Powder "The Spitzberg Beast" and Lrrr the Savannah monitor feeding!

[VaranidLover]

Hey everyone! Well it was my birthday on the 19th of July so I put a video up, So.. I thought this would be a great please to share it

Some information:

Powder is a BCI DH Snow, she is 11 months old (going to check on that to make sure tomorrow, im going just off memory)

Powder, Last time I weighed her on June 12th, she was 556 grams. (so im guessing 600 - 620 grams now) and I also recorded her length with a computer program. She was 3 foot and 6.32 inches (tomorrow, I will do this again so I can find out how big shes grown since the 12th)

Sorry for the ranting :) I just wanted to give some background info on the boa because I haven't really talked about her here.

ON TO THE VIDEO

(Watch in 720 - 1080p HD (not that it will help much)

YouTube - ‪Powder and Lrrr feeding! great strike‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwGKGs-QUMM&feature=channel_video_title)

(as to the music, I am 100% sure it is fine. I have posted this on BPnet and RTB.net and both communities are very safe when it comes to this kind of thing, so.. I am conifident it shouldn't be a problem. if it is can a moderator please contact me? Thanks!)

Hope you enjoyed the video!, Please Like, Comment and Subscribe, upcoming video :) :

I am moving Powder (hopefully tomorrow) into a 4x2x1 PVC enclosure. its going to be a natural set up, Cypress bedding, 2 huge fake plants, her water bowl and her 2 beloved hides :)

[Freebody]

cant see anything here?

[VaranidLover]

sorry, video problems

workin on it :P for now i just put the direct link. but im gonna work on getting the video up on the thread

[Jay]

You should invest in some tongs.

[Jay]

This is VarnidLover's video.
KwGKGs-QUMM
........................................

[VaranidLover]

This is VarnidLover's video.
KwGKGs-QUMM
........................................

ah thank you! for the life of me it wouldn't work lol, I tried every way possible :P

And yeah, I need tongs badly :D Should be getting some soon. But it was fun to hand feed Lrrr, hes such a puppy that he just takes it from your hand usually (he did get a little excited once though..)

Thanks!

[Jay]

I use hemostats 24" and bbq tongs they both work great the only difference was the price, bbq tongs from the dollar store hemostats off line 20 bucks.

As for the video, copy and paste every thing past the = sign, paste it in between the youtube button.
example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwGKGs-QUMM copy and paste inside the youtube button.

[VaranidLover]

I use hemostats 24" and bbq tongs they both work great the only difference was the price, bbq tongs from the dollar store hemostats off line 20 bucks.

yeah, personally I HATE the BBQ tongs, I just cant stand them. so I'm probably just gonna buy some Hemostats.

Even scarier is that I hand feed my 6 - 8 foot (not sure, cant measure him hes too vicious) macklot's python.. pooh Ive had some close calls. One time he came right out of the cage after my hand :l

so yeah :) I really need them

[infernalis]

OK, The music does not offend me, but the completely inappropriate diet does.

[stephanbakir]

OK, The music does not offend me, but the completely inappropriate diet does.
^^this

Might want to get a dubia colony going.

[VaranidLover]

OK, The music does not offend me, but the completely inappropriate diet does.

Eggs are a treat and I usually only film him eating eggs for certain reasons, but I do feed him a varied diet, some times I will give him an assortment of insects and sometimes mice but the point is he doesn't just eat eggs and mice

Thanks

[infernalis]

I'm not out to start anything... ;)

I simply do not feed mine any eggs or mice.

Want to give a real treat, get some raw shrimp or some live crayfish, now that is an ice cream cone with toppings to a Savannah.

[Jay]

there's a lot of problems associated with egg white in general I'd suggest not feeding egg at all.

[Dehlida]

Insects/inverts only. Eggs are poor for savannah monitors, especially in such large quantities.

[VaranidLover]

Ah, well I will feed him strictly inverts and mice from now on.. Where could I buy live crayfish?

[stephanbakir]

Where do you live in Canada? You can probably pay 10$ for a crayfish trap and never need to buy them.

[Dehlida]

Remove the mice from the diet. Bosc monitors in the wild do not consume mice.

[infernalis]

Have a look at this site, I love it.. The most up to date and correct information going.

The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus (http://savannahmonitor.org/)

[VaranidLover]

Where do you live in Canada? You can probably pay 10$ for a crayfish trap and never need to buy them.

I am in Newmarket Ontario, interesting thought though if possible.

also, mice and eggs are off the menu. :) purely insects and crayfish and other things of that nature, snails ect.

I am looking into setting up a insect colony, but i have no idea what to breed. Dubia's and roachs are not possible because they are illegal where I live, and cant happen in my house, and I refuse to deal with crickets.

So is there any other large feeder insect I can breed easily?

Thanks!

(Also, I have checked Sav.org and I just had differen't ideas about the information, but I fully support it now and would like to follow it a lot more)

[stephanbakir]

Canadian monitor owners are kinda stuck in that regard. I do know a Canadian vendor who sells Dubia, but as they are illegal I'd prefer not give contact info in open forum chat.
Not sure what you can feed them besides MASS amounts of crickets crayfish and shrimp.

[infernalis]

Are Locusts available in Canada?

[stephanbakir]

Not that I have found, they sell them but always frozen.

[VaranidLover]

Not that I have found, they sell them but always frozen.

ah, me and Wayne were speaking about this in private message before I saw this, thanks Stephanbakir, it appears locusts wont work :(

hmm interesting, ill look up some other things aswell, Thanks! any other ideas are greatly appreciated (for a staple feeder)

[stephanbakir]

I used to breed crayfish, its really not hard at all, but the maintenance is annoying.

[VaranidLover]

I used to breed crayfish, its really not hard at all, but the maintenance is annoying.

Can they be used as a staple food item?

I was also thinking about Hornworms :)

[Freebody]

if you look hard enouph you will find some gecko or beardie breeder close buy, i bet, that will have a few hundred dubia roachs that you can have or buy, they dont climb, they dont stink, they breed like crazy, they are very nutritious, its your best bet. it didnt take me long to find some locally a year or so ago. savs eat 75% insect in the wild, crayfish is a once on a weekend sort of thing for a treat. mine gets fresh shrimp from the deli almost every weekend, lucky sav eh :) nice video, you sav seems very "tame"

[VaranidLover]

if you look hard enouph you will find some gecko or beardie breeder close buy, i bet, that will have a few hundred dubia roachs that you can have or buy, they dont climb, they dont stink, they breed like crazy, they are very nutritious, its your best bet. it didnt take me long to find some locally a year or so ago. savs eat 75% insect in the wild, crayfish is a once on a weekend sort of thing for a treat. mine gets fresh shrimp from the deli almost every weekend, lucky sav eh :) nice video, you sav seems very "tame"

Thanks! ill see about Dubia's, they are illegal here so I don't know if I even wanna deal with them

And yeah, hes very tame. today I had him out on my bed, I layed my head sideways on the pillow and he climbed up and rested his head right besides my face, it was very cute :)

infact he loves attention so much that even after all the time outside he gets, he still scratches for 20 - 30 minutes on his cage door so I will take him out. Hes very friendly, but a handful

but thats why I love him

Thanks!

[Dehlida]

Thanks! ill see about Dubia's, they are illegal here so I don't know if I even wanna deal with them

And yeah, hes very tame. today I had him out on my bed, I layed my head sideways on the pillow and he climbed up and rested his head right besides my face, it was very cute :)

infact he loves attention so much that even after all the time outside he gets, he still scratches for 20 - 30 minutes on his cage door so I will take him out. Hes very friendly, but a handful

but thats why I love him

Thanks!
He's a solitary predator. As much as I applaud your efforts to fix husbandry, monitors do not love attention, nor need it. If a monitor is scratching at his door, something is wrong in his environment- he knows the door is out and wants to seek out a more fitting area for his needs.

[VaranidLover]

He's a solitary predator. As much as I applaud your efforts to fix husbandry, monitors do not love attention, nor need it. If a monitor is scratching at his door, something is wrong in his environment- he knows the door is out and wants to seek out a more fitting area for his needs.

why does he calm down after he is out then? Im not trying to relate bearded dragons too closely with Varanids because I know they are miles apart, but bearded dragons will scratch at the glass for hours to be takin out, then they chill out after being out for awhile.

I have a hot spot of 130 - 135, He has room to dig, and he has his own little bath tub that gets changed daily

He just wants attention, honestly.

They DO form bonds/connections with their handlers, I strongly believe that

[Dehlida]

why does he calm down after he is out then? Im not trying to relate bearded dragons too closely with Varanids because I know they are miles apart, but bearded dragons will scratch at the glass for hours to be takin out, then they chill out after being out for awhile.

I have a hot spot of 130 - 135, He has room to dig, and he has his own little bath tub that gets changed daily

He just wants attention, honestly.

They DO form bonds/connections with their handlers, I strongly believe that
He calms down because either A. husbandry requirements are now met when he is outside the cage. or B. He's scared, and playing dead. I can't even count the monitors I've seen that people claim are "tame" but in reality when you watch their behavior have just given up and lost the will to fight back.

He doesn't want your attention, honestly.

[VaranidLover]

He calms down because either A. husbandry requirements are now met when he is outside the cage. or B. He's scared, and playing dead. I can't even count the monitors I've seen that people claim are "tame" but in reality when you watch their behavior have just given up and lost the will to fight back.

He doesn't want your attention, honestly.


And, not to mention he only does this scratching and "begging" to get out when im in the room, I know because think about it, inch long nails against plexiglass for half an hour... your going to hear it throughout the house

I have only built the cage and modeled it after what HE has shown he wants.

Saying that an animal scratching to get out means the husbandry is incorrect is just wrong, go say that to all the other big lizard owners who share the same experience that I do

Temps are fine. humidity is good (because I wet the dirt often) and he has has his own little bath tub so he can hydrate himself better along with a nice big water bowl

Honestly as far as im concerned, The only thing that needs adjustment is his diet. Other than that he is fine. Ask countless other people if they have ever had a very docile monitor become attached to them, it happens.

It happened with my Sav too, I picked him up and he was very calm so I held him a lot straight away and now he loves being with me... other people is a differen't story but me he is perfectly relaxed and calm

Im not trying to start anything or argue ect, But it is an interesting discussion

[infernalis]

My chomper will scratch when he wants out to go potty, He refuses to crap in his living room, so he wants to crap in mine.

He scratches when he's hungry (whenever I feed snakes in the same room, he smells the plate of thawed out rodents and will "beg") I will confess that during a short period of his life I was just as misinformed as anyone and only AFTER reading Daniel Bennett's findings did I cease feeding rodents. Therefore to this day Chomper still associates the smell of dead mice and rats with food.

As for any interaction he simply prefers to be let roam around, I supervise, I take pictures, but the only handling he really gets is if he starts heading where he don't belong.

I have also found that he like it when I give him a shower, we used to try letting him "play" in th tub, he was always terrified, so I ended bath time, But I found a gentle lukewarm shower imitates rainfall, Rainfall also equals abundance of food, Remember Snails are part of their wild staple diet, snails only come out when it's damp, so rain equals food.

As with any exotic reptile, if you truly pay attention, your animal will tell you what is best, just have to observe their behaviour.

Savannah monitors have highly superior brains compared to snakes, and subsequently will grow bored if not provided with things to do, but it involves restraint, constant mauling by humans stresses the animal.

And yes I truly believe that throwing a hissy fit right after a roaming session is normal.

Think about it, roaming free vs. a locked cell, what would you prefer? so of course they are going to get cheesed off when you put them back, that's where most inexperienced people give in, stuff them with groceries and it will sleep under the basking lamp. NO Don't give in, You are the boss. I believe a lot of the obesity is not only poor food choices, but lack of real exercises and stimulation and people misperceive the hissy fit as begging for more food, this makes it too easy for the inexperienced person to just shovel more food in the enclosure.

Trust me, in 20 minutes time or less, it will be laying under the basking lamp anyways, or digging rooting around looking for bugs and slugs.

[VaranidLover]

My chomper will scratch when he wants out to go potty, He refuses to crap in his living room, so he wants to crap in mine.

He scratches when he's hungry (whenever I feed snakes in the same room, he smells the plate of thawed out rodents and will "beg") I will confess that during a short period of his life I was just as misinformed as anyone and only AFTER reading Daniel Bennett's findings did I cease feeding rodents. Therefore to this day Chomper still associates the smell of dead mice and rats with food.

As for any interaction he simply prefers to be let roam around, I supervise, I take pictures, but the only handling he really gets is if he starts heading where he don't belong.

I have also found that he like it when I give him a shower, we used to try letting him "play" in th tub, he was always terrified, so I ended bath time, But I found a gentle lukewarm shower imitates rainfall, Rainfall also equals abundance of food, Remember Snails are part of their wild staple diet, snails only come out when it's damp, so rain equals food.

As with any exotic reptile, if you truly pay attention, your animal will tell you what is best, just have to observe their behaviour.

Savannah monitors have highly superior brains compared to snakes, and subsequently will grow bored if not provided with things to do, but it involves restraint, constant mauling by humans stresses the animal.

And yes I truly believe that throwing a hissy fit right after a roaming session is normal.

Think about it, roaming free vs. a locked cell, what would you prefer? so of course they are going to get cheesed off when you put them back, that's where most inexperienced people give in, stuff them with groceries and it will sleep under the basking lamp. NO Don't give in, You are the boss. I believe a lot of the obesity is not only poor food choices, but lack of real exercises and stimulation and people misperceive the hissy fit as begging for more food, this makes it too easy for the inexperienced person to just shovel more food in the enclosure.

Trust me, in 20 minutes time or less, it will be laying under the basking lamp anyways, or digging rooting around looking for bugs and slugs.

Thanks Wayne :) I just do what he TELLS me, nothing more nothing less. I gave him a huge digging area, he hated it. I made it smaller, now he will actually sleep on it and dig around in it.

I had no tub in there and he would need bath's, so I put a good sized tub in and when he needs a bath I put FRESH water in, as well as changing once daily anyways

Really, my savs cage may seem uncomventional, or wrong.. but for my animal it works and he/she is healthy, active and feeding. There is no problem, and I was not feeding him badly at all

Think about it, I fed Lrrr about a 50/50 diet of insect's and mice/rats and the odd feeding of eggs.

Now, I am going to be feeding strictly insects and crayfish/snails (and things of that nature)

so Lrrr's home is good, he gets PLENTY of attention and his diet is now going to be 100% perfect. I don't see a problem :)

Thanks again

[Lankyrob]

Kudos for taking on board the change in diet! :) :)

[VaranidLover]

Kudos for taking on board the change in diet! :) :)

Thank you :)

[Dehlida]

Handling varanids stresses them out. I really don't see how you can justify such simple understood husbandry, and throw it out the window by claiming "my animal is happy and healthy!".

Seems like you know deep down you're wrong, but don't want to change what is best for the monitor, rather than what YOU want.

[Freebody]

I can say 100% their is no way handling stresses out My<< sav, my sav could care less about anything at all, he has never shown any sign of stress or fear ever, it is honestly like it just not in his brain. im not saying he likes it becuase he really could care less about anything other than food which is the only thing he does is hunt and try to taste everything moving sitting...well everything lol so in this case i see nothing wrong with my handling my sav, hes free to come and go, like wayne, i just let him do his thing tho, if he comes to me ill give him a pet, then when he walks off i just let him and just make sure hes not going anywhere hes not allowed, i let my sav out every day, and i deep down beleive,my sav is perfectly happy. so if your sav is like what im saying mine is like, than i cant see handling being a problem, but i do think if i never handled mine again he would be just as happy as long as i continued to let him out to stretch his legs, the handling truely is for me :P

[Jay]

Here we go again. lol
@Freebody. I just read your signature "Tank my min pincher" Made me laugh such a clever name. I was thinking about getting one, how is he/she?

[Gungirl]

Here we go again. lol
@Freebody. I just read your signature "Tank my min pincher" Made me laugh such a clever name. I was thinking about getting one, how is he/she?

I have to say I love min pins! I had one and he was great as long as you don't mind them talking to you ALOT! He would sit a mumble(growl) just because he could. They ( at least mine did) Take a LOT more time to house break and train but once they get the hang of it they love to please you

[marionsclan]

Handling varanids stresses them out. I really don't see how you can justify such simple understood husbandry, and throw it out the window by claiming "my animal is happy and healthy!".

Seems like you know deep down you're wrong, but don't want to change what is best for the monitor, rather than what YOU want.

Are you saying that Lrrr's owner should listen to you and disregard the monitor's personality and behavior?

[Dehlida]

Are you saying that Lrrr's owner should listen to you and disregard the monitor's personality and behavior?
His personality is not to seek out a human for "companionship". Monitors don't work that way, the monitor is seeking out something else, not love or attention.

[Freebody]

My little Tank is awsome! hes a big dog in a mini little body, but ya they love to bark, i had my dog snipped tho, becuase he would mark his territory on are stuff, well the little bugger still does, but only like once a month, he love to pee on the dirty smelly laundry, the air purifier ..... but all in all, i would get another, hes a typical lap dog, need affection at all times.

[marionsclan]

His personality is not to seek out a human for "companionship". Monitors don't work that way, the monitor is seeking out something else, not love or attention.

&#x202a;tegu-attention&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5mvOpCnvI)

[Gungirl]

My little Tank is awsome! hes a big dog in a mini little body, but ya they love to bark, i had my dog snipped tho, becuase he would mark his territory on are stuff, well the little bugger still does, but only like once a month, he love to pee on the dirty smelly laundry, the air purifier ..... but all in all, i would get another, hes a typical lap dog, need affection at all times.


Don't know if you have tried it or not but When mine did that I put a pee pad next to where he was marking and he used that instead... mine only did it 8 or 9 times then stopped...

[Freebody]

i seen him pee on some shoes, so i peed right one him....LOL jk actually the day i decided to chop him was because no matter what i did, and believe me i tried from one extreme to the other and everything in between, well like i was saying, my mother came and put her jacket on the back of a chair, and tank had been doing this alot, like every day i would find pee on the corner of somthing, well tanks walking by the jacket and as he passing by it, not even paying attention at all to the coat, stops dead in his tracks sniffs and looks at the coat give it a sniff and lifts his leg and pees right on the sleeve and just casually walked off, just a few fast sprays, !!!! I was so mad, he went outside and i got on the phone with the vet lol well it did work, he didnt change like you hear, but he did stop 99% of the sprays he was doing.

[Dehlida]

&#x202a;tegu-attention&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5mvOpCnvI)
The funny thing is, my water monitor offers a similar behavior. If I enter his cage, or open his cage, he instantly shoots straight to the top of my head. He's over 5 foot and does not like to be touched or handled at all however. In fact, if I move wrong he's more than willing to bite me, and I have to wait for him to climb down on his own accord.

Clearly; however, based upon the video behavior of the tegu- my monitor is seeking out my attention, rather than climbing me for some other reason.

[VaranidLover]

I have had my sav for awhile, I spend a lot of time with him, I have his home set up in a good way through much trial and error, hes happy how it is now. and his diet is now perfect, So whats he seeking?

He WANTS to come be with me. As soon as I come in the room he will come out of his hot hide and scratch to come out, when hes on my bed he climbs on me and sleeps, so whats wrong here?

its obvious that Lrrr wants attention, he/she is not a snake. Snakes dont care, Lrrr however is a highly intelligent monitor lizard and I dont think you give them enuogh credit for how smart and full of personality they can be

[Dehlida]

I have had my sav for awhile, I spend a lot of time with him, I have his home set up in a good way through much trial and error, hes happy how it is now. and his diet is now perfect, So whats he seeking?

He WANTS to come be with me. As soon as I come in the room he will come out of his hot hide and scratch to come out, when hes on my bed he climbs on me and sleeps, so whats wrong here?

its obvious that Lrrr wants attention, he/she is not a snake. Snakes dont care, Lrrr however is a highly intelligent monitor lizard and I dont think you give them enuogh credit for how smart and full of personality they can be
Considering that one of my monitors is litter box trained, and another one is almost litter box trained, and 2 of them have figured out latches to open doors- I would fully understand the intelligence.

Somehow, his diet is perfect (despite a long time of a bad diet with probable liver damage)- he's "happy". How do you define happy? Next thing you'll be telling me kaffir2 was a talented monitor keeper and his animals loved him- despite the fact he's one of the most laughable keepers to ever own these animals.

It's alright, clearly you know so much about monitor husbandry and how much your single sav "loves you". I'm going to leave this topic, clearly you know best. ;)

[marionsclan]

It's alright, clearly you know so much about monitor husbandry and how much your single sav "loves you". I'm going to leave this topic, clearly you know best. ;)

I am thinking that she is just as confident in her monitor being happy as you are in yours. And because we both don't know the dynamics between her and her monitor and based on the information she provided I am inclined to think that her monitor is not being abused or harmed.

In another post you mentioned that your monitor is seeking out your attention as opposed to the monitors in the video, but again that is something we can only assume because we don't know their dynamics. However, this video was a link in a web page where the owner, a Tegu breeder, talks about Tegu husbandry and how his Tegus prefer his companionship to food, that is what he showed in the video too. But I am not trying to convince you otherwise because even though we both watched the same video we both saw something different. And in the long run what only matters is that our animals/pets are happy and healthy with our individual ownership.

[VaranidLover]

I am thinking that she is just as confident in her monitor being happy as you are in yours. And because we both don't know the dynamics between her and her monitor and based on the information she provided I am inclined to think that her monitor is not being abused or harmed.

In another post you mentioned that your monitor is seeking out your attention as opposed to the monitors in the video, but again that is something we can only assume because we don't know their dynamics. However, this video was a link in a web page where the owner, a Tegu breeder, talks about Tegu husbandry and how his Tegus prefer his companionship to food, that is what he showed in the video too. But I am not trying to convince you otherwise because even though we both watched the same video we both saw something different. And in the long run what only matters is that our animals/pets are happy and healthy with our individual ownership.

Thank you very much, but side note, Definitely a guy :) LOL

however, im not sure about my Sav. He/she is smaller, so im assuming female?

I appreciate the kind words. As you said, im not mistreating or abusing my animal in any way shape or form. I feed Lrrr right, and I have always fed the little buddy good :)

Dehlida honestly I just fed things you are opposed to, that doesn't mean im a bad keeper or person for feeding differen't meals for awhile. I fed, like I said, a 50/50 diet of insects and mice/rats and eggs.

So instead of 50% of his diet being insects, now its more like 90% and the rest is crayfish and snails.. things like that.

I give him tons of affection, which like it or not, he really enjoys

and he has a cage set up just the way he likes it after much trial and error

Again, there is no issue. I sound like a broken record :l

Thanks again :)

[Dehlida]

Wasn't going to comment on your lack of understanding of handling a monitor however...

"I just fed things you are opposed to". I'm opposed to? The diet you where giving your bosc monitor was WRONG. It has nothing to do with what I like- it has to do with simple science.

The more you talk the more you remind me of the typical monitor keeper today- read some info online, but only takes bits and pieces of the information that you WANT to hear.

[Gungirl]

Dehlida... you seem to troll ALOT.. drop it you have your way and they have theirs..

[Dehlida]

Dehlida... you seem to troll ALOT.. drop it you have your way and they have theirs..
How is stating the proper diet for a bosc monitor trolling? I'm not dropping it. It's basic husbandry, if you can't care for an animal properly- don't own it. There is no "other way of doing it". Hell, you'd probably have a healthier monitor feeding your savannah chicken nuggets than rodents !

[marionsclan]

How is stating the proper diet for a bosc monitor trolling? I'm not dropping it. It's basic husbandry, if you can't care for an animal properly- don't own it. There is no "other way of doing it". Hell, you'd probably have a healthier monitor feeding your savannah chicken nuggets than rodents !

Please read this article. It explains in detail the pros and cons of feeding a monitor rodents.

Michael Balsai on the Savannah Monitor Diet (http://www.anapsid.org/balsai.html)

[VaranidLover]

I have heard about sav's surviving on just rats, their whole life. The point isthat its not the OPTIMAL food item, it can and has been done. That doesnt matter though because I have a superworm colony going now

Lrrr loves them and they are going to be taken care of and very nutritious, They will make up a lot of his diet and I will feed him snails and crayfish whenever possible, whole shrimp too :)

Ok, I fed him less than optimal food for a few months (not really because I also fed him insects a lot during that time too) and now his diet is going to be perfect, so whats your problem? Really :l

[Dehlida]

Please read this article. It explains in detail the pros and cons of feeding a monitor rodents.

Michael Balsai on the Savannah Monitor Diet (http://www.anapsid.org/balsai.html)
Anything from Kaplan's page should be disregarded, she's a laughing stock among serious keepers.

Shall I go try and dig up the photos of a sav who died at an early age and had a necropsy done? You guessed it, fatty liver killed it very early.

Go look up Daniel Bennett's study, no one cares what some joke of a keeper like Kaplan posts on their page.

[Jay]

Anything from Kaplan's page should be disregarded, she's a laughing stock among serious keepers.

Shall I go try and dig up the photos of a sav who died at an early age and had a necropsy done? You guessed it, fatty liver killed it very early.

Go look up Daniel Bennett's study, no one cares what some joke of a keeper like Kaplan posts on their page.

Where is your page, Kaplan's has more experience then you, stop bantering other keepers. I'm not going to tell you what I feed my Sav, I dont need to be judged by an internet random.

[Jay]

The only thing questionable is her heat is to low, and she recommends keeping them on paper.

[infernalis]

Where is your page, Kaplan's has more experience then you, stop bantering other keepers. I'm not going to tell you what I feed my Sav, I dont need to be judged by an internet random.


OK, I shall chime in on this one. Melissa Kaplan is doing her best to update her information, I have seen changes in her Savannah pages already, She's continually researching and adding new content, eventually it will be much better.

I simply have to applaud her efforts, she became handicapped helping animals, she dedicates her life to animals, and she publishes all of it to help others and improve the lives of captive animals.

[Dehlida]

Where is your page, Kaplan's has more experience then you, stop bantering other keepers. I'm not going to tell you what I feed my Sav, I dont need to be judged by an internet random.
I don't have time for a page, there are a few good websites available that I'd rather point people to, rather than being redundant. Don't tell me what you feed your sav Jay, I could care less- however if you do post saying "I feed mine chicken nuggets and cheetos" I'm going to tell you its a bad diet, despite what you think.

The only thing questionable is her heat is to low, and she recommends keeping them on paper.
She misses all the fundamentals of bosc monitor care. Would you like me to point it out bit by bit? I'd be glad to.

OK, I shall chime in on this one. Melissa Kaplan is doing her best to update her information, I have seen changes in her Savannah pages already, She's continually researching and adding new content, eventually it will be much better.

I simply have to applaud her efforts, she became handicapped helping animals, she dedicates her life to animals, and she publishes all of it to help others and improve the lives of captive animals.
For a page so frequently referenced (wrongly so), it should be updated better or taken down until she has the time to fix it. I don't see how it takes a tremendous load of time to change substrate: dirt, diet: insects, heat: 130-140 degree basking temps, provide high humidity. ETC. If she is as knowledgeable as people claim, she would have done this years ago. You know, when everyone else who keeps monitors properly figured it out.

[marionsclan]

For a page so frequently referenced (wrongly so), it should be updated better or taken down until she has the time to fix it. I don't see how it takes a tremendous load of time to change substrate: dirt, diet: insects, heat: 130-140 degree basking temps, provide high humidity. ETC. If she is as knowledgeable as people claim, she would have done this years ago. You know, when everyone else who keeps monitors properly figured it out.

Well, maybe she is as busy as you are. However, if you are really such an expert when it comes to monitor husbandry then I would highly suggest you put out a web page sharing your knowledge and expertise to prevent any more monitors being abused and to educate people in your way, or the highway, of proper monitor husbandry. Don't deprive people of what you know. Let it out and shout it to the world.

[reptile65]

How is stating the proper diet for a bosc monitor trolling? I'm not dropping it. It's basic husbandry, if you can't care for an animal properly- don't own it. There is no "other way of doing it". Hell, you'd probably have a healthier monitor feeding your savannah chicken nuggets than rodents !

Just drop it already. You've clearly stated your way of doing things. The OP has already stated that he is making changes to his monitor's diet. Shoving your way of doing things down a person's throat is not the best way to give advice.

[infernalis]

I don't have time for a page, there are a few good websites available that I'd rather point people to, rather than being redundant. Don't tell me what you feed your sav Jay, I could care less- however if you do post saying "I feed mine chicken nuggets and cheetos" I'm going to tell you its a bad diet, despite what you think.


She misses all the fundamentals of bosc monitor care. Would you like me to point it out bit by bit? I'd be glad to.


For a page so frequently referenced (wrongly so), it should be updated better or taken down until she has the time to fix it. I don't see how it takes a tremendous load of time to change substrate: dirt, diet: insects, heat: 130-140 degree basking temps, provide high humidity. ETC. If she is as knowledgeable as people claim, she would have done this years ago. You know, when everyone else who keeps monitors properly figured it out.


I personally don't recommend following Melissa's instructions, I always point people to The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus (http://savannahmonitor.org/) this place has is act together and looks at it with common sense.

The more I look into the natural diet of these animals, the more options I see available that are far better than rodents or dog food, turky eggs.. etc.

Snails, Crustaceans, Mussels, worms and bugs gives a decent variety to work with. Big raw shrimp are like candy to a Savannah, and good for them too.

[crocdoc]

Interesting thread. My 2 cents' worth:

I'm not a fan of Kaplan's advice on monitor care. The other link provided, savannahmonitor.org, was set up by someone I know who was motivated by the frustration of seeing hundreds of new keepers appear on the forums every year, at the peak of savannah monitor season (when the pet stores are inundated), all using the same, bad, pet-store recommended setups. Rather than keep re-inventing the wheel each time by typing the same advice over and over, he put up the site so people could link it. I think it's an excellent site and I direct people to it all of the time.

As for the monitor scratching to be let out, I agree that it's unlikely to be because the monitor is seeking human company for the sake of attention. However, I don't think it is necessarily due to poor husbandry, either (unless the monitor is scratching to be let out constantly). My lace monitors have learned that crawling onto me means being let out of the enclosure for a wander around so they can explore. Consequently, as soon as they see me emerge from my room they go straight down to the allotted spot (I will only let them out of one end of the enclosure) and climb onto my hand to be let out.

A video of this can be seen here: youtube video of handling routine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxeB8kYPP0A)
(yes, I'm aware there is a proper youtube link function on this forum, but after several failed attempts I figured I'd link it the old fashioned way).

It's not because their enclosure is inadequate. Monitors have a need to explore their home range to keep track of basking areas, hide spots, available food and other monitors. In the wild, many species are virtually perpetual motion machines, constantly wandering around, even when they're not particularly hungry. I even have a video of a wild lace monitor that had recently gorged, and whose belly was almost touching the ground, wandering around exploring. After a while, even the largest of enclosures will have been covered so many times that the monitors develop a 'been there, done that' attitude and don't bother any more. The world outside their enclosure is different, however, for it changes constantly. My monitors know this and consequently love being let out. If I am sitting in a convenient spot and they can't get back into their enclosure to bask, they'll sometimes even lie on me to get some warmth. I've never been under the impression that their attitude towards me was anything other than what it seems - I am simply a conduit to the outside world, a source of food and a warm 'thing' to rest on occasionally. They don't seek my company. Wild monitors aren't particularly social animals so I can't imagine captives suddenly developing this urge. They don't freak out when I put them back in the enclosure, either. They know when I am picking them up that they are going back inside and their usual reaction is to calmly head up to the basking spot.

As for the tegus in that video - I've seen that video before and, in my opinion, it doesn't tell the whole story, or certainly not enough for us to jump to conclusions about why the tegus are climbing on their keeper. All we're seeing is a keeper entering a fairly crowded enclosure and tegus wanting to climb onto him. What we aren't seeing is what he normally does with the tegus after they climb on him. Clearly not what he's doing in that video (ie putting them back down) or, unless they were remarkably stupid, they would have stopped climbing on him ages ago. So we can guess that he probably does something different when they climb on him, which they find rewarding. He may normally take the ones that climb onto him outside the enclosure to explore elsewhere. For all we know, he may even feed them treats when they are outside the enclosure, so they immediately associate climbing on him with good things they don't normally get.