At wits end :(

[unknownclown]

So we got 2 baby BPs from the pet store for $30 each when asked why they were cheaper than the rest we were told that it is because they hadnt gotten them to eat. Well... its been probably about a little over month now and the poor babies look terrible and its breaking my heart.
I have tried live fuzzy mice, ft fuzzies, pinky rats both live and thawed. I have tried feeding them in thier tanks so I wouldnt disturb them and I have also tried in a paper bag over night. Never have I had this kind of problem before.
My other BPs did go off food at times I know its to be expected and I wouldnt stress it if one of them wasnt looking deflated from not eating. Im worried but we dont have any decent herp vets here. Anyone have any suggestions? I really couldnt stand to lose them... Guess I should learn my lesson on buying snakes that dont have the propper start on life but more than likely I will do it again out of feeling bad for the babies... :no:

[stephanbakir]

Are the temps and humidity ok? Any pics so we can understand "look terrible" knowing how they look can help us help you.
are they in a high traffic are of the house? direct sunlight?

[unknownclown]

No direct sunlight and away from traffic in the home I willl take pics when I get home from work which should be in a couple of hours

[stephanbakir]

alright, hmm. Hides in warm+ cold end? proper humidity +temp?

[ilovemypets1988]

if the worse comes to the worse, then unfortunately, you will have to consider assist feeding, i aint gunna explain it fully as ive never had to do it myself but i will explain the basics (as i understand it):

assist feeding is where you put the feed animal into the mouth to give the snake a taste of it.

or you could:

brain the mouse;
this is where you make a cut in the mouses or rats skull exposing the brain matter which should instigate the natural kill and eat behaviour (but please dont do this to a live animal - kill it first)

if these things dont work, theres only 2 other solutions:

1.) force feed the snake (sending the feed animal down the throat by hand - i dont like the process myself but sometimes it has to be done)

2.) the final resort,
now before i say this, just thinking about it makes me upset but if nothing else can be done, then:
euthanize the snakes and put an end to the suffering (sorry if this offends anyone - its not meant to)

[SpOoKy]

Brain the rats, heat up some chicken broth and dip the rats in the warm broth. Works 99.2% of the time. :)

[stephanbakir]

Thems schientific percentages right there!

[marionsclan]

I'm concerned about the chicken broth because the sodium is in the hundreds and I've heard that salt can kill snakes.

[stephanbakir]

Make your own :)

[TeaNinja]

i love homemade chicken broth lol, and homemade gravy and mashed potatoes.......*drool*

[marionsclan]

Make your own :)

That's a lot of chicken broth just to dip one rodent in it and it only lasts so long. Prolly need to think of a more practical method.

[stephanbakir]

I have a practical method, think of something to make for dinner that involves chicken broth, and eat it once a week until the snake eats.

[TeaNinja]

i was totally about to say, eat chicken soup for dinner :) lol

[NennaMeerkat]

I have a practical method, think of something to make for dinner that involves chicken broth, and eat it once a week until the snake eats.

God and there are SO many good things you can eat chicken and chicken broth with/in.

Seriously though...if you want to get these snakes to eat I think it would be worth "wasting" chicken and broth for. I know I have "wasted" money at one time or another for all of my animals...its just worth it to see them eating and not dying.

[marionsclan]

Yeah about that.... liking it? Not so much.

[stephanbakir]

Liking? You don't like chicken broth or spending money?
There are cheap ways of making it that cost pennies, and actually make a decent meal.

[stephanbakir]

i believe he was referring to planting them, regarding what type of soil to use.
Wow, wrong post, was meant to be directed at jay.

[NennaMeerkat]

I also heard that tuna or salmon juice can work as well. Not sure how founded it is though...

[stephanbakir]

I've tried tuna juice smeared on a mouse to get a wild garter to eat once. It worked.

[SpOoKy]

Tuna works also but I find chicken broth to be the best. Got to the store and buy the mini snack ziplock baggies and when you open a can divide the rest of the can into small "dip-able" portions and freeze it.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

1.) force feed the snake (sending the feed animal down the throat by hand - i dont like the process myself but sometimes it has to be done)


Ive had to result to this with a snake im still keeping, tube assist feeding... She took her prey and eats every time now. Its a proven method, a lot of people say its to stressful but it works.

[stephanbakir]

It works, but should be kept as a LAST RESORT

[shaunyboy]

once you post pictures it will give us an idea of the condition of the snakes

if they are in a bad way then the methods i'd suggest will be more extreme

if they are not in really bad health.....

put their tanks where the least human traffic is at your house,then give them peace and quiet going near them only to change the water every 5 or so days

leave them for 10 days to settle

then offer food as its getting dark,be as quiet as possible lift the tub lid and offer heated prey item on tongs.you will have to read the snake and if its acting nervous instead of offering on tongs, i would leave the item in over night.

i'm not having a go but you have listed an awfull lot of feeding attempts for only having them 4 weeks

the shop should not have sold non feeders in the first place but since its done now we must concentrate on getting them eating

mykee would be the expert on balls and he would have much more knowledge on just how many hatchlings tend to need such extreme methods as assist fed to get them going.(its only carpets i keep)

so mykee ?

cheers shaun

[ilovemypets1988]

once you post pictures it will give us an idea of the condition of the snakes

if they are in a bad way then the methods i'd suggest will be more extreme

if they are not in really bad health.....

put their tanks where the least human traffic is at your house,then give them peace and quiet going near them only to change the water every 5 or so days

leave them for 10 days to settle

then offer food as its getting dark,be as quiet as possible lift the tub lid and offer heated prey item on tongs.you will have to read the snake and if its acting nervous instead of offering on tongs, i would leave the item in over night.

i'm not having a go but you have listed an awfull lot of feeding attempts for only having them 4 weeks

the shop should not have sold non feeders in the first place but since its done now we must concentrate on getting them eating

mykee would be the expert on balls and he would have much more knowledge on just how many hatchlings tend to need such extreme methods as assist fed to get them going.(its only carpets i keep)

so mykee ?

cheers shaun

i didnt think of that tbh, the methods i listed are the only things i can think of as they are regularly thought of when the ball pythons feeding comes up, luckily though, i have never had to do any of them and hope i never have to.

however if the situation would arise, then i would use what ever means is necessary to help my snakes feed while understanding that in the wild, they wouldnt eat as regularly as they do in captivity in the first place.

[unknownclown]

Well my hubby was on the computer all night last night and I couldnt post pics :(
I did manage to check this post last night and decided I would brain a pinky rat. YUCKY I went to use a knife since I figured it would be easiest and darn near cut the head in half... forgot how soft them heads are :-P I put her in a box with it and as of this morning she still hasnt eaten... :-(

[ilovemypets1988]

if u want, you can email me the pics and i will put them up for you

[mykee]

Chicken broth; what a load of crayp!
There are no chickens in Africa, it's an old wives tale.
AND if they get a taste for it, you'll have a pot of chicken soup cookin' for the next 35 years.
Disregard that "advice".

You have a huge issue.
I'll give you some wonderful advice but I must first use you as an example as what NOT to do; DON'T try to save an extra $10 or $15 by cheaping out and getting the 'non-eaters' or WC/CB babies.
They will likely die.
Go ahead and spend an extra $30 and buy two babies that are:
1. Well established eaters.
2. From a reputable breeder, there are TONS of them out there now.

My advice: Take notes; put them into a smaller enclosure. I don't care how small you think the one you have them in now is, get a smaller one and do it quickly. Babies that do not eat have an expiration date of roughly six weeks.
If they have not eaten, I would recommned putting them in an enclosure that has no more than 1.5 sq. ft. of floor space. Cover 1/3 to 1/4 of that space with heat, and put in a hide that is half the size of the enclosure.
95 on the warm side (yes, 95, trust me) and 80-83 on the cool side. Give them a large water dish, one big enough to soak in, they're dehydrated for sure.
Offer them a very small (5-7g) live rat fuzzy. The mouse can do no harm at that size, don't worry about it.
Get back to us when it all works out for you.
Good luck.

[stephanbakir]

Careful with stress, dont try and feed the snake daily, wait at least 3-4 days in between preferably 7.

[unknownclown]

Well I sent lovemypets 2 pics of the worst one the female she definitely looks dehydrated with the remains of a bad shed. I was hoping that would clear up on its own with humidity and water dish. I'm worried about fussing with that too much cause I don't want to stress it too much.

[ilovemypets1988]

here we are all, the pics that clown sent me:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Daniel_Barton/IMAG0121.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Daniel_Barton/IMAG0120.jpg

[unknownclown]

:( she looks terrible please don't anyone hate Me for her condition I'm trying everything I can think of

[ilovemypets1988]

i will try to clear up the pics in a moment:

[ilovemypets1988]

here we are, this is a much more clear pic of her: http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Daniel_Barton/IMAG0121-1.jpg

[Lankyrob]

What type of enclosure do they have? Are they housed together? What are teh temps and humidity? What substrate do you have? How often are you offering them food?

Apart form what looks like stuck shed they dont look overly skinny or anyhting form the pics?

[ilovemypets1988]

ok, heres the second pic:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Daniel_Barton/IMAG0120-1.jpg

[ilovemypets1988]

ok the second 1 is not working in edit lol

[TeaNinja]

Chicken broth; what a load of crayp!
There are no chickens in Africa, it's an old wives tale.
AND if they get a taste for it, you'll have a pot of chicken soup cookin' for the next 35 years.
Disregard that "advice".

You have a huge issue.
I'll give you some wonderful advice but I must first use you as an example as what NOT to do; DON'T try to save an extra $10 or $15 by cheaping out and getting the 'non-eaters' or WC/CB babies.
They will likely die.
Go ahead and spend an extra $30 and buy two babies that are:
1. Well established eaters.
2. From a reputable breeder, there are TONS of them out there now.

My advice: Take notes; put them into a smaller enclosure. I don't care how small you think the one you have them in now is, get a smaller one and do it quickly. Babies that do not eat have an expiration date of roughly six weeks.
If they have not eaten, I would recommned putting them in an enclosure that has no more than 1.5 sq. ft. of floor space. Cover 1/3 to 1/4 of that space with heat, and put in a hide that is half the size of the enclosure.
95 on the warm side (yes, 95, trust me) and 80-83 on the cool side. Give them a large water dish, one big enough to soak in, they're dehydrated for sure.
Offer them a very small (5-7g) live rat fuzzy. The mouse can do no harm at that size, don't worry about it.
Get back to us when it all works out for you.
Good luck.

you should do everything mykee said IMMEDIATELY, he knows what he's talking about.

[ilovemypets1988]

they definitely show dehydration, looks like that anyway, i would up the humidity alitlle, that should help with that and the shed

[NennaMeerkat]

Mykee is the master! Totally do what he said...ASAP!

[Jenn_06]

they need to be put in a small tub with wet paper towels for a few hours to get that shed off and help with dehydration. and try live fuzzy rat they cant bite.

[Gungirl]

Mykee is the master! Totally do what he said...ASAP!

I second this...

[Lankyrob]

What type of enclosure do they have? Are they housed together? What are teh temps and humidity? What substrate do you have? How often are you offering them food?

Apart form what looks like stuck shed they dont look overly skinny or anyhting form the pics?

Are you gonna answer this so we can help?

[unknownclown]

Sorry Im at work so Im limited on time getting on here. They are together in a 10 gallon tank with the shredded coconut stuff on the bottom with repti bark over that. They have a water dish and Ive been misting them 2ce a week. temps are upper 80s. I waited 2 weeks before offering them food but now have been trying once a week when I feed all of my other snakes.
It sounds like Ive been trying alot more than I have since I will offer one thing but if after an hour they dont take it I will switch to something else in hopes that will b e more successful...
If you all dont think she looks all that bad aside from a bad shed (whick she has been sporting since we got her) than I wont stress as much.
When I get home I will separate them into 2 5 gallons.
I dont think they are big enough to eat a fuzzy rat but I will try again when I get home if the pinky isnt gone... please let the pinky be gone...

[Jenn_06]

what do you have for a top for the tanks? if its screen you are just letting all the humidity out of the tank, you need to get them in tubs not fish tanks, it will help them with there shed better.

and let them be in there own tubes for 1 or 2 weeks just change there water and stray them down but dont hold them that will let them get use to there new home and they might start eatting.

[marionsclan]

here we are all, the pics that clown sent me:

hahaha THAT clown... I know what you meant it's just the way it reads. ;)

[shaunyboy]

i pm'd you a link on an alternative way to rehydrate your snake

you should see a big difference within 24 hours

the loose skin on its sides is tenting due to dehydration

cheers shaun

[mykee]

"I dont think they are big enough to eat a fuzzy rat but I will try again when I get home if the pinky isnt gone"
My mistake, I caught my error after it was too late to edit it. I meant fuzzy mouse, not fuzzy rat.

[Lankyrob]

Sorry Im at work so Im limited on time getting on here. They are together in a 10 gallon tank with the shredded coconut stuff on the bottom with repti bark over that. They have a water dish and Ive been misting them 2ce a week. temps are upper 80s. I waited 2 weeks before offering them food but now have been trying once a week when I feed all of my other snakes.
It sounds like Ive been trying alot more than I have since I will offer one thing but if after an hour they dont take it I will switch to something else in hopes that will b e more successful...
If you all dont think she looks all that bad aside from a bad shed (whick she has been sporting since we got her) than I wont stress as much.
When I get home I will separate them into 2 5 gallons.
I dont think they are big enough to eat a fuzzy rat but I will try again when I get home if the pinky isnt gone... please let the pinky be gone...

They should be in SEPARATE enclosures they are probably pretty stressed trying to compete for prime spots. The temps should be 91f at the hot end, not "high 80s". You havent mentioned humidity even tho this seems to be the worst problem you have. Whilst the shed is stuck it should be around 70% - once sorted it should be kept 55-60% until they go into shed again.

In terms of feeding them you should try ONE prey item every SEVEN DAYS not multiple items more regularly - they will get more stressed by being messed about with and associate the food with stress. Once they are separated into their own enclosures put a plastic plate in there and put the prey item on the plate - they will then not need to be handled before each feeding attempt - leave the prey overnight (put it in at about 10pm - only do this with DEAD prey).

DO NOT HANDLE them at all or disturb them apart from changing water and putting the prey item in/out until they have eaten at least on two consecutive feeding attempts.

[unknownclown]

Ok they are now in separate enclosures although at the moment I have her soaking in a tupperware container to rehydrate her.
I trashed an old temporary enclosure yesterday that I had made for one of my male boas and took the plexiglass out. I cut it so it can be used as lids and even though I know they are way too small to get to the top I have made use of 2 dead laptops to hold down the plexiglass. Nope doesnt look tacky or ghetto at all :p It will do untill I get paid and can buy something more appropriate. Heat lamps are off to the side I switched to the red ones... anything else anyone can think of? anyone ever try weight gainer and an eye dropper before?? jokin of course

[mykee]

Heat lamp?
Sheesh.....

[whoaxmary]

If you now have them in smaller enclosures you should be easily able to switch from lamps to a UTH. Lamps = dryness. If you insist on using them you will need to mist more than twice a week I'd think. I use CHE's but only at certain times because me room is in the basement and gets a bit chill sometimes as I'm in canada.
Experts/Mykee correct me if I'm wrong on that -Just my quick opinion on it-

Right now though, after following Mykee's advice I'd say your biggest issue is attempted to get them to eat to often. you may be stressing them out by switching things around so much and constantly bugging them with food offerings.

[Xochiquetzal]

In my experience most BP's wont eat until theyve completed a shed ! I would make sure all skin is off then leave that baby for a day or even 2 before attempting to feed it again . From what i can see the snake is not at a dangerous weight yet. Everyone has given great advice and I would follow it to a T !

[stephanbakir]

A snake eating in shed isn't rare, its up to the individual, some always eat during shed, some never do.

[sch1sm]

Make chicken broth. reduce it down by simmering it. Put it in an icecube tray and freeze it . Take it out 1 cube at a time.

It should last months if its frozen

(Sorry folks saw foody type advice and posted without thinking. there has to be better things to scent BP food with than cooled chicken duh)

[unknownclown]

Is a heat lamp a bad thing when I have the tops covered with plexi glass to hold in the moisture?
Sorry for seeming like a dumb @$$ its been 4 or 5 years since I have kept BPs (or any other snake for that matter) and although I thought I knew what I was doing aparently I had forgotten a few tricks to the trade. Didnt even think if dehydration since they had a water dish and kept the substrate damp but they do look so much better now and I am definately kicking myself in the butt for not thinking of soaking them I was so focused on feeding since I was told that they hadnt been successfully fed at the pet store.

[stephanbakir]

If its a screen top lamps are bad, if its covered, they are great for the most part.

[unknownclown]

In my experience most BP's wont eat until theyve completed a shed ! I would make sure all skin is off then leave that baby for a day or even 2 before attempting to feed it again . From what i can see the snake is not at a dangerous weight yet. Everyone has given great advice and I would follow it to a T !

She is in a retained shed though with nothing covering her eyes.. they are clear. after I soaked her I did try to get some off but I dont want to fuss with her too much and up the stress levels anymore than they are.

[stephanbakir]

If you provide her with adequate humidity, she should do the rest on her own.

[unknownclown]

Ok Mikey has given me a complex on this heat lamp thing :p ... Now I do have heating pads for some of my other snakes but I cant seem to picture that being enough to keep the heat up in a tank and if heat lamps are bad what else is there? I have about 2-3" of coconut fibers and repti bark that I keep damp at the bottoom of the tank for humidity and I cant see the heating pad actually getting at a decent temp thru that...

[stephanbakir]

They aren't bad if the terrarium is covered.
There are UTH/flextwat, CHE (ceramic heat emitters) and heat rocks (NO)