How to tell when a rat pup isnt enough? [Archive]

forza_inter

06-21-11, 01:25 PM

Hey, hows everyone doing? so i've had my 5 month old dumerils boa on rat pups since i got her (been about a month and a half now)...and up until today her feeding commenced the same every week.....i put her in her feeding box, shed take the rat pup, stay coiled around it for 5-10 mins, then swallow it. while she eats i did my weekly full cage cleaning. take out any poo i may have missed during regular spot checks, stir up the subtrate a bit for her, wash her rock cave thing and her water dish- you get the point...

usually i would have more then enough time then dome to do all this and she would usually have just started eating.

i leave the lid on the box open a bit so i can peak in every once and a while to see how shes coming along....then today, i barely started cleaning everything and i went to look in and she was just swallowing the last of the tail....i was shocked, ive never had her eat that fast. so needless to say i have to rush like crazy to get everything done and put her back.

so i was wondering if maybe its time to move up from rat pups or was she maybe just really hungry today?

(i havent posted any photos of her in a while so i'll add some for you guys as well)

NennaMeerkat

06-21-11, 01:36 PM

She may just be realizing the food she is eating is dead and there is no need to coil around it. However! Some snakes can take food items that seem to large for them. What I have been told before around here is that they should have a nice sized bulge that you can clearly see after the snake eats. If there is no bulge you could probably go up a size.

Someone I am sure will come along to verify this or alter my statement.

forza_inter

06-21-11, 01:45 PM

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/5753/img2011062000306.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-21

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/573/img2011053100196.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-21

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6240/img2011061200274.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-21

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/14/img2011061000268.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-21

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5616/img2011061700294.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-21
(her current up to date tank)

NennaMeerkat

06-21-11, 01:48 PM

Do any of those show her right after a feed? Also Nice setup :) What is the thing under the fake plants to the right?

forza_inter

06-21-11, 01:49 PM

forza_inter

06-21-11, 01:52 PM

thanks....its a wooden log i got from the pet store....yup paid over $30 for a piece of wood lol

but she loves it....i find her under there a lot more then under her rock

Do any of those show her right after a feed? Also Nice setup :) What is the thing under the fake plants to the right?

NennaMeerkat

06-21-11, 01:52 PM

actually its interesting that you say that....she didnt strike at it as fast as she usually does, but she coiled around it like normal so who knows....if she does start realizing that the food is dead will that make any diff? i mean as long as she eats it shes good no?

and no come to think of it i usually watch for the bulge as she slithers out of the box back into the tank and today i couldnt even find it.....

thanks :)

Plenty of captive snakes that, in the wild are quite wonderful strikers, never strike at all. As long as the snake eats you really don't have to worry about anything. Be glad she is eating for ya on a steady basis.

You might consider upping to the next larger food item, or if you aren't comfy with that...just double the size you are giving her now. Meaning giving her 2 items instead of one. I know that sometimes my little hognose will eat 2 pinkies instead of one and she is far to small to have anything larger yet. Just something to think about.

Wood Hide
I bought the same exact thing and broke it up into 4 pieces for my little hoggie. Its a nice more natural hide for snakes since many like to feel something right on top of them when they hide away. I thought that it was the same thing when I first saw the picture.

forza_inter

06-21-11, 02:00 PM

yea im pretty happy that i havent had any problems feeding her since the 1st failed attempt when i got her. maybe i'll try 2 next week....see how that goes

thanks a lot

Plenty of captive snakes that, in the wild are quite wonderful strikers, never strike at all. As long as the snake eats you really don't have to worry about anything. Be glad she is eating for ya on a steady basis.

You might consider upping to the next larger food item, or if you aren't comfy with that...just double the size you are giving her now. Meaning giving her 2 items instead of one. I know that sometimes my little hognose will eat 2 pinkies instead of one and she is far to small to have anything larger yet. Just something to think about.

Wood Hide
I bought the same exact thing and broke it up into 4 pieces for my little hoggie. Its a nice more natural hide for snakes since many like to feel something right on top of them when they hide away. I thought that it was the same thing when I first saw the picture.

Coffee Black

06-21-11, 02:08 PM

You could try going up the next size in the rat pup category, if you get to see the rats before you buy them. If you order them from Rodent Pro or something then it could be difficult to do. I had my coastal on rat pups that were about 20 grams or so. The ones she is on now are about 30 grams. The guy I buy them from has them grouped up according to Rodent Pro's sizes, so I hand pick the pups that are a bit larger.

stephanbakir

06-21-11, 02:23 PM

Bringing them up a size is a good idea, some snakes constrict every once in a while but after eating F/T some just slurp food down like spaghetti!

forza_inter

06-21-11, 06:08 PM

Really? I didnt know that

Bringing them up a size is a good idea, some snakes constrict every once in a while but after eating F/T some just slurp food down like spaghetti!

stephanbakir

06-21-11, 06:52 PM

Not quite like spaghetti, but they slither up to the food, open their mouths and eat.
Like any other snake eating without the forplay.

TeaNinja

06-21-11, 07:03 PM

my big male dumerils definetly eats f/t differently then live. when i first got him he would wait totally still then snack the live rat as it walked up to his face. with f/t he just kind of bites it and pulls it in and eats it instead of the whole constricting/kill thing.

i'd guess that they WOULD eat faster when they are super hungry.i can't say for sure, but i KNOW that when my dumerils is pretty hungry he will strike the f/t rat in his cage within like 10 minutes, and when he isn't super hungry he leaves it all night and when i wake up it's gone by morning.

also if the prey isn't leaving a decent belly lump, it's probably time to up it a size.

here's my girl dum that i just got recently, she's pretty much in the same boat. she's eating the rat pups i have bred but she can probably up a size also
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/postshedoracle001.jpg

here's a good example of a good sized feeding lump from my ball python.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/bpfeedingbulge001.jpg

btw, your snake has some really nice head and body markings :)

forza_inter

06-28-11, 11:17 AM

thanks zak

just fed her again, and she can definitely tell its not live....she just bites it quickly and kinda pulls it under 1 coil and starts to eat almost immediately. im not noticing any lump in her stomach at all and when i went to put the shoe box back inside her tank she refused to get out lol. she usually slithers out right away or after about a min or two....she didnt leave for at least 10 minutes, and i had to also keep tilting the box more and more to direct her out....she just kept coming back up lol never seen her do that so im guessing she was expecting more.

she also goes right into 1 of her hides after she eats....shes been in her tank for a good 5 mins and shes just staying on her log, in the open, searching around like shes looking for more food lol crazy girl. that was the last rat pup i had so the timing worked out well. i'll def be moving up a size in prey

what is the next size? specific name for it? or should i just go into the store and explain it to them?

TeaNinja

06-28-11, 11:27 AM

i'm pretty sure it goes pup, weaned, small, medium, large.
and it Definetly sounds like she was still hungry and can up a size. i fed my little girl one of my rats the other day and they are generally around "small" size right now and she had a pretty chunky lump after eating.

forza_inter

06-28-11, 11:40 AM

so 'weaned' would be what i need....how much bigger are they compared to the rat pups? like heres a pic of her just after i put her back in her tank....i cant even see any lump (also managed to finally snap a pic with her mouth open!)

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4928/img2011062800341.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-28

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/8880/img2011062800353.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-06-28

stephanbakir

06-28-11, 11:46 AM

Great pic, you can use rats 1.5 times as wide as the widest part of the body, or the same width without worry with most snakes.

TeaNinja

06-28-11, 11:58 AM

i would go for a "small" rat and see how that goes. if the pup doesn't even make a seeable lump, you need a decent size upgrade.

like i said, my girl dum SEEMS like its roughly the same size as yours, and she powered down a small the other day and had a pretty decent belly lump.

eh, double checking the pics mine might be a TOUCH bigger then yours. either a weaned or a small would do fine, but i bet she could eat a small no problem.

forza_inter

06-28-11, 12:03 PM

sounds good....thanks guys

forza_inter

07-05-11, 01:08 PM

well it would seem moving up to a small rat was a success lol

thanks again guys

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3879/img2011070500494.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-07-05

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3204/img2011070500501.jpg
By dan_mancuso (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dan_mancuso) at 2011-07-05

marionsclan

07-05-11, 02:31 PM

Now I have to ask about going up in size for my BP. I've been feeding her 2 rat fuzzies weekly which are about the size of her at her thickest part. I was thinking of going up to a weaned one, but not sure if her mouth can handle it. The last time she was feeding on a fuzzy I saw her throat, right after her head, stretch so far that I could see skin between the scales. Is that OK during feeding?

TeaNinja

07-05-11, 02:47 PM

believe me, the mouth can handle it lol.

forza, that feeding bulge seems much better ;)
you can actually notice it.

forza_inter

07-05-11, 03:07 PM

yea i didnt think my girl would be able to inhale a small rat like she did today....her head and neck seem so small, but believe me they manage to get it all in lol

they truly are amazing reptiles

Now I have to ask about going up in size for my BP. I've been feeding her 2 rat fuzzies weekly which are about the size of her at her thickest part. I was thinking of going up to a weaned one, but not sure if her mouth can handle it. The last time she was feeding on a fuzzy I saw her throat, right after her head, stretch so far that I could see skin between the scales. Is that OK during feeding?

TeaNinja

07-05-11, 03:09 PM

my girl ate a Big small rat the other day and she immediately went into blue a day or two later so she's extra fat and lazy lol.

Jay

07-05-11, 03:26 PM

A lot of places very on size.
Pinkies (3 – 9g)
Fuzzies (10 – 19g)
Pups (20 – 29g)
Weanlings (30 – 49g)
Small (50 – 84g)
Medium (85 – 174g)
Large (175 – 274g)
Jumbo / Retired Breeders (275g+)

That's my sizes, again it varies store to store

marionsclan

07-05-11, 03:30 PM

hmmm... seems to me I need to get a scale. Any recommendations where to get the cheapest?

Lankyrob

07-05-11, 03:32 PM

My bp pounds rat around twice the size of the body with no probs.

marvelfreak

07-05-11, 03:34 PM

hmmm... seems to me I need to get a scale. Any recommendations where to get the cheapest?
Check this site not bad prices for real good scales. Digital Scales (http://www.reptilebasics.com/digital-scales)

marionsclan

07-05-11, 03:34 PM

My bp pounds rat around twice the size of the body with no probs.

No kidding?!? Welllll... guess I have to upgrade.

TeaNinja

07-05-11, 03:37 PM

yea, my bp is a piglett also.

marionsclan

07-05-11, 05:20 PM

Oh she eats good. Just don't see any poop but don't feel any swelling or clumps either so I figure she's doing alright.

I've been feeding her life because that's what she was used to and I didn't want to add another change on top of the new owner. I just wish she would not be so lazy and actually look for the head when striking. Sometimes she grabs the legs and rolls around that. <sigh> Any way of teaching a snake how to strike?

forza_inter

07-05-11, 05:41 PM

Try heating up the head of the rat...that might help

Lankyrob

07-06-11, 10:47 AM

If she isnt striking well you really want to get her onto f/t as soon as possible. If she grabs a rat badly it WILL attack back (who wouldnt!) and you will end up with either an injured snake if you are lucky or a dead one if you arent.

forza_inter

07-06-11, 11:29 AM

Try heating up the head of the rat...that might help

wow nvm....completely missed the part about you feeding her live

but yea im 100% with what Rob said, try to get her onto F/T. Ive seen 1 too many pics of the kind of damage a rat can do to a snake....its bruuutal

marionsclan

07-06-11, 10:20 PM

That's why I switched her over from adult mice to rat fuzzies right away. I've tried f/t several times but never a response. Next time I'll try the brain thing or do the f/k.

Lankyrob

07-07-11, 03:52 AM

How long have you tried for? If you try f/t and if he doesnt take then give him a live one he will always hold on for the live. Make sure you dont give in, offer f/t and if he wont take it dont give him anything else, when he is hungry he will take it.

TeaNinja

07-07-11, 11:18 AM

marionsclan

07-07-11, 04:03 PM

also, you could try teasing him with it. if you get long tongs and tap the snakes body with the f/t sometimes it will get pissed off and strike it. not to mention it could mistake the teasing for a live prey item (which it wants) so if you can trick it into thinking the f/t is a live, score 1 for the home team.

I've tried that but it just scared her and she kept trying to get away. Besides, I've read that by trying to anger them into striking you can create a fight or flight response and some snakes become afraid and hesitant to strike.

TeaNinja

07-07-11, 04:31 PM

mk, it works for some snakes so i figured i'd throw it out there. my female dum has only had live and i gave her her first f/t the other day and i had to wiggle it around and poked her alittle bit and she grabbed it up right away.

thinking about it again she's a super good movement hunter. i watched her snatch a rat pup from across her cage a few weeks ago. as soon as i started moving the f/t around near her she grabbed it up.