General BP Behaviour

[mattchibi]

Since Ive only had my BP since Sunday, Im still not really accustomed to their behaviours and habits.

For the first day or two, i only had one hide and a water bowl to keep it simple. And she never came out once when I was around, although my parents said they saw her coming out once during the day to look around.

After reading on this site, I got a second hide on the cooler side, and after this, i noticed at night when it was awake, it has been more likely to come out of its hide. but even when it does, last night for example i woke up at 4 am, to see Morticia moving around poking her head up as close to the screen top as she could get.

The only few other times i saw her come out of her hide, she was pretty much trying to escape, or i guess she may have been examining her new environment.

For the most part though, between 9 AM and 9 PM i will never see her at all, she stays in the far corner of her hide on the warm side and never comes out. During the night time, i havent really been able to track when she comes out and for how long, but it would be nice to see them a little more active.

I guess if i improved the environment a little (taking out the heat lamp soon, when my thermostat and uth comes) and changed my aspen bedding to coco husks, she might be more inclined to come out of her hide. I have also taped pictures up on 3 sides of the glass tank so she can only see thru the front.

im not exactly "worried" about her, just wanted to make sure this was typical behaviour for a 3 yr old ball python.

[youngster]

Completely typical. She'll probably try to find a way out for like a week and then once she's convinced there's no way out she'll chill out.

[mattchibi]

Completely typical. She'll probably try to find a way out for like a week and then once she's convinced there's no way out she'll chill out.

^^ exactly what i wanted to hear

[TeaNinja]

when i first got my bp he did abunch of weird stuff. he was exploring the cage kind of wobbling around, then he was trying to climb on things and slipping off clumbsily. i thought he had a neurological issue for a day or two until i realized he was just exploring dumbly lol. comparitively, bp's are pretty clumbsy. also they are pretty skiddish and head shy compared to other snakes.

[youngster]

There's a tiny ledge at the top of the enclosure and my corn likes to climb in it, needless to say he fell down a few times :P

[brylecc1989]

Lol i've seen my king snake and BRB doing acrobatics trying to climb/escape. They're quite resilient. lol

[mattchibi]

when i first got my bp he did abunch of weird stuff. he was exploring the cage kind of wobbling around, then he was trying to climb on things and slipping off clumbsily. i thought he had a neurological issue for a day or two until i realized he was just exploring dumbly lol. comparitively, bp's are pretty clumbsy. also they are pretty skiddish and head shy compared to other snakes.

Hahaha i was thinking she might have a neurological issue as well, i guess shes just getting used to her new home : ) cant wait till sunday when i can finally take her out and play with her.

Last night she came out for a bit to drink some water, and i watched her for a good 5-10 minutes. i thought she could obviously see me as i was sitting calmly and peering into the glass. she turns her head and then actually sees me, then proceeds to bolt into her hide immediately.

it was kind of dissappointing but i totally understand the reason shes being shy right now : p

[youngster]

cant wait till sunday when i can finally take her out and play with her.

I know the feeling :D

[TeaNinja]

sometimes i will come home after being gone for hours and my bp will be out in the tank exploring. he'll see me and high tail it back to a hide lol. he used to be super skiddish and breathe hard and stress out when i first got him during handling but now he's much better. in fact the other day i opened the lid and he came out on his own for the first time without my physically lifting him out.

[millertime89]

My BRB seemed to explore substantially more the first week I had him, he has definitely calmed down some more these past 2 weeks. Whenever I run into PetCo to purchase food for him I always check out the BPs they have and they're always crawling all over the cage they have all 4 of them in (shudder). Last time there was one that had figure-8'ed himself around the temp/humidity gauges they have in there and was checking to see if he could get out. Seems like normal behavior to me.

[Lankyrob]

We have had our BP for about a year - apart from the first few days of it trying to escape and the days that we feed him we probably see him about once a month if not less often. (we obviously check on him more than this but he voluntarily puts himself on show once a month or so.)

[mattchibi]

We have had our BP for about a year - apart from the first few days of it trying to escape and the days that we feed him we probably see him about once a month if not less often. (we obviously check on him more than this but he voluntarily puts himself on show once a month or so.)
how old is yours ?

and what exactly do you mean by check on him ? do you just lift the hides once ina while to make sure theyre alive / theres no poop in there ? and how often in a month is it healthy to play with her ?

I heard at the beginning of ownership (after waiting a week for her to get comfortable), you want to play with her for very short periods of time everyday and consistently for a week or two so she realizes youre the owner. is this a misconception ?

[Lankyrob]

YEah, just a case of checking he is still alive and spot cleaning as necessary. Ours is just over a year old, we handle him maybe twice a month for about 10 minutes, it is my opinion from dealing with the different species of snake that i have that he is the one that deals with handling the worst, even after a year he is just about beginning to not ball up tightly when we pick him up, he is exploring a lot more when he is out.

I definitely wouldnt be handling any snake everyday, we have 7 in total and they all get handled aroung twice a month on average.

The main reason for not eating in snakes seems to be stress and teh most stressful thing for a lot of snakes is being handled.

[Aaron_S]

You shouldn't be worrying. Ball pythons are nocturnal snakes and they normally will be just sleeping in a hide all day.

[mattchibi]

YEah, just a case of checking he is still alive and spot cleaning as necessary. Ours is just over a year old, we handle him maybe twice a month for about 10 minutes, it is my opinion from dealing with the different species of snake that i have that he is the one that deals with handling the worst, even after a year he is just about beginning to not ball up tightly when we pick him up, he is exploring a lot more when he is out.

I definitely wouldnt be handling any snake everyday, we have 7 in total and they all get handled aroung twice a month on average.

The main reason for not eating in snakes seems to be stress and teh most stressful thing for a lot of snakes is being handled.

Gotcha. So main focus #1 should be establishing a regular feeding pattern. And after that is done, and husbandry is all correct, then play with her as much as possible WITHOUT upsetting her feeding pattern.

I hope this is possible, I may be being overzealous tho lol. For now, I think ill heed ur advice and play with her only twice a month.

And yo rob, or anyone, do you guys usually feed in a seperate container ? Ive heard that if their substrate is suitable, you can feed them in their own cages and that sometimes they react better to feeding if they are in their own environment. On the other hand, I also would rather feed her in a seperate container because I don't wanna reach in her cage once and be mistaken for food. (not that im not prepared to be bitten, kind of a common hazard when u own a snake)

Thanks aaron, nice to hear an experts voice from Toronto ; )

[Gungirl]

I tend to take my BP out of his viv once a week. I keep him out from 10-15 min and thats all. If you take them out often or for long periods of time it can stress them out a lot. I feed on Sundays then take him out on Thursdays. Only start handling him once you get him to eat 4 or 5 times without him skipping a meal.

[brylecc1989]

i feed all my snakes in their enclosure. as long as shes not starving and ur sure to wash hands after handling food items u most likely will never trigger an accidental feeding response.

[lady_bug87]

I know there is a differing of opinion when it comes to feeding but I have always fed my BP in a separate tub and I am training my Colombian Boa to eat in a separate container as well the only snake I feed in its viv is my GTP for obvious reasons

[lady_bug87]

I have never had any feeding problems, no problems taking them out of the tub or out of their tank to transfer them into the tub.

[Lankyrob]

All of my snakes are fed in the viv - never had a problem reaching in and being mistaked for food!

[mattchibi]

I tend to take my BP out of his viv once a week. I keep him out from 10-15 min and thats all. If you take them out often or for long periods of time it can stress them out a lot. I feed on Sundays then take him out on Thursdays. Only start handling him once you get him to eat 4 or 5 times without him skipping a meal.

Damn.. 4 - 5 meals could take like 5 weeks or more ! Im getting so eager to hold her. Seems like you got a good schedule tho so i'll take ur advice.

It hasnt been a week yet since ive gotten her, but she stays in the hide a lot and Im worried there might be some poop in the hide. I havent lifted up the hide because I dont want to scare her. I should probably check just in case though, right ?

Edit: Also im gonna try to feed in a seperate container and see how it goes. Brandon her previous owner was doing the same so maybe she won't mind.

[Gungirl]

I always fed in and out of the viv. mine could care less as long as his food is warm enough. Snakes dont poop on a daily basis so unless you smell something don't worry about his hide for the week. Also mine only poops every 2-3 weeks.

[mattchibi]

I always fed in and out of the viv. mine could care less as long as his food is warm enough. Snakes dont poop on a daily basis so unless you smell something don't worry about his hide for the week. Also mine only poops every 2-3 weeks.

Ok thanks for the help :) Ill let you know how it goes

[youngster]

Hey, no offense here but Morticia is a pretty odd name. (I like weird names!) Why'd you pick it?

[mattchibi]

Hey, no offense here but Morticia is a pretty odd name. (I like weird names!) Why'd you pick it?

I didnt pick it. It was the name she had from her previous owner. To give some background info, my friend has a snake named Monty (like monty python), and hes pretty much the male counterpart to Morticia (or Morty : ) )

Also Morticia is the name of the mom in the Adams Family. morticia adams !!

Heres a quick video of Morticia's odd behaviour :

Morticia First Encounter - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMNuXMXkBBk)

Sry for the crappy quality, its the only camera i got at the moment.

[Lankyrob]

I wouldnt say any of that video shows weird behaviour, nice looking snake tho!!

[Aaron_S]

Remove the thermometer from the back of the tank. The snake is on the bottom, you need to ensure that the temps are ok where the snake spends it's time.

Secondly you can attempt to her feed her now. Just pick a day that works for you and feed her on that time.

[mattchibi]

Remove the thermometer from the back of the tank. The snake is on the bottom, you need to ensure that the temps are ok where the snake spends it's time.

Secondly you can attempt to her feed her now. Just pick a day that works for you and feed her on that time.

Its actually the hygrometer. Should i still move it ? I have two thermometer probes right at the substrate level on both warm and cool sides. Also have an infrared going for now, until the uth and stat comes.

And im just curious (not questioning you) why do you say shes ready to feed ? this video was taken the first or second day : P she hasnt really been coming out like this since. I'll leave it up to the experts tho, if you think i should try to feed ill give it a go !

Edit: also wanted to add that the previous owner I got her from was feeding her pretty regularly. Ive also handled her on two other occasions, but i think im gonna still wait till sunday to actually play with her.

[Aaron_S]

Why not try feeding her? I know every one says wait a whole week but I also know of big breeders who feed within days or getting a new animal.

Think of it this way. The one way we know a ball python is very comfortable is if it eats! So why not try now? If she doesn't eat then you just wait.

[mattchibi]

Why not try feeding her? I know every one says wait a whole week but I also know of big breeders who feed within days or getting a new animal.

Think of it this way. The one way we know a ball python is very comfortable is if it eats! So why not try now? If she doesn't eat then you just wait.

Okay, thanks Aaron. I will try feeding her tonight probably.

One last question, I had bought the smaller mice before actually seeing her. Her girth right now is at least the size of my wrist. The mice are about half of her girth. So should I try feeding her two of the smaller ones, or should I go and purchase the mice that are a bit bigger ?

[Aaron_S]

I would have went with rats.

Just try what you've got if she's used to mice otherwise go straight to rats.

[mattchibi]

I would have went with rats.

Just try what you've got if she's used to mice otherwise go straight to rats.

How big should I be feeding her ? I read that the girth of the rat/mouse should be approximately the size of her girth, or maybe a tiny bit less.

True ?

Edit: the mice I have right now are the ones that come in 4 pack, called Mice Hoppers. They are really tiny in my opinion, considering Morticia's size I think she could eat all 4 in one feeding. (not that i will try and feed her all 4) I can fit 2 or even 3 of the hopper mice in my hand, should I go with something bigger?

If its her first meal, does it matter ? Its not like itll harm her by feeding her something really small. I also dont want to waste the 4 mice I bought (considering they were killed for this specific reason lol).

[millertime89]

I just fed my BRB 3 pinkie mice for the exact reason you just stated, I bought them before I saw him and well... he needed more than one and I didn't want to waste them. I'm not sure how BPs are, but if yours eats 3, see if it'll take 4. Cover the cage so it doesn't get stressed and to limit the chance of regurg. How long is your BP?

[mattchibi]

I just fed my BRB 3 pinkie mice for the exact reason you just stated, I bought them before I saw him and well... he needed more than one and I didn't want to waste them. I'm not sure how BPs are, but if yours eats 3, see if it'll take 4. Cover the cage so it doesn't get stressed and to limit the chance of regurg. How long is your BP?

She is a little bigger than 3 feet, 3 years old. about 5.5" to 6" in diameter (like if you took a tape measure and went around her thickest part)

I looked again at the mice I bought and they are absolutely tiny. diameter of one of those things is like 2" maybe. I was thinking of feeding her 2 of them today, and then the bigger 2 next week. I didnt want to over-feed and try to feed all 3 or 4, because I want her to feed next week as well. And then if she succesfully eats both times, I will switch to a bit bigger of mice, and then eventually in a month or so to rats. (because she can fully eat something much bigger)

[Lankyrob]

I feed my BP rats that are 1.5 to 2 times the girth of him - he takes them no problem, one every 14 days.

[millertime89]

distance around is circumference.
Only feeding two is a safe idea. But don't be surprised if she's hungry in a few days.

[ladyjustice33]

My baby BP eats hoppers, so I'm sure they are much too small for a BP the size of yours. I use the 1.5 times the thickest part of the body rule with all my snakes and they are doing great. Anyway I gave my BP two weeks before I started to handle him. I do limit myself to how long I handle my snakes at a time, about 15-20 minute intervals, and I always wait at least 2 days after feeding and never while in shed. Besides that, some weeks I handle almost every day, other weeks if busy, not quite as much. All my snakes are eating, shedding, growing, and pooping fine. I have corns, rainbow boas, and the one BP. Just use common sense and instict in combination with what you learn on here. Eben (BP) was really calm a few days ago when I got him out, but yesterday I got him out and could tell he wasn't into it. He was huffing and puffing and jumpy, so I just held him for a bit and then put him up.

[mattchibi]

Thanks for all the help guys!! Really appreciate it.

I think ladyjustice is right, Im going to try and feed Morticia 3 of the little hoppers tonight. Also, I just asked Brandon and he said he was feeding her rat pups, which are significantly bigger than the little hoppers I have.

How should I do it exactly ? when feeding multiple mice. I have seen countless feeding videos, but they usually only feed one big mouse or rat. They dangle it in front of them with thongs and make them mimic as if it were alive. But since I have three of these hoppers, should I do the same thing with all three ? Or should I thaw them, then drop them into a rubbermaid one by one?

Also, how important is covering the feeding tank with a towel ? I know BPS are shy

[millertime89]

with my BRB, I thaw them all out, and wave them one at a time in front of his nose, if he's reluctant I just kinda push it gently against his face while moving it, and he eventually takes it. I do have to wait until the first one is all the way down before he'll take the second one. I do the exact same thing with the second one as the first.
Here's another way to do it, but I find my way is easier since both Nero, and the prey, are so small.
How To Feed A 2nd Food Item To A Snake (http://www.moonlightboas.com/care-info/videos/how-to-feed-a-2nd-food-item.php)

[mattchibi]

with my BRB, I thaw them all out, and wave them one at a time in front of his nose, if he's reluctant I just kinda push it gently against his face while moving it, and he eventually takes it. I do have to wait until the first one is all the way down before he'll take the second one. I do the exact same thing with the second one as the first.
Here's another way to do it, but I find my way is easier since both Nero, and the prey, are so small.
How To Feed A 2nd Food Item To A Snake (http://www.moonlightboas.com/care-info/videos/how-to-feed-a-2nd-food-item.php)

First time feeding was traumatizing !! Well maybe traumatizing isnt the right word.. maybe just frustrating!!

So I thawed out 3 mice hoppers for 10 min in lukewarm water. Then I prepared a cup of boiling water on the side. I removed Morticia from her cage and put her in a Rubbermaid container.

I then used my metal tongs to pick up the first hopper. I was planning on waving it around at the top to entice her appetite, but I dropped it in by accident because I was nervous. (A great start already T_T)

So then I picked it up, and dunked the hopper's head in the boiling water for 5 seconds, took it out and dried it, and offered it to her again. She went for it within 30 seconds BUT I think I screwed up big time. I flinched really hard when she striked at the hopper, and I may have held on too tightly or pulled it upwards, so she didnt actually get a good hold of it. I kept trying to offer it to her but she just wouldnt go for it again after a min or two.

So then I tried again with the second hopper, and SAME thing happened when she went for it. I flinched because I was so nervous (not nervous of getting bit, but for some reason my hands were shaky and I felt uneasy). She tried going for it again, but didnt get a good hold of it, and I kept offering it to her after but she wouldnt go for it. I tried with the third hopper and she didnt even go for it at all.

So after 10-15 minutes of trying, I gave up and decided I needed bigger prey. Was the problem that I flinched when she went for it (making it hard for her to get it in her mouth?) Or was it because she has bad aim ? Or maybe it was because of the tiny prey I was offering..

I also tried leaving one of the hoppers in there for a few minutes and covering the rubbermaid with a towel, but when I took the towel off to check if she was eating, she was just exploring the top of the container, clearly not interested in the food.

Let me know what you guys think I should do next time I feed. I guess I will get used to it and not flinch.. I felt like such a newbie when I flinched BOTH times X(

[millertime89]

leave one in the viv overnight and see what she does. I would say she's probably still a little uneasy, snakes are at their most vulnerable when feeding.

[Lankyrob]

My bp if he doesn't get a good hit first time wont take prey from the tongs - if he hits it then he eats no problem but if he missess he will turn tail and hide, i then leave the prey on a plastic plate in the viv overnight and it is gone most times by the following morning - it is almost as if he is embarassed if he misses his strike and doesnt want to try again!

[ZARADOZIA]

Was the problem that I flinched when she went for it (making it hard for her to get it in her mouth?) Or was it because she has bad aim ? Or maybe it was because of the tiny prey I was offering...

I guess I will get used to it and not flinch.. I felt like such a newbie when I flinched BOTH times X(

All of the above, you flinching, her bad aim, and prey being small; all plays a factor. And for the record, I have been dealing with snakes for 30 years and I still flinch. I use tongs to hold the food by the tail, I posted a vid of what I do and yes, yesterday I flinched the first time and messed poor Sasha up. That video I didn't post...lol

I have to make the food do the zombie dance for her otherwise she will not touch it. So I sit there dangling the mouse anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes until she is ready. And then repeat 1 to 2 more times after she finishes swallowing the first one because she refuses to eat rats.

All in all it depends on the snake. Each one is different, so don't get discouraged.

[mattchibi]

You guys are amazing, boosted my confidence back up. How soon should I try to feed again ? A week? Or can i try sooner than that because I know shes hungry if shes striking, right?

[Gungirl]

I would wait a week. You can easily stress a snake out by putting food in their face to often. It will be fine for another few days.

[Lankyrob]

If one of my guys misses a feed for any reason they wait til the next scheduled feed day, I have foung holding the prey by the scruff of its neck rather than the tail makes it easier to do the "dance" and also if you do flinch it more of a natural "prey jumping after getting hit" so less likely to rip it out of their grasp. Another good way is to not look directly at the prey or the snake (whilst keeping an eye on whats happening obviously) you are then less likely to react to the STRIKE and only react to the actual hit.

[Aaron_S]

Also I'm not sure if 10 minutes is enough to thaw a mouse entirely. Even if the outside seems thawed you want to make sure the insides are too! I am not used to thawing mice so I could be off here.

Otherwise I think you should just feed her in her enclosure. It's easier and less of a hassle and the snake would prefer it more! Don't worry, she won't mistake you for prey when going in there.

[mattchibi]

Also I'm not sure if 10 minutes is enough to thaw a mouse entirely. Even if the outside seems thawed you want to make sure the insides are too! I am not used to thawing mice so I could be off here.

Otherwise I think you should just feed her in her enclosure. It's easier and less of a hassle and the snake would prefer it more! Don't worry, she won't mistake you for prey when going in there.

These hoppers were tiny. Also i had them in the fridge for 8 hours, they felt soft even as i took em out of the fridge. She went for it within 30 seconds.

But yeah, i plan on changing her substrate to coco husk plantation soil, and then ill try to feed her in her tank. I was told to get rat pups, and to find prey that is about 1.5 times her girth.. hopefully this works next time and she aims better!

[lady_bug87]

All of the above, you flinching, her bad aim, and prey being small; all plays a factor. And for the record, I have been dealing with snakes for 30 years and I still flinch. I use tongs to hold the food by the tail, I posted a vid of what I do and yes, yesterday I flinched the first time and messed poor Sasha up. That video I didn't post...lol

I have to make the food do the zombie dance for her otherwise she will not touch it. So I sit there dangling the mouse anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes until she is ready. And then repeat 1 to 2 more times after she finishes swallowing the first one because she refuses to eat rats.

All in all it depends on the snake. Each one is different, so don't get discouraged.


I know I still flinch too! but my BP doesnt even give me the chance to do the 'zombie dance' he sees it and BOOM which makes me flinch and squeak lol

[millertime89]

I know I still flinch too! but my BP doesnt even give me the chance to do the 'zombie dance' he sees it and BOOM which makes me flinch and squeak lol

that must be entertaining to watch.

[mattchibi]

Hey guys
So I know you said not to play / handle with a new snake until she has eaten a few times right ? Well its been 8 days since I got her, and I really want to just handle her ONCE, but I dont know if that is okay or not. I am going to try to feed again this Friday (rat pups this time)

I took her hide off twice, once this morning once yesterday night, with the intention of playing with her. But after seeing her curled up tight in a ball, I assumed she didnt want to play and I didnt want to disturb her or force her to play. She clearly already seems a little stressed, right? Do they ease up after time, and after being able to know they can feed regularly? Is it unadvisable to pick her up and handle her for 10 minutes even if she curls into a ball, or should I really wait until she seems more comfortable with it? (also, this would be the only time i handle her, until i can get her feeding normally. I just havent even really held her since buying her and all her setup, and its killing me! I want to get to know my snake already lol)

[Gungirl]

Snakes will almost always want to be left alone. If it has been 48hrs from her last meal then yes I would say you can handle her for a few minutes in a quiet room with little action going on around her.

[mattchibi]

She didnt eat for me last Friday.

Because of : 1) my flinching, 2) the extremely small mouse i was offering, 3) she striked and missed twice.

So the answer to if I can handle her would be a No right ? I dont really mind to be honest, i just want her to be feeding correctly and be happy. I dont NEED to handle her, and I understand that she would feel much more comfortable if I didnt handle her probably.

[Lankyrob]

DOnt handle until it has eaten AT LEAST once, i know its hard but the snake will be with you for 20+ yrs so a few more days now is nothing! :)

[Gungirl]

What Rob said ^

[mattchibi]

Gotcha, thanks for the help

[lady_bug87]

that must be entertaining to watch.


my husband usually does the feeding, but yes I imagine it is!