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Snakesitter
06-20-11, 09:33 PM
This week at Living Gems Reptiles, we are taking a break from our regular updates to discuss an unusual topic: sudden color fade in the Brazilian Rainbow Boa. A little understood -- and less discussed -- part of keeping this gorgeous subspecies, this phenomenon is an intriguing possibility of which any current or potential owner should be aware.


Background
While Brazilians are known for changing color as they mature -- it is commonly said that babies can move one or two levels up or down the “quality scale” as they grow -- that is a gradual and ongoing process, often taking 18 to 30 months to fully occur.

Sometimes, however, a Brazilian changes color very unexpectedly and quickly. When this happens, the animal’s color almost seems to undergo a “fade” effect, often over the course of less than one shed.

There seem to two very separate and distinct forms of this phenomenon.

In the first, a Brazilian will lose *all* of its color, in effect completely “browning out” from its prior orange or red. By way of illustration, following is a picture of Stone, a then four-year-old male (he is the animal in the background; before he faded at age two and a half, he was the same color as the animal in the foreground):
http://premium1.uploadit.org/ViaWea/FadeGene/Picture.jpg
The above picture is courtesy of Daniel (used by permission); Living Gems has not yet experienced this type of fade directly.

In the second form, the animal will lose only *part* of its color, leaving a fascinating patchwork of vibrant and whitish areas. By way of illustration, here is a picture set of our own Hills, an (estimated) four-and-half-year-old male with firecracker-level orange color. The set was taken in the context of his pairing with Alexandrite, the female in the photos, and spans a period of three months.

February
http://premium1.uploadit.org/ViaWea/FadeGene/2011-02.jpg

March
http://premium1.uploadit.org/ViaWea/FadeGene/2011-03.jpg

April
http://premium1.uploadit.org/ViaWea/FadeGene/2011-04.jpg

May
http://premium1.uploadit.org/ViaWea/FadeGene/2011-05.jpg

As you can see, the fade hit very suddenly between March and April, a period of less than one shed. Up until May, I had thought it a temporary condition brought on by breeding stress, one which would disappear after a break, a meal, and a shed. It did not, leaving Hills with a novel new look.


Analysis
While I had heard of the first type of color fade, the second was new to me. Having spoken to many of the top Brazilian breeders since that date, here is what we have been able to determine:

One, while uncommon, color fades are not as rare as they might seem. Of the nine top breeders I spoke with directly, eight had personally witnessed this phenomenon. Their experience ranged from single animals to multiple occurrences. (One of the eight had experienced the first fade type only, and the ninth never answered directly.) In addition to their own experiences, several were able to relate stories of other breeders and customers who had experienced fades. Based on this data, I suspect the phenomenon is publicly underreported -- and understandably so, as it would be very easy to scare away customers who did not understand the nature of this change.

Two, this does *not* seem to be a disease, affliction, or in any way health-related. With only one single exception, all animals that experienced a color fade were reported to be and remain in good health, continuing to eat, grow, poop, and breed exactly as they had before the change. Animals they were housed in the same collection, room, or even cage have been completely unaffected, even over the course of years. I was also told of several cases where the animals were maintained as front-line breeders even after a change, and continued to produce normal offspring. In other words, the color fade is cosmetic and affects the specific animal only.

Three, while a last-minute example proves this can affect a snake of any age, the reported incidents seem to affect *mostly* adults that are exposed to a breeding environment. In every reported case except that one, the animal was two and a half years or older (in other words, sexually mature), and either actively breeding or housed in a situation where they could sense and react to the opposite gender during breeding season.

So, if not a disease, exactly what is this?

The best collective guess, based on all these conversations -- including one with a breeder friend who was kind enough to have his geneticist colleague sit in -- is that the color fade phenomenon is probably controlled by a family of genes, and thus “non-calculably inheritable” (in other words, only one or two animals in each litter may eventually express it). In addition, it may have breeding hormones as a major trigger. By way of full disclosure, alternative theories included moisture-triggered (which I suspect coincides with breeding conditions, as many people raise humidity during breeding season), fecal burns (which is possible, but I’m pretty sure is inaccurate in Hills’ case), and some type of vitamin/mineral deficiency that interfered with the ability to synthesize color (possible, but even this would have a genetic underpinning, or many more Brazilians would fade).


Questions and Answers
This theory leads directly to two additional questions: how prevalent are these genes in the Brazilian market, and what do you do if one of your animals experiences a color fade?

I don’t think anyone can answer the first question. These genes are absolutely “out there” in the public market, as evidenced by the reported cases. But no one knows just how common they are, both because the change is unusual and not always reported. This is compounded by the fact that very few breeders know the genetics of their animals back more than one or two generations, so these genes can remain “hidden” in otherwise beautiful breeders.

For the second question, I would urge anyone who experiences a color fade to let the source breeder know. That tips them off to the fact that one of their animals carries this gene set, and they can then factor that into future breeding decisions.

While I cannot speak for other breeders, in Living Gems’ case, after much deliberation, we plan to continue breeding Hills. We have two solid reasons for this.

One, animals with color as intense as Hills are rare. We’ve moved on every pick of that quality we’ve seen over the past year, and have seen only two. We believe we have the appropriate female stock to develop that color while separating out the fade genes for use elsewhere.

Two, the color fade gene set seems to be poorly understood or researched. We are not aware of a single instance in which offspring have been tracked and reported on to gain more understanding -- which is a shame, because like all unusual genes, this set has the potential to be a strong plus in the right project. If an entire litter could be followed and reported on, it would collect some very useful data for the Brazilian community as a whole. We will work with our customers to collect and share that data.

As a final note, to reassure those customers pursuing Hill’s amazing color but not the fade genes, we are willing to extend a guarantee: if any customer who purchases these offspring experiences a fade and is *unhappy* with the result, we will give that individual a discount on a future baby. (Remember, this is anticipated to occur in only one or two animals per litter. We will probably tie this guarantee to the original purchaser and a set period of years, just to avoid age-related issues. As was pointed out by the geneticist, this change can happen naturally to older animals.)

Thoughts? Comments? We welcome your input!

stephanbakir
06-20-11, 09:50 PM
Really interesting read! Are there any visual warnings that an animal might change in the future?

Isaac's Ark
06-20-11, 11:35 PM
We are either blessed or cursed my friend,
We seem to be fighting the same battle only on different fronts. the worry is, that the only thing these snakes may have in common is the same food source. Under this copied and pasted version of my OP I will offer you all the relevant answers that were given to me. Problem is keep in mind every animal reacts different under different conditions so not all symptoms need to be present in order to determine similarities. We are still waiting on a stool sample and blood tests in order to rule out bacterial or viral, this leaves husbandry, diet, and genetics. All I am basing my claims on is the probabilities of 2 snakes developing the same issue from different species at or around the same time. Is a red flag covered in blood for us. Feel free to PM us for more personal records of the specimen in question. In a situation like this Isaac's Ark has a very Show me yours and I will show you mine approach. But we are open to a document exchange in order to help examine a second case and so on.

For well over 18 years I have been passionate about reptiles and for the last 12 I have made it a point to research everything I can find I have also managed to work in some of the most secretive reptile rooms, seen the ground floor of many morphs you all cherish today. In all my very insignificant few years of reptile services LOL. I have never seen this nor do I even know where to start with this animals history. The beginning I guess. lol. I am sure that you are all aware that The Ark's head curator is Chris Nicholas. When Isaac's Ark was conceived Chris and I combined our reptile rooms and found and investor to help stimulate the diversity of our collection. After long deliberation trying to name this company my son asked what we were doing and we replied we were preparing his future. My son's name is Isaac the rest is history.

This brings us to current time after consolidating the collection all animals became our animals well in all reality this is one of Chris's salmons. This male is approaching 3 years old. He has had a rough adjustment period But now this male has started acting up he took food 3 times and regurgitated every time. The rest of the room is doing wonderfully mind you. This guy is just a little off after progressively down sizing the prey item every 2 weeks talk about a nail bitter of a month. He finally ate and kept it down passed it threw and naturally shed his skin......NOW here is where it gets all weird the pictures will explain themselves. A side note tho none of the scales seem rotten or scraped the integrity and gloss of each scale is proper and healthy it just exhibiting a way weird color change. There is only one Snake I have seen do this and that was the calico boa we have yet it was never this fast nor was it in such big chunks of color. And I never heard of a Calico Salmon boa.....Yet lol. The before picture is a few months old yet it is the only proper reference I have as a before picture. Any Ideas fire away.

Before Shed
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/10SalmonPossTHMoonglow.jpg

After Shed
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1735.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1736.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1739.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1742.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1744.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1746.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/IsaacsArk/Water%20Marked%20Photos/IMG_1747.jpg

Fat Rats? (http://www.basicallyboas.com/whats_new.html)

Yep that is it with the help of other breeders on our end as well this was one of the only answers that we could find multiple breeders using international reptile connections and we are all dumb founded.

Isaac's Ark
Project Manager

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 01:08 AM
Really interesting read! Are there any visual warnings that an animal might change in the future?
Stephan, I know one breeder who feels there is, but I have not seen the signs he/she speaks of. I suspect more research needs to be done to make sure.

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 01:22 AM
We are either blessed or cursed my friend.
Well….I always prefer the “glass half full” to the “glass half empty” outlook. ;-)

We seem to be fighting the same battle only on different fronts. the worry is, that the only thing these snakes may have in common is the same food source. …But now this male has started acting up he took food 3 times and regurgitated every time.
I suspect, Issac, that these are two completely different conditions. Hills has not suffered any digestive or regurg issues at all, and I am not aware that any of the other Brazilians that have undergone this fade have, either. Have you considered the fact that a bad rodent may have caused your issue? I seem to recall hearing about a similar case some years back, something about too much fat in the rodents.…perhaps a forum member with a better memory for those details than I can explain the history.

Fingers crossed for you, though!

NennaMeerkat
06-21-11, 04:53 AM
So first off I will be honest and say that I haven't read everything here 100% but I do have a question/theory about this whole theory of color fade.

I noticed in the pictures provided all the snakes were in tubs and I would assume they are kept in tubs? What if being in tubs with no natural sunlight (or UV light) could be causing the color fade? I know snakes like to hide and stuff but in the wild wouldn't they be exposed to natural light to some degree or at some significant point? Especially the hotter climated ones that live in trees ect.

marvelfreak
06-21-11, 07:25 AM
Ok first off it i only happen around sexually mature maybe it their way of trying to attract a mate. Maybe some have a gene in them were they could do this. Also Colombian rainbow fad to one color. Maybe some where down the line a Brazilian and Colombian were crossed. That's about the age most CRB fade.
Also maybe it' has something to do with Natural sun light. I use to keep my snakes in my bedroom tons of sunlight coming into the room. Now they are in my snake room in the basement they get only a 1/4 as much sunlight. I notice my BRB has gotten darker in color. The rest of my snakes have gotten lighter and brighter in color.

Ch^4
06-21-11, 09:50 AM
Cliff, stunning piece of literature, thank you for sharing!

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 12:16 PM
So first off I will be honest and say that I haven't read everything hereI realize it’s a long post, but it does contain useful background. ;-)

I noticed in the pictures provided all the snakes were in tubs and I would assume they are kept in tubs?.
No, none of my animals live in tubs. Each adult has its own 4x2 vivarium, as I feel adults deserve that space and respect. The tub you saw is their water bowl. Brazilians *love* water, so mine get bowls the size of most snake's entire homes. They may go in or out of the bowls as they choose.

What if being in tubs with no natural sunlight (or UV light) could be causing the color fade? I know snakes like to hide and stuff but in the wild wouldn't they be exposed to natural light to some degree or at some significant point? Especially the hotter climated ones that live in trees ect.Most snakes are advertised as not needing UV light. In the case of Brazilians this is especially appropriate, as they are a nocturnal and secretive species. They tend to be very uncomfortable in bright light. They are also a more terrestrial species, although babies can and will climb.

Thank you for the thoughts,

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 12:34 PM
Ok first off it i only happen around sexually mature….
Just for the record, this is not true in every case. There was one single example that defied this trend. That was why I softened my language to read “the reported incidents seem to affect *mostly* adults that are exposed to a breeding environment.”

…maybe it their way of trying to attract a mate. Maybe some have a gene in them were they could do this.*Interesting* theory. However, if that were the case, wouldn’t they change at the very start of breeding season, and then bounce back after it was all done? I like the idea, but I suspect it’s not the driving force here.

Also Colombian rainbow fad to one color. Maybe some where down the line a Brazilian and Colombian were crossed. That's about the age most CRB fade.Now that’s a fascinating theory! However, I see two pitfalls. The first is minor: many of the faded Brazilians have done so as early as age 2.5, much earlier than a Colombian would. The second is much more major: this trait seems to have surfaced in several different Brazilian lineages, and it is unlikely they *all* were cross-bred in that manner.

Also maybe it' has something to do with Natural sun light.See above. This is another one I would regard as highly unlikely for this particular species. Though I could always be wrong….

Great stuff guys, please keep it coming!

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 12:35 PM
Cliff, stunning piece of literature, thank you for sharing!
Wow, thank you, Ch^4!!

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 12:46 PM
Isaac's Ark, I apologize; I just noticed that you had a link to the very rat problem I was thinking of at the bottom of your thread! I still feel these to be different issues, however. The supplier associated with your issue is not one I've ever used for anything above fuzzies, and the issue seems restricted to larger rodents than Brazilians eat anyway. Fingers still crossed for you, though!

Isaac's Ark
06-21-11, 12:55 PM
Thank you for taking note and consideration and good job ruling out a lot of the real negative stuff surrounding such a situation, now it is just a really cool mysteryand less of a cause for concern.

still waiting on our results....

NennaMeerkat
06-21-11, 01:01 PM
Hey Issac Ark if you do think it could be a certain food source that isn't 100% natural, or something the snake wouldn't exclusively eat why not try something besides rodent? I know some people use fowl...baby/young chickens. I know in a zoo I worked for they almost exclusively used chicken for their larger snakes.

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 01:52 PM
Thank you for taking note and consideration and good job ruling out a lot of the real negative stuff surrounding such a situation, now it is just a really cool mysteryand less of a cause for concern.

still waiting on our results....
You had a highly informative post, and totally deserved the consideration! It just happened to be a different cause. I should note, by way of further separation between these two issues, that a major Brazilian vendor recently told me that he has an animal fade, and she was fed nothing but home-grown rodents (except for maybe one or two meals in her entire life).

As you say, we can eliminate (or at least reduce) many of the potential causes, but the ultimate key is still a mystery.

Please let the forum know when your results come in!

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 01:57 PM
Hey Issac Ark if you do think it could be a certain food source that isn't 100% natural, or something the snake wouldn't exclusively eat why not try something besides rodent? I know some people use fowl...baby/young chickens. I know in a zoo I worked for they almost exclusively used chicken for their larger snakes.
Neena, my understanding of this particular issue is that it is caused by a certain type of very fatty rat, and that the damage, once done, does not always reverse. So while a switch away from that provider/rat type would help, the switch to an alternate food source would not render further aid. Isaac's Ark, please correct me if I'm wrong.

NennaMeerkat
06-21-11, 02:02 PM
Neena, my understanding of this particular issue is that it is caused by a certain type of very fatty rat, and that the damage, once done, does not always reverse. So while a switch away from that provider/rat type would help, the switch to an alternate food source would not render further aid. Isaac's Ark, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I figured it couldn't be reversed, I simply meant that to keep any further fading from happening in general in any of their snakes. Just me being curious again. Sorry if I am just coming off annoying.

Snakesitter
06-21-11, 03:12 PM
I figured it couldn't be reversed, I simply meant that to keep any further fading from happening in general in any of their snakes. Just me being curious again. Sorry if I am just coming off annoying.
Not at all! I was unsure how much background you had on this issue, so was only trying to help in return. Apologies right back if any of my replies have offended!