipped by the time that was expected so they were just trashed.

It certainly didn't sound like this lady knew what she was doing at all, nor did she do any research before putting male to female.

From what I can tell from talking to you good folk, and my own research as well as the 2 breeders that are helping me with my projects locally, is that one infertile clutch does not make an infertile female. It could be the male, it could be the female, it could be the stress of them being co-habbed for a long time (including breeding and egg laying), it could have been improper incubation, or it could have been that these eggs took far longer to incubate than what this lady was told, and so they gave up on them and ditched the snakes. It could also be the female wasn't quite ready for breeding (she is far smaller than my 2 yr old female)

Anybody throw in thier 2 cents here, tell me if I'm wrong, or add other reasons for a first clutch to come out infertile/not hatch.

[Lankyrob]

From what i have read everything you said about the clutch is possible. Have heard of people have multiple fertile clutches then one all slugs then back to normal clutches again - the conditions they were in were far from ideal so that is most likely the readon.

[blindfireak40]

Remember too that fertile eggs and infertile eggs look A LOT different, and that snakes can lay an entire clutch of unfertilized eggs. My guess is that there were never babies in the eggs, it was just a clutch of slugs. This would be roughly equivalent to the human menses; there is everything the female needs to make a baby, but no male ingredient, so they were just excreted as is.

There is absolutely not reason (from anything I've heard) to discount the female as a breeder, ESPECIALLY given her small size. I'd give her another year (maybe 2), and try again :)

I eagerly await your first clutches! :)

[Snakefood]

I have to take her into Khuno's breeder for a check in. She's very knowledgable about breeding corns and is willing to help me as the morph's I am after, she is not interested in.

Tonight, I will also get both wieght (if I find the scale) and length. Since I don't know her age, she will have to be long enough and heavy enough before breeding (the 3-3-3 rule) I doubt she would be ready for the coming season.

My Okeetee female is 3' and 3 years (next spring), so she'll be ready for this coming season. I want to keep a female from her clutch who will be het amel.

[Snakefood]

ok measured but not yet weighed!!!

The Anery female is actually 3' long. although she seems so small!!

The Amel male is 4'4" long, big boy!!

Didn't find a scale today, but will be looking again tomorrow. Keeped tuned for weights!!

[youngster]

I need to measure my guys... I'll do that Monday I wonder how big they are

[Snakefood]

probably longer than you think!! measuring them always surprises me!!