What kind of snake is this

[claudester]

The other day my wife and I went to look at a old farm house that's up for sale. When we got to the basement I came across a small snake that coiled up at first and shook his little tail. The snake was about 12" long and the realtor said that last week a different realtor found two of the same in the same basement. The basement wall are all field stone with a lot of gaps where anything could crawl in. My question is, can anyone identify the snake in the pictures. I know their not the best but it was kinda dark down there. I'm just wandering if this house might be infested with snakes every year. My first thought was that it is a Eastern massasauga just from looking at a lot of pictures. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

http://images59.fotki.com/v111/photos/1/119464/2658956/P1030501-vi.jpg
http://images45.fotki.com/v153/photos/1/119464/2658956/P1030502-vi.jpg

[infernalis]

May I ask if this looks the same to you?


http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/breeding/milk.jpg

[marvelfreak]

I say hognose.

[infernalis]

Hard to tell Chuck, but I don't see a turned up snout.

[reptile65]

Definitely doesn't look like a massasauga to me. I'm leaning toward Wayne's guess.

[NennaMeerkat]

At first I thought it was a hognose as well. Had the same exact markings as my girl. However it is hard to tell on the face if it has a upturned snout or not.

If not a hoggie then most certainly what Wayne suggested it might be.

[Stormy Night]

the top two are massasauga and the bottom is a hog nose..

[Stormy Night]

i think im leaning more towards the massa

[NennaMeerkat]

Is the massa poisonous? Never even heard of them before. Their patterns and color are a lot like a hoggie.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

i think im leaning more towards the massa

Yea me to, i took into consideration also that the snake is letting them take the pictures, it looks defensive like it knows it can defend itself instead of just running away like a common non venomous snake, and it is in his region.

[Stormy Night]

yea. a massa is a rattle snake neena.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Is the massa poisonous? Never even heard of them before. Their patterns and color are a lot like a hoggie.

Some people get crazy about mixing poisonous with venomous lol, to me it doesnt matter but yea it can kill you its a Rattlesnake.

[Stormy Night]

which is baad news for pets, kids, and everyone else. They can hide under furniture or climb into bed with you because your warm :-)
catching them and moving them out would only work if you resurfaced the basement. no more stones and cracks. even then they would probably still be all over the property and in the plants. Wheres ricki ticki tavy when you need him?!

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

Now that i look at it closer i dont reall see a rattle lol? do you?

[NennaMeerkat]

I don't see a rattle either...and sorry about getting venomous and poisonous mixed up. I know the difference and usually don't make that silly mistake. If I had seen some sort of rattle I would have known Massa meant rattlesnake.

[Coffee Black]

Have it professionally removed. Not by a pest control chump. Call a local college.

[reptile65]

It definitely doesn't seem to have a rattle. Also doesn't appear to have a turned up nose. I'm really thinking it's a milksnake, the colors are probably just off because of the lighting and such.

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

and sorry about getting venomous and poisonous mixed up. I know the difference and usually don't make that silly mistake. I.

Dont apologize to me lol Im not the kind of person that will jump on someone for a simple mistake. Especially when the words mean almost the same thing lol we would still get the idea it can kill someone hahah.


@coffee Black i agree definitely call a local college.

[Stormy Night]

young ones have tiny tiny rattles. as they grow larger so does their rattles. ans he did say the other realestate guy found two small ones.

[Stormy Night]

and THIS is a milk snake

[KD35WIN.AS.ONE]

and THIS is a milk snake

Doesn't look like one ive ever seen, but i guess they vary region to region. In the OP picture, the head looks like one of a colubrid, so im going to switch my pick to the Milk snake lol.

[Stormy Night]

there is darkness at the tip of its tail but its to hard to see if its a spot of a rattle

[Max713]

I was going to say Bull Snake.

[sickvenom]

the pattern just screams 'massassuagua.' but the lack of rattles or even a 'button' on the tail is confusing. need a better photo.

[reptile65]

Doesn't look like one ive ever seen, but i guess they vary region to region. In the OP picture, the head looks like one of a colubrid, so im going to switch my pick to the Milk snake lol.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The head shape just doesn't look right to be a venomous snake.

[Stormy Night]

heres a bull snake. i am picking the images that look clossest to the OP picture. its close but bulls might have a few more spots.

[sickvenom]

heres a bull snake. i am picking the images that look clossest to the OP picture. its close but bulls might have a few more spots.

not a bull snake. i guess it could be a neonate mass.

[Stormy Night]

i agree venom. It still looks like a massa to me to, but its impossible to say with the current picture. The described landscape souns like rattlesnake utopia.

[claudester]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to try and get in that house again and see if I can find another one to get a picture of.

Thanks again

[Stormy Night]

NP. That was fun :-)

[stephanbakir]

I've caught a few Massasaugas in the past and i gota say the colours on that guy really do scream massasauga. That being said they all have one thing in common and that's the arrowhead shaped head which i don't think this one has although the picture isn't taken from the right angle to be 100% sure.

[claudester]

O.K. Here are some clearer pics of the snake. The realtor had taken some pictures also.

http://images23.fotki.com/v807/photos/1/119464/2658956/snakea-vi.jpg

http://images55.fotki.com/v608/photos/1/119464/2658956/snakebn-vi.jpg

[NennaMeerkat]

Yeah that certainly isn't a rattlesnake. That head doesn't look near "triangle" enough to be a rattler. Probably some type of rat snake or as someone else said bull snake. -shrug- I just know that the head doesn't look triangular enough like a lot of poisonous snakes have.

[Little Wise Owl]

Eastern Milk Snake or Bull Snake or Fox Snake. lol


eastern milk snake - Google Search (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&xhr=t&q=eastern+milk+snake&cp=11&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=667)

Fox Snake
fox snake - Google Search (http://www.google.ca/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=fox+snake&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=)

Bull Snake
Trout Caviar: Snakes Alive (http://troutcaviar.blogspot.com/2009/08/snakes-alive.html)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SDviyVSoCkk/SoLSy660vXI/AAAAAAAABVY/0vhQDkQnyTU/s400/crop.jpg


Eastern Milk Snake
http://www.ontariowildflower.com/images/snake_eastern_fox_snake_head.jpg
Source: Andy's Northern Ontario Wildflowers, Burwash Reptiles (http://www.ontariowildflower.com/wildlife_reptile.htm)

[Stormy Night]

awesome! mystery solved. At least its not a rattle snake!

[belovedboas]

not a massa, I have seen many of them and even a young one would have a bit of a "button" like venom said on it's tail.........I'm pushing towards a small milk or going by the look of it's head a small pine:):)

[sickvenom]

y'know, it could be a natural occurring morph of some sort.

[Little Wise Owl]

I thought of that but it looks almost identical to this supposed "Bull Snake" snake:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SDviyVSoCkk/SoLSy660vXI/AAAAAAAABVY/0vhQDkQnyTU/s400/crop.jpg

[sickvenom]

I thought of that but it looks almost identical to this supposed "Bull Snake" snake:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SDviyVSoCkk/SoLSy660vXI/AAAAAAAABVY/0vhQDkQnyTU/s400/crop.jpg

pattern looks way too 'clean' for a bull. i wonder if the author mis-id'd it? looks like a corn morph to me.

[Little Wise Owl]

Most likely but at least we know for sure it's not a Rattler.