BP investments.

[stephanbakir]

My cousin has 1000$ that he wants to invest in BP's and hes trying to decide what to buy, anyone have any ideas?
He has someone who wants to sell him 1 male and 3 female lessers, but hes not sure he wants to breed the same thing over and over (all four of them are 500-800 grams)

[Max713]

If he's planning on actually making money off breeding balls, he's dreaming :)

Very few actually end up making money from breeding snakes.
As fo a response to your actual question, I don't have one, just throwin in my $.02

[mykee]

"If he's planning on actually making money off breeding balls, he's dreaming "

??!!

Disregard that last comment, it's rubbish and comes from someone clearly with zero experience or knowledge in the business of ball pythons.

$1000 will get you a lot more than it did when I started. With $1000 in 2002, you could buy one half of a male pastel. Enough of the waxing poetic.
$1000 can get you a slew of lower end babies that will give you eggs in three years.
Pastels: $100-$200 each
Mojaves: $200-$350 each
Lessers: $250-$400 each
Het clowns, het ghosts, het albinos: $50-$250 each

If your cousin is looking to turn around and start breeding sooner, he'll need bigger stuff, and with larger animals, comes a larger price tag. a grand won't get you much if you're impatient and aren't willing to sit on your babies for a few years to get them up to breeding size.

[Shmoges]

I can't find the video but BHB has a great one that shows some good starter bp's to get for certain amounts of money for breeding. Its very informative but they have to many videos lol I recommend watchign them all.
ps. get some popcorn and enjoy :D

SnakeBytes TV (http://snakebytes.tv/)

[Max713]

??!!

Disregard that last comment, it's rubbish and comes from someone clearly with zero experience or knowledge in the business of ball pythons.

$1000 will get you a lot more than it did when I started. With $1000 in 2002, you could buy one half of a male pastel. Enough of the waxing poetic.
$1000 can get you a slew of lower end babies that will give you eggs in three years.
Pastels: $100-$200 each
Mojaves: $200-$350 each
Lessers: $250-$400 each
Het clowns, het ghosts, het albinos: $50-$250 each

If your cousin is looking to turn around and start breeding sooner, he'll need bigger stuff, and with larger animals, comes a larger price tag. a grand won't get you much if you're impatient and aren't willing to sit on your babies for a few years to get them up to breeding size.
No, I do not have any personal experience, but I believe my statement holds true with most trying to breed herps.
As you said, $1000 will not get you much in trying to start, and one shouldn't expect any income from said operation for some time.
Sure there is plenty of opportunity to make money eventually, but the simple truth is most will never make money attempting to breed and sell herps.

[stephanbakir]

He mostly wants to do it for the fun, and his goal is to more or less break even while doing it.

[citysnakes]

Stephan, if your cousin doesnt buy those lessers let me know...

[stephanbakir]

If he doesn't ill be buying them I love lucies and hatching them would be a dream:P (i would only be buying 1 male and 1 female, want me to send you a PM for the other two if he choses not to buy them?)

[Shmoges]

Well as far as making money from breeding snakes I had an oops with my corn snakes and a local pet store will buy them for $10 each. I was considering giving them away but I'll take $170 for a very cool experience and it more than pays for the reptibator that was $100. I hope to have my snakes work for there food and self sustain themselves financially which I think will be quite easy.

[stephanbakir]

Well as far as making money from breeding snakes I had an oops with my corn snakes and a local pet store will buy them for $10 each. I was considering giving them away but I'll take $170 for a very cool experience and it more than pays for the reptibator that was $100. I hope to have my snakes work for there food and self sustain themselves financially which I think will be quite easy.

Thats more or less what hes trying to do.

[Shmoges]

If he develops a good relationship with local pet stores I am sure he can work with them and get some money. Otherwise, This fine site, kingsnake.com or fauna classifieds would be the place to sell babies IMO but they are much more complicated with shipping and payment. I wouldn't rehome or sell my animals on ebay classifieds or craigs list though way to much hastle and scammers. Local is the way to go until he gets more established.

[stephanbakir]

I have some experience shipping reptiles, shipped some geckos and some retics back when i bred them. Never tried shipping to the states though.

[Shmoges]

I think its illegal for animal shipments from Canada to America

[stephanbakir]

Don't you need a C.I.T.E.S permit and you're fine?

[Dehlida]

There is an amazing amount of money to be made from the reptile hobby, period. You need a basic understanding of the market, economics, and your animals, and you will do great.

For Ball Pythons- invest in what you like, if he's not in it for the money, he could honestly buy a normal male and female pair as babies for $50 at an expo. Raise them and breed them, even if you only get 3 viable babies, all of which are male. You can still resell them for $20 each at least at an expo, or better yet, sell them locally through various means as pets, for $40-$50, as it's still cheaper than a pet store, and they are captive bred (unlike most stores).

In a couple years you can turn that $50 pair of snakes into a few hundred dollars with relative ease, even easier if you use some money to invest into breeding your own feeder rodents.

[mykee]

C.I.T.E.S. II (for bp's) and you're fine.
A real hassle though.
I personally just stick to shipping within Canada.

"There is an amazing amount of money to be made from the reptile hobby, period. You need a basic understanding of the market, economics, and your animals, and you will do great.
For Ball Pythons- invest in what you like"
Words to live by. Buy what you want, because if you don't, you'll hate cleaning, feeding, watering, etc. in a years time and it will be work, not fun.
I have seen SOOOO many breeders come and go in this hobby in the past 12 year it isn't even funny. The three things they all had in common are:
1. They did it just for the money.
2. They produced what they thought the customers wanted and not what they like to keep.
3. They didn't have a plan.

You're not going to be rich overnight, those times have come and gone, but if you're smart, plan ahead and truly love it, you'll do fine.

[dshin963]

I am thinking about maybe breeding bloods in a few years first gotta figure out what i need

[Ch^4]

C.I.T.E.S. II (for bp's) and you're fine.
A real hassle though.
I personally just stick to shipping within Canada.


Words to live by. Buy what you want, because if you don't, you'll hate cleaning, feeding, watering, etc. in a years time and it will be work, not fun.
I have seen SOOOO many breeders come and go in this hobby in the past 12 year it isn't even funny. The three things they all had in common are:
1. They did it just for the money.
2. They produced what they thought the customers wanted and not what they like to keep.
3. They didn't have a plan.

You're not going to be rich overnight, those times have come and gone, but if you're smart, plan ahead and truly love it, you'll do fine.

Very wise words to follow. I've been building my breeders for a while and don't plan on seeing a cent for a couple years (and don't care). I just want to make pretty babies for my personal collection! (With the rare chance of producing something that is yet to be produced...). I've been keeping for 15+ years and it was only natural to transition into breeding (for me at least).

I think the toughest part for me will be actually letting the babies go.

[Dehlida]

As long as you plan and do things right, you can make money with any almost any reptile. Even corn snakes, which most breeders are getting out of because "they aren't worth anything". A pair of corns can toss out 15-20 eggs easy, each sold for $20-$40 locally as pets, just because breeders don't want them doesn't mean people don't for pets.

Give me 2 adult balls of any morph at a normal price, and I can almost gaurntee I can make money back in 2-3 years.

[frost]

my opinion, you must love snakes FIRST before attempting to make money off them... your 1000USD would be more profitable elsewhere if you are attempting to make money. i do not know your cousin but he might have been misinformed that "there is a lot of money in snakes"

BUT if he loves snakes, and will to wait years for ROI, then everything positive stated above is true.

[stephanbakir]

He loves snakes, he currently doesn't own any but he goes to all of his friends homes who own them an helps them clean cages for free just to get in contact with the animals (he does this daily) now that he moved out he can get snakes and wants to go in with both feet.

[mykee]

"i do not know your cousin but he might have been misinformed that "there is a lot of money in snakes"

There most certainly is a "lot of money in snakes". The money is made by volume breedings and building u7p your collection over years to have genetically potent animals in your collection.

"Give me 2 adult balls of any morph at a normal price, and I can almost gaurntee I can make money back in 2-3 years"

In a perfect world where you get 8 perfect eggs every season and get free feeders from a friend, yes.
Otherwise, not a chance. Not with two animals.

For fun:
You buy two adult lessers (value $2000)

You build enclosures, incubator and thermostats for each; $600.
You feed them medium rats ($3.50) once a week for a year: $360/yr.
Water, electricity, bedding, misc.: $300/yr.
That's $3260 for the first year you're in, and $660 for each of the remaining two years: $4580
Not even counting your time, you're already down $4580.
You now need to produce $4580 worth of animals just to break even.

Of those three years, you produce babies twice (that's being optimistic) and you get two clutches of 6 each year.

Year #2, male lesser babies are worth $250 and females are worth $350: $1800.

Now you are only down $2780.

Year #3, male lesser babies are worth $175 and females are worth $300: $1425.

Now you're only down $1355.

Congratulations, you are in the hole $1355 and you have two burned out adult lessers, and you didn't hold back a single animal to expand.
I also assumed that none of your animals required a trip to the vet and are 100% healthy.
If you want out entirely, you can now sell your male adult lesser for $300 and each adult female for $800 for a total of $1900.

You are now up $545.
So figure three years of time, four hours a week of cleaning, feeding, watering, hatching babies, maintaining equipment: 208 hrs./yr.
624 hours over three years.
You made a whopping $0.87 an hour.
Nice work!

[stephanbakir]

With math like that everyone will start breeding snakes!

[reptile65]

There most certainly is a "lot of money in snakes". The money is made by volume breedings and building u7p your collection over years to have genetically potent animals in your collection.



In a perfect world where you get 8 perfect eggs every season and get free feeders from a friend, yes.
Otherwise, not a chance. Not with two animals.

For fun:
You buy two adult lessers (value $2000)

You build enclosures, incubator and thermostats for each; $600.
You feed them medium rats ($3.50) once a week for a year: $360/yr.
Water, electricity, bedding, misc.: $300/yr.
That's $3260 for the first year you're in, and $660 for each of the remaining two years: $4580
Not even counting your time, you're already down $4580.
You now need to produce $4580 worth of animals just to break even.

Of those three years, you produce babies twice (that's being optimistic) and you get two clutches of 6 each year.

Year #2, male lesser babies are worth $250 and females are worth $350: $1800.

Now you are only down $2780.

Year #3, male lesser babies are worth $175 and females are worth $300: $1425.

Now you're only down $1355.

Congratulations, you are in the hole $1355 and you have two burned out adult lessers, and you didn't hold back a single animal to expand.
I also assumed that none of your animals required a trip to the vet and are 100% healthy.
If you want out entirely, you can now sell your male adult lesser for $300 and each adult female for $800 for a total of $1900.

You are now up $545.
So figure three years of time, four hours a week of cleaning, feeding, watering, hatching babies, maintaining equipment: 208 hrs./yr.
624 hours over three years.
You made a whopping $0.87 an hour.
Nice work!

Wow, haha. That was kind of funny to read... But it definitely puts things into perspective.

[mykee]

It needs to be a labour of love that you get paid for eventually, otherwise it's just another job that pays a crappy hourly wage.
The "business" aspect of this hobby (at least for me) is such a small part of the overall experience. Again, and I'll say it until it sinks in, if you're getting into this to become a millionaire, that time has passed. Get into balls because you love them.

[stephanbakir]

You can tell when a man loves his balls and isn't just into them for the money.

[Dehlida]

I don't really count the wage/hr thing, because I enjoy the snakes. I'd do that for free anyway haha. As for the lesser example, I'm not sure how I feel about the price you listed for the 2, considering he's getting his group for 1k, it would be very easy to make back the money and then some in my eyes..

[stephanbakir]

They arent breeding size yet, isnt it 800g male and 1300g female?
You always pay more for breeder size reptiles.

[stephanbakir]

That, and hes getting a fantastic deal. Normally its much higher for animals of this size and morph, the guy just has money issues and hes selling cheap.

[BHR]

It needs to be a labour of love that you get paid for eventually, otherwise it's just another job that pays a crappy hourly wage.
The "business" aspect of this hobby (at least for me) is such a small part of the overall experience. Again, and I'll say it until it sinks in, if you're getting into this to become a millionaire, that time has passed. Get into balls because you love them.
this is so true .. I lost 90% of my collection a few years back bad divorce lost my shop now just breeding a few BP's to get the morphs that I like if i make a buck over time great if i lose a few along the way I don't care its all about the fun now ...

[mykee]

BHR= BigHillReptiles!!!! Hey Paul!! Welcome back to the site!!

"As for the lesser example, I'm not sure how I feel about the price you listed for the 2, considering he's getting his group for 1k, it would be very easy to make back the money and then some in my eyes.. "
The prices I quoted were for two breeder-sized adults. $2000 is dead on, if not, a little under.

[BHR]

ya man my old e-mail was hacked so had to start over sucks but whjat can ya do Live laugh and hunt the ****** down lol