Het for PieBald to Normal?

[swiftskater1]

Im thinking about getting a female PieBald at the expo next month. My spending limit is $600. So idk if i will be able to get a female for that price. But i will be able to get a Het for PieBald. So what would happen if i bred a Het for piebald to a normal? Any chance of getting any Piebalds?

[youngster]

Nada, you'll just get hets and normals. So you'll have to sell all of them as possible hets which will be no good.

[swiftskater1]

Alrighty. Thanks, looks like ill try to bump that spending limit up. haha

[Snakefood]

I don't know what kind of room you have, but if you can find a normal pair, het for piebald to breed together, then you "should" get about 1 in 4 piebalds.

Here in western Canada, male visual piebalds don't come any cheaper than $800, females are well over $1000, however, I can get a pair of normals het for piebald for $450, out of which I would get the visual piebalds once I bred them.

[swiftskater1]

When im buying het for PieBald, Or anything Het. Im always worried they are not going to be 100% het. or even Het at all :/ Thats my only concern!

[Snakefood]

you have to find a great breeder, the one I am going through only sells visual hets as hets, everyone else is sold as normal, even if they are 100% het. On visual hets the ventral tail end has a slightly different pattern than normals.

I believe he was 100% honest with me because he said if I buy off him once my rack system is done, he would offer a written gaurantee that if I don't get visual piebalds within 2 clutches, he will replace my pair with a visual piebald pair. So with a written enforcable gaurantee, I can feel comfortable that he is on the up and up.

Find the piebald breeders in your area, go see them, look at what they have and ask about "visual hets", the experienced breeders will know what your talking about and it's actually a really interesting conversation. And, you get to handle a bunch of thier snakes, which always rocks!!

[stephanbakir]

Keep in mind that het pieds SOMETIMES have whats called a "ringer" which is generally a "tell", looking at the babies you might be able to tell which is het pied and breed that one back to the parent or another het pied to prove it out.

[swiftskater1]

Alright guys thanks. How much do you think a pair of sub adult Het for PieBald would cost me? Expo Price?

[Snakefood]

ahh, sorry can't really say, I'm in a different country and the pair I am getting for $450 are 2010 babies.

[stephanbakir]

I saw a trio on RC that sold for 175 ea.

[swiftskater1]

RC? Hopefully i will be able to afford Breeding sized :/ Really wanted to breed this season.

[stephanbakir]

Reptiles canada, duno what prices are in the states.

[Snakefood]

ya your talking to a bunch of Canadians here so state-side supply and price are our of our ken.

HOWEVER, google local BP breeders in your area, contact them to see if they have piebalds/piebald hets. And ask them if they will be at the next local show!

[youngster]

Het Pied adult females are gonna be very pricey. Upwards of $300 USD

[swiftskater1]

Alright, Better then i thought. Im getting very excited!!

[Nismo89]

At the recent expo I went to a guy had a 100% proven het female pied for $200 but they were babies.

[infernalis]

When im buying het for PieBald, Or anything Het. Im always worried they are not going to be 100% het. or even Het at all :/ Thats my only concern!


This is correct, at a show, many times it's a first meet last meet, so it's a dice roll.

Buy from a well known breeder who has a reputation to worry about, and you will get your hets.

Show merchants will say almost anything to close a sale... "I'm only watching the table for a guy" "He said these snakes are awesome" "They eat good" or whatever it takes.

[swiftskater1]

Would it be better just to breed my Male normal ball with a Female PieBald? Im just concerned about buying Hets.

[youngster]

Normal to pied will just give you hets and nothing else.

[swiftskater1]

Yup, Just thought about that. I got some thinking to do!

[Aaron_S]

I think you shouldn't worry about this season and focus on next season. Ensure you have these new snakes quarantined and healthy and ready to go for next season. You can then stay within a reasonable allowance by buying yearlings or ones that just can't be bred this season.

In all honesty, I don't see anyone selling a het for pied female ready to breed this year with the season already upon us.

[blindfireak40]

Normal to pied will just give you hets and nothing else.

Note that if you don't mind waiting another generation, this ISN'T A BAD THING!! Because you know for sure that the babies are ALL het Pied. This means that you'll probably get at least a little bit of money out of them if you need to sell some, and you can then line-breed (either with sibs or mom) to get visuals once the hets reach maturity. Just a thought :)

[Snakefood]

^^^^^^^^^
what he said.

If you breed a normal to a pied, and keep a baby of the opposite sex to your piebald, then in 2-3 years (depending on whether the het is male or female) you breed the baby back to the pied parent and you will get pieds in the clutch.

Really you have 2 choices here, you can spend the TIME or the MONEY to get your pied breeding pair!!

[swiftskater1]

Okay guys, the expo is Nov 5th. I'm going to try to ask for more hours at work. Wish me luck.

[mykee]

"On visual hets the ventral tail end has a slightly different pattern than normals."
Wrong.
There is no such thing as a "visual het piebald".
I've produced dozens of het pieds and what many people call a "visual het marker" is only seen on about 50% of my HET pieds.
Don't believe the hype.

[Snakefood]

Wrong.
There is no such thing as a "visual het piebald".
I've produced dozens of het pieds and what many people call a "visual het marker" is only seen on about 50% of my HET pieds.
Don't believe the hype.

Possibly, I really don't know enough about the visual het thing to agree or disagree, but in my particular case, he showed me the differences, and will give a written gaurantee that they are a het pair and will produce pieds within 2 clutches, if they do not he will replace them with a piebald pair (albeit babies, so I would be set back) He is also a very reputable breeder out here, and so I'm not too worried;)

[Nismo89]

As you'd be just starting out I recommend staying away from piers or gets for now. Try and produce some more simple morphs for now make a name for yourself and then when you have a good rep and experience take the jump into hets. Thats actually why I decided not to buy any hets at the expo I was recently at. On a side note I got my male from a not so well known guy but he was extremely helpful and he sent me an e-mail with all the records just as promised. Like Wayne said though be weary there are a lot of just salesman there that are in it just for the money.

[Snakefood]

I'm pretty much a cautious person to begin with, and am not one to believe much from a stranger.

Mykee, correct me if I'm wrong, but what I took from your post is that the visual het does mean het, just not all of them get the visual??

Have you had one with those "het markings" NOT be het?

[mykee]

No, what I meant to say is that the supposed "visual het marker" for a piebald is a clear belly with tons of speckling around it. That is the only supposed "visual het marker" that I am aware of and I've been in this game for a long time.
From a group of say 40 het pieds, roughly 50% of them had this "visual het marker" and the other 50% did not.
I will also add that I have a bunch of animals that I know for a fact have no pied in them that also have this "visual het pied marker".

[Snakefood]

ahh, ok. So my next question is: when a piebald is bred to a normal, do all the babies come out 100% het?

I understand cornsnake genetics, but I don't know if the same rules apply to BP's.

[blindfireak40]

ahh, ok. So my next question is: when a piebald is bred to a normal, do all the babies come out 100% het?

I understand cornsnake genetics, but I don't know if the same rules apply to BP's.

There are general rules that govern heritability. Anything that applies to simple recessive (Anery, Diffused, Lavender, etc.) corn genes applies to simple recessive ball genes. Pieds are (to my knowledge) simple recessive, so a Pied to a normal should result in 100 percent het pied. If I'm wrong, I'm sure Mykee'll straighten me out :)

[youngster]

Yes all of them will be het.