Update on 2011 season

[candyraver69]

Well of my three planned breedings, Zen's eggs went bad due to the early moisture problem, Nymph laid 17 slugs, but Jezabel had 15 hatchlings out of her 17 eggs! Out of the 15, I lost one so far due to getting wrapped up in it's cord, but the rest are doing well. I have ruled out her carrying Amel for sure, no red pupils. I am trying to decipher Anery from Charcoal from Carmels. I think it will be easier after their first shed. They are all so dark. I also am having issues deciding if some are diffused or something else? Some are clearly normals, some have are missing checkerboards from the middle of the ventral area and a sort of "diffused" look up the sides on the lower half, and some have a completely white ventral like a motley would, but not a normal motley pattern :S Does anyone have pics or links to pics of a zig-zag ventral? They have parts that look normal, parts that I might consider zig-zag, like v shapes and q-tip shapes. I will get pics up as soon as I track down my camera.

[candyraver69]

Oh and one more thing. My very first one to come all the way out of the egg was super tiny! The rest are the size I expected, but the first hatchling is about the size of a nightcrawler you might go fishing with, maybe slightly smaller! Should I chop up a day old pink the first time I feed it? I don't think there is any way it can down a whole one.

[stephanbakir]

Grats, looking forward to getting this one explained, I'm not a corn guy =/

[candyraver69]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263383_10150253132555488_549355487_7704452_3983618 _n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/281966_10150253132570488_549355487_7704453_3808196 _n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/283284_10150253132580488_549355487_7704454_7051041 _n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/284388_10150253132605488_549355487_7704455_3407573 _n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/229684_10150253132625488_549355487_7704456_1225188 _n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/254778_10150253132650488_549355487_7704457_3029308 _n.jpg
This one isn't doing so great. I hope it makes it. It was all wrapped up in the cord, I caught it and helped it out, but maybe not soon enough :(

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/222526_10150253132665488_549355487_7704458_4941943 _n.jpg

[candyraver69]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285270_10150253132685488_549355487_7704459_4586174 _n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281487_10150253132700488_549355487_7704460_2307686 _n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252079_10150253132715488_549355487_7704461_2763634 _n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281689_10150253132725488_549355487_7704462_169829_ n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/189284_10150253132730488_549355487_7704463_2079894 _n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284558_10150253132745488_549355487_7704464_6374670 _n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/188241_10150253132750488_549355487_7704465_1679080 _n.jpg

[brylecc1989]

Cool corns!

[candyraver69]

Now that they are all out, and not gooey, and I have gotten a good look, none are looking charcoal to me, does everyone agree with that much?

Now as far as the diffused, do you see the drastic difference in ventrals? Some have distinct normal checkers. Some have sort of blah checkers. Some have only checkers on the outer part of the ventrals that are blah, and then some have completely white ventrals.

Then there is the coloring. My normals are very dark looking. Maybe they will lighten and color up a bit? I've never seen day old hatchlings first hand so maybe this is what they are suppose to look like, maybe not.

There are a couple that are obviously NOT normals. My bet is on carmel, though it's a tough call between that and anery. If they lighten up the way I think the normals will, I imagine carmels.

[candyraver69]

Cool corns!

thanks! :)

[stephanbakir]

They look awesome, wish I could help you regarding morphs.

[candyraver69]

They look awesome, wish I could help you regarding morphs.

Thanks! and no worries. I am sure someone around here has some advice, or worse case, I can be patient and wait for their colors to change up a little bit and I will be able to tell better. It's just hard to find pictures of such young ones. Once I know for sure I will update the thread so it can help other noobs out there identifying their morphs hehe.

What makes it so tough is that the parents of these guys are het for so many things. This pair is het for carmel, 66% het for charcoal, and some small % het for anery (grandad of the babies is %66 het).

[Freebody]

WOW , very nice!! grats.

[candyraver69]

WOW , very nice!! grats.
Thanks!

I have been reading my tail off about diffused. It seems it's normal for the amount of checkering to vary from non-existent to very slight on the edges, so the ones without any checkers are diffused. The ones with none in the center ventral are diffused, and the ones with checkers all over the ventral but still covering the whole area they normally cover or all but the very center are probably normals that just need to color up a bit or have poor markings. So by my judgement I count 9 diffused though I am no expert. We will see what happens with the first shed or two.

The more time goes by, even though it's only been a matter of hours, their colors are changing. The yellow pigment between the spotting is brightening up significantly, the reddish tones in the normals is starting to show better. The 3 carmel?anery ones are looking more and more likes carmels.

My best guess:
5 normal %100 het amel %66 het carmel
6 diffused %100 het amel %66 het carmel
3 diffused carmel %100 het amel

[stephanbakir]

Grats man, allot of snakes are a pain to identify till the first/second shed. Some snakes like retic calicos don't actually start getting their pattern for a year or so.

[blindfireak40]

So I'm guessing by your results that the cross was Diffused het Caramel X Amel het Caramel Het Diffused, is that accurate? If so, your results are fairly consistent, but I'd be willing to bet at least one of your normals colors up to be Caramel. Also, could you please PM me which ones you've ID'd as which? Just send me numbers corresponding to pictures with a morph :)

Genetics aside, though, beautiful babies :D! How's that little diffused doing?

[candyraver69]

I paired an Amel %100 het diffused and carmel, %66 charcoal x normal %100 het diffused and carmel %66 amel %66 charcoal.

My diffused count could be wrong, or I could just have gotten lucky and gotten a high amount of diffused, because I should have roughly %25 diffused only.

The diffused have a great chance of being bloodred too, because the diffused comes from bloodred. One particular baby is looking very promising as a bloodred because it has a very pinkish tone through most of the base.

I'd be happy to pm you after a few sheds with an update when I am more sure :)

[stephanbakir]

Any holdbacks offhand?

[blindfireak40]

I THINK (do NOT read "I'm Positive" lol) that you only have 6 diffused total, in any combination. The trick is that the diffused gene should wash out the lower side patterning as well...the stronger the expression of the gene, the higher up on the body the washing out goes (Bloodreds are completely washed out, almost patternless). If you were so lucky as to get Caramel with a Bloodred-style diffused, you can look forward to an almost patternless golden-brown snake. Which would look AMAZING! :D

[candyraver69]

The ones with the checkers removed from the middle ventral also have a wish washy patterning on the lower sides, so it's questionable still. I am not going to know for sure till a few sheds I think. Those bottom checks will either color up or go away I am guessing.

As far as holdbacks... there is one with a particularly unique pattern that is to die for, but it is also a for sure diffused, and so that pattern is going to go bye bye sadly. Nothing from this clutch is anything I per say need, but keeping a carmel would make it easier for me to get a better butter ratio should I pursue that later on. I'll decide on holdbacks after a couple sheds when I really know what I've got. I'm thinking the best 2 patterned normal females is what I will keep to improve my ratio. Diffused isn't something I'm particularly in love with. I have a lot of carmel carriers, and don't love carmel so much as I love butter, so I'm thinking I won't keep any diffused or carmels, and I'll let people that enjoy those morphs get them.

[candyraver69]

Still no sheds yet but colors continue to rapidly change. The checkers on the bottom and sides on the questionable diffused are darkening so that answers my question. Down to 5 diffused, which makes more sense probability wise. You guys were right.

I'll post some more pics after 1st shed :)

[blindfireak40]

Can't wait!! :D

[candyraver69]

The diffused that wasn't doing so great a few hours after birth you can't tell ever had a thing wrong. It is healthy as can be now.

I did however lose the "runt" (if you can call it that, it was the first born, but the smallest). No one has shed yet, but they are all getting very close, eye caps are very cloudy and colors drab, so I am expecting to wake up with a bunch of sheds in their containers, most if not all of them. I'll be sure to post lots of pics, I'm super excited :) Sorry if I'm posting like crazy, it's just like having a first child, it's my first clutch ever.

[blindfireak40]

Glad to hear that little guy's doin' alright, if I remember, that one had some of the strongest diffusion on him, didn't it??

Pity to hear about the first one :( But at least you've got the other 14!! And I think everyone here understands the obsessive posting hahahhaha

[candyraver69]

It's one with the completely white ventral, but it's side diffusion isn't as strong as some of the others. The strongest diffusion of all is on the one with the coolest pattern go figure haha.

Still no sheds, I'm getting all crazy. I guess it takes them longer than adults once the eyes cloud up. They aren't pros yet after all. I want to see how pretty they are! :D

I am also wanting to make sure I get them eating good and can't very well do that with them in shed. That reptile expo is coming up quickly and if I miss that opportunity I have a feeling they will be with me for many months. Oh well such is life. I planned accordingly just in case.

[stephanbakir]

Good luck man!

[candyraver69]

well, I promised pics... but I cannot find my camera charger for the life of me and the battery is dead, so that may have to wait a while till I have time to dig through wedding boxes to find it (there are a lot of boxes and that's the last time I saw the cord).

in other news... they all shed, and I have made several attempts at feeding. round one was with ft's and my carmel diffused male ate his like a champ, no one else was interested at all. I left them over night brained even, and nothing. So I put them away, and waited a few days. Tried again with the ones that didn't eat, nothing again. Today I went ahead and tried live to try and kick start them, hoping after one live feeding they might recognize them smell of the food and eat the ft's the next time around if I wiggle em, and 5 so far ate them like champs. We'll see what happens. Live is the last thing I wanted to do, believe me, but I don't want a whole clutch except one snake dying off either. I know converting is a pain, but the first meal is proving to be a pain for me to for some reason. I never thought it would be this hard. Maybe I jumped the gun a little. Any thoughts?

[candyraver69]

Okay, still no charger, but I borrow my mom's camera. Of coarse I have mixed up who's who since I took the original pics, but I think we can figure it out for the most part. Here is the first 5, I will try to get the others up tomorrow if I have time.

Normal (looks sort of carmel in this pic, but lots more red in real life, he was giving me trouble moving a lot)
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/299412_10150268505125488_549355487_7868323_730390_ n.jpg

Bloodred Carmel
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/297110_10150268505145488_549355487_7868324_3230311 _n.jpg

Normal
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/299167_10150268505165488_549355487_7868325_5932070 _n.jpg

Normal
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294247_10150268505185488_549355487_7868326_7082607 _n.jpg

Bloodred
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299675_10150268505205488_549355487_7868327_4635138 _n.jpg

[candyraver69]

Oh! and I've got them all eating well on f/t's except 3. 3 just will not take anything from me. No f/t's, no live, no brained, no fresh prekills, no scented with rat or mice smells. I may have to try lizards or something crazy soon.