PVC Enclosure - How to heat it

[mattchibi]

Here are some pictures of the PVC enclosure I am about to buy for my BP. They are made by All Reptiles in Toronto, Canada. I plan on going to check them out before buying one. Has anyone dealt with these guys before, and if not, what are some important things I need to be looking for when it comes to plastic snake cages?

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2081/enclosurepvc1.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/215/enclosurepvc4.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1251/enclosurepvc3.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3521/enclosurepvc2.jpg

They said that they use these tanks in their own store and use flexwatt underneath to heat them. Do these seem like good cages to you guys?

My friend bought a colombian pastel from there, healthy as can be, so I trust them a little already. Just thought that buying an enclosure might be smarter for now, until I am more familiar with snakes.

Right now my female BP is in a regular 20 gal glass, Im thinking of moving her within the next 3-4 months into a 48 Long x 24 Wide x 12 Deep PVC enclosure. She is very small for her age, 3 years old and 30 inches.

Is that size of an enclosure too big for her? I saw this guys enclosure and I wanted something similar. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/enclosure-reptile-room-showcase/85773-my-enclosure.html I think 48 x 12 x 12 might be better since shes probably not going to get too much bigger..

Heres a link to the store im buying it from: All Reptiles (http://www.allreptiles.ca/PVC_Enclosures.html)

Since heat lamps arent an option, I plan on getting a radiant heat panel to control air temps and to have a flexwatt as a hot spot. Is this a viable idea for such a big space ?

[lady_bug87]

I saw those guys at the expo last month, they seem legit the guy I talked to said he used UTH pads with spacers (he stacked them like you have in the picture) I thought about getting one for my Colombian but I may make it instead

[mattchibi]

What changed your mind ? Other than the fact that it would be a little cheaper to build it yourself.

[lady_bug87]

What changed your mind ? Other than the fact that it would be a little cheaper to build it yourself.

I wanted to incorporate a water tub by adding a refurbished sink (like a bathroom sink) which would be set into the bottom of the viv with descending pipe and valve for easy draining so she would have something big and deep to soak in. essentially I would build a cabinet and then cover the top and add in the sink raised enough so that the substrate would not slip into the water easily then in cabinet i would leave the pipe exposed with the business end in a 5L pail. I would add doors to conceal the plumbing then build the viv around the sink making sure the sink is sealed with calking it'll probably be a huge tank but she will be 9ft long :P

[Jenn_06]

i have PVC cages almost like those and just use flexwatt (love them) and i know a few people up north that use those cages you have there and they like them.

[mykee]

2 X 4 is toooooooo big for a ball python.

[Gungirl]

2 X 4 is toooooooo big for a ball python.

I get that they like to hide and be in smaller spaces..I have my ball whom is 30" long and just over a year old right now in a 4ft x 2ft x 18" viv with a lot of ground cover and hides. He is doing great ( maybe im lucky) What size would you suggest putting a full grown ball in? If I can down size him and use this viv for something else I am game!

[mattchibi]

I get that they like to hide and be in smaller spaces..I have my ball whom is 30" long and just over a year old right now in a 4ft x 2ft x 18" viv with a lot of ground cover and hides. He is doing great ( maybe im lucky) What size would you suggest putting a full grown ball in? If I can down size him and use this viv for something else I am game!

Yes I am interested in this as well. What is the largest (but still efficient) size tank that I could put my bp in? Ive seen a few people now who house their bps in 4' x 2'. What about if I built a 4' x 1' x 1', like a longer version of the 20 gal glass tanks?

Also gungirl, Im curious as to how youre heating your enclosure. Just in case I decide to get something with similar dimensions. Thanks :)

[Gungirl]

Yes I am interested in this as well. What is the largest (but still efficient) size tank that I could put my bp in? Ive seen a few people now who house their bps in 4' x 2'. What about if I built a 4' x 1' x 1', like a longer version of the 20 gal glass tanks?

Also gungirl, Im curious as to how youre heating your enclosure. Just in case I decide to get something with similar dimensions. Thanks :)

You can look at my enclosure here: http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/enclosure-reptile-room-showcase/88383-building-another-1-thought-i-would-share.html

I use a single piece of 11" flex watt on his hot side and then a Radiant heat panel for ambient temp. He has always had great temps and humidity with no issues at all.

[Lankyrob]

My BP is also in a 4x2x2 viv, has been since we got him as a hatchling, provding plenty of ground cover and he is fine - eats fine, sheds fine, poops fine, comes out and explores when he wants - all fine! :)

[mattchibi]

Thanks so much you guys! Both of the last posts helped me alot.

Just purchased a pvc enclosure from All Reptiles, looks like this: (Dimensions are 4 x 2 x 1)

It smells a bit tho, of something glue-ish or rubber, so im going to keep the glass open and let it air out for a week. I dont plan on putting my bp in until I order the RHP or flexwatt. Im pretty convinced if I make a setup like Clementine (where she has the option to bask), then the RHP would be the way to go.

Height wise, its a small enclosure, only 12" high. If I placed the RHP at the top of the right side, and offered it a raised basking spot, is there any risk of my BP touching the RHP and getting burned ?

ALSO: How would I light up this enclosure for better viewing ? Its pretty dark right now . My options seem to be: a) RHP for hotspot & to control ambient temps (apparently this works alone), b) 4" flexwatt to control hotspot & RHP to control ambient temps, c) 4" flexwatt hotspot & bulb to control ambient temps ?

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2081/enclosurepvc1.jpg

[Nismo89]

It really all depends on the temperature of the room the snake will be in. In my enclosures I can get away with only using UTH and my ambient temps are just fine because my snake room never drops below 76 deg. F. If it gets chilly in your house I'd def recommend a RHP because with bulbs you'll have to replace it every so often when it burns out/stops working which is not a case with a RHP

[millertime89]

that's a boaphile right?
I too would recommend a RHP or UTH, I use the UTH and my ambient temps are fine as well.

[Lankyrob]

In terms of lighting stick on led strips are good as they dont emit heat

[mattchibi]

It looks exactly like a boaphile but its made by people here in Toronto. I thought I'd give them some business and support since theyre one of the only reptile stores left in Toronto (I actually dont know any others), and since the enclosure looked legit.

I think I might give up on establishing a Lighting source in there for better viewing, just because ambient room lights will probably be sufficient. & I dont wanna drill more holes in my new enclosure.

In terms of heating sources, I plan to get a Pro-products Radiant Heat Panel for now. I am awaiting their reply on a recommendation for what size heat panel to get for my enclosure. After I try out that RHP, if ambient temps are good, I dont need to worry. If not, then I may decide to put some flexwatt underneath for belly heat and use the RHP for ambient temps.

edit: Rob, can you clarify on LED strips? where would I get them? And do you have to plug them in ? Thanks for all the help btw ^^ I know im a bit fussy since shes my first snake.

[millertime89]

like this
LED Flexible Strip Light at Menards (http://menards.com/main/lighting-fans/indoor-lights/accent-lights/led-flexible-strip-light/p-1656093-c-6349.htm)
you can wire in a battery pack or plug it in

what are the prices on the pro-products RHPs like?

[marvelfreak]

I use this only 8 inch ones and they work perfect.
Walmart.com: Lights of America 24" Under-Cabinet Light, White: Decor (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lights-of-America-24-Under-Cabinet-Light-White/17163528)

[Gungirl]

My RPH is a Reptile basics 40watt and in my viv it works great. What ever you use just make sure its on a thermostat and you wont have an issue with burning your snake.

[mattchibi]

like this
LED Flexible Strip Light at Menards (http://menards.com/main/lighting-fans/indoor-lights/accent-lights/led-flexible-strip-light/p-1656093-c-6349.htm)
you can wire in a battery pack or plug it in

what are the prices on the pro-products RHPs like?

Here is what they wrote back to me:

Matt,



You will not need any other heater, our Pro Heat panel will provide all of the heat necessary for your cage and will not pose any risk as many other radiant panels and undertank heaters do.



I would strongly warn you not to use heat tape (flexwatt or Flexel) as neither of these products are UL or CE listed for this purpose, both have a long history of shorting out and causing fires and even the manufactures specifically state their products should not be used with plastic or wooden cages. They pose a real potential as a fire hazard and using these products can have catastrophic results. Despite many confirmed fires caused by these and other heating products, most people in our industry don't seem to care until it is too late. You should make sure that whatever you end up using is UL listed specifically for the purpose you are going to use it for and not that it may be listed for a different type of use or not UL listed at all. That is the only way you will be assured that the product has been tested and certified safe for a particular use.



For the cage you describe with the specifications given and a room temperature that will not get down below 70 degrees, I would recommend our Pro Heat model PH-115, 55 watt, 188 BTU/h, 12" x 15" radiant panel. It will be able to create a variable basking area and gradual gradient across the cage. Our panels can be controlled with any brand of thermostat to create a desired temperature range. Pro Heat radiant panels are the only panels sold that can be mounted directly to the inside top of the cage against any surface without any risk of damaging the material or ever causing a fire. The cost of the model PH-115 is $89.95 + $12.95 S&H to the lower 48.

So $89.95 + Shipping is the price for their 55 watt 12" by 15" radiant panel

Also if you read the second paragraph, they strongly advise against using flexwatt lol, however, doesnt like 80% of herpers use flexwatt nowadays?

[marvelfreak]

A lot of people use flexwatt because it's cheap and you can use one thermostat to control the temp in several cages.

For one cage a radiant panel would work just find and you wouldn't need any other heat source. But like with any heat device you should always use a thermostat.

[Lankyrob]

In an ideal world i would use boaphile cages and RHP's but the costs can be prohibitive.

[millertime89]

In an ideal world i would use boaphile cages and RHP's but the costs can be prohibitive.

no joke, vivs and heating can add up FAST! That's why I'm looking at building my own enclosures at least.

[ZARADOZIA]

I wanted to incorporate a water tub by adding a refurbished sink (like a bathroom sink) which would be set into the bottom of the viv with descending pipe and valve for easy draining so she would have something big and deep to soak in. essentially I would build a cabinet and then cover the top and add in the sink raised enough so that the substrate would not slip into the water easily then in cabinet i would leave the pipe exposed with the business end in a 5L pail. I would add doors to conceal the plumbing then build the viv around the sink making sure the sink is sealed with calking it'll probably be a huge tank but she will be 9ft long :P

This is a fabulous idea! Thanks for sharing it!

[lady_bug87]

This is a fabulous idea! Thanks for sharing it!

thank you, my dad is a plumber (well actually he's a plumber, turned engineer, turned sprinkler contractor) so the pipe and sinks and stuff will be more or less free

[bbb13]

It looks exactly like a boaphile but its made by people here in Toronto. I thought I'd give them some business and support since theyre one of the only reptile stores left in Toronto (I actually dont know any others), and since the enclosure looked legit.

I think I might give up on establishing a Lighting source in there for better viewing, just because ambient room lights will probably be sufficient. & I dont wanna drill more holes in my new enclosure.

In terms of heating sources, I plan to get a Pro-products Radiant Heat Panel for now. I am awaiting their reply on a recommendation for what size heat panel to get for my enclosure. After I try out that RHP, if ambient temps are good, I dont need to worry. If not, then I may decide to put some flexwatt underneath for belly heat and use the RHP for ambient temps.

edit: Rob, can you clarify on LED strips? where would I get them? And do you have to plug them in ? Thanks for all the help btw ^^ I know im a bit fussy since shes my first snake.
Hey is Managerie Pets on Parliment St in T.O still open?

[bbb13]

For those of you that use PVC, is it true that it holds odours after awhile? I've been told that HDPE and ABS is a better but more expensive plastic, to clean and stay odour free.:hmm: