View Full Version : mouth question...
Just had Sneezy out, and noticed that his mouth was not totally closed.. I looked closely at it, and could see some black residue type stuff just inside his mouth... I tried to get pictures, but he is a very active snake that never stops moving! Other wise, everything else is fine, temps are good, he's as active as ever, but I am very concerned about this. My first thoughts are: mites? Mouth rot? Please help!
This is the best pic I could get
stephanbakir
05-12-11, 12:31 AM
Cant really see, is it old shed? Is it INSIDE the mouth? Any smell? any raspy breathing?
Its inside his mouth, and I have noticed a rasping sound from him. Think it could be an RI?
stephanbakir
05-12-11, 12:36 AM
Could be, if you caught it early it should be easy to fix.
I'm going to talk to a vet over the phone, as the closest herp vet is an hour away. A few weeks ago, I had noticed him coiled up with his mouth slightly open, and now with the black stuff and raspy noise, I'm pretty scared.
TeaNinja
05-12-11, 12:49 AM
my bp holds his/her mouth open just a tiny bit sometimes but i've never seen anything in it. if you hear any popping or crackling or see bubbles or mucus in the mouth it's probably RI.
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/bpphotoshoot011.jpg
The last 2 days, Sneezy's mouth has been slightly opened all the time:(
There hasn't been and mucus, or bubbles, but I have noticed a kind of hiss sound (he was not hissing)
TeaNinja
05-12-11, 01:01 AM
a lot of the time if you hold them close you'll hear popping and crackling because of the mucus in their throat while they try to breathe. if he sounds raspy maybe he has mild RI or something. how are your temps? are they alittle cold?
do you have a moist hide in the viv?
His temps are good, 82 on the cool side and 90 on the warm side. These temps aren't exact, because I had to order all new supplies online, and they haven't come in yet. He doesn't have a moist hide. I'm pretty scared, so I'll talk to the vet tomorrow. Bad timing as tomorrow, my horse will be getting a $300 or more vet bill!
TeaNinja
05-12-11, 01:19 AM
yea, i was going to say if there is a moist hide on the cold side that = instant RI, but that's not the case.
stephanbakir
05-12-11, 06:42 AM
You shouldn't worry too too bad, if its an RI you probably caught it early and have little to worry about.
What's his humidity at? He doesn't need a humid hide if you have proper humidity in his enclosure.
Millinex
05-12-11, 11:08 AM
First thing first- does the tank have a screen top? If so STOP! First huge mistake is using a screen top cage on a ball python. He could have one or 2 things. Either an RI or mouth rot. Generally the best thing you can do, is isolate him in some sort of rubbermaid bin, where you can keep his humidity extremely high, and his temps high as well. Keep him warm and humid for awhile and it should clear up on its own.
I just got done killing off mouth rot and an RI on a ball python I got from some girl on craigslist. The Mouth rot was so bad you could see the puss/mucus oozeing out of his mouth. 2 weeks in the bin = good as new.
TeaNinja
05-12-11, 12:20 PM
my bp does PERFECTLY fine in his screen top glass tank.
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/teaninja/bp007-1.jpg
Millinex
05-12-11, 12:41 PM
Screen tops do not hold in humidity, at all, they are absolutely garbage when it comes to keeping any species that requires decent humidity, period. Also, just curious why you are running a light on a nocturnal snake instead of using a heat mat?
-Mike
I ordered a humidity gauge, it'll be here any day now. I mist lightly ever other day, and a humide hide is not being used, he's never had one.
I've had him for over a month now.
infernalis
05-12-11, 01:00 PM
I cover my BP tank with a sheet of plywood cut to size. works like a champ.
NennaMeerkat
05-12-11, 01:18 PM
Screen tops do not hold in humidity, at all, they are absolutely garbage when it comes to keeping any species that requires decent humidity, period. Also, just curious why you are running a light on a nocturnal snake instead of using a heat mat?
-Mike
Could be one of those nocturnal lamps that are turned on after dark.
TeaNinja
05-12-11, 01:18 PM
Screen tops do not hold in humidity, at all, they are absolutely garbage when it comes to keeping any species that requires decent humidity, period. Also, just curious why you are running a light on a nocturnal snake instead of using a heat mat?
-Mike
it's a che, there is no light. he sheds like a savage in 1 piece so i can't see how there isn't enough humidity. i have a little more then half of the screen taped on both sides to keep extra humidity in. if my BP eats like a champ every week and sheds perfectly i can't see how you are right. i agree screen tops make it much harder to maintain, but i do it quite easily. so saying DON'T do it, it WON'T hold humidity is bs.
The screen is 80% covered by towels, the heat is being kept in well, so I can only assume that the humidity is as well.
The stick on thermometer about his hide reads at 90, I'm keeping a very close eye on him.
Millinex
05-12-11, 03:22 PM
Could be one of those nocturnal lamps that are turned on after dark.
Which are extremely worthless and just a pet store gimmick...
it's a che, there is no light. he sheds like a savage in 1 piece so i can't see how there isn't enough humidity. i have a little more then half of the screen taped on both sides to keep extra humidity in. if my BP eats like a champ every week and sheds perfectly i can't see how you are right. i agree screen tops make it much harder to maintain, but i do it quite easily. so saying DON'T do it, it WON'T hold humidity is bs.
If you have the screen taped, it's fine, I was saying the screen itself is bad, most people use uncovered screen tops, which do NOT hold in humidity. If you try to tell me a normal screen top, unaltered will hold in humidity, I'll laugh at you.
In general, I tell people to stay away from screen tops, because in all reality- most aren't bright enough to figure out to cover it.
The screen is 80% covered by towels, the heat is being kept in well, so I can only assume that the humidity is as well.
The stick on thermometer about his hide reads at 90, I'm keeping a very close eye on him.
Try saran wrap instead, towels never did overly well for me, and absorbed more moisture than held in.
-Mike
infernalis
05-12-11, 03:51 PM
The reflection was a dead giveaway... (I'm a nut for attention to details)
http://www.thamnophis.co/proof/reflection.jpg
TeaNinja
05-12-11, 05:22 PM
im glad you saw the reflection lol. it's ok, i was just saying to say blatently that it can't be done is just dumb.
infernalis
05-12-11, 08:11 PM
im glad you saw the reflection lol. it's ok, i was just saying to say blatently that it can't be done is just dumb.
anythings possible Zak. I love non conventional methods..
"Mike just left a forum where every word he said was challenged, he means well, he just has to adjust from being argued with at every turn. "
Well then Wayne, Mike is going to feel right at home....
"I just got done killing off mouth rot and an RI on a ball python I got from some girl on craigslist. The Mouth rot was so bad you could see the puss/mucus oozeing out of his mouth. 2 weeks in the bin = good as new."
What terrible, terrible advice!
No animal that goes untreated with mouth rot AND an RI is EVER "good as new" again.
What it does means to you is that your animal fought off some of the weaker bacteria well enough to eliminate the outward, physical symptoms (with ZERO help from you I might add) and that the more resisitant bacteria (I can only presume that it is in fact bacteria, because you didn't take him to the vet) are not only still alive, but are more than likely hanging around waiting for a much worse second round against an already immuno-compromised animal.
Very irresponsible.
Newbie mistake on your part.
To flaunt your irresponsibility and cavalier attitude towards your animals health publicly is not cool, or helpful.
Keep in mind I have common sense on my side, so it is going to be a bit of a lop-sided arguement should you decide to go that way...
Aaron_S
05-12-11, 10:08 PM
Well he's banned anyway but I'd like to just say he's partly right. I believe in getting a culture done for an RI. If it's viral you've got a long battle ahead of you. Bacteria is still a worry but it's easier to get rid of. Usually doesn't come back if proper husbandry is kept. Viral, doesn't really matter. I've known a lot of burmese pythons who get an RI and never seem to really "kick it". Probably due to the fact it's viral and people attempt to 'cure' it as if it was bacterial. As soon as you put the husbandry back to "normal" there is a relapse.
^^ Ninja poster...LOL
I was going to say something *smart* in my post, but I deleted it and posted what you see. I have a great deal of respect for academia (8+ years of college and still counting), but I will be the first to tell you (you as in name-caller), that nothing beats experience and Mykee is full of it--experience that is.
I guess that came out nicer than I thought?!
^^ gotcha!
The screen is 80% covered by towels, the heat is being kept in well, so I can only assume that the humidity is as well.
The stick on thermometer about his hide reads at 90, I'm keeping a very close eye on him.
Try to get a digital thermometer/hygrometer (I prefer ones with probes). If you're on a budget, you can find them at walmart. It is good to know what the actual temps are and what the RH is, despite the covered top, for the sake of your snake's health.
Stick-on thermometers read the temperature of the glass, which is not the temperature your snake is being subjected to.
Keep us updated.
Wow... I had a genuine concern about my snake's well being.... Asked a question, and look at what happened. That is really sad... The only reason that people commented on this thread is because they wanted to be a part of the drama.
As for the reason that I wanted to post this question, Sneezy is active as always, feed day is tonight at 11pm, I know he's hungry (he's been doing the 'hungry dance') so if he's still eating and showing that he's eager to eat, should I still be worried???
I will try to get a good picture of his mouth, as I've said, he never stops moving!
I'm working with what I have, no pet stores within an hours' drive have any supplies for reptiles, so I had to order it all online. I have the PE 2 temp gun, and exo terra digital hygrometer on the way, should be here any day now... I bought Sneezy from a guy that didn't have a thermometer or humidity gage of any kinds in the glass fish tank, so I'm doing all I can until my supplies get here.
Should I just get him to a vet??? (No bickering responses to this question, please)
Lankyrob
05-13-11, 05:12 AM
MY personal experience with animals is that if you feel you need to ask if an animal needs a vet then it most likely does.
Dont worry about the haters - pop up all the time and disappear fairly quickly too - take any advice Mykee can give you about BP's - he is our BP god!
Very true. I don't hesitate calling the vet for my dog and horses, but I'm not experienced with snakes, so I want to make sure I'm not being paranoid.
The nearest herp vet is 1.5 hours away.. Won't that be really stressful for Sneezy? How do I go about taking him to the vet while keeping him as stress free as possible?
Lankyrob
05-13-11, 05:20 AM
Put him in a pillowcase - put the case in a box and use screwed up newspaper to "pack" it in so it wont roll around too much - put the box in the footwell of the car and keep the heater running/ This is what we do when we take snakes to schools for the kids to learn about them.
stephanbakir
05-13-11, 05:51 AM
Make sure that if the heater is running the box isnt in direct sunlight, not sure where you are in Canada but its going to be 17-25 degrees over the next few days and it gets HOT in direct sunlight.
Wolfus_305
05-13-11, 07:56 AM
Good luck with the vet trip! I hope everything goes well, keep us updated
"Wow... I had a genuine concern about my snake's well being.... Asked a question, and look at what happened. That is really sad... The only reason that people commented on this thread is because they wanted to be a part of the drama.
"
Hey now, be nice...
Sorry for the tangent I took putting Millinex in his place. People who come out of the gate being a dik ain't cool.
You need 4000 posts here to be one.
That said, don't believe the hype about me, most of the people talking me up are on my payroll...
Anyways; as for stress, if the RI is in it's early stages (as it seems to be) the stress of the trip to the vet is greatly outweighed by the stress of death. A trip to a knowledgeable vet will get you a trans-tracheal flush and swab, a culture, and a few doses of either Baytril or Fortaz (with instructions how to do the injections safely) until the results of the culture swab comes back. You will probably have to go back to pick up the proper meds.
Follow the steps Rob laid out for transport and you'll be A okay.
Good luck and keep us posted.
TeaNinja
05-13-11, 11:33 AM
Hey now, be nice...
Sorry for the tangent I took putting Millinex in his place. People who come out of the gate being a dik ain't cool.
You need 4000 posts here to be one.
That said, don't believe the hype about me, most of the people talking me up are on my payroll...
Anyways; as for stress, if the RI is in it's early stages (as it seems to be) the stress of the trip to the vet is greatly outweighed by the stress of death. A trip to a knowledgeable vet will get you a trans-tracheal flush and swab, a culture, and a few doses of either Baytril or Fortaz (with instructions how to do the injections safely) until the results of the culture swab comes back. You will probably have to go back to pick up the proper meds.
Follow the steps Rob laid out for transport and you'll be A okay.
Good luck and keep us posted.
crap....i'm only a quarter of the way.....i guess i still have to be nice :(
Thanks everyone! I'll go on tuesday. I hope I'm just being paranoid, but I won't take the risk.
DeesBalls
05-13-11, 07:52 PM
Which are extremely worthless and just a pet store gimmick...
If you have the screen taped, it's fine, I was saying the screen itself is bad, most people use uncovered screen tops, which do NOT hold in humidity. If you try to tell me a normal screen top, unaltered will hold in humidity, I'll laugh at you.
In general, I tell people to stay away from screen tops, because in all reality- most aren't bright enough to figure out to cover it.
Try saran wrap instead, towels never did overly well for me, and absorbed more moisture than held in.
-Mike
Just want to throw in the fact i had a Brazilian Rainbow Boa in a screen lid, uncovered for ever!! and she had perfect sheds, ate fine, and never shown any problems... dont want to thread jack, start an argument, or antyhing, just wanted to point out that a screen top, just a screen top, worked for my with a high humidity snake.. all im saying...
To the poster... If it was me, i would go to the vet, just to be safe... it never hurts to check it out, and do what Lankyrob said with the pillowcase and what not.. when i take mine to the vet i put them in a critter keeper with substrate, a hide and all that.. seems to work, but only took the snake to the vet about 3 times...
i hope everything works out for ya!!
Soo Sneezy's mouth has gotten worse, and he's going to the vet on Tuesday, the earliest I could get him in. He is still eating, still active, but has been hanging out with his head up. If its a RI, why would his mouth look all dirty on the inside?
I finally got the hygrometer, and to keep it at 60%, I have to mist continuosly through out the day! The screen top is partially saran wrapped, I had wrapped it all the way around, and found Sneezy in the saran wrap lol, so now its just on the top. Any other tips? It goes down to 20-30% within a half hour of misting. I got a little fountain that I'll put in once we build his new cage, as the bottom of his tank is all cracked and I'm too paranoid to put more weight in it.
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 03:30 PM
Placing a water source over a heat source or over a lamp will increase humidity, so wil removing the screen top and putting on a solid cover (not hard to build) as long as you open it daily air shouldn't be an issue.
His water bowl is under his lamps, I have to use the lamps to keep his temps up to where they should be.
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 03:53 PM
Whats your houses ambient humidity? I'm in Canada aswell and im sitting at like 55-65% ambient. Could it be the lamp?
Yup, it IS the lamp. Lamps dry out air. It's been said a trillion times on every reptile forum known to man.
Get rid of the overhead lamp and get some underbelly heat going. That will solve one of your many issues.
Good luck.
Apparently my house is 17%! I live in southern manitoba. I turned the lamps when it got warm and then misted, but the humidity stayed at 17-20%
I'll try to do that, I got a ****** exo-terra one which I'm going to try to return and get a big zoo med UTH. I knew the lamps would be a problem but didn't know it would be this bad.
And by *** I meant sub par
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 04:35 PM
17%? that's insane for summer time, even during winter it shouldn't fall that low.
Yeah, I live in a trailer, I wonder if that has something to do with it. Just so I'm prepared, is the meds for a RI expensive? I've had so many crazy vet bills lately..
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 05:32 PM
If you catch it early you shouldn't have a problem, but didn't you know it was an RI a while ago?
I'm thinking that the early symptoms started a while ago, when I posted the gaping mouth thread
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 05:39 PM
If it went on for this long its possible that its gotten worse and will be harder to treat, get him to a vet asap and hope for the best?
Its hard to tell when it first started. He is going to the vet on tuesday, I'm going to try to get him in earlier though
The meds are cheap, it's the culture and trans-tracheal swab and wash that will be expensive.
Well the exam is $50 so that's gonna be expensive :(
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 09:23 PM
If it ends up only costing you 50$ you should be happy, could be WAY worse, even for an RI
$50 is just the exam, so everything else, and the meds is going to be so expensive gonna be going without groceries for a few weeks I guess!
stephanbakir
05-18-11, 10:37 PM
Groceries are weird, when i joined a gym a while back they gave me some tips regarding nutrition, and with 3$ a day you can eat REALLY well, and not miss out on anything you need
I'm an expert at living cheaply. My animals needs have always come before my own needs. Maybe one day I'll be able to afford both :)
stephanbakir
05-19-11, 12:26 AM
Thats a great attitude to have!
Put a fountain in his tank today, he looooves it :)
paulholcomb
05-20-11, 03:15 PM
what kind of substrate are you using?
Just thinking; maybe naming this snake "Sneezy" was jinxing him from the get-go.
His substrate is a mix of repti bark and eco earth. I'm starting to wonder if the humidity gauge is not accurate.
And I was thinking that too, lol. When I got him, he didn't have any kind of thermometer, just a small heat pad, and light hood with one bulb in it. The guy that owned him for 3-4 years didn't moniter heat, or humidity. Could all the changes I did with him have caused him to get sick?
"His substrate is a mix of repti bark and eco earth"
Bad news.
Dump it all and use paper towel or newspaper until he's better. And then for the rest of his life...
Really? I use that mixture because it holds humidity better. I had paper towel in there for a day and he spent his time tunneled under it and put it in his water bowl and somehow up his tree branch lol
xScoutx
05-21-11, 01:14 AM
First off while reading this thread, I found so much useful information I thought my head would get heavy and I'd fall over. I never would have known that screen tops are nearly useless for high-humidity snakes, and I'm glad I did! I have a Kenyan Sand Boa so, just a question to anyone with this kind of information, would I need to keep a certain humidity? She seems fine and I've tried looking it up but all sites say something different. She's native to a desert so I didn't think she'd need so much humidity... and the garters are said to have normal household humidity, all I have for them is a heat pad and it's warming their cage up to about eighty degrees. Just a question I had for anyone to answer, I figured I'd ask here than create a whole new board. x.x
Also, I'm really worried about Sneezy too. Really sorry that I don't know much, still learning myself, but I hope he gets better soon. It's good that he's really active and still eating though, I think... he sounds really cute. And him dragging a paper towel around is adorable. Really hope things go well for you!! And sorry I'm not much help here >.<
Thanks, I'll be posting on here as soon as I get back from the vet on Tuesday, I'm sure some pple are curious as to what's going on with my lil buddy Sneezy. He is eating, and super active ( playing with and wrapping around the temp probe until I had to tape it up!he likes to rearrange his tank to suit his own personal preferences :P) so I'm hoping that he'll be ok soon. He's become a part of my little family of random critters, he's so much fun.
If you look in the forum that is specifically for KSBs, there will be lots of info there, I learned the hard way to not read any random internet site about snake care, most of it is totally accurate. All you'll ever need is this forum to get all your answers :)
"I'm sure some pple are curious as to what's going on with my lil buddy Sneezy. He is eating, and super active ( playing with and wrapping around the temp probe until I had to tape it up!"
I hate to always be the one who comes in and rip apart husbandry, but moving your temp probe "up" as you say makes is almost completely inneffectual in doing it's job; hot air rises, so the temperature on your probe that is higher than ground level will most likely be higher than the temp a t ground level where your snake lives. Temps that are too low will cause a bunch of different health issues, including respiratory infections.
Lankyrob
05-21-11, 08:39 AM
Also "tape" and snakes dont mix - never put tape inside a vivarium.
I just taped the cord to the wall, as he was hanging off of it and I was worried it would break. It is at ground level. And I meant to say that its the humidity gauge probe, not temp probe, sorry for my terrible explaining skills!
Mykee, I'd rather you "rip apart husbandry" then have my snake suffer because I didn't know better! rip away, oh knowledgeable one! :)
Should I let the probe dangle then? Also, I have taped the cord for the fountain for the same reason, little bugger was all over it. Is that ok? Its been taped for a few days and its been fine. Suggestions?
stephanbakir
05-21-11, 02:13 PM
Get one of those suction cups with a hook on the end to hold it in place, works for me.
Almost every night, he rearranges his entire cage! Pushing around his hides, climbing all over and knocking down his fake plants, generally anything that can be moved, will be moved. Suction cups are not a suitable fixture for Sneezy! He's too curious. I can't see how anything but tape would work
stephanbakir
05-21-11, 02:29 PM
It could be that his hides are in the incorrect temperature zones for his liking etc, some snakes just like moving stuff around, but for the most part there is normally a reason.
That's what I thought, but when he moves the hide from his warm side, I usually find him mostly out of the hide, with his body on the spot where it was, and when I move the hide back, he always goes right in it and sleeps for the rest of the day. He usually messes around his tank more the day before feed day.
SPARTAN 77
05-21-11, 08:59 PM
I ordered a humidity gauge, it'll be here any day now. I mist lightly ever other day, and a humide hide is not being used, he's never had one.
I've had him for over a month now.
Mine has a "night light" heat lamp with a heat pad partly under his hide, i have a screen top and do have some trouble holding the humidity level, it's only a 30 gal tank so when i clean it i'll put coconut fiber beading in there, and keep it moist. I'm hoping he'll shed tonight so i can do that tomorrow or Monday.
Sooo Sneezy went to the vet today and got an exam. He does have an IR in the early stages and will be fine with the injections :) now I can sleep at night knowing that he will be ok! Thanks everyone for the support and advice, it was great to go to the vet knowing what to expect.
stephanbakir
05-24-11, 02:28 PM
RI, good luck getting it under control.
"i have a screen top and do have some trouble holding the humidity level,"
You just asked and answered your own question (and you probably didn't even know it).
"He does have an IR in the early stages and will be fine with the injections "
Did you get a culture and a trans-traceal was/swab done, or did the vet just willy nilly prescribe whatever was nearest/cheapest, had the prettiest bottle, etc.?
She did a swab, and gave me baytril to treat it. Seemed pretty thorough. I take it you've had problems with vets not bothering to find the problem?
Lankyrob
05-24-11, 05:18 PM
Until the culture has been grown and properly studied they wont know which bacteria/virus needs treating.
Baytril, i believe, is the goto treatment for any vet treating an RI even when they arent sure what they are treating. Hopefully the vet will get the culture results and let you know if Baytril is not the right thing.
Yup, exactly what Rob said.
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