Opinion on BP morphs

[youngster]

I'm going to an expo in October and I'm trying to figure everything out before I go. I plan on getting 1.1 Proven breeder BPs. My question is what's your opinion on morphs. I was thinking pastels to make super pastels or het. piebalds. 2 het. pieds would make 1/4 babies pied right? I'm hoping to get a nice morph. Anyways any answers are appreciated. What's your favorite morph. There was a thread about a month ago asking this and a lot of people said piebalds.

[stephanbakir]

There is only 1 problem with breeding het to het, you end up with not only hets and pieds, but also P-het babies, which are tricky to sell unless they are visible hets.

[Snakefood]

IMO, I would go pieds, whether thru hets or visuals would depend on how much you have to spend!! If you could get pastel piebalds, even better!!

at the show this past weekend, I found 2 additional contacts for when I am ready for my B/P's. They both have pied het pairs for decent prices. The visuals are out of my price range at the moment!! Around here, as long as you're selling the first generation of non-visual hets at normal B/P prices, they sell just fine in the pet community. It's when you try to sell the "het" gene that you end up with lots of growing babies you can't sell!!

[stephanbakir]

I meant visual hets. A het animal that you can tell is a het and not a normal.

[Gungirl]

I love the lesser line... Beautiful babies!!

[Snakefood]

Right, I got that. Just meant if keep your next generation of breeders to get visual pieds out of the litter then sell the rest "as" normals (ie: at the price of a normal BP) to the pet community as pets. Then you're not overloaded by babies you can't sell as "visual hets"

(I just learned about the visual het thing yesterday at the show when talking to a BP breeder!! I wouldn't have had a clue of you were talking about 2 days ago!! Goes to show, you learn something new everyday!!)

[youngster]

Yeah I want to do pieds. And this project is not really for profit or money (though it's nice to have a wad of cash :D) so I'll probably sell them pretty cheap. Hets won't be much more than normals if at all.

[Snakefood]

exactly what I meant. If i go for the pair of het pieds, I would keep a few "visual Pieds" out of the clutch, sell the hets at "normal" price, then breed the visual pieds together.

[UwabamiReptiles]

The dangerous thing about het to het is that it is very possible to end up with no visuals. Thats why most people breed with co-dominant animals so they get visual morphs in the first generation(usually). I don't know what your price range is but a proven het pied pair isn't gonna be cheap purchase. Proven het pied females are pretty pricey. You could try to get a proven normal female(or two) and get a nice co-dominant male and then you wouldn't even have to deal with the pos het stuff. Then you can keep a visual female and raise her up, breed back to your male and go for supers. Tons of options.

[youngster]

The dangerous thing about het to het is that it is very possible to end up with no visuals. Thats why most people breed with co-dominant animals so they get visual morphs in the first generation(usually). I don't know what your price range is but a proven het pied pair isn't gonna be cheap purchase. Proven het pied females are pretty pricey. You could try to get a proven normal female(or two) and get a nice co-dominant male and then you wouldn't even have to deal with the pos het stuff. Then you can keep a visual female and raise her up, breed back to your male and go for supers. Tons of options.

Oh that's a good idea. So I should get a proven female normal and breed her to a co-dom male? Because males are usually somewhat cheaper right? I was actually just looking at that. Het males are like $75 while females are like 200+.

[ladyjustice33]

Well, I just got a pastel male and friend of mine a spider female. I've been told a pastel and spider are two cornerstones for any breeding project. My next is a lesser platinum female and he is probably going with a super pastel male. I would love to get a super pastel het for clown and a pastel het for clown and try for some killer clowns!!!

[Snakefood]

I was told (and have read from various sources) that with a het pair, you would get 1 in 4 visual pieds. Of course, there is always the chance that you won't get any visuals in a single clutch, but the breeder who I will buy my het pair off of will give me a written gaurantee that if I don't get visual pieds within the first 2 clutches, he will give me a visual pied pair!! He gaurantees his 100% het pairs.

This breeder will charge me $450 for a het pair (they both have the visual het markings on the ventral) This is the best deal I have found so far that comes with a gaurantee. The best deal I have found on visual pieds is $800 for a male, and $1600 for a female (both high whites). So to be honest, I would rather invest the time in breeding the hets into pieds than try to come up with that kind of dough for visual pieds to begin with.

[UwabamiReptiles]

Oh that's a good idea. So I should get a proven female normal and breed her to a co-Dom male? Because males are usually somewhat cheaper right? I was actually just looking at that. Het males are like $75 while females are like 200+.

Well it will ultimately come down to what you want to produce. But if you want to go the proven female route, a normal female would be the easiest to come by. Even an adult female pastel is $600-800 depending where you look. You still have some time before the Oct expo so I would just look at different morphs and see what you like and then see which of those will fit in your budget. To get a het pied pair would probably cost you around 300, then you would have to raise them up so there's two to three years of food and electricity. But if you get a proven normal fem ale(150 at the very most) you could get a male and try to breed this season. Like I said before it ultimately comes down to what you like because if nobody will buy them it would be better to have babies you like then a whole bunch you didn't.

[brylecc1989]

I love bees. PastelxSpider i believe. They are awesomee!

[youngster]

I'm definitely breeding this year. My local shop has an adult male spider for only $125. So I might get him and a normal female and breed them. And by the way Brylecc That's been the best case scenario in my head since the beginning I love bumblebees as well. The only problem is that it's out of my budget.

[Gungirl]

I know you where thinking either breeding BP's or Corn's.. May I ask why you decided to breed Bp's instead?

[TalonNC]

Sine we are talkin Morphs here....and i don't want t clutter p with additional topics mind if i ask a few Morph questions?

1. What is the TOP end morph right now?
2. Why do spider some morphs "wobble"?
3. What is a "visual" het?
4. Are there any any Black or Red morphs?

[stephanbakir]

There is no "top end morph" There are lots of higher end morphs, and the most valuable herps tend to be the animal with the largest collection of full genes

[youngster]

I know you where thinking either breeding BP's or Corn's.. May I ask why you decided to breed Bp's instead?

I'm not really sure. My little corn is awesome but I like BP morphs more along with a few other things.

[Snakefood]

A visual het is a normal looking snake which has certain markings on the ventral (as far as I know, usually along the tail end) that is a visual marker that the animal is "het" for a certain gene (or morph)

[youngster]

Sine we are talkin Morphs here....and i don't want t clutter p with additional topics mind if i ask a few Morph questions?

1. What is the TOP end morph right now?
2. Why do spider some morphs "wobble"?
3. What is a "visual" het?
4. Are there any any Black or Red morphs?

1. Many
2. Something with the genes
3. There's homozygous and heterozygous, homozygous means possessing the gene and displaying it fully. Het means carries the gene but not showing it. With some morphs there's visual hets which mean (I think) it displays some of the gene but not all.
4. Suma, super cinnamon are pretty dark. There's many, not sure about red though.

[Gungirl]

I'm not really sure. My little corn is awesome but I like BP morphs more along with a few other things.

Fair answer..

[Ch^4]

I'm definitely breeding this year. My local shop has an adult male spider for only $125. So I might get him and a normal female and breed them. And by the way Brylecc That's been the best case scenario in my head since the beginning I love bumblebees as well. The only problem is that it's out of my budget.

Not to be a downer, but if a bumblebee is out of your price range, how are you going to afford to breed? Bumblebees run $300-500 "ish..."

You need to plan on housing--individually--4, 6, 8, even 10+ ball pythons for at least a few months while getting everyone started. This is just to get them started; what if you can't even sell half the clutch? Any of the clutch? You need an incubator (unless you plan on maternal incubation), food for everyone, husbandry supplies (i.e., substrate, furnishings, cleaning), money for potential vet visits, etc.

Breeding is a big responsibility and a large commitment financially, temporally, and spatially. No one can tell you if you're ready to breed--that's for you to decide. But it's not going to be an inexpensive endeavor.

Hopefully I didn't kill your morale, but I wanted to shed some light on reality. And if you really want to pursue the bumblebee project, buy a nice 2011 female pastel hatchling, raise her up for 2-3 years, and buy a nice double or triple gene male that has spider in it (down the road). Then you can go for a 4-banger your first season...

[Valvaren]

^ I do completely agree like I said you really have to plan ahead and make sure you have all your bases covered if you can't afford good quality animals its going to be hard to sell them, and you do have to house and feed them and make sure they are healthy which includes vets like stated above and the housing. This is what gets me about breeding and especially people who get into breeding animals like Bearded Dragons that have very very large clutches. Really really plan and think this through you don't want to get stuck with the crappy end of the stick :|

[youngster]

Everyone, I want to make this clear. I am NOT going to make this into a breeding business. This is for a school project. It wouldn't make any sense at all to have a long term business like this before college. I have developed a full-scale plan as part of the project.

Not to be a downer, but if a bumblebee is out of your price range, how are you going to afford to breed? Bumblebees run $300-500 "ish..."

You need to plan on housing--individually--4, 6, 8, even 10+ ball pythons for at least a few months while getting everyone started. This is just to get them started; what if you can't even sell half the clutch? Any of the clutch? You need an incubator (unless you plan on maternal incubation), food for everyone, husbandry supplies (i.e., substrate, furnishings, cleaning), money for potential vet visits, etc.

Breeding is a big responsibility and a large commitment financially, temporally, and spatially. No one can tell you if you're ready to breed--that's for you to decide. But it's not going to be an inexpensive endeavor.

Hopefully I didn't kill your morale, but I wanted to shed some light on reality. And if you really want to pursue the bumblebee project, buy a nice 2011 female pastel hatchling, raise her up for 2-3 years, and buy a nice double or triple gene male that has spider in it (down the road). Then you can go for a 4-banger your first season...

I'm aware of the responsibilities behind breeding. I have worked out a plan with my parents and they are all for it. A bumblebee wouldn't make very much sense for this project. My dad has a barn full of woodworking tools so we are building the enclosures for the parents and the rack for the babies at little to no cost.

[lady_bug87]

Not that I am planning on breeding my ball anytime soon BUT I have a question, all this gene stuff is confusing to me... soo my question is:...


1) how do I know if my male is truly 'normal' (now he looks mostly like a normal ball but the tan stripe on his back is kind of yellowey-green and along his sides he has a bit more yellow than some of the pictures I have seen he may be completely normal I have no idea I bought him from a petstore.... scandalous I know!)
2) what happens if he is normal and I breed him with a morph

[youngster]

Not that I am planning on breeding my ball anytime soon BUT I have a question, all this gene stuff is confusing to me... soo my question is:...


1) how do I know if my male is truly 'normal' (now he looks mostly like a normal ball but the tan stripe on his back is kind of yellowey-green and along his sides he has a bit more yellow than some of the pictures I have seen he may be completely normal I have no idea I bought him from a petstore.... scandalous I know!)
2) what happens if he is normal and I breed him with a morph

Depends on what morph. This is a great tool. Genetic Wizard 3.0 - World of Ball Pythons (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/)

[Aaron_S]

If you bought it as a normal, then it's a normal. Something pretty cool about ball pythons is that the normal can still vary greatly.

For what it would make when bred to a morph that link provided is a very useful tool.

[SkYyaMe1623]

Any "bee" morph. Nothing compares.

[lady_bug87]

Any "bee" morph. Nothing compares.


yea I was looking at the tool, I was just curious because I know that when you cross things the hets appear to be visual normals so they would sell them as normals right?