Never buying rats again!!

[stephanbakir]

found someone selling 8 MASSIVE (not fat) female rats, and another guy selling 1 young male. Looks like soon I'll be having babies!! getting them delivered on Sunday XD
Got tons of snake owners in my area paying 2-3$ a rat, I'll be able to save them money and charge 1$ each regardless of size, and have enough rats for myself!!

[stephanbakir]

Total cost of all of those rats is 20$ lol.

[vendettaseve]

Your missing the food part of the equation here. You gotta feed the quality stuff, what goes into the rat goes into the snake.


Id sell for at least $2 each to help cover that cost.

[stephanbakir]

Got a friend who works in a pet shop, so I'll get a discount, + if I get the job I'm trying for I'll get a discount myself.

[marionsclan]

I was thinking of breeding rats myself because the closest breeder is 30 minutes away. I used to own pet rats so I've got the set up, but what time frames should I look at for mating, carrying, and birthing? Also, what the average litter of a rat?

[stephanbakir]

Just found a guy selling a "rat cage" on kijiji for 20$ so I figured why not.. he lived down the street from me so I walked over to pick it up (he didn't have a description up or pictures...)
I get there and its a freaking BEHEMOTH!! 4 feet high 3 feet long 2 feet wide...

any tips on building shelves in wire enclosures, its really well made.

[NennaMeerkat]

If the females are fat because of poor diet I would suggest getting them trimmed down if you want healthy litters from them.

[stephanbakir]

I said massive (not fat) :)

[NennaMeerkat]

Sorry I misread LOL Rather preoccupied while cruising through the forum...

[stephanbakir]

I need to find a job so I can stop this post marathon I started in March lol.

[TeaNinja]

my breeder girl is pretty trim. when she's nursing she gets kind of skinny because she's giving up all her milk but now that the pups are getting to be small size and bigger she's growing her nipple hair back and gettin fatter again.

her first litter was 12 and her 2nd was 16, she's a good breeder.

[stephanbakir]

Mmmm the ever elusive nipple hairs, How do I build shelves they wont eat through?

[NennaMeerkat]

Mmmm the ever elusive nipple hairs, How do I build shelves they wont eat through?

If the wood is thick enough they won't eat through it. I made a little hutch type hide with a platform on top with wood that is about an inch thick. My girls have chewed on it a good bit but has yet to chew through it. And it has been at least a year since I built it for them.

[stephanbakir]

Alright, is glue a bad thing for them or can I use particle board? Got lots of that laying around.

[marionsclan]

Mmmm the ever elusive nipple hairs, How do I build shelves they wont eat through?

You could buy wooden boards in the thickness of the space of the metal cage bars, then cut it to size, cut a groove in each end so that the board will rest on the bar and voila, shelves.

[TeaNinja]

you're doin a rack? i like housing mine in cages. they actually get to run around and do stuff.
tons of people have racks though.

[NennaMeerkat]

Alright, is glue a bad thing for them or can I use particle board? Got lots of that laying around.

They will eat through particle board with ease. Its got to be solid pieces of wood. Even if said wood is scrap wood...solid is the trick. As for glue, I used very very small nails and drove them deep into the wood in areas where the rats were unlikely to chew. A nail gun that uses uber small nails work great. There are probably some types of glue that are okay to use, especially if you don't take the glue all the way to the edges.

[NennaMeerkat]

you're doin a rack? i like housing mine in cages. they actually get to run around and do stuff.
tons of people have racks though.

Happy rats bring more babies than "rack rats". That has always been my opinion. Buy a couple of large cages for the girls and a smaller cage for the breeding male.

[stephanbakir]

Its a cage, not a rack, I'll take pics once my friend gives me my cameras memory chip back.
The cage is massive, I could get in there and read a book with relative comfort... I'm 6.3"
problem is it has no shelves. I kind of want to add shelves with a hole in the middle and run a rope, forcing them to climb the rope if they want to access the other levels (one of those massive ropes used for boats, the thickness of someones arm.

[TeaNinja]

Happy rats bring more babies than "rack rats". That has always been my opinion. Buy a couple of large cages for the girls and a smaller cage for the breeding male.

haha, that's funny. i thought the opposite. i put the breeding male and the albino in the big cage so they can run around and not get fat lol.

Its a cage, not a rack, I'll take pics once my friend gives me my cameras memory chip back.
The cage is massive, I could get in there and read a book with relative comfort... I'm 6.3"
problem is it has no shelves. I kind of want to add shelves with a hole in the middle and run a rope, forcing them to climb the rope if they want to access the other levels (one of those massive ropes used for boats, the thickness of someones arm.

what's it made out of? also when you're actually breeding the female it's good to put her in a small cage alone about a week before she delivers. usually so she doesnt have babies up on top of a high perch and then they fall off or something. also babies eat and pee and poo a lot so it's easier to change bedding in a small cage.

[Will0W783]

That's an awesome break! That'll sure save you guys money. I can't breed rodents...they're far too smelly and messy. My fiance tried breeding mice for a few weeks...the females had babies, ate the babies and then ate the head off the male mouse. It was the nastiest, bloodiest mess ever!

[NennaMeerkat]

Well smaller being a relative term to the large cage the females and babies would be in ;)

As for the cage and shelves once I see pictures of the cage I can help you out better with shelves, rope climbs, ramps and the like.

[stephanbakir]

Stainless steel bottom, 2 feet wide 3 feet long (almost like a short box without a lid) and stainless steel cage like material for the walls and ceiling, 4 feet high. 2 solid doors made of the same material as the walls and ceiling big enough for me to squeeze though had I had a reason to want to be in there that also closes tightly.
Also came with a water dish that 2-3 full grown ball pythons could submerge themselves inside... still not sure what the hell I'm going to do with it, probably a new water bowl for my dogs AND cat... It really is massive.
Total weight is about 20 pounds...

[NennaMeerkat]

That's an awesome break! That'll sure save you guys money. I can't breed rodents...they're far too smelly and messy. My fiance tried breeding mice for a few weeks...the females had babies, ate the babies and then ate the head off the male mouse. It was the nastiest, bloodiest mess ever!

Having bred mice for several years I can tell you that it is usually due to high stress that a mother will go on a baby eating spree. And if you keep the male in the same cage as the female it will almost ALWAYS happen...though the fact she ate the male's head as well just screams at how much stress she was really under. As for smelling bad I don't really notice a smell but then I use something besides shredded paper or wood based bedding. Its a type of bedding that is uber absorbent without falling apart and turning to powder. It is also lightly scented.

[TeaNinja]

i assume the bars are really small? rats can fit through shockingly small spaces.

[NennaMeerkat]

Yup basically if their head/nose can fit through it so will their bodies. Its shocking and funny to watch them cram their big bodies into small areas their head fits into...

[TeaNinja]

when im testing if the little boys are ready to leave the small cage and go into the big cage with the male rats i put them up to the outside of the bars and see if they squeeze through into the big cage. if they can't get in, i open the door and put them in lol. the other day i held a little guy up to the big cage and he squeezed right in so i popped him back into the small cage.

[stephanbakir]

I might need to line it, I'll measure the gaps tomorrow but I can fit my smaller fingers though it to the second joint but not any other finger.

[stephanbakir]

when im testing if the little boys are ready to leave the small cage and go into the big cage with the male rats i put them up to the outside of the bars and see if they squeeze through into the big cage. if they can't get in, i open the door and put them in lol. the other day i held a little guy up to the big cage and he squeezed right in so i popped him back into the small cage.
Vid pls, srsly thats awesome!

[TeaNinja]

i would, but the crappy connection issue my camera has with the memory stick finally cut out and i can't use it at all lol. i was gonna take the screws out and see if i could have a look but i don't have a screwdriver mini enough =/

my dad told me i might as well buy a new camera rather then paying more then it's worth to have someone fix it.

[stephanbakir]

I was told that in rats its not overly important to separate the babies from the father because they dont cannibalize, that being said, I'm worried he will attempt to re-breed the female too soon so plan on separating them. The breeder told me that would be unwise because they stress when alone, any truth?

[TeaNinja]

yea all of that is true. female rats go through what is called postpartum estrus which means they go into heat the same night that they give birth, so if you don't seperate mommy and daddy you will IMMEDIATELY have a knocked up rat, which isn't good because you want to give her a few months to nurse the litter she just had as well as recooperate and build some more nutrients before having another litter and making more milk.

and it's good to at least keep rats in pairs because they are very social and like friends to rough house ;)

my friend has had a male rat for like a year or something that he bought for his RTB as a feeder then his snake died for some unknown reason. he's had it alone the whole time and its fat as hell. i aquait it to him being in a small cage with too little excersize and eating too much food and not having any other rats to play with.

[stephanbakir]

So, should I keep the male alone with the weaned rats that are growing (males) and females in the giant thing? I've got an extra 80 gallon tank I'm not using so that should house the males till I can find a cage type environment for them aswel. Or I can try to build a divider in the giant thing?

[TeaNinja]

i just house my mom rat, the black female from the first litter and babies together in the smaller breeding cage and i house the 2 males in the big cage. once the guy rats are big enough to not escape the big cage then they can live in there until they become f/t or i sell them to pet stores. then i repeat the process.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/nigma003.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/rats6-4008.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/superpregnant022.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/superpregnant026.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/newratcage008.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/newratcage007.jpg

here's fatty mom the day before she popped.
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/superpregnant001.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/superpregnant002.jpg


if you have questions when you start breeding, just pm me or nenna or wayne. i got all my info from nenna and wayne when i first started breeding the rats.

[stephanbakir]

My cage looks just like a larger version of yours with bigger doors and a metal base.
It also has no shelves.

[TeaNinja]

if the bars are around the same space apart, you definetly need to have something different for when she gives birth. the moment those pups hit 2 weeks+ and open their eyes and start running around like crazy, they can Easily just walk through there.

rats are interesting because they can jump like 2+ feet straight in the air, they can squeeze through super small holes and they are surprisingly smart. whenever i come in my room and start eating stuff the rats start going crazy until i feed them some. i'll hold scraps outside the cage and they reach out with their little hands and grab stuff, it's halarious.

not to mention sometime's they brawl over food lol. it's funny to watch rats tug of war'ing a wheat thin. then i just give the loser his own lol.

[stephanbakir]

I hope to god the cat can't find a way in, the doors have locks and springs that hold em shut.

[TeaNinja]

my dog will lay in front of the rat cages for hours. she's sooooo interested in the rats. theres something about the squeaking and jumping around of rat babies that intrigues her lol. i came home one day and she had nudged the rat cage like 4 feet across the floor with her nose. she doesn't want to chomp them, i think she just wants to play. not to mention the rats are smart and know she can't get to her, so they climb up the walls of the cage and tease her lol.

sometimes i take the rats out and put them on the dogs back for a few seconds to walk around on her lol. the dog walks around and looks behind her like "O.O wtf is on me???" lol

[stephanbakir]

Sounds like I'm going to enjoy this lol.
I used to breed gerbils, and degus but I was too young to remember much of it.

[NennaMeerkat]

Stephan there is something so much fun about breeding rats and mice. That is why Tea (and myself back when I bred) have so much trouble killing the babies! You honestly fall in love with their personalities. Its even harder when you have a rat that just wants to be with you and loves attention.

[marionsclan]

I used to own pet rats and my last one was a Dumbo girl. Such soft fur and so sweet. She would always give me kisses when I took her out. But now I am considering breeding my own food because it is so hard to get a hold of decent live rats around here.

TeaNinja mentioned selling them to pet stores. Is that easy to do or do big chains have their own suppliers?

[NennaMeerkat]

Big chains ALWAYS have their own suppliers and usually will not even consider batting an eye at local people wanting to sell them their rats and such.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

I would try to breed Rats/Rabbits as feeders but i cant keep them inside they smell to bad if you dont constantly clean, and i dont like constantly cleaning lol thats why i love snakes.

[TeaNinja]

i lucked out in that i have a local pet store willing to buy my pups for the same price they buy from their wholesaler.

as for the smell inside, i have my rats in my room. i change my rats bedding every 2 or 3 weeks. closer to every week or 2 for the small cage with all the babies and the mom and girl just because they are eating and drinking more and there are just more of them in general pissin' it up.

stephen another thing to think about, 2 rats don't eat ALL that much, but a pregnant rat that then turns 2 into 14 or 18 eats a lot. not to mention once they hit 2 weeks and open their eyes they will start munching on the solid food also. you start to go through a lot of rat food. for months i was buying bags of rat foor for likt 6-8$ a bag and it would only last a week or so and i always kept hearing nenna saying you can just feed them dog food so i just started giving them all my dogs food the last month lol. i still give them all random goodies of veggies and fruits and crackers and stuff every now and then.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

i lucked out in that i have a local pet store willing to buy my pups for the same price they buy from their wholesaler.

as for the smell inside, i have my rats in my room. i change my rats bedding every 2 or 3 weeks. closer to every week or 2 for the small cage with all the babies and the mom and girl just because they are eating and drinking more and there are just more of them in general pissin' it up.




I must have been doing it wrong, cause those guys smelled like ****. hahah but i used newspaper, not real bedding must have been my mistake.

[TeaNinja]

i use the gigantic bags of carefresh, it seems to take the scent pretty well until it gets all wet and nasty. then it starts to smell like pissy wood. it's easy to tell when it needs changing :o plus i think it has little bits of clothy things throughout, i bet those help to soak up moisture and scent.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Yea im kinda with you, from you recent posts ive noticed you dont want to kill the rats you raise. I buy directly from a dealer in my area live Rats and rabbits and i have to CO2 method of putting them down. I dont think id want to be putting animals down that i share a room with, im in a one bedroom apartment, snakes are in the living room so the rats/rabbits would have to be in the bedroom with me... So i feel you on that, im just going to stick to buying ones i dont have the opportunity to get to know as individual animals.

[stephanbakir]

I won't have any issues putting them down, but I will enjoy raising them up!

[Gungirl]

After reading this thread you guys are making me want to breed my own rats... I think my son (5yr old) would love to do this as "his" project. I talked to him about maybe setting up a few tanks in his room and he said that it was a great Idea and if he gets bit by any those will get fed to the our snake spot first..lol

[Jenn_06]

have fun breeding the rats i been doing it since Oct and its fun seeing all the different looking rats you get.

the smell is not the great thing about them but its not at bad as mice. i have to clean the rats tubs about every 5 to 6 days. but other then that its fun taking care of them. i hope about oct ill get me a pair to bunnies to breed so i don't have to buy them for the brum and retics anymore.

[stephanbakir]

I'm going to have to breed bunnies in December probably, a lil iffy on how its done but time will tell :)

[Lankyrob]

Dont rabbits breed like errr...... rabbits? :crazy: :crazy2:

[stephanbakir]

I don't have the ability to do it indoors, and it gets to like -30 Celsius sometimes... without the wind so I need to design something more... specific.

[My/first/Snake]

After reading this thread you guys are making me want to breed my own rats... I think my son (5yr old) would love to do this as "his" project. I talked to him about maybe setting up a few tanks in his room and he said that it was a great Idea and if he gets bit by any those will get fed to the our snake spot first..lol

Why couldn't you have been my mom, I never had any of my own real pets growing up, LOL! :yes:

[stephanbakir]

They should be born sometime this week!

[NennaMeerkat]

I hope you post pictures of your babies! I love seeing the patterns. Also I wanna see the setup you have for them. And as always any questions about them feel free to ask me or Tea. I have helped Tea out in the past with their babies and so I feel I can help you as well :)

Hope your first litter is a healthy one!!

[stephanbakir]

I'll post pics of everything including Kirana who FINALLY shed after over a month in blue once Kat brings over the memory card or i buy one.!

[NennaMeerkat]

No excuses for not posting pics! LOL Get yourself a memory card *shakes fist*

[vendettaseve]

I don't have the ability to do it indoors, and it gets to like -30 Celsius sometimes... without the wind so I need to design something more... specific.

Get yourself..... an igloo.

[stephanbakir]

Get yourself..... an igloo.
Every canadian owns an igloo... You should know that!

[NennaMeerkat]

Of course and the rich families have one for each member of the family!!

[stephanbakir]

Mine melted last year because I had the wood stove up too high, so I spent the summer in wallmart trying to warm up.

[NennaMeerkat]

Why didn't you just head out to the back yard and kill a few caribou for their fur ;)

[TeaNinja]

*imagines ben stiller wearing the panda in tropic thunder*

i just put my mom rat in the guys cage for a night a few weeks ago, she's most likely pregnant again. here comes litter #3 lol.

[NennaMeerkat]

Yay for littler number 3! You best be sending me pics when they start showing their patterns Tea! I would never forgive you if you didn't :P

[vendettaseve]

Every canadian owns an igloo... You should know that!


Yes, but youd need to get a second one for the rabbits. If your anything like me your pet igloo is full of Sled Dogs :3

[stephanbakir]

Alright, so... the males have been with the females since this post. They were "large" rats when we got them, and still no babies... Gona F/T the lot of them and complain to the breeder who sold them to me. None of the females are pregnant and they eat like pigs.

[TeaNinja]

Alright, so... the males have been with the females since this post. They were "large" rats when we got them, and still no babies... Gona F/T the lot of them and complain to the breeder who sold them to me. None of the females are pregnant and they eat like pigs.

lolol. the females DO need to go into heat before they actually knock each other up. you could have had them together the whole time without the female ever going into heat. if the male pesters her enough she can go into heat sooner.

it's crazy you had ANY issues at all. my rats were knocking each other up like a week or less after i got the female. now i've got GENERATIONS of rats! lol

i started with just the big black male rat in the beginning as a live feeder for nigma. nigma took a 4 month food strike and i had to house the rat the whole time so i got the female and put them together and they had the first litter. i kept 1 albino male and 1 black female from the first litter and now the male almost as big as the jumbo black male. then the albino just knocked up the black female and the black rat knocked up the mama rat again. i should be having another 2 litters SOMEwhat soon.

also i kept 2 hooded females that are in the other cage from the 2nd litter. they have cool patterns and they outgrew being meals for my small snakes. i suppose i'll try to either sell them as breeders or pets sometime.

also, if i don't SEE the male physically knocking her up, i can't really tell she's pregnant until a week or two away from birth, because they get super fat.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/superpregnant032.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/superpregnant030.jpg

[SnakeyJay]

Well thats s FAT rat!! Lol

[TeaNinja]

yea, that was a day or two before she popped out the last litter of 16 so she was mega fat with babies lol.

[ladyjustice33]

Stephan there is something so much fun about breeding rats and mice. That is why Tea (and myself back when I bred) have so much trouble killing the babies! You honestly fall in love with their personalities. Its even harder when you have a rat that just wants to be with you and loves attention.

This is why I will have to stick to the f/t rodents for my snakes. I would get attached and no way I could kill them or feed them live, lol !!!!