Animal Planet/Rattlesnake republic - on rattlensnake roundups

[Dehlida]

Lately I've been watching more and more TV, of course I generally turn to some sort of semi educational stuff inbetween quality television such as south park or op repo.. However, I ended up watching "rattlesnake republic" last night. Now as we all know- animal planet is pretty much garbage lately in terms of both the image they put out of reptiles and their keepers and the awful lack of knowledge displayed. Anyone else find this rather stupid? Animal planet couldn't even get the basic "poisonus/venomous" thing right, and this isn't the first time either, nat geo fails at it just as often.

Now the other part- what I actually made this topic to get opinions on. The rattlesnake republic is a show following a small group of rattlesnake hunters in central texas- who every year make a living off the rattlesnake harvest. Now today I manage to find myself watching facebook with people crying about this and so upset- however I wonder the following:

1. A small portion of land is allowed for rattlesnake hunting- a portion of land with a huge abundnace of rattlesnakes- and we are clearly not causing huge dents in the population if every year if the area can sustain the roundups. How is this so awful?

2. Most of the hunters are avid reptile enthusiasts, keeping a variety of reptiles themselves as pets. They are for the most part very careful and safe, follow all guidelines and love what they are doing, what is the problem with this?

3. In the US- we allow huge areas for hunting and fishing- some of these animals are not even used fully when hunted, and are just disposed of. We kill off less rattlesnakes than perhaps any other commonly hunted game species in the states, and the entire snake is used to its fullest extent at the show. What's the issue?

4. "round-ups are cruel"- How so? They cut off the head, instant death, one could argue the way we dispatch our rodents as food is far worse than an instant beheading? They are killed instantly and painlessly and used, who cares if it's public? How is this so cruel?

This whole topic makes me so annoyed with ignorance and stupidity. I find it completely hipocritic that one can sit and bop 100 rats in a day, then cry over the fact a few rattlesnakes are killed in Texas. What gives anyone the right to put a highre value on the life of the snake over the rat, or the snake over the big male elk killed by a sportsman in the mountains.

Opinions welcome ;D

[SnakeyJay]

I personally dont like the idea of mass round up and slaughter of ANY WILD ANIMAL.... However I do recognise the fact its part of the local culture. Its like I wouldnt want to watch as matador in spain, but it happens as part of their historical culture and I have to accept that.. I will say though thatt ive watched a show on the rattler round up and it looks like the snakes are treated badly during the process, and why cant people just wear imitation snake skin if you like the look.. Just my oppinion.

[infernalis]

. "round-ups are cruel"- How so? They cut off the head, instant death, one could argue the way we dispatch our rodents as food is far worse than an instant beheading? They are killed instantly and painlessly and used, who cares if it's public? How is this so cruel?

Opinions welcome ;D

Due to the very low oxygen requirements of the reptile brain, the rattlesnakes head is fully aware and still quite alive for MANY minutes after decapitation.

Imagine your own decapitation if your were to remain conscious for another half hour before the lights went out.

However since snakes lack logic and reasoning, one can only imagine what that head must be thinking.

[Will0W783]

I have to say I don't agree with the idea of massive round-ups. I realize that they are huge tourist boons, but in my opinion all they do is portray a negative image of snakes, and the pointless slaughter of hundreds of snakes for the amusement of spectators aggravates me. Yes, anyone who keeps snakes kills rats/mice or buys ones that were killed for that purpose- but they lost their lives for a purpose. It's the same as with beef cattle...they are slaughtered, but they are not wasted. The meat is used for human food, and the bones and joints are often used to make gelatin or glue...the hides are turned into leather for clothes, cars, etc.
In the rattlesnake roundups, they just kill so many snakes for no reason. They don't eat them all; they don't make clothing out of them. They just kill them and wave them around and make a big spectacle of it. I personally think it's inhumane and unnecessary.
But I can see that this will be another area where you and I have a difference of opinion, huh Dehilda?

[forza_inter]

i dont give a **** if its a "tradition" or a huge tourist attraction. rounding up large amounts of rattlesnakes or any other animal for that matter and butchering them is disgusting, despicable and inhumane. if any human being can look at what goes on at these round ups and think that there is nothing wrong with it....get your head checked.

id like to see what would happen if a group of people walked into one of the cities participating in these "round ups" and started collecting all the children in the city and decapitating them.

....and dont give me no bullshit argument about "humans and snakes being totally different" or "humans having the ability to comprehend whats going on, snakes dont"....they have just as much right to live then any human or other form of life so **** you

[Lankyrob]

i dont give a **** if its a "tradition" or a huge tourist attraction. rounding up large amounts of rattlesnakes or any other animal for that matter and butchering them is disgusting, despicable and inhumane. if any human being can look at what goes on at these round ups and think that there is nothing wrong with it....get your head checked.

id like to see what would happen if a group of people walked into one of the cities participating in these "round ups" and started collecting all the children in the city and decapitating them.

....and dont give me no bullshit argument about "humans and snakes being totally different" or "humans having the ability to comprehend whats going on, snakes dont"....they have just as much right to live then any human or other form of life so **** you

Apart from the unneccessary swear words i totally agree :) :yes:

[Dehlida]

I guess the above posters are 100% vegan? Do you care to think about what happened to all of your food? Before you go off on me- unless you are living a completely vegan lifestyle you have absolutely no room to talk. I firmly believe that 99% of the animals in our food industry are treated WORSE than rattlesnakes at a once a year roundup in texas.

Somehow, the snake is worse and eating meat isn't wrong at all. Hypocritical in an extreme fashion. Circle of life, I love my hamburgers just as much as the next person, do tell me how you would like the snakes killed for consumption since this method is so wrong? We could always use the same methods used by commercial meat packers, I'd love to see your reactions when REAL cruelty takes place.

[Lankyrob]

Having worked both on UK farms and in slaughterhouses i am 100% happy that the meat i eat is raised and treated as humanely as possible. I also would have no problem killing my own food (and have done so in the past) but wholesale slaughter - no thanks

[Dehlida]

It's much different here in the US, having been in a commercial packing plant, and having grown up on a farm there is a huge difference. However, look at your typical farmer, does he humanely kill a chicken? If you think beheading is humane. Does he humanely kill the cow? Yep, with a shotgun.

It's a different way of thinking, the world isn't all butterflys and daisys. Sometimes things die so that other things can live.

[Lankyrob]

Just wondering what will live because all those rattlesnakes are slaughtered?

[Dehlida]

Just wondering what will live because all those rattlesnakes are slaughtered?
Culturally people eat rattlesnake- I've had it and I must say it's pretty good meat. Also, less bites on humans because lower population. It isn't all bad.

[infernalis]

I guess the above posters are 100% vegan? Do you care to think about what happened to all of your food? Before you go off on me- unless you are living a completely vegan lifestyle you have absolutely no room to talk. I firmly believe that 99% of the animals in our food industry are treated WORSE than rattlesnakes at a once a year roundup in texas.

Somehow, the snake is worse and eating meat isn't wrong at all. Hypocritical in an extreme fashion. Circle of life, I love my hamburgers just as much as the next person, do tell me how you would like the snakes killed for consumption since this method is so wrong? We could always use the same methods used by commercial meat packers, I'd love to see your reactions when REAL cruelty takes place.

don't get me wrong, I like meat and I kill things no problem. That's why I stuck with scientific facts rather than opinions.

[whoaxmary]

Kay, as some one who IS a vegan, and has been a vegatarian my whole life, I want to state my opinion now to.
Most of your points seem very valid at first read. But then I can not ever agree with the idea of a mass slaughter.
Due to the very low oxygen requirements of the reptile brain, the rattlesnakes head is fully aware and still quite alive for MANY minutes after decapitation.

Imagine your own decapitation if your were to remain conscious for another half hour before the lights went out.

However since snakes lack logic and reasoning, one can only imagine what that head must be thinking.

I'm very glad you brought this up Wayne, as is a point I think is VERY valid.
People argue animals can not feel fear, and something like this 'round up' is not cruel.

Have you never had your dog hide from a storm? Or your cat jump up and run acorss the room when you have a herp out? CLEARLY animals can feel fear, and if I felt like digging I know I can find facts to support this.
Now, as Wayne said snakes, and animals in general lack logic and reasoning. I think this makes fear even more intense in animals than people can feel the emotion.
I'd keep going...but I need to get back to work .x.x

[Will0W783]

WHy did you even start this thread, Dehilda? You HAD to have known this would ruffle a lot of feathers? I get the distinct impression that you enjoy riling people up.

[forza_inter]

Apart from the unneccessary swear words i totally agree :) :yes:


hahaha sorry man things like this really hit home.....rattles my life

[forza_inter]

I guess the above posters are 100% vegan? Do you care to think about what happened to all of your food? Before you go off on me- unless you are living a completely vegan lifestyle you have absolutely no room to talk. I firmly believe that 99% of the animals in our food industry are treated WORSE than rattlesnakes at a once a year roundup in texas.

Somehow, the snake is worse and eating meat isn't wrong at all. Hypocritical in an extreme fashion. Circle of life, I love my hamburgers just as much as the next person, do tell me how you would like the snakes killed for consumption since this method is so wrong? We could always use the same methods used by commercial meat packers, I'd love to see your reactions when REAL cruelty takes place.


vegan? its a reptile for christ sakes....you want meat eat beef, eat pork....thats why those animals are FARM ANIMALS, they are born and raised on farms for that purpose. reptiles are an EXOTIC animal....people eat that **** for god knows what reason. its disgusting

and in regards to feeding snakes mice and rats....ya they are classified as VERMIN....they are pests. when was an ecosystem ever faltered because of a lack of mice? or a lack of rats? massive numbers of rattlesnake are being removed from areas that require those animals to keep the balance of that ecosystem.

[Dehlida]

vegan? its a reptile for christ sakes....you want meat eat beef, eat pork....thats why those animals are FARM ANIMALS, they are born and raised on farms for that purpose. reptiles are an EXOTIC animal....people eat that **** for god knows what reason. its disgusting

and in regards to feeding snakes mice and rats....ya they are classified as VERMIN....they are pests. when was an ecosystem ever faltered because of a lack of mice? or a lack of rats? massive numbers of rattlesnake are being removed from areas that require those animals to keep the balance of that ecosystem.
Reptiles are eaten extremely commonly across many cultures in the world. People in the south eat reptiles all the time. So clearly the farm animal is worth less than the rattlesnake? The butchering of a farm animal means less than a beheading of a snake for food.

Many people regard snakes as VERMIN, pests. Massive numbers are removed every year without ill effects- clearly the population is high enough to support this practice?

I find it rather disgusting that you would say that the cow raised on the farm is worth less and deserves to die and be butchered poorly but the rattlesnake should be left untouched because your difference of opinion.

[forza_inter]

Culturally people eat rattlesnake- I've had it and I must say it's pretty good meat. Also, less bites on humans because lower population. It isn't all bad.

less bites....less bites....im so sure your using this to defend the round ups.

an ecosystem is being tampered with and your saying its ok because less people are bit....

an effortless amount of research would educate you to realize that most of those bites occur because people cant leave well enough alone. they try to catch or kill snakes when they come across them...and like any living animal whos life is at risk, they defend themselves.....

this is all common sense....i dont mean to sound like a prick, but as someone already said: when you come into a reptile forum and say that the slaughter of large quantities of snakes is acceptable...its going to piss people off

[forza_inter]

Reptiles are eaten extremely commonly across many cultures in the world. People in the south eat reptiles all the time. So clearly the farm animal is worth less than the rattlesnake? The butchering of a farm animal means less than a beheading of a snake for food.

Many people regard snakes as VERMIN, pests. Massive numbers are removed every year without ill effects- clearly the population is high enough to support this practice?

I find it rather disgusting that you would say that the cow raised on the farm is worth less and deserves to die and be butchered poorly but the rattlesnake should be left untouched because your difference of opinion.


yea your right....in many cultures they are eaten....and why? because in those villages where they RELY on snakes to provide for food they dont have farms filled with mass amounts of cows and pigs. im pretty sure they have cows and pigs in texas, do they not?

[forza_inter]

they sell the god dam skin and heads for profit....like i cant believe im even arguing this issue with someone....like really man?????

[Jay]

Snakes are a pest in some areas. I am 50/50 on this topic, note that I don't agree with the mass slaughter. I think most snakes are killed for these 2 reasons.
-food, by hunters
-fear, by un educated people
and I am sure some do it for fun.

[forza_inter]

i dont have a problem with people in a village in brazil catching snakes for food so they can survive...sure i wish they had other means of food so they didnt have to kill snakes but thats what they require to live, so be it

but in america to use the excuse that "they need them for food" is beyond ridiculous

[NennaMeerkat]

You posted information from another place so I will do the same....or I will link to it.

Rattlesnake Roundups - Matt Ellerbeck - The Snake Man (http://www.the-snake-man.com/rattlesnake-roundups.html)

[Jay]

I don't NEED deer, rabbit, duck or geese to survive, but I hunt them for their meat every year. I also hunt coyote every month for other purpose. I am beginning to understand the op he doesn't feel the same about snakes as us, which is fine. Every one has there own interest if I cared about my antiques I wouldn't have a good business keeping them all would I? Mind you I do keep some, as he has some pets.

[NennaMeerkat]

I don't NEED deer, rabbit, duck or geese to survive, but I hunt them for their meat every year. I also hunt coyote every month for other purpose. I am beginning to understand the op he doesn't feel the same about snakes as us, which is fine. Every one has there own interest if I cared about my antiques I wouldn't have a good business keeping them all would I? Mind you I do keep some, as he has some pets.

I feel bad for those animals he deems for profit making only...they won't get the same treatment and respect as the animals he has for pets. At least your antiques get the same treatment no matter if they are there to be sold or for you to enjoy.

[forza_inter]

I don't NEED deer, rabbit, duck or geese to survive, but I hunt them for their meat every year. I also hunt coyote every month for other purpose. I am beginning to understand the op he doesn't feel the same about snakes as us, which is fine. Every one has there own interest if I cared about my antiques I wouldn't have a good business keeping them all would I? Mind you I do keep some, as he has some pets.


fair enough....my question fo you....when you hunt deer, how many do you kill and take home? 1, 2, 3 if your lucky

do you round up an entire herd? do you massacre an entire area of deer? didnt think so

[Jay]

That's where you're wrong. The antiques I keep are cleaned thoroughly with care and displayed. The antiques I sell are stored in boxes, dusted when shipped. Although I still respect them with what they are. When I buy antiques for my personal collection a lot of time and research goes into the said product, when I buy to sell I do little research take risks on values ect..

[NennaMeerkat]

That's where you're wrong. The antiques I keep are cleaned thoroughly with care and displayed. The antiques I sell are stored in boxes, dusted when shipped. Although I still respect them with what they are. When I buy antiques for my personal collection a lot of time and research goes into the said product, when I buy to sell I do little research take risks on values ect..

Okay fair enough, but do you destroy or throw away a product for selling just because of a small flaw that you could have fixed? Even if you couldn't sell it for the same amount as if it was perfect?

[infernalis]

This seems a good place to bring this up, The very first time I saw "Whale Wars" I was disgusted with the Japanese, after I thought more about it, I became disgusted with the sea shepherds.

See, to people in India, the cow is sacred, to the rest of us a cow is sacred as a yummy burger. Some cultures hold pigs on a pedestal while others barbecue them.

so who in the hell are we to judge those who eat "non conventional meats"?? just because we think it's "bad" to eat whale, to the Japanese whale is just another fish. (Yes I know whales are mammals) but my point is, what is OK in one culture, may not be OK in another.

[Jay]

fair enough....my question fo you....when you hunt deer, how many do you kill and take home? 1, 2, 3 if your lucky

do you round up an entire herd? do you massacre an entire area of deer? didnt think so
Maybe I hunt with a tank? For deer just 1 if I'm lucky, none last year. But duck and rabbits take a huge hit. You have to consider where I live 70% of my towns population hunts as well.

[forza_inter]

This seems a good place to bring this up, The very first time I saw "Whale Wars" I was disgusted with the Japanese, after I thought more about it, I became disgusted with the sea shepherds.

See, to people in India, the cow is sacred, to the rest of us a cow is sacred as a yummy burger. Some cultures hold pigs on a pedestal while others barbecue them.

so who in the hell are we to judge those who eat "non conventional meats"?? just because we think it's "bad" to eat whale, to the Japanese whale is just another fish. (Yes I know whales are mammals) but my point is, what is OK in one culture, may not be OK in another.


again....i have no problem with those cultural beliefs....but how many people in texas do you see worshiping cows or pigs?

[infernalis]

again....i have no problem with those cultural beliefs....but how many people in texas do you see worshiping cows or pigs?

I don't, point is the people who attend these roundups certainly feel a whole lot different about the snakes than we do.

all I can do is provide the best care I can to my captive animals, and educate others to the best of my ability, but I doubt I could stop the roundup if I tried.

I also quite firmly believe that posting this thread on a reptile lovers forum is just asking for nasty posts..... It would be no different than posting recipes for roast dog on a cocker spaniel forum.

[Jay]

Okay fair enough, but do you destroy or throw away a product for selling just because of a small flaw that you could have fixed? Even if you couldn't sell it for the same amount as if it was perfect?

shoot I don't want to debate with you, but yes I would give it away or discard it. My mentor taught me Condition is everything! Lets say I received an old glass bottle, while in my care it was damaged. I would simply do the same as the op get rid of it because it has lost all value and I try to make a living out of it. Like I said before if I kept every item I would be homeless.

[NennaMeerkat]

shoot I don't want to debate with you, but yes I would give it away or discard it. My mentor taught me Condition is everything! Lets say I received an old glass bottle, while in my care it was damaged. I would simply do the same as the op get rid of it because it has lost all value and I try to make a living out of it. Like I said before if I kept every item I would be homeless.

Ah okay Jay I understand :) Not trying to debate...just trying to make a point and antiques just aren't the same as animals. At least in this case.

[forza_inter]

I don't, point is the people who attend these roundups certainly feel a whole lot different about the snakes than we do.

all I can do is provide the best care I can to my captive animals, and educate others to the best of my ability, but I doubt I could stop the roundup if I tried.

I also quite firmly believe that posting this thread on a reptile lovers forum is just asking for nasty posts..... It would be no different than posting recipes for roast dog on a cocker spaniel forum.


of course they feel differently....they are ignorant. most of those people hate snakes and think are an evil menace sent by the devil to kill mass amounts of humans.....ignorance in my eyes is no excuse for this disgusting event

LOL and full points for the cocker spaniel comparison :yes:

[Jay]

Ah okay Jay I understand :) Not trying to debate...just trying to make a point and antiques just aren't the same as animals. At least in this case.
No they are not. I'm just trying to look at it from a business sense. I could discard a broken bottle but I will do everything in my power to help a broken snake rather it by a $10 nix treatment or a $100+vet bill.

[NennaMeerkat]

No they are not. I'm just trying to look at it from a business sense. I could discard a broken bottle but I will do everything in my power to help a broken snake rather it by a $10 nix treatment or a $100+vet bill.

I just knew that there were people that would sell a bottle with a nick or blemish in it, scuffed paint, or what not even if they could not get top dollar for it...or even giving it away to someone who could appreciate it even if it is flawed. Thought you might be one of those people, but totally cool if you aren't.

Also I know that you take great care of your animals...all of them ;)

[totheend]

so who in the hell are we to judge those who eat "non conventional meats"?? just because we think it's "bad" to eat whale, to the Japanese whale is just another fish. (Yes I know whales are mammals) but my point is, what is OK in one culture, may not be OK in another.


Thanks....you took the words right outta my mouth! ;)

[Jay]

I just knew that there were people that would sell a bottle with a nick or blemish in it, scuffed paint, or what not even if they could not get top dollar for it...or even giving it away to someone who could appreciate it even if it is flawed. Thought you might be one of those people, but totally cool if you aren't.

Also I know that you take great care of your animals...all of them ;)

I most certainly give my damaged goods to someone who respects them. My mom likes to put old rusty things in her garden, she takes good care of my unsellable items lol. I doubt she even know the value of them.

[stephanbakir]

The roundup looks cruel in my eyes, but I'm looking at it from the outside, and I don't know of any scientific evidence that its tearing a hole in the population so I'll wait before passing judgement.

[Dehlida]

The topic wasn't started with the intent to start a riot or ruffle feathers or to get a rise. There is a huge segment of the reptile hobby that doesn't have a huge problem with the roundups. There is a huge segment that doesn't mind killing off a snake when it gets sick.

Before I post what I'm getting at I want to toss out a quick bit about sea shepards and whale wars since it was brought up. This is an absolutely great example of the same thing I am trying to prove with rattlesnakes. They are a dietary staple of the area- the same way whales and other game fish are in Japan. When people first came to America they may not have had a ton of the same foods we have available today- I bet a lot had to live off what they can catch easily and prepare simply. Enter rattlesnakes- an extremely successful animal in abudance that when removed keeps them, their families, and their livestock all that much safer, good trade off, and this is passed down as tradition in the south. Now look at Japan- an island based culture (island cultures naturally live off the sea), they now have access to other foods. Does that change the fact that sea live is still deeply rooted in Japanese culture? Absolutely not, does this mean they are cruel evil people for making a living the same way they have for hundreds of years? No.

The point I'm getting at- and the original purpose of this question, is to poll a small portion of widespread reptile enthusiasts about their feelings. I did this for multiple reasons. The first was to see what kind of response you would give to a fellow reptile enthusiast- which turns out is very hostile and negative. I was pretty appauled that people jump to such extremes and try to bully me into some sort of view that conforms with them. The second reason- is to see how people felt about the actual hunters themselves- again, very hostile and little respect. I'd be willing to bet that most of the hunters on the show have more respect and love for the reptiles than most in the hobby today and I'd also bet they know a solid bit about snakes too.

Now this brings me to the last part of the reason. I wanted to get the feel for the attitude of the reptile community. The more forums I become a part of, the more hobbyists I meet, the more hands I shake I realize one simple fact. The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby. Until people learn the world doesn't revolve around their opinion and their way of doing things, and extremes we will never better this hobby.

I read a topic not long ago about someone burying a snake with a pinkie inside of a bag, under sand. I read multiple pages of people bashing bost the OP and the source the information was from. Rather than educating the person through logic, or arguing rationally based on scientific facts, people felt the need to act arrogant. I talk to so many new reptile keepers as part of my business. A vast majority of people are terrified to get into reptiles as they don't know where to start. The industry is scary and I see people walk out of herp shops all day long confused to the point of no repair.

Baby steps people. I'd rather help someone grow in their knowledge and understanding of these creatures one step at a time than bashing them for letting their first corn snake die. I'd rather a few snakes die along the way- in the process of educating and helping a new keeper learn and grow, than force them out of the hobby all together.

[stephanbakir]

There are different types of reptile forums, this one happens to be a nice sometimes quiet community where the majority of people think of their reptiles as pets/family and are all for spending money taking their pets to the vet, even if the cost might surpass the commercial value of the animal.
If you post something like what you posted on this type of forum, thats what you should expect. Not saying that its 100% right, but... damn...

[Dehlida]

There are different types of reptile forums, this one happens to be a nice sometimes quiet community where the majority of people think of their reptiles as pets/family and are all for spending money taking their pets to the vet, even if the cost might surpass the commercial value of the animal.
If you post something like what you posted on this type of forum, thats what you should expect. Not saying that its 100% right, but... damn...

The sad part is- the vast majority of the people I encounter feel this way. The vast majority of "reptile enthusiasts" working at the pet stores and whatnot. It isn't a matter of "this forum" I can list off several other forums who will give about the same response.

I had a good friend of mine tell me a story about how she got into snakes. She had one as a kid, when it died due to bad husbandry she got yelled at she all but gave up. Went to college still with a love of animals and ended up getting a great room-mate who had a snake. This prompted her to try again, since she didn't have the same people ready to yell down her back. She purchased a snake from a reptile breeder, and it managed to end up dead due to a flaw in caging. Instead of ranting on her, he sold her another snake, helped her correct flaws and tried again. This one ended up getting loose and eaten by a cat. Tried again- this time things hit home. She has a few snakes now, all of which are fed top of the line food that she knows the source from herself. She buys probably some of the best caging money can buy for them. Spends every extra cent she has on them. If he would have gotten upset with her- she would have never even considered getting another snake and would have dropped it. Now she has a few, all of which accompany her on educational talks and whatnot, and she's one of the most enthusiastic and knowledgeable people I know.

[SnakeyJay]

Everybody makes mistakes in husbandry sometimes, thats trial and error but if your,killing a few in a row by accident, or cage defects, then thats something that can be avoided by doing proper research before the purchase and cage inspections before use. X

[forza_inter]

The topic wasn't started with the intent to start a riot or ruffle feathers or to get a rise. There is a huge segment of the reptile hobby that doesn't have a huge problem with the roundups. There is a huge segment that doesn't mind killing off a snake when it gets sick.

Before I post what I'm getting at I want to toss out a quick bit about sea shepards and whale wars since it was brought up. This is an absolutely great example of the same thing I am trying to prove with rattlesnakes. They are a dietary staple of the area- the same way whales and other game fish are in Japan. When people first came to America they may not have had a ton of the same foods we have available today- I bet a lot had to live off what they can catch easily and prepare simply. Enter rattlesnakes- an extremely successful animal in abudance that when removed keeps them, their families, and their livestock all that much safer, good trade off, and this is passed down as tradition in the south. Now look at Japan- an island based culture (island cultures naturally live off the sea), they now have access to other foods. Does that change the fact that sea live is still deeply rooted in Japanese culture? Absolutely not, does this mean they are cruel evil people for making a living the same way they have for hundreds of years? No.

The point I'm getting at- and the original purpose of this question, is to poll a small portion of widespread reptile enthusiasts about their feelings. I did this for multiple reasons. The first was to see what kind of response you would give to a fellow reptile enthusiast- which turns out is very hostile and negative. I was pretty appauled that people jump to such extremes and try to bully me into some sort of view that conforms with them. The second reason- is to see how people felt about the actual hunters themselves- again, very hostile and little respect. I'd be willing to bet that most of the hunters on the show have more respect and love for the reptiles than most in the hobby today and I'd also bet they know a solid bit about snakes too.

Now this brings me to the last part of the reason. I wanted to get the feel for the attitude of the reptile community. The more forums I become a part of, the more hobbyists I meet, the more hands I shake I realize one simple fact. The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby. Until people learn the world doesn't revolve around their opinion and their way of doing things, and extremes we will never better this hobby.

I read a topic not long ago about someone burying a snake with a pinkie inside of a bag, under sand. I read multiple pages of people bashing bost the OP and the source the information was from. Rather than educating the person through logic, or arguing rationally based on scientific facts, people felt the need to act arrogant. I talk to so many new reptile keepers as part of my business. A vast majority of people are terrified to get into reptiles as they don't know where to start. The industry is scary and I see people walk out of herp shops all day long confused to the point of no repair.

Baby steps people. I'd rather help someone grow in their knowledge and understanding of these creatures one step at a time than bashing them for letting their first corn snake die. I'd rather a few snakes die along the way- in the process of educating and helping a new keeper learn and grow, than force them out of the hobby all together.


first of all....since im pretty sure you were referring to me about this.....nobody was trying to "bully you into a view that conforms with them" everyone has their own opinion and they are entitled to that.

what did you really expect coming into a reptile forum full of reptile enthusiasts and bringing up a topic like the rattlesnake round ups? hugs and kisses?

"The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby."

question....did you go into every forum that you joined and bring up the same topic (rattlesnake round up)? if so then you have NO REASON to be surprised at any hostile comments or negative responses you got from people. for you to say that the reptile community is harsh, hostile and negative is extremely bias. but....your entitled to your own opinion

and while i agree that there are many people that own snakes that probably shouldnt, for whatever reason, to say that snake owners will be the demise of the hobby is insulting to every snake owner that properly cares and loves their animal (including myself). Especially when the ignorance in pet stores all over North America is as bad as it is.

[Will0W783]

The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby.

No, sir, people like YOU are what will eventually kill this hobby.

I take serious offense to your view that anyone who doesn't approve of rattlesnake roundups or of culling an animal that might have a chance at survival is a tree-hugging hippie who'd take their snake to the store with them.

I happen to be what I consider to be a middle-ground, sane yet loving, herper. I do not advocate toting snakes or other reptiles around in public- it's stressful to the animal, frightening to the general public, and gives herpers a bad name. I respect my snakes for what they are- primitive, instinct-driven creatures of habit. I would not cuddle with one, nor would I run around out in the general public with one around my shoulders. I would never leave my property with them, because they are and always will be wild animals that cannot be fully domesticated. HOWEVER, that does not mean that I do not love them and care for them as pets.

You say you've had problems and been met with hostility on other reptile forums as well. Hmm, maybe this should tell you something. Maybe you should stop and think about how you are coming across. But no, it's the rest of the world that is wrong. Every other reptile keeper is a narrow-minded, hostile individual, while you alone have the sole enlightened view.

[infernalis]

it's the rest of the world that is wrong. Every other reptile keeper is a narrow-minded, hostile individual, while you alone have the sole enlightened view.


http://www.tinygif.com/data/media/8/busey_clapping_applause.gif

[Will0W783]

Hahahaha!! Infernalis, you find the best animated .gifs!!! ROFL!

[shaunyboy]

Due to the very low oxygen requirements of the reptile brain, the rattlesnakes head is fully aware and still quite alive for MANY minutes after decapitation.

Imagine your own decapitation if your were to remain conscious for another half hour before the lights went out.

However since snakes lack logic and reasoning, one can only imagine what that head must be thinking.


great point wayne

there have been scientific studys done that reckoned snakes can still feel pain up to 1 hour after decapitation

this is why i advocate full cranial destruction as the best and most painless way to euthinise a snake

the brain is crushed before it even registers any pain at all (its over in milli seconds)

its a horrible proccess to do but its best for the snake

imo taking a snake on a car journey,then sitting in a vetinary waiting room,then the vet fiddling about with the snake getting it ready for euthinisation,then the actual ethinisation is way too long and stressfull for the snake

especially compaired to.....

take snake out tank,hold head firmly on a hard surface,then in one fast accurate movement crush head with large flat hammer

i know it sounds gruesome folks but sit and think about it,which method would you personally preffer if you were being euthinised your selfs.the slow way or the fast way ?

my apologys for having to be so graffic but its something i feel strongly about

imo folk only think its best taking things to the vet to be ethinised because its become the accepted norm and also they can walk away while its being done.so therefore they can dettatch themselves from the situation

whether it makes us feel queasy or not we all owe our animals the quickest most painless death if its needed and our personal feelings should not enter the equasion

cheers shaun

[totheend]

The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby.

.

I agree with this. Everyone who thinks their snake needs to go to the grocery store with them, or go for a car ride. All the people that think their monitor wants to go to the dog park. The people that keep hots with no education and gets bit. For everyone that had a giant escape.... These things hit the news fast, and so then new by laws are set in place. Until one day when we can't keep any more.

Not to mention all the hostility and arguing within the hobby.......

[infernalis]

The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby. Until people learn the world doesn't revolve around their opinion and their way of doing things, and extremes we will never better this hobby.

I read a topic not long ago about someone burying a snake with a pinkie inside of a bag, under sand. I read multiple pages of people bashing bost the OP and the source the information was from. Rather than educating the person through logic, or arguing rationally based on scientific facts, people felt the need to act arrogant. I talk to so many new reptile keepers as part of my business. A vast majority of people are terrified to get into reptiles as they don't know where to start. The industry is scary and I see people walk out of herp shops all day long confused to the point of no repair.

Baby steps people. I'd rather help someone grow in their knowledge and understanding of these creatures one step at a time than bashing them for letting their first corn snake die. I'd rather a few snakes die along the way- in the process of educating and helping a new keeper learn and grow, than force them out of the hobby all together.

For one, Comparing the post made by sickvenom is not going to fly, That was irrational, wrong and as far as I am concerned, asking an entire forum to harass someone because of one person's screwed up viewpoints is just about as immature as one can get. sounds like school girls ("I hate ralph, so you must hate ralph too")

[TeaNinja]

lol jesus, i just read what you quoted wayne, that's bad.

funny how dehlida and sickvenom have a lot in common lol.
honestly if you're trying to "educate" people and you're letting them kill off their snakes, you shouldn't be giving advice to ANYONE EVER.