Goodbye

[Jay]

This forum is a joke. It was great for a while but now...It has lost its point (to gain knowledge, from experienced keepers) Every Thread has nonsense in it. I dont want to be any part of this Joke.

[infernalis]

Don't be like that.

You already know better. So I was outside enjoying some fresh air.. the thread is closed, let's all just get along.

[Jenn_06]

i know there are people on here that are acting like little kids its making me think about going too but they are some good people that are here to help and not just fights and act stupid.

[Jay]

I'm embarrassed I sunk down to his level. Marvel freak is right. I wouldn't want to take advice from someone who acts so childish. So I have no reason to even post.

[Max713]

I can't believe you acted like that either... thought you were a level headed person.

[Jay]

Yeah I messed up.

[ilovemypets1988]

even i have to admit, that in the short time that ive known you on here jay, youve always come across as a highly intelligent, level headed person that cant be swayed by some low minded thinking my friend, i honestly dont know what thread your talking about so i cant say much to that, but i can say something with regards to your personality and to be stuping this low is completely out of character for you, its actually quite surprising to see you react this way tbh.

on a side note for everyone, no one is worth lowering yourselves in any way shape or form, its just not worth giving these people the satisfaction and the possibility of loosing some friendships that you have built up in the process by reacting without thinking things through first.

[marvelfreak]

I'm embarrassed I sunk down to his level. Marvel freak is right. I wouldn't want to take advice from someone who acts so childish. So I have no reason to even post.
Jay don't leave i was just try to make a point, but how childish it would look to someone new reading it. That is most likely what they would be thinking. Your a very knowledgeable member. I am sorry if i offend you. We have all done it at one point or another. Passion about our hobby and pets can some times make us all over react. Emotion can be a powerful thing. Plus i was trying to lighten the mood. The reason for the :rolleyes: at the end. Please stay I meant no hard feeling. Chuck

[TeaNinja]

I'm embarrassed I sunk down to his level. Marvel freak is right. I wouldn't want to take advice from someone who acts so childish. So I have no reason to even post.

l o l

[stephanbakir]

"gotta love a thread made about me. cry yourself a river 'til you drown. " lil bit excessive? especially considering it "might" not have been you specifically that he is referring to...

[TeaNinja]

yep, that's why i edited it before you even posted. but that is what i wrote the first time, yes. it was me he was referring to lol, hence why your "might" was in quotations.

[Jay]

l o l
Point......

[Max713]

"gotta love a thread made about me. cry yourself a river 'til you drown. " lil bit excessive? especially considering it "might" not have been you specifically that he is referring to...

Exactly.

Teaninja, you need to just get out of here as you obviously having nothing but harm to cause in this thread. You've made yourself look plenty childish in threads prior, why drag it out further!

[TeaNinja]

you made a post about it.......if you're going to leave, leave. why make a post so you guys could talk about how childish i am and how you're all above it. good for you, but seems pretty ...pointless to me. if anything it kind of feels like you're poking at me again to try to provoke something.


lol, everyone knows me so well and accurately. it's nice :)

[lpbldg18]

wtf is this highschool? how about we talk snakes? not this drama bs?
nice carpet jay

[Jay]

I over reacted Tea, I'm sorry. You have every right to your own opinion, who am I to say otherwise. Your spelling is phenomenal. I am sure you also take great care of all your reptiles. We were both out of line sorry.

[Gungirl]

Jay.. please don't leave. I am fairly new to this hobby and forum but I still have seen how helpful and knowledgeable you can be. I would not be happy to see that the forum I joined is loosing good members. Take a few days away from the forum and get your head back into why you are here in the first place, then come back with a clean slate.

[Jay]

This thread was a childish mistake (my last one) I will be here to offer advice and photos for everyone.

[TeaNinja]

i believe you are being sarcastic, and aside from your poke at my spelling and grammar i agree with you except you can say whatever you want about my opinions, isn't that the point of a debate? the entire reason this bull **** got started was because i disagree'd with dehidas opinion that you and he seem to think is a fact. not a big deal, although it seems to have become one.

and now it seems you're just trying to shut the door by being sarcastic and saying whatever you think i want to hear; shame.

[marionsclan]

Oh come on, boys. Kiss and make-up. ;)

[SnakeyJay]

Its like facebook lol.. Hence why I donr have an account.
This arguament and many like it has just got blown out of proportion. Everyones here for pretty much the same reason, share/gain knowledge and to "chat" to people with the same interest. Please lets try and remember that. I dont mean to but in btw, ive learnt quite abit from reading jays posts... And tea, you amuse me to hell most days. This forum benefits from both of you.

[SnakeyJay]

oops.. double post

[Max713]

Snakebook! Ya!

[SnakeyJay]

Snakebook! Ya!

Love it !!!

[Max713]

*Looks for "like" button*

[SnakeyJay]

Oh dont... I really dont like facebook.. Set up an account about 6 months ago went on there for about 10 mins and left hating it lol. Ssoo petty.

[Max713]

Oh dont... I really dont like facebook.. Set up an account about 6 months ago went on there for about 10 mins and left hating it lol. Ssoo petty.

That was the joke... haha

[Lankyrob]

Jay, you made a mistake, we have all done it. Leaving now would just compound that mistake. You have proven your maturity by admitting your error. Lets all take a deep breath and mvove on.

[whoaxmary]

Boys, boys, boys~ Take a step back from the computers, go spend some time with a pet or something else, and forget all this.
Not worth it, I don't want to go through losseing another great memeber so soon after another one returns.
We love you all. Smiles, rainbows, puppies, unicorns, and snakes. ;p

[forza_inter]

^^^ this ^^^

[forza_inter]

lmaooooooooooooo

Snakebook! Ya!

[Dehlida]

I'm going to post here as well, due to the fact a lot of it was because of me.

I want it to be well known, by various people here. I have a tremendous amount of reptile experience, I'm not bragging, but over the years I can't really name any animal available that I haven't kept. Over the past several years I've found myself attracted to one specific type of lizard- varanids.

I keep many varanus sp. I breed a few as well, and I'm starting work on the indicus complex itself now, one very little known or studied nor classified properly. While Teaninja, I will admit I was out of line arguing I will say one thing. When I first got into monitors, I behaved the exact same way as you, thought the same way as you, had "opinions" on certain matters- just as you do. I had a couple friends who had young niloticus and bosc monitors, and I thought so highly of them (they both died under 3 years old). It wasn't until I started doing proper research I was told the exact same things I tell you now. I was treated the same way, and I was told bluntly that I was wrong, and to fix my husbandry. I disregarded this, kept a monitor MY WAY, handled it all the time, and it died in short order. It wouldn't eat right, never came out to bask, and did poorly. Why? I stressed him to death, the same thing that happens to many many captive varanid species. I tried again and took the educated individuals advice into consideration. I now have many happy animals in my care, who I CAN interact with, however I do not.

I'm not sorry for the way I handled things, I will not apologize or leave the forum over it. In my eyes maybe someone will search google and find that thread and hopefully my information will guide them down the right path. I would rather spread proper husbandry information that myself and fellow varanid enthusiasts (crocdoc/daniel) have worked hard to get into public eyes.

I'm tired of the same view of varanus sp. that most people have. The same few that "kaffir2/danceswithsavs" reject spread about. I'm tired of countless emails asking "what's wrong with my monitor". I'm tired of hundreds imporanted and 99.9% of them never even reaching half of their expected life span. These animals are amazing and deserve more than most in the pet trade can give them.

So I'll ask nicely to both Teaninja, and others. If you have no experience or idea what you are talking about. Please do everyone involved a favor and leave the topic alone. For all of our sakes, and the monitors some of us are trying to better the captive care of.

[TeaNinja]

lol i really must say Dehlida, you put an aweful taste in my mouth. the fact that you think i would overhandle the animal AT ALL letalone stress it to death just goes to show that you don't know me and can save your judgement for someone else. i still stick to my opinion that little to regular handling is perfectly fine because i know it is, within reason. i'm sorry you stressed your animal to death but to just assume or even insinuate that i would do the same without knowing me or what i know is kind of rude, which got me all riled up in the first place.

not to mention, you've been questioning my knowledge and husbandry and saying i'll kill all my "beginner pets" and for nobody to listen to anything i say, without any real knowledge of what i know except your judgement on me from my opinion about monitors. you and all your claimed herp knowledge mean nothing if i can't stomach your words.

this time i actually am done.

[marionsclan]

So I'll ask nicely to both Teaninja, and others. If you have no experience or idea what you are talking about. Please do everyone involved a favor and leave the topic alone. For all of our sakes, and the monitors some of us are trying to better the captive care of.

Let me preclude that I have no lizard/monitor experience whatsoever, but I have been reading a lot about snakes and various other reptiles just to get a broad overlook as to what they are all about (I took a deeper look when it came to BPs and other reptiles I am planning on getting). And during my research I have come across several individuals who handle their animal on a daily basis and those animals have grown to be quite old (10+ years depending on species). Now, are those the exceptions to your rule or are you the exception to their rule?

Please don't take offense to my question. I am simply trying to figure out whose 'facts' have validity, in other words, can be repeated with the same results. There are lots of people out there who stand as firm as you do in their opinion and as a noob like me it is sometimes very hard to do the right thing based on varied opinions.

[Max713]

We need a "beating a dead horse" smiley.

[marionsclan]

We need a "beating a dead horse" smiley.

Hey, no beating my horse. I've only got a pony. ;)

[Isaac's Ark]

Ok guys I can diagnose this for you if you all want lol this is a classic case of first year experts syndrome lol not in any way a professional term lol it is hard to combat because the information seems to be legit because it is presented in a seemingly proper way but is chock full of in accurate or out right wrong information. If you are reading this post and you just started in the hobby be mindful of this behavior we unfortunately all go threw it sort of like puberty cant quite avoid it lol. As we debate this stuff till we are blue in the face the mods work so hard to keep it clean and then bang it blows up before any one can extinguish the flames. For instance I am a pro I have been for 12 years now lol and i will be the first to tell you I know a very few things about a very few things but the things I know I know that I know them lol that is 12 years of professional experience talking here 3 years as a grunt cage cleaner 2 years of college to obtain my animal science diploma 5 year apprenticeship and these last 2 years preparing to grace this wonderful stage. I have submitted my credentials for one reason and one reason only this thread can be very useful if the breeders on here come clean as I have seen a few do and admit that this is a correctable behavior that even the pros can relate to we have seen it done it and have had to defend against it and sometimes we actually get all wrapped in it trust me 12 years into this I just caught my self ripping a entire reptile forum a new A$$ because the deleted a post that they deemed as spam I lost my ever living mind like I ever intetionaly spam these kind of sites lol i found my self typing childish remarks that was just last night I had to stop my self and ask my self $#IT dude how old are you again lol it is the second hardest thing in this industry next to actually taking care of our animals.

I guess we may as well go first lol
So yes we are Isaac's Ark and we were once a first year expert 11 years ago now we are a boa breeder that knows nothing and we are just trying to discover new things and having a blast doing so.

I wounder if this post will help this thread or kill it only time will tell but till then heads up mods we got a live one over here grab me the hook so I can wrangle the hatching's up we better tuck this one away before it bites some one. LOL I love reptile innuendo sorry I know this was a serious thread just for the love of everything that is holy we take bites from animals that most people would run miles from and we are going to cry on a website. I know it is called blood sweat and tears but seriously you bleed in your sink you sweat in you room and cry when a project dies not when some one with 3 snakes tries to discredit you work about varanids. Just trust me on this one don't pet it and it will go away. Ya I went there I said it want to fight about it did not think so you just want the hay days back when ssnakess.com was a Canadian based site before being sold.

Over handling can lead to stress that can lead to an animal going off feed that can lead to death problem here is that mostly species specific there for what you can get away with one species will utterly destroy another this is why it is hard to offer advice on this level of husbandry skill sets

[SnakeyJay]

It doesnt matter who owns a forum... Its the members that make it what it is.

[red ink]

WOW.... just finished reading the "other" thread, I jump on it to read it after reading this one (at least I think it's "the" thread) . I don't know what to say really.... I'm really just here shaking my head. WOW.

[Lankyrob]

I'm going to post here as well, due to the fact a lot of it was because of me.

I want it to be well known, by various people here. I have a tremendous amount of reptile experience, I'm not bragging, but over the years I can't really name any animal available that I haven't kept. Over the past several years I've found myself attracted to one specific type of lizard- varanids.

I keep many varanus sp. I breed a few as well, and I'm starting work on the indicus complex itself now, one very little known or studied nor classified properly. While Teaninja, I will admit I was out of line arguing I will say one thing. When I first got into monitors, I behaved the exact same way as you, thought the same way as you, had "opinions" on certain matters- just as you do. I had a couple friends who had young niloticus and bosc monitors, and I thought so highly of them (they both died under 3 years old). It wasn't until I started doing proper research I was told the exact same things I tell you now. I was treated the same way, and I was told bluntly that I was wrong, and to fix my husbandry. I disregarded this, kept a monitor MY WAY, handled it all the time, and it died in short order. It wouldn't eat right, never came out to bask, and did poorly. Why? I stressed him to death, the same thing that happens to many many captive varanid species. I tried again and took the educated individuals advice into consideration. I now have many happy animals in my care, who I CAN interact with, however I do not.

I'm not sorry for the way I handled things, I will not apologize or leave the forum over it. In my eyes maybe someone will search google and find that thread and hopefully my information will guide them down the right path. I would rather spread proper husbandry information that myself and fellow varanid enthusiasts (crocdoc/daniel) have worked hard to get into public eyes.

I'm tired of the same view of varanus sp. that most people have. The same few that "kaffir2/danceswithsavs" reject spread about. I'm tired of countless emails asking "what's wrong with my monitor". I'm tired of hundreds imporanted and 99.9% of them never even reaching half of their expected life span. These animals are amazing and deserve more than most in the pet trade can give them.

So I'll ask nicely to both Teaninja, and others. If you have no experience or idea what you are talking about. Please do everyone involved a favor and leave the topic alone. For all of our sakes, and the monitors some of us are trying to better the captive care of.

Not gonna add much except - IF you had approached the other thread in this manner and tone there is a good chance that it wouldnt have blown up.

It is difficult to "argue" on a forum because 95% of communication is non verbal so we are only getting 5% of the communication the person is trying to put forward. At times we all get emotional about a subject and post things in a reactionary way rather than sitting back and thinking about waht we type and how it will be taken by others.

Something i find good is to type my anger into a response and then delete it and respond "properly". :)

[infernalis]

. Smiles, rainbows, puppies, unicorns, and snakes. ;p

This....................

[Gungirl]

more like- smiles, snakes, guns, coffee, and trucks!!!! bahahahaha

[infernalis]

more like- smiles, snakes, guns, coffee, and trucks!!!! bahahahaha


And explosions!! can't forget explosions.

[Gungirl]

ohh how dare I forget that one...

[Isaac's Ark]

no no can not be forgetting the explosions I may be Canadian but we like to blow ***** up too *watching the Americans falling for the, the glassier is melting line..* no no boys & girls explosions all about the boom. And maybe the splash too LOL but more about the boom LOL

[stephanbakir]

We Canadian can be destructive :P I built my first weapon when I was about 14 years old lol, hand held Molotov Cocktail spray gun thingy :P Range 10 feet :)

[reptile65]

Ok guys I can diagnose this for you if you all want lol this is a classic case of first year experts syndrome lol not in any way a professional term lol it is hard to combat because the information seems to be legit because it is presented in a seemingly proper way but is chock full of in accurate or out right wrong information. If you are reading this post and you just started in the hobby be mindful of this behavior we unfortunately all go threw it sort of like puberty cant quite avoid it lol. As we debate this stuff till we are blue in the face the mods work so hard to keep it clean and then bang it blows up before any one can extinguish the flames. For instance I am a pro I have been for 12 years now lol and i will be the first to tell you I know a very few things about a very few things but the things I know I know that I know them lol that is 12 years of professional experience talking here 3 years as a grunt cage cleaner 2 years of college to obtain my animal science diploma 5 year apprenticeship and these last 2 years preparing to grace this wonderful stage. I have submitted my credentials for one reason and one reason only this thread can be very useful if the breeders on here come clean as I have seen a few do and admit that this is a correctable behavior that even the pros can relate to we have seen it done it and have had to defend against it and sometimes we actually get all wrapped in it trust me 12 years into this I just caught my self ripping a entire reptile forum a new A$$ because the deleted a post that they deemed as spam I lost my ever living mind like I ever intetionaly spam these kind of sites lol i found my self typing childish remarks that was just last night I had to stop my self and ask my self $#IT dude how old are you again lol it is the second hardest thing in this industry next to actually taking care of our animals.

I guess we may as well go first lol
So yes we are Isaac's Ark and we were once a first year expert 11 years ago now we are a boa breeder that knows nothing and we are just trying to discover new things and having a blast doing so.

I wounder if this post will help this thread or kill it only time will tell but till then heads up mods we got a live one over here grab me the hook so I can wrangle the hatching's up we better tuck this one away before it bites some one. LOL I love reptile innuendo sorry I know this was a serious thread just for the love of everything that is holy we take bites from animals that most people would run miles from and we are going to cry on a website. I know it is called blood sweat and tears but seriously you bleed in your sink you sweat in you room and cry when a project dies not when some one with 3 snakes tries to discredit you work about varanids. Just trust me on this one don't pet it and it will go away. Ya I went there I said it want to fight about it did not think so you just want the hay days back when ssnakess.com was a Canadian based site before being sold.

Over handling can lead to stress that can lead to an animal going off feed that can lead to death problem here is that mostly species specific there for what you can get away with one species will utterly destroy another this is why it is hard to offer advice on this level of husbandry skill sets

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I am not trying to be rude at all. Can you please try to include some punctuation in your posts? I find huge blocks of text with little to no punctuation to be very difficult to read.

[citysnakes]

I just finished reading through the thread that is the cause of all this and want to say a few things.

Dehlida was making some extremely valid points and was the only one in the entire thread doing so. I agree with Dehlida's entire stance on the monitor issue as this is the case with the majority of captive reptiles in general.

If you felt Dehlida's statements were simply to "get a rise out" of others then you are probably a keeper that needs to do some more research.

If i was a moderator I would have warned and banned TeaNinja very early on in that thread. Not only did this user initiate the personal attacks but his opinion was an uneducated one with no experience backing it up. He later admits (in all caps) that he knows nothing about the issue and that he is a pot head... someone you'd want monitor advice from?

I do respect everything Wayne is doing for this forum and he does do a lot but i do have to say that its moderation mediocre at best. There is lots of favoritism and many threads continue past the point of any amount of usefulness.

I do agree that this forum has taken an unfavorable turn and is one reason why I do not post much anymore. Too many threads are just high school dramatic with no good info on reptiles.

Just my .02

[Max713]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/beating-a-dead-horse-2.jpg

[KrazyKat]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/beating-a-dead-horse-2.jpg

LMAO this is SO appropriate, thanks Max, I got a good laugh out of this :p

[marvelfreak]

so you just want the hay days back when ssnakess.com was a Canadian based site before being sold. I believe Boots the owner is Canadian.

[TeaNinja]

lol, funny.

[Gungirl]

this thread is almost becoming another that should get closed... guys leave it be what was said was said and move on. Max was right on.. no reason to beat a dead horse!

[infernalis]

I believe Boots the owner is Canadian.


Yes he is.