New Healthy Ball Python - Need Some Tips

[mattchibi]

Hey guys,

Im new on this forum. Just got a healthy 3 yr old female ball python from a breeder. I would really appreciate any help from experienced owners with how to attain the correct temperatures in the cage as well as tips regarding handling and feeding.

My setup at the moment:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1120/cagesetup.jpg

20 Gallon Locking Glass Terrarium
2" of Aspen Snake Bedding
Water Dish on the left
Hide on the right (shes hiding inside at the moment)
Hygrometer in the middle
Two probe-thermometers on either side of the tank
&
Heat Lamp with dimmer
A 60 Watt Neodymium Day Glo bulb

Right now, the temperatures I am achieving are:
Daytime:
90 F on top of the hide (basking spot)
84.5 F ambient on the hot side (is this too low ?)
74 F on the cooler side

Nightime:
(I turned off my heat lamp for the first night, Ive had it since Sunday morning)
72 F all around

I have read online and been told by several other snake owners that I want 90-95 F on basking spot, 85-90 F on the warm side, and 78-82 F on the cooler side. And that during the night time, they are fine between 70-80 F.

So my question is: Should I use an UTH heater on the left side where the water is to raise the cooler side to around 80 F ? And should I also upgrade and get a 75 W bulb to achieve better temperatures on the warmer side ?

Lastly, I have heard that since I only got her on Sunday (yesterday) that I should wait at least a week to handle her. As well, I heard Its best to wait until they are feeding regularly to handle her more than once a week.

Sorry for all the questions, Im just eager to make my snake happy, as she is the first pet I have ever had. To add some incentive to help me, here's a picture of my ball, Morticia. (Notice the cool alien / ghost face markings on the side)

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8493/mortyghostpatterns.jpg

[Lankyrob]

Hey there,

You want 91f hot end and 78f (approx) cold end - 95f i would say is too high.

One important thing not mentioned in your post is humidity - BP's need 55% minimum humidity and up to 70% when they are in shed process. You will have issues with having aspen as a substrate as it is quite likely to mold and also it is difficult keeping humidity up in an aquarium (tho not impossible).

The snake also needs hides at both ends of the tank not just one end otherwise it cant thermoregulate AND hide itself away, BP's are shy creatures - we see ours apart from feeding about once a month if not less often so the more hidey places you give it the better.

[Snakefood]

MPO, is to get an UTH and use that instead of the basking light, the light is going to mess majorly with your humidity levels, whereas the UTH won't.

[lady_bug87]

I use a mix of spagnum moss and jungle earth and I mist once a week having one side of the screen covered my humidity stays up around 55 during shed I mist every day
you need a bowl that the snake can soak in that one looks a bit small and a bit too shallow

[mattchibi]

Hey there,

You want 91f hot end and 78f (approx) cold end - 95f i would say is too high.

One important thing not mentioned in your post is humidity - BP's need 55% minimum humidity and up to 70% when they are in shed process. You will have issues with having aspen as a substrate as it is quite likely to mold and also it is difficult keeping humidity up in an aquarium (tho not impossible).

The snake also needs hides at both ends of the tank not just one end otherwise it cant thermoregulate AND hide itself away, BP's are shy creatures - we see ours apart from feeding about once a month if not less often so the more hidey places you give it the better.

Ok thanks for the temperature suggestions. As for the substrate, I have also been told that Plantation Soil made from Coconut Husk are not too bad. What is the best substrate I can get at a Petsmart?

During the shed process, I have a humidifier that I can leave on in my room, which I think would help a bit. As well, I was going to get a UTH heater on the cooler side to increase the temp from 74 F to 78-79 F. If I placed the water bowl over the heater, would this also act as a crude humidifier ? Other options I thought about are moisture boxes which would be added in during shed, and I was also taught a technique to run my hands under warm water, then slightly dry my hands by flinging them in the air, and then directly playing with the snake. I did this once when my friends BP looked like it was gonna shed, and it indeed shed the night after. Oh, also I have been misting as well

As for a second hide, this is only a 20 gallon tank. I had a big branch I was going to put on the cooler side, do you think this is a bad idea ? Are two hides really necessary ? She is almost 3.5 feet now, do you think she needs a 30 gallon ? In which case I could have two hides, a much bigger water bowl, and some other decor too.

Last of all, I do have a screen top right now. Should I cover half of the top on the left side ? Will there still be enough oxygen for the snake ? And nobody really answered this, but should I not play with her until a week, or until I get her feeding correctly?

I really appreciate the help guys. (y)

[Nismo89]

Personally I use cypress mulch I got from Petco its made by zoo med and called Forest Floor it works great. I wouldn't put the UTH on the cool side because then it won't thermoregulate right I would put it on the side with the lamp with a thermostat hooked up. I have no problems fitting 2 hides a water bowl a climbing branch and two fake leaves in my 20 gal and theres still plenty of space. The snake absolutely needs a hide on both the cool and warm end so it can always feel secure. I wouldn't suggest handling during shedding because it can cause the old skin to stick to the new skin because of the film they develop between the two layers before shedding. The screen top with supply sufficient amount of air. Its also a good idea to leave the snake alone until it eats with you and then take it from there.

[Lankyrob]

Definitely needs two hides (if not more) and definitely dont handle during the shed process unless it is haveing major difficulties getting the old skin off. Covering the screen top will help with the humidity to some extent.

[mattchibi]

Hey thanks for the quick replies.
He isn't shedding, nor does he look like hes about to shed. I just bought him from a close friend who has too many snakes. I read online that I should wait until I can get her to feed once before I play with it. is this true?

Also I think I will go with the zoo med forest floor cypress mulch, because it probably retains humidity better. How often should I change this stuff completely ?

[Lankyrob]

If you spot clean religiously then changing substrate can be done as little as twice a year - i remove not only the mess but a good spoonful of the surrounding substrate and then chuck a new handful in - then every now and then they get a full clean out.

In terms of handling i wait until they have eaten one meal before trying handling - remember that it needs 48 hours after eating for digestion before being disturbed tho.

The other rule i have is that if a snake misses a meal it then gets zero interaction until it eats again for me.

[Nismo89]

The mulch holds moisture great I have it in my Brazilians cage and I have a 50/50 mix of cypress and coco fiber in my iguanas cage. As long as you spot clean like Rob said theres no need to replace it all

[SnakeyJay]

How are you measuring your temps.? If its with tht dial thermometer on the back wall then you need to go get a digital probe thermometer. The dials are very unaccurate, also you need to take temps etc from ground level as this is where your snake is.. other than that im no help as i dont have a royal. Good luck.

[mattchibi]

How are you measuring your temps.? If its with tht dial thermometer on the back wall then you need to go get a digital probe thermometer. The dials are very unaccurate, also you need to take temps etc from ground level as this is where your snake is.. other than that im no help as i dont have a royal. Good luck.

Im using two probe thermometers. I have them hanging and the probe is like 0.5" from the substrate. I think I understand everything completely, except for the temps still..

I am easily getting 90-91 F on top of the basking spot, and 84 F ambient temp on the warmer side. The problem is: the temperature on the cooler side is at 74.. How do I raise the temperature on this side ? Do i need a UTH, guys ? Or is the heat lamp doing the job already ?

I also live in Canada, and as soon as winter comes, temps are gonna drop a fair bit as well. So thats why I thought the UTH would be a good investment.

Thanks for all the help

[Nismo89]

The UTH on the warm side with no bulb set on thermostat at 91 F should bring the temp on the cool side up otherwise you could get a space heater and bring the actual room temp up to where you want the cool end to be. I currently have an UTH on the hot side set at 85 F which leaves my ambient at 80 F and my cool end at 75 F. I get my cool end to 75 F by having a space heater connected to a thermostat set at 75 F. I also have a separate reptile room with controlled heat and humidity separate from the rest of the house.

[mattchibi]

The UTH on the warm side with no bulb set on thermostat at 91 F should bring the temp on the cool side up otherwise you could get a space heater and bring the actual room temp up to where you want the cool end to be. I currently have an UTH on the hot side set at 85 F which leaves my ambient at 80 F and my cool end at 75 F. I get my cool end to 75 F by having a space heater connected to a thermostat set at 75 F. I also have a separate reptile room with controlled heat and humidity separate from the rest of the house.

I seee, so you dont use a bulb at all. What do you do to mimic the natural light cycle ? Open the windows during the days ?

And as for the UTH, does anyone have any suggestions on a certain model ? And how do you attach a thermostat to it, or do you just use a thermostat to track how hot it is getting?

[Lankyrob]

I use non light emitting heat bulbs for all my snakes and they get their day night schedule from natural light throught the windows - you dont want direct sunlight into the tank tho!

ANY heater used for animals, in my opiniion should only be used with a thermostat to prevent any risk of oveerheating or underheating the animal.

[mattchibi]

ANY heater used for animals, in my opiniion should only be used with a thermostat to prevent any risk of oveerheating or underheating the animal.

I understand this. I am desperately looking for the brand name and model number of this magical "Thermostat" that regulates heat pad temperatures. I have been looking all over the posts on this site and have had no luck yet.

As of right now, I just bought the Exo Terra Heat Wave Desert Medium Pad; however, I will hold off on using it until I either get a good suggestion on a reliable thermostat, or until I figure out a good way to use it with my probe-thermometer.

I have given her a second hide on the cooler side, which she immediately went to check out. However, she did not stay long and promptly went back under the hide that is under the heat lamp.

I could not find the ZooMed Forest Floor cypress mulch, and the only other cypress mulch available was the All Living Things one. I decided against it because the woodchips seemed unforgiving. Instead, I went with the Exo Terra Plantation Soil, which I heard holds humidity very well. Probably just needs to be cleaned a bit more often than other substrates.

[youngster]

This is the cheapest functional thermostat you can get- Easy-to-use Zoo Med Reptile Rheostats for Less (http://www.bigappleherp.com/Rheostats)
You'd be much better off with a good one, $50+ USD.

[mattchibi]

This is the cheapest functional thermostat you can get- Easy-to-use Zoo Med Reptile Rheostats for Less (http://www.bigappleherp.com/Rheostats)
You'd be much better off with a good one, $50+ USD.

Thanks a lot for the link, man.

I don't want to get the cheapest one, I want to buy the one that works the best.

I am looking at the mid-price range thermostat on that page, heres the link:
BAH-1000DC Reptile Thermostat New Model - Incredibly Reliable Digital Chip for Accurate Temperature Control (http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000-Thermostat)

Has anyone used this one before? Its called the: NEW DIGITAL CHIP - BAH-1000DC Reptile Thermostat With DC Chip Technology

Again, thanks for all the help. I would be a little worried if you guys werent here !

[Lankyrob]

You defo want a THERMOstat rather than a RHEOstat - in my opinion anyways.

An example - the rheostat is adjusted by hand - by you, you set it at the right level on day one, day two the ambient temps are higher - you need to adjust it again, day three there is a freeze, you have to adjust it again etc etc, imagine that you are away from home and there is a freeze or a heatwave.........

With a thermostat once it is dialled in to give the right temperature at teh probe then the ambient temperature is irrelevant as that thermostat self adjusts to keep the temps in the right place. Yes you do need to check them couple of times a month just to be sure but the majority of them are reliable enough to never need adjusting. I use HAbistat pulse proportional stats for my ceramic heat bulbs - i check them approx every 14 days with a laser thermometer jobby, apart from the stat that the cats jump over everytime they get on top of the viv i have not had to adjust ANY of the other 6 that i use once they were set up and on temp they hold that temp perfectly.

[mattchibi]

You defo want a THERMOstat rather than a RHEOstat - in my opinion anyways.

An example - the rheostat is adjusted by hand - by you, you set it at the right level on day one, day two the ambient temps are higher - you need to adjust it again, day three there is a freeze, you have to adjust it again etc etc, imagine that you are away from home and there is a freeze or a heatwave.........

With a thermostat once it is dialled in to give the right temperature at teh probe then the ambient temperature is irrelevant as that thermostat self adjusts to keep the temps in the right place. Yes you do need to check them couple of times a month just to be sure but the majority of them are reliable enough to never need adjusting. I use HAbistat pulse proportional stats for my ceramic heat bulbs - i check them approx every 14 days with a laser thermometer jobby, apart from the stat that the cats jump over everytime they get on top of the viv i have not had to adjust ANY of the other 6 that i use once they were set up and on temp they hold that temp perfectly.

Thanks rob! I will definitely check out the HAbistat. Does anyone know which thermostat works best with UTH's ? As I think that is the route I want to be going.

A quick update on Morticia. She is doing fantastic now. Humidity is well in the 60% range, temps were at 76 F on the warmer and 74 F on the cooler during the night time. I put a space heater on at 74 F for a few hours after i fell asleep last night and I can already tell she loves the tropical weather. The last two days I had her, she would only stay in her big hide under the light. However, when I woke up, I found her in the second hide that I provided, and now, I believe she has a way to thermoregulate.

Again, Im still looking for which exact Under-Tank-Heater to purchase, as well as suggestions on which thermostat to buy with it. I bought the Exo Terra Heat Wave Desert, but I havent opened it yet. I have a feeling I might have wanted to get the Rainforest one instead, just because this one says "for dry climates, sand or gravel".. This has been the damn longest week ever, I've played with all my friends' snakes before, but waiting 7 days before handling Morticia has proven difficult! Hopefully on Sunday she eats when I try and feed her !

[mattchibi]

Did a little more research online, found a posting of the top thermostats which arent on/off but are PROPORTIONAL thermostats

idk, ive heard a lot of bad things from them, i would suggest a new thermostate, they make plent but for a good one your lookin at least i would say 75 dallers. Heres a bunch of links, number one will be the cheapest but these all are suppossed to be the best of the best.

1.Ranco thermostat, $88 shipped. Snake Cage and Reptile Cage at PVC Cages | Snake Cage (http://www.pvccages.com/id183.htm)
2.Spider robotics $100ish. Spyder Robotics (http://www.spyderrobotics.com/products/herpstat.html)
3.the best of the best Helix DBS-1000 DBS-1000 (http://www.helixcontrols.com/DBS1000.htm)
4.The big Cahoowna, Very expencive, $500, but can regulate almost everything
http://ecozonevivarium.com/products-...ntrollers.aspx

Can anyone comment on the above listed thermostats ? Herpstat seems to be commonly used, and I've heard Helix a few times as well. Anyone have any experience using these ones ?

[mattchibi]

Bump : P

Can anyone comment on the following thermostats ? All of them except the Ranco is Proportional Heating, rather than on/off.

1. Ranco thermostat, $88 - Ranco Thermostat | Snake Cage and Reptile Cage at PVC Cages (http://www.pvccages.com/new/?wpsc-product=ranco-thermostat)
2. Herpstat $109 - Spyder Robotics (http://www.spyderrobotics.com/products/herpstat.html) or Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce (http://www.spyderrobotics.com/store/)
3. Helix DBS-1000, $139 - DBS-1000 (http://www.helixcontrols.com/DBS1000.htm)

Need one that works with a UTH. Anyone with suggestions or advice welcome !

[mattchibi]

Just an update for you guys:

I bought the herpstat last night online, I watched a whole bunch of reviews for the helix, the ranco and I heard the herpstat is the simplest to use as well as the most reliable.

i will let you guys know how it goes, im excited to try the UTH + thermostat. Morticia doesnt seem too friendly at the moment, and i really want to give her the best environment possible

[youngster]

Good job :) The rheostats aren't very good no matter what I was just pointing that out in case you needed one in a hurry or something. They're very unreliable as Rob said, I have to adjust the one on my corns cage at least 3 times a week. I only use it because corns (since they are native to North America) are pretty lenient as regards to temp. humidity etc. BTW if you ever have a question the first thing you can do is hit the "Search" button at the top and try to find what you need. If that doesn't work feel free to ask as many questions as you like :)

[mattchibi]

:) thanks bud, i got a question..

what are those snake names in every body's signature ?
in urs its "1.0 black motley cornsnake; Sage", whats it mean ?

also, can anyone confirm if the Exo Terra Heatwave Heat Pad Desert is good ? Picked up the medium for $30 at petsmart, seemed pretty reasonable

[Gungirl]

:)

what are those snake names in every body's signature ?
in urs its "1.0 black motley cornsnake; Sage", whats it mean ?


That tells people the sex, kind and name of his pets. He has a male motley corn named sage.

1.0 = 1 male
2.0= 2 males
0.1=1 female
0.2=2 females
0.0.1 = 1 unknown sex
0.0.2= 2 unknown sex
1.2.1 would be 1 male 2 female and 1 unkown..

hope that helps clear it up

[youngster]

:) thanks bud, i got a question..

what are those snake names in every body's signature ?
in urs its "1.0 black motley cornsnake; Sage", whats it mean ?

also, can anyone confirm if the Exo Terra Heatwave Heat Pad Desert is good ? Picked up the medium for $30 at petsmart, seemed pretty reasonable

It's code for the gender and how many snakes we have :) 1.0 means one male snake, 0.1 means one female snake, 0.0.1 mean one unsexed snake. 1.2 means one male and two females and so on. We have a sticky thread for all the lingo we use :D Here it is, read up http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/85699-herp-lingo.html

[mattchibi]

Ooh thanks guys.

Anyone know about the exo terra heatwave heat pad desert ?

Edit: And.. Real or Myth ? Are infrared lights completely safe to use with BP's ? Someone once told me it causes cancer and ive been hesitant to try it. Although a lot of youtubers who film their snakes actually usually have the UTH on the bottom to control the hot side temp, and then a small infrared light on top to control ambient temps. Does anyone else do that ?

[youngster]

Ooh thanks guys.

Anyone know about the exo terra heatwave heat pad desert ?

Edit: And.. Real or Myth ? Are infrared lights completely safe to use with BP's ? Someone once told me it causes cancer and ive been hesitant to try it. Although a lot of youtubers who film their snakes actually usually have the UTH on the bottom to control the hot side temp, and then a small infrared light on top to control ambient temps. Does anyone else do that ?

I do that when it gets cold, don't see why infrared would cause cancer. But I use this UTH and it works like a charm Zoo Med Repti-Therm Under Tank Heaters - Reptile - Sale Category - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752652)

[blindfireak40]

I can almost guarantee that infrared does not cause cancer. It's less energetic than visible light; if it caused cancer then seeing things would cause cancer as well lol

Also, GREAT job with your setup!! It's always nice to see a new owner who did their own research but is still willing to take expert advice :) Hopefully she calms down for ya soon, so you can get us pictures :yes:

[mattchibi]

I can almost guarantee that infrared does not cause cancer. It's less energetic than visible light; if it caused cancer then seeing things would cause cancer as well lol

Also, GREAT job with your setup!! It's always nice to see a new owner who did their own research but is still willing to take expert advice :) Hopefully she calms down for ya soon, so you can get us pictures :yes:

Thanks : ) As soon as I have her feeding regularly, Im going to start playing with her (shes a beauty). Shes pretty big for a 3 year old, shes close to 3.5 feet and has decent girth. Her previous owner Brandon was feeding her every 7-10 days apparently so shes a good feeder too. We will see how she does for me hehe.

I also decided to go with Plantation Soil made from Coco Husks for now, if i find it too humid or dirty i may decide to mix it 50/50 with something more dry.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions guys.

[millertime89]

too bad you bought the thermostat already, I have one that I purchased from Menards (hardware store) and modified to work for my vivarium. Works great and only cost me about 40 bucks (I had to buy a new spool of wire for it, otherwise 35). Cancel your order and I can make you one and ship it to you. Its programmable to day/night/weekday/weekend cycles.

[blindfireak40]

too bad you bought the thermostat already, I have one that I purchased from Menards (hardware store) and modified to work for my vivarium. Works great and only cost me about 40 bucks (I had to buy a new spool of wire for it, otherwise 35). Cancel your order and I can make you one and ship it to you. Its programmable to day/night/weekday/weekend cycles.

I smell a how-to thread.... ;)

[youngster]

I smell a how-to thread.... ;)

Me too......

[millertime89]

Oh fine, there's already one out there but I suppose I could make one since I did it a bit differently.

[LLinz]

I use a big zoo med UTH, no complaints it works great. I have to use a UTH as well as a ceramic heat emitter for my BP because of where I live. It makes it harder to maintain humidity, but keeps up ambient heat.

[mattchibi]

I use a big zoo med UTH, no complaints it works great. I have to use a UTH as well as a ceramic heat emitter for my BP because of where I live. It makes it harder to maintain humidity, but keeps up ambient heat.

Thanks for the input

where exactly in canada do you live ? i live in toronto and i find the climate is pretty moderate except during the winter season. maybe u live more north

[LLinz]

I live in southern Manitoba. Gets very cold here so keeping up heat can be tricky.

[SnakeyJay]

If heat is still an issue then try a wooden viv. :)

[mattchibi]

Read abunch of reviews and talked to a few petsmart people, who all agree that the exo-terra is NOT a good UTH heater and will not provide enough heat alone to keep your BP happy

i went for the zoo med 30-40 gallon, it was 8" by 12", should be perfect for my tank.

cant wait to set it all and up and show you guys : )

another thing i was wondering about guys.. rub nose. is this a common issue with snakes in glass terrariums ? I put up some magazine pictures and one of the static background things on the back of mine so that only the front is open now. was this a good idea ?

[Lankyrob]

Yes it is a good idea, BP's are very shy animals so the less exposure they have the better.

[millertime89]

here ya guys go.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-enclosure-discussion/88402-homemade-programmable-thermostat.html#post634600