put a snake in a bag and bury it in sand

[sickvenom]

I have deleted the content of this post... it contained personal information and slander, as well as it instructed others to behave the same way... it's gone now.

[stephanbakir]

Why didn't I think of that method of feeding snakes! Would help when I have squeamish people around. (God that's a terrible idea)

[Stormy Night]

I have deleted the content of this post... it contained personal information and slander, as well as it instructed others to behave the same way... it's gone now.

[TeaNinja]

good job, you scared another idiot from gaining proper knowledge instead of providing it.

/fail

if you know so much about KSB's why don't you be a decent human for once and try to explain to her why she's being a moron, although i'm sure you took her down a few pegs.

[mykee]

That's an acceptable method for feeding off-feed sand boas BTW...

[TeaNinja]

plus i don't know if you're allowed to post some random girls name, number and email for other internet users to send hate mail to.

[Stormy Night]

That is a very good point.
Haveing never owned a sand boa I can only say I would think there would be other alternative ways of feeding one. Maybe pinky in a bag minus the burying part. a dark shoe box with a warm pinky inside...I don't get the "bury it in the sand's bit.

[mistersprinkles]

You guys have no idea. I used to work in a pet shop. A guy came in with diagrams of his idea to build a floating styrofoam island for his hamster on his aquarium (hamsters are from the desert and have a tendancy to sink) to discuss the fiesability of said idea.

I have never had to force myself not to laugh so hard in my life. After he left I almost threw up from laughing so hard. Nobody believed me.

There are more... but burying a sand boa in sand is at the very low end of the insanity spectrum compared to some of what I've heard. Definitely a doorknob and good for you for letting her know... but I've heard worse :).

[RandyRhoads]

I don't know anything about KSBs but this sounds ok to me. Unless I read it wrong. She's not talking about burring the bag containing the snake right, just burring the pinky in a bag of sand with the snake?

[mistersprinkles]

good job, you scared another idiot from gaining proper knowledge instead of providing it.


Most people need to be scared away from proper knowledge. Why are Apple products so popular? People are too stupid to use a PC :yes:.

About 80% of the people who have any kind of pet are too stupid to have that pet. If they can be convinced, via whatever means, including calling them stupid, to pursue something more up their alley, like playing solitaire, I say do it. :freakedout:

Randy-

I read that she takes snake and mouse, inserts in bag, takes bag, inserts in sand and buries. So... potential lack of oxygen, and brain cells.

Sickvenom, I like you. If we lived close to each other we could grab a beer and discuss our experience with the pet ig'nants. :)

[Stormy Night]

@Randy
As sprinkles stated, My gist of it is that she's putting a pinky and a snake in a bag...digging a hole....and burying the bag under the sand.

[RandyRhoads]

Jesus.....wtf...

[Xochiquetzal]

Well i have heard that a finicky snake will often eat from a brown paper bag , and i have used that method myself , but i truly dont get what shes doing burying it under the sand?

[Little Wise Owl]

I think there's a little bit of overreacting here... The method doesn't sound horrible and I doubt she's burying the snake under massive mounds of sand.

Also, there's too little information provided to judge so harshly...

[mykee]

Am I the only one here who is aware that sand boas spend 99% of their lives buried in sand?

[stephanbakir]

I am aware, but wont being stuck in a confined space buried in the sand stress them out?

[Stormy Night]

Yea...they put the sand in sand boa. But not in a sandless cloth bag burried underneath sand...I wouldn't think.

[sickvenom]

Am I the only one here who is aware that sand boas spend 99% of their lives buried in sand?

But not tied up in a bag and then buried in sand. Her method was to drop the pinkie in the cage and wait for the snake to come get it. If the snake didn't get it right away, she would tied both in a bag and then burry it. It never occured to her to try teasing the snake, before taking such drastic measures.

[Little Wise Owl]

Did she tell you that or are you just gathering that from the ad?

Sorry, I just don't think it's a big deal... Clearly the snake doesn't feel stressed when it's in the bag, in the sand since it always eats while it's in there.

[reptile65]

I'm really disappointed at how judgemental people seem to be on this forum. I'm sure none of you guys have ever made a mistake and are the almighty gods of snake-keeping.

[NennaMeerkat]

I'm really disappointed at how judgemental people seem to be on this forum. I'm sure none of you guys have ever made a mistake and are the almighty gods of snake-keeping.

I agree with ya there reptile. And as someone else said...the snake can't be to stressed if it is eating in the bag "apparently" covered with sand. Though I still think it is a poorly worded sentence.

[RandyRhoads]

Am I the only one here who is aware that sand boas spend 99% of their lives buried in sand?


No. Everyone thinks she means putting the snake in a bag and shoveling sand on the bag untill it's burried.

[Shmoges]

LOL that hadn't occured to me lol! putting the sand "IN" the bag with them lol! I prefer to put mine in a very small plastic container and if for over night i do set it in the substrate in there enclosure for warmth. I would think asphyxiation and the bag getting caught in there mouth would be too great a risk with her method.

[NennaMeerkat]

I have heard of people putting their snakes in a pillow case or "reptile bag" for them to eat and it apparently works for some snakes without a problem. I would assume you turn anything inside out so there are no threads or seams to worry about.

[Little Wise Owl]

http://bsaidso.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/facepalm_picard2.jpg?w=360&h=240

I'm really disappointed at how judgemental people seem to be on this forum. I'm sure none of you guys have ever made a mistake and are the almighty gods of snake-keeping.

Same... I really started off liking this forum because there are some pretty cool people on here but then there's stuff like this...

[Shmoges]

Everyone isn't mean, don't leaves!

[NennaMeerkat]

http://bsaidso.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/facepalm_picard2.jpg?w=360&h=240



Same... I really started off liking this forum because there are some pretty cool people on here but then there's stuff like this...

Always did love Picards epic face plant.

All the same not all of us are overly critical...its a "phase" the forum is going through. Just ride the wave and wait for it to pass. Everything will be back to normal soon enough.

[marvelfreak]

LOL that hadn't occured to me lol! putting the sand "IN" the bag with them lol! I prefer to put mine in a very small plastic container and if for over night i do set it in the substrate in there enclosure for warmth. I would think asphyxiation and the bag getting caught in there mouth would be too great a risk with her method.
Ding, Ding we have a winner.:)

[Little Wise Owl]

For a snake that spends 99% of its time buried under what could be very heavy sand, asphyxiation doesn't seem like it'd be that likely.

What about when snakes are shipped in pillowcases/containers, inside packing peanuts, an insulating box and then the containing box...? Here's the method on shipping snakes: All Boas - Packing & Shipping Methods Explained (http://www.allboas.com/methods.php)

[marvelfreak]

For a snake that spends 99% of its time buried under what could be very heavy sand, asphyxiation doesn't seem like it'd be that likely.

What about when snakes are shipped in pillowcases/containers, inside packing peanuts, an insulating box and then the containing box...?


The problem is when food is present snakes don't use their brain. Feeding in a paper sack or bag one thing, but a cloth bag can be deadly. I actually almost kill my big jungle with a pillow case. I was cleaning her cage and figure i throw the rat in the pillow case i had put her in while i cleaned. She wrapped around the rat and twisted the pillow case around her neck and was chocking herself. Then when i got it of around her neck she starts eating the rat and pillow case. I had to grab her by the neck slowly open her mouth and remove the rat and pillow case. Very stress full for her and me.

And when it seem like some of this people on here are being harsh it's because they don't want to see others make stupid mistake that could cost a animal their live. When i first got into snake 18 years ago i didn't have the world wide web to find information on i had to read what few books there were and learn by trial and error. Starting out way to many snake suffered because i didn't know what i was doing and a lot of the info i had at that time was wrong. That's why we are here, because we care about how people treat their pets and want to help. Even if some don't have the best bedside manners their hearts in the right place.

[NennaMeerkat]

And when it seem like some of this people on here are being harsh it's because they don't want to see others make stupid mistake that could cost a animal their live. When i first got into snake 18 years ago i didn't have the world wide web to find information on i had to read what few books there were and learn by trial and error. Starting out way to many snake suffered because i didn't know what i was doing and a lot of the info i had at that time was wrong. That's why we are here, because we care about how people treat their pets and want to help. Even if some don't have the best bedside manners their hearts in the right place.

They can be as harsh as they want I suppose but they need to back up their harsh statements with hard facts and/or hands on knowledge for what they are saying. Then at least their credibility on the subject is founded and not them just being rude.

You provided hands on experience that if they had supplied in the first place then perhaps others would not think them simply being rude for rudeness sake.

This being said I understand now the difference between being shipped in a sack and feeding in one. But I have heard of many people feeding their snakes in pillow cases put inside out. I wouldn't do it but apparently it is a practice that has *some* substance to it.

[Stormy Night]

here we go. i did reserch...took me all of 8.5 seconds.
" You should never feed in the cage, as ingested substrate can cause death. Sand boas, being mostly nocturnal, feed best at night. I feed in a cloth snake bag, which can be placed in the cage for warmth and safety. To thaw a frozen mouse place it in a cup of hot tap water for 10-20 minutes until it is thoroughly thawed and warm. My sand boas don't seem to care if their mice are wet, but you can thaw them in a sealed plastic bag, or skip the water altogether and wrap them in a heating pad. Microwaving is hard to control, and an exploded mouse isn't much fun to clean up. Place the warm mouse in the snake bag, wash your hands so you don't smell like a mouse, add the sand boa, and leave it undisturbed inside the snake's cage for a couple of hours. For picky eaters I put a folded towel on top or bury the bag in the substrate, only leaving a couple of square inches exposed for air exchange. They seem to like the weight on top of them. If the mouse is still there when you check you can leave it overnight. Instead of using a snake bag you can place the mouse and snake in a deli cup, but sand boas seem to feel more secure with the feeling of the bag over them and usually eat more readily. "

Melissa Kaplan's
Herp Care Collection
Last updated December 18, 2009

Kenyan (East African) Sand Boas
Eryx colubrinus

©1997 Denise Loving

[NennaMeerkat]

So then it seems for sand boas feeding IN the bag AND buried is okay...interesting indeed.

[RandyRhoads]

Looks like alot of people should be putting their foot in their mouth about now eh.....

[sickvenom]

No. Everyone thinks she means putting the snake in a bag and shoveling sand on the bag untill it's burried.

That's exactly what this nut case is doing!!!

[NennaMeerkat]

Looks like alot of people should be putting their foot in their mouth about now eh.....

You ain't kidding Randy LOL

[sickvenom]

here we go. i did reserch...took me all of 8.5 seconds.
" You should never feed in the cage, as ingested substrate can cause death. Sand boas, being mostly nocturnal, feed best at night. I feed in a cloth snake bag, which can be placed in the cage for warmth and safety. To thaw a frozen mouse place it in a cup of hot tap water for 10-20 minutes until it is thoroughly thawed and warm. My sand boas don't seem to care if their mice are wet, but you can thaw them in a sealed plastic bag, or skip the water altogether and wrap them in a heating pad. Microwaving is hard to control, and an exploded mouse isn't much fun to clean up. Place the warm mouse in the snake bag, wash your hands so you don't smell like a mouse, add the sand boa, and leave it undisturbed inside the snake's cage for a couple of hours. For picky eaters I put a folded towel on top or bury the bag in the substrate, only leaving a couple of square inches exposed for air exchange. They seem to like the weight on top of them. If the mouse is still there when you check you can leave it overnight. Instead of using a snake bag you can place the mouse and snake in a deli cup, but sand boas seem to feel more secure with the feeling of the bag over them and usually eat more readily. "

Melissa Kaplan's
Herp Care Collection
Last updated December 18, 2009

Kenyan (East African) Sand Boas
Eryx colubrinus

©1997 Denise Loving

This is one person's experience, who obviously isn't thinking about safety. It may work for her, but is the risk worth it? No. She shouldn't be allowed to keep snakes.

Also, let's keep on topic here. This is about snake husbandry. All other talk about poor little feelings getting hurt should made in the general topic forum. Thanks.

[Little Wise Owl]

That's exactly what this nut case is doing!!!


You know if that was me making the mistake, I'd probably not enjoy being called a nut-case...

Also, I believe Melissa Kaplan runs Anapsid.org...

[sickvenom]

So then it seems for sand boas feeding IN the bag AND buried is okay...interesting indeed.

No, it doesn't seem like that at all. Lol.

[NennaMeerkat]

This is one person's experience, who obviously isn't thinking about safety. It may work for her, but is the risk worth it? No. She shouldn't be allowed to keep snakes.

Also, let's keep on topic here. This is about snake husbandry. All other talk about poor little feelings getting hurt should made in the general topic forum. Thanks.

Just admit is Sick on this one topic you got proved wrong! It happens to the best and worst of us. I am sure if any of us did a search we could find other people doing the same thing. And that person was staying on topic...she/he showed what you were saying was wrong...isn't wrong.

[Stormy Night]

Actually. This thread sparked my curiosity. It sounded crazy. Who in the hell would burry something in the dirt?...I hate not knowing things. So i didnt look at just her site. I look at many. I just happened to choose her post to copy because it read better than the others. shes part of kingsnake.com and anapsid.org .I was totally calling bull ****..poop to.

[reptile65]

This is one person's experience, who obviously isn't thinking about safety. It may work for her, but is the risk worth it? No. She shouldn't be allowed to keep snakes.

Also, let's keep on topic here. This is about snake husbandry. All other talk about poor little feelings getting hurt should made in the general topic forum. Thanks.


Just for the record, I never said anything about having my feelings hurt. I'm just saying that I'm disappointed to see people passing harsh judgement on somebody they've never even met. We all make mistakes, so who are we to judge someone who doesn't keep their snakes in the exact way we think is "correct"? We all had to start somewhere...

It doesn't appear that this person is an idiot who didn't do any research on her snake. She more than likely found the same care sheet that Stormy Night posted, which, by the way is a very respected reptile keeper's site.

It's one thing to recommend proper care to someone, but to say "what the 'f' is wrong with some people" and call them stupid when you don't even know the whole story, is crossing the line, IMO.

[Little Wise Owl]

Reptile65, my thoughts exactly.

[mykee]

LOL!!!!
OMG!!!!
Melissa Kaplan is the face of death.
She is such a joke in the reptile community it's not even funny (no pun intended).
EVERYTHING she says should be taken with a HUUUUGE grain of salt and then entirely ignored and the opposite done.
She's your punishment for doing only 8.5 seconds of research.

[Stormy Night]

not MY punishment. i dont have KSBs. As i also stated "i found info in 8.5 seconds".... then i spent the next 20 minutes reading the same thing from other sites and other ppl before posting anything.

[NennaMeerkat]

not MY punishment. i dont have KSBs. As i also stated "i found info in 8.5 seconds".... then i spent the next 20 minutes reading the same thing from other sites and other ppl before posting anything.

Have to agree I spent a good bit doing the same thing since others had said that the information wasn't worth going off of. Found other sites saying the exact same thing.

[Stormy Night]

a majority says to put them in a tupper ware style dish with a lid and a towel over it. but others mentioned that if it doesnt work to go the sand bag route. granted that doesnt mean you put a snake in a bag at the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket and fill it..but weight on top of them is ok.
Again, im not speaking from expierience but just read "facts" i cant swear on.

[NennaMeerkat]

a majority says to put them in a tupper ware style dish with a lid and a towel over it. but others mentioned that if it doesnt work to go the sand bag route. granted that doesnt mean you put a snake in a bag at the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket and fill it..but weight on top of them is ok.
Again, im not speaking from expierience but just read "facts" i cant swear on.

And the original ad did not say how shallow or deep she buries the bag either...simply that she follows the technique. I am sure that she didn't feel like going through the entire thing on a craigslist ad. If you called her or emailed her and asked for details (without calling her stupid and whatnot in the process) I am sure she would be more willing to talk details.

[red ink]

This is the danger of commenting on people's husbandry practices on forums (unless specifically asked).... Something I refrain from doing (most of the time)

It's also not a good idea to make genaralised comments on forums about species you don't have experience with (I'm no't having a go at the posters here)

The plural of internet anecdotes isn't "facts" :elvis:

[dshin963]

http://bsaidso.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/facepalm_picard2.jpg?w=360&h=240



Same... I really started off liking this forum because there are some pretty cool people on here but then there's stuff like this...

*Facepalm*... And here we go again...
I wish I found this place years ago when the air from what I hear was clear...

[NennaMeerkat]

*Facepalm*... And here we go again...
I wish I found this place years ago when the air from what I hear was clear...

I think it will be better eventually...sort of a phase the site is going through. I think it will go away eventually. Take it with a grain of salt and move on. Ignore the harsh individuals and pay attention to those that seem to be a bit more on your own level...so to speak.

[dshin963]

I think it will be better eventually...sort of a phase the site is going through. I think it will go away eventually. Take it with a grain of salt and move on. Ignore the harsh individuals and pay attention to those that seem to be a bit more on your own level...so to speak.

Trying to... we will see... hope there will still be people left after this...

[NennaMeerkat]

Trying to... we will see... hope there will still be people left after this...

Have a little faith hun those that count will be here.

[Stormy Night]

red. your having a go at posters on here...your comment is like saying " no offence..but your an A hole" there is an offence even if you say there isnt. anyway. as i stated. i did research no one was willing to do to stop the uninformed bickering. no where did i state this is the practice to follow. just what i found. i said over and over i havent had the KSB expierence yet. Also "not making comments about others husbandry", someone could be making a fatal mistake with their animal and you dont have the confidence in what you do to out right say " no thats wrong." so if i told you i keep my BPs in the oven when its cold outside you woulnt tell me im wrong?
And with that im done. i showed my dug up information and i have nothing left to say.

[dshin963]

Have a little faith hun those that count will be here.

Yea lol I have as much faith as Lucifer did just before he fell... (haha irony! I mentioned Luke)

[Freebody]

i think this is a great thing, 10 min ago i knew nothing about sand boas, and read the first post and thought right away, WTF! who would do this, after finishing the thread, i find it facinating this practise could be used for this species, very cool indeed, im asuming as i have not yet looked into this further on my own, the sand shes putting ontop on the bag, with the snake and rat in it, is a small amount, with the purpose of making it feel mor secure? being how this snake prefers being burried. all the bickering back and forth, i think is a good thing, it provides a good reason for people to research more, ie prove or humble the argument :P and sheds light on more topics, which people love drama, look how big of a deal the little differences is poping up in this forum these days, lets face it, we are all hear to help the reptile, not help the owner<< helping the owner is a biproduct of helping the snake. all i mean is, if im doing somthing stupid, and someone says, hey stupid dont do that do this, well i would feel better with a more polite method, but my snake will only know that i have made changes for him/her for the better, which is the reason the OP is coming on here day after day, to help the worlds repiles and not to make me have happy feelings :)

[red ink]

red...... Also "not making comments about others husbandry", someone could be making a fatal mistake with their animal and you dont have the confidence in what you do to out right say " no thats wrong." I have the confidence to say what's wrong if I was asked what I lack is the "nerve" to tell somebody or butt into something that does not concern me so if i told you i keep my BPs in the oven when its cold outside you woulnt tell me im wrong? NO as I akin that to somebody telling you how to raise your child.... Not my concern (as harsh as that sounds). If you asked me if that was a good idea I would say NO
And with that im done. i showed my dug up information and i have nothing left to say.

I understand what you are saying about the comments and I apologise that I have offended you.

I have plenty of confidence in my husbandry skills concerning reptiles. I have been doing this for a very long time now...

One thing I will stand by though is...
The plural of internet anecdotes isn't facts...

Here's a good example of what I mean. Take basic bearded dragon husbandry.... I have kept these species for well over 15 years now both P. barbata and P. vitticeps. If you hit google with "substrate" for BDs what you will get are a ton load of caresheets. Most I would say 90% will say use tile as particle substrate can cause impaction. Tile is the safest substrate and it's natural for them. Now like I have stated you will get this 90% of the time... I can tell you now that the only place tile is natural and endemic in Australia is in bathrooms so how can tiles be natural for a BD??

[sickvenom]

time for a quick history lesson before things get out of hand.

10-15 years ago, the whole 'snake in a bag' trick was pretty popular. people had snakes that weren't eating and someone thought that if you put the snake and the rodent in close proximity to each other, the chances of success were greater. well, it did work kinda. and it still can work. the problem is, a lot of health risks were discovered. snakes were getting tangled inside the bag, people were using bags that couldn't breathe well, yes some people tried PLASTIC bags. other geniuses used live prey. so yes, it can work but the risks are far too many. snakes were dying all the time. it is considered a very out-dated method and one that is generally frowned upon in the industry. besides, if you have to go through all the trouble, then you are doing something very wrong to begin with!

hope that cleared things up a bit. wasn't trying to be SHORT or BLUNT or MEAN earlier. i just didn't want to type all that out on my phone.

[Stormy Night]

ink, you absolutly did not offend me. Im a very hard person to offend ( dont try venom...ill cut you man). I just happened to like to debate. Im not out to force ppl to believe what i believe. ive seen numerous animals abused mostly out of pure lack of knowledge and general lack of common sence. So i feel the need to point out to ppl in the most considerate way possible that they may want to choose alternate ways to do something, just because ive seen alot of stuff and know. I rarely if ever speak out on something i have zero knowledge on. On this post i just posted dug up crap. I also agree that the internet is eyeball deep in bull shyt. It becomes an all day affair to actually learn something without a doubt.

[sassy_snake_lady]

About 80% of the people who have any kind of pet are too stupid to have that pet. If they can be convinced, via whatever means, including calling them stupid, to pursue something more up their alley, like playing solitaire, I say do it. :freakedout:



Hooray! Well said :yes:

[sassy_snake_lady]

They can be as harsh as they want I suppose but they need to back up their harsh statements with hard facts and/or hands on knowledge for what they are saying. Then at least their credibility on the subject is founded and not them just being rude.

You provided hands on experience that if they had supplied in the first place then perhaps others would not think them simply being rude for rudeness sake.


I notice you keep on about this lately, but what are people meant to do if the stupid person owning the animal, wont listen? At what stage do you just give up and let them find out the hard way?

I have given up after 3 months. That's it now. There is only so much information and experienced knowledge you can pass on to someone who is determind to do things their own way no matter what because they THINK they know best.

[Max713]

Trying to... we will see... hope there will still be people left after this...
Have a little faith hun those that count will be here.
We've already lost one of the most reputable, and helpful members of the site due to the new way of things... I wouldn't necessarily count on anything.

i think this is a great thing, 10 min ago i knew nothing about sand boas, and read the first post and thought right away, WTF! who would do this, after finishing the thread, i find it facinating this practise could be used for this species, very cool indeed, im asuming as i have not yet looked into this further on my own, the sand shes putting ontop on the bag, with the snake and rat in it, is a small amount, with the purpose of making it feel mor secure? being how this snake prefers being burried. all the bickering back and forth, i think is a good thing, it provides a good reason for people to research more, ie prove or humble the argument :P and sheds light on more topics, which people love drama, look how big of a deal the little differences is poping up in this forum these days, lets face it, we are all hear to help the reptile, not help the owner<< helping the owner is a biproduct of helping the snake. all i mean is, if im doing somthing stupid, and someone says, hey stupid dont do that do this, well i would feel better with a more polite method, but my snake will only know that i have made changes for him/her for the better, which is the reason the OP is coming on here day after day, to help the worlds repiles and not to make me have happy feelings :)
I completely agree, to a certain point.
On the other hand, new forum goers for the most part are very wary of being torn to shreds by more experienced, or more active forum goers. When they search "sand boa" and come across this thread, I GUARANTEE they will be hesitant to join.
I could really give two shits about your intentions if your attitude doesn't support them. I love this forum, and it would take a lot for me to leave, but it is going to have a really hard time progressing and growing, with conversations like these.

Was planning to stay out of this one, like the several other heated threads over the course of the past few weeks...

[NennaMeerkat]

I notice you keep on about this lately, but what are people meant to do if the stupid person owning the animal, wont listen? At what stage do you just give up and let them find out the hard way?

I have given up after 3 months. That's it now. There is only so much information and experienced knowledge you can pass on to someone who is determind to do things their own way no matter what because they THINK they know best.

If they will not listen with patience and plain speech to experience and hard facts then what makes you think they will listen when you curse at them and call them stupid? If a person isn't going to listen...they just aren't going to listen. Why not look like someone with knowledge that you know you have rather than just another jackass out to criticize someone.

I am not against harsh words but honestly more than a few people around here come off REALLY strong and very rarely produce anything to back up their opinion. If you got the facts to back up your jack-assery then please put it up. If you are to lazy to post up said facts then you should be to lazy to be harsh about telling them off.

There is a saying...something about rocks...and water...and moss? Whatever the case I think you get what I am saying?

[sassy_snake_lady]

If they will not listen with patience and plain speech to experience and hard facts then what makes you think they will listen when you curse at them and call them stupid? If a person isn't going to listen...they just aren't going to listen. Why not look like someone with knowledge that you know you have rather than just another jackass out to criticize someone.

I am not against harsh words but honestly more than a few people around here come off REALLY strong and very rarely produce anything to back up their opinion. If you got the facts to back up your jack-assery then please put it up. If you are to lazy to post up said facts then you should be to lazy to be harsh about telling them off.

There is a saying...something about rocks...and water...and moss? Whatever the case I think you get what I am saying?

Missed the point there slightly. I'm not talking about slightly harsh posts on a forum! I am talking about in depth, one to one converstaions with a person. One to one chats with various different experienced keepers and breeders. Converstaions in a polite, manor, helpful advice given, all ignored? Then what?

You know how I feel about this, if you don't like what I post, as someone before has suggested, just hit the ignore button.

[NennaMeerkat]

Missed the point there slightly. I'm not talking about slightly harsh posts on a forum! I am talking about in depth, one to one converstaions with a person. One to one chats with various different experienced keepers and breeders. Converstaions in a polite, manor, helpful advice given, all ignored? Then what?

You know how I feel about this, if you don't like what I post, as someone before has suggested, just hit the ignore button.

Oh well I personally find that if people don't listen to me I just walk away, even in mid conversation. Same thing I do on here. I talk on here the way I talk in real life. So if someone doesn't take my advice I shrug my shoulders and move on. Its just not worth the breath (or keystroke).

And yeah I know how you feel on posting on here...TBH I never really had any problem with anything you have said. Don't have a real problem with anyone. I just ignore and move on...same as I would do if you said something I didn't like in real life.

About the only thing different I might do is tell you why I am leaving in mid conversation, but arguing is something I don't like/want to do.

[sassy_snake_lady]

Oh well I personally find that if people don't listen to me I just walk away, even in mid conversation. Same thing I do on here. I talk on here the way I talk in real life. So if someone doesn't take my advice I shrug my shoulders and move on. Its just not worth the breath (or keystroke).

And yeah I know how you feel on posting on here...TBH I never really had any problem with anything you have said. Don't have a real problem with anyone. I just ignore and move on...same as I would do if you said something I didn't like in real life.

About the only thing different I might do is tell you why I am leaving in mid conversation, but arguing is something I don't like/want to do.

That is my biggest problem, I do find it hard to just shrug and walk away. I shall try though, agreed it is a waste of effort in the end. Is hard when animals are involved though as it's usually them that suffer :mad:

[NennaMeerkat]

That is my biggest problem, I do find it hard to just shrug and walk away. I shall try though, agreed it is a waste of effort in the end. Is hard when animals are involved though as it's usually them that suffer :mad:

I know I know. I used to rescue rats for the express reason that I would see people mistreating them with inappropriate housing, food,ect. Would end up paying much money than a rat is worth to get them away from their bad situation.

Sometimes you just have to realize you can't save everything and if people are going to be hardheaded about things you really just have to be a little cold hearted...in a way...and move on. Hope for the best. Stressing yourself just won't do any good for anyone, especially yourself.

And sorry if some of this seems jumbled in general. Its early morning and I haven't slept yet.

[TeaNinja]

I know I know. I used to rescue rats for the express reason that I would see people mistreating them with inappropriate housing, food,ect. Would end up paying much money than a rat is worth to get them away from their bad situation.

Sometimes you just have to realize you can't save everything and if people are going to be hardheaded about things you really just have to be a little cold hearted...in a way...and move on. Hope for the best. Stressing yourself just won't do any good for anyone, especially yourself.

And sorry if some of this seems jumbled in general. Its early morning and I haven't slept yet.

god...i think i love you...lol xD
that's the story of my life.

[NennaMeerkat]

god...i think i love you...lol xD
that's the story of my life.

No wonder we get along LOL I just decided to stay up until my son goes to school then I will crash on the couch until he (or my husband) gets home. I hardly ever find myself sleeping at night anymore.

[TeaNinja]

america is not a night owls place to be. i often find myself STRUGGLING to function as a proper human being in the mornings lol.

[NennaMeerkat]

america is not a night owls place to be. i often find myself STRUGGLING to function as a proper human being in the mornings lol.

Well when you are a "seasoned" house wife you learn to get things done in between tons of naps ;)

[TeaNinja]

somehow i never see myself being a seasoned housewife.......but you never know ;)
i definetly want to know how to cook like a seasoned housewife.

lol

[NennaMeerkat]

somehow i never see myself being a seasoned housewife.......but you never know ;)

lol


LOL Things are always x2 funny when they are tired.

[ilovemypets1988]

this is my honest opinion!

as it is clearly to dangerous to feed directly on sand due to impaction and the fact that a sand boa (i presume) like to be buried in sand, wouldnt there natural behaviour be to find a rock and bury themsleves in it to eat, so in fact using a bag would kind of be matching there natural behaviour, yh i agree, tying it is wrong as the animal should have the right to be able to escape, but never the less, sand boas or any burrowing snake would feel alot more comfortable having the weight of the substrate ontop of them and therefore more inclined to eat.

your all saying to think of the animal well it comes across to me that infact they are!

[infernalis]

No wonder we get along LOL I just decided to stay up until my son goes to school then I will crash on the couch until he (or my husband) gets home. I hardly ever find myself sleeping at night anymore.


I often go to sleep around 3:00 am sometimes as late as dawn, sleep 2 hours and get back up, pass out in the afternoon for a few hours, and take a wee nap just after dinner.

Dorothy is on a "different cycle" she often arises at 10:00 am or as late as noon, so at night there is always someone awake.

It comes in handy at times, imagine the looks we get when I run out of the house at 2:30 and confront insomniac teens wandering through my property at any given hour.

One night three boys were walking toward my barn, I scared those punks so bad, they never even walk this far up the road anymore.. and the beautiful part is all they talked about for weeks after that was "do not go there, they are crazy and will try to kill you"

People may think that a dozen teens drinking around a campfire does not warrant a "brute force" intervention, but when those same teens are breaking glass bottles and throwing them in the creek while burning your construction lumber for firewood, I say brute force is the only way to confront them.

[sickvenom]

this is my honest opinion!

as it is clearly to dangerous to feed directly on sand due to impaction and the fact that a sand boa (i presume) like to be buried in sand, wouldnt there natural behaviour be to find a rock and bury themsleves in it to eat, so in fact using a bag would kind of be matching there natural behaviour, yh i agree, tying it is wrong as the animal should have the right to be able to escape, but never the less, sand boas or any burrowing snake would feel alot more comfortable having the weight of the substrate ontop of them and therefore more inclined to eat.

your all saying to think of the animal well it comes across to me that infact they are!

They burrow in sand. They don't eat while burried in sand. Lol.....

[Lankyrob]

Our back garden and side of the house was used as a cut through for years before we moved in - there was a noticable track across the grass. My wife is also not well (been years and years :( ) and didnt like the idea of people being so close to the house at night so.........

On the back corner of our house is a door opening into the back garden and halfway along the side of the house is another door. One night i stayed up late and when the kids were about due to come through i turned off all the lights in the house and stood in the kitchen waiting. As they got to the corner of the house i turned on all the lights, let the dog out the back door and stepped out of the side door with a baseball bat in one hand and a butchers cleave in the other - i never said a word but am pretty sure that their feet barely touched the ground as they turned and fled with the dog chasing them and barking - its strange but to my knowledge noone has ever cut through the garden again ;)

[infernalis]

Something ominous about a huge guy with medieval weapons Rob..

[mistersprinkles]

Am I the only one here who is aware that sand boas spend 99% of their lives buried in sand?

They do, but they position their nostrils in a way that there is only a few mm of sand between them and the surface. You can move air easily through a very fine layer of sand. Once you have a layer of cloth and an uncontrolled volume of sand above that, you get into a potentially very dangerous situation. The snake needs to be able to control it's access to air.

When you set up an aquarium with sand, you have to be very aware of the thickness of the sandbed if you want to prevent an 'anaerobic'/oxygen free layer. You can actually see the sand past about 1/2" deep begin to turn black after a while.

[infernalis]

Not to mention the panic factor.

I can drink carbonated beverages from a bottle while at the bottom of a swimming pool, but I doubt that would work out if you tied me to a boat anchor first..

[Damion930]

My sand boa has about 2-3 inches of sand and eco earth and is only about 11inches long still quite slender and is mostly found as deep as she can get on the bottom of her enclosure. As long as the bag is breathable and they arnt going to get tangled or snaged on it and try to eat it seeing that sand boas are said to feel more secure with the weight of the substrate on them I don't see how this is so wrong. Glad so far my lil gaia eats without hesitation.

[Damion930]

Not to mention most snakes can go quite sometime without breathing.

[belovedboas]

http://bsaidso.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/facepalm_picard2.jpg?w=360&h=240



Same... I really started off liking this forum because there are some pretty cool people on here but then there's stuff like this...

I agree.......maybe explain to the lady what she is doing wrong (if anything):):)

[sickvenom]

My sand boa has about 2-3 inches of sand and eco earth and is only about 11inches long still quite slender and is mostly found as deep as she can get on the bottom of her enclosure. As long as the bag is breathable and they arnt going to get tangled or snaged on it and try to eat it seeing that sand boas are said to feel more secure with the weight of the substrate on them I don't see how this is so wrong. Glad so far my lil gaia eats without hesitation.

I usually keep mine in 4-5" of sand.

[ilovemypets1988]

They burrow in sand. They don't eat while burried in sand. Lol.....

ah right, as i said it was only an assumption, so thanks for correcting me there

[RandyRhoads]

Not to mention the panic factor.

I can drink carbonated beverages from a bottle while at the bottom of a swimming pool, but I doubt that would work out if you tied me to a boat anchor first..

That's talent.

[LLinz]

Not to mention the panic factor.

I can drink carbonated beverages from a bottle while at the bottom of a swimming pool, but I doubt that would work out if you tied me to a boat anchor first..

I would love to know how you discovered this amazing talent. :nerd:

[Damion930]

Lol I can just picture the gears turning in his head lol. ( after a good buzz ) I bet I can drink this beer at the bottom of the pool drinking while swimming think how much fun ill have and time ill save not getting out to take a drink.

[stephanbakir]

Lol I can just picture the gears turning in his head lol. ( after a good buzz ) I bet I can drink this beer at the bottom of the pool drinking while swimming think how much fun ill have and time ill save not getting out to take a drink.

I can tell you from experience that if you ever plan on drinking under water, block your nose in some way, for some reason when you swallow the water flys up your nose and down your throat:P

[RandyRhoads]

Or if you're scuba diving and your mask comes off. Body naturally draws in through your nose a little when you inhale as well... Was a nasty suprise for me..

[infernalis]

I would love to know how you discovered this amazing talent. :nerd:

Beer bets in the pool when I was younger.

Don't come up until it's empty.

[SnakeyJay]

Lol thats awesome...

[infernalis]

It's not hard, invert the bottle and shake it, the carbonation will force the beer out of the bottle quickly.

Last time I did that was 1994

[RandyRhoads]

Friend showed me how to smoke a cigarette under water. Tastes gross but works. Some day I'd like to try and smoke a J while diving. Probablly not the best idea though. Had an asthma attack 90 feet under in a kelp forrest on Catalina Isle, not fun.

[cenecker]

Hello Everyone!

My name is Elliot Necker. My wife is Jasmine Necker, the woman from the craigslist ad that started this thread. I am compelled to clear up a few things.

1. How KSB in question was fed -

The snake in question was fed both in paper and cloth bags. The bag was half laid flat with a 90 degree angle, pointing the open end up in the air, ensuring oxygen got to the bag. The flat part was covered by about 1/4" of sand.

KSBs are notorious problem eaters, ours was no exception. I stuck with the only thing that got him to eat.

I found the feedback about cloth bags interesting. I have used cloth bags in the past, but will probably stick to paper in the future, for safety.

2. A clarification for "SICKVENOM" (and everyone else)

Lets be very clear - I take care of our snakes. I used the "buried bag" method. All my wife did was relay the info on CL. If you would like to discuss snake care, talk to ME, not my innocent bystander wife. Reach me at -

Phone (call or text) - 602-910-7265

E-Mail - cenecker@yahoo.com

-or- this forum, I'll check back in a few days.

I won't post my address on an internet forum, but I'm in Queen Creek. I know its a bit of a drive. But if you'd like, give me a call and i will give you my address. You're welcome to drop by. I'll make you a cup of coffee and we'll talk snakes!

This is, of course, contingent upon...

3. What I REQUIRE of "SICKVENOM"

You have harrased my wife via e-mail, text, CL posting, and now internet forum posting. Your actions are immature, hurtful, and ridiculous for a grown man. What you've done to my wife is unacceptable. She's a sensitive woman and you hurt her deeply. The worst part is, your cruelty is misplaced. She doesn't take care of the snakes.

I will accept an apology to my wife in person or over the phone. E-mail or text is not enough. If you are a man of integrity, you will be accountable for your misdeeds and will make them right.

It was a pleasure to meet you all!

Thank You,

Elliot Necker

[infernalis]

Hello Everyone!

3. What I REQUIRE of "SICKVENOM"

You have harrased my wife via e-mail, text, CL posting, and now internet forum posting. Your actions are immature, hurtful, and ridiculous for a grown man. What you've done to my wife is unacceptable. She's a sensitive woman and you hurt her deeply. The worst part is, your cruelty is misplaced. She doesn't take care of the snakes.

I will accept an apology to my wife in person or over the phone. E-mail or text is not enough. If you are a man of integrity, you will be accountable for your misdeeds and will make them right.

It was a pleasure to meet you all!

Thank You,

Elliot Necker


Hi Elliot, "Sick" is no longer a part of this community, behaviour like that is unacceptable, and if anyone else on the forum has bothered you, please feel free to contact me.

[Gerrior]

Yea a bit of over reaction to say the least, Mykee's point is well taken, I do not see this harming the snake for a few hours even if it is a bit odd.

[infernalis]

Am I the only one here who is aware that sand boas spend 99% of their lives buried in sand?


Apparently:eek:

[KrazyKat]

Hello Everyone!

My name is Elliot Necker. My wife is Jasmine Necker, the woman from the craigslist ad that started this thread. I am compelled to clear up a few things.

1. How KSB in question was fed -

The snake in question was fed both in paper and cloth bags. The bag was half laid flat with a 90 degree angle, pointing the open end up in the air, ensuring oxygen got to the bag. The flat part was covered by about 1/4" of sand.

KSBs are notorious problem eaters, ours was no exception. I stuck with the only thing that got him to eat.

I found the feedback about cloth bags interesting. I have used cloth bags in the past, but will probably stick to paper in the future, for safety.

2. A clarification for "SICKVENOM" (and everyone else)

Lets be very clear - I take care of our snakes. I used the "buried bag" method. All my wife did was relay the info on CL. If you would like to discuss snake care, talk to ME, not my innocent bystander wife.

It was a pleasure to meet you all!

Thank You,

Elliot Necker

Now there's the context that I mentioned in a different thread! Too bad people don't ask for it before deciding to "burn the witch" so to speak. Good for you Elliot, clearly a stellar husband and a very respectable/honorable one at that, especially considering the way you handled your response - you have more right than anyone here to be outraged and rude, yet you just clearly laid out the facts, and respectfully asked for an apology from one who should be grovelling right now. People should learn from this. You have put many to shame, and rightly so, IMHO.

You have a lucky wife, and though I had no part in this, I would like you to send my apologies to her for the imperfections in human nature, most of this mess is just complete misinterpretation of too little information.

[infernalis]

That former member drove away a long time poster, insulted nearly everyone to the point where I was apologizing to the forum for not banning quicker.

[marvelfreak]

That former member drove away a long time poster, insulted nearly everyone to the point where I was apologizing to the forum for not banning quicker.
So that why i haven't seen him on here. Good job Wayne on taking out the trash. I notice since he gone a few other bad eggs have not been posting. It's nice to see our forum going back to a fun and helpful site. There was starting to be way to much negativity on here. It's just a shame we lose Shaun over it. I wounder if Shaun would come back if he knew Venom was gone.

BTW Cenecker Hello and Welcome to the forum! I hope you stay around, it be nice to have you as part of our forum. Chuck

[KrazyKat]

That former member drove away a long time poster, insulted nearly everyone to the point where I was apologizing to the forum for not banning quicker.

That's really unfortunate, I hope that long time member will come back eventually - but everybody deserves a chance to re-evaluate the way they react to things based on feedback they get, and just guessing, he probably had many telling him off - and he didn't change. Good that you gave him a chance, and good that he went out with quite the humbling "bang" from that poor lady's husband. If he learned nothing of a lesson from that, I would be surprised. I would say, IMO, that you did the right thing all around;)

[Freebody]

So that why i haven't seen him on here. Good job Wayne on taking out the trash. I notice since he gone a few other bad eggs have not been posting. It's nice to see our forum going back to a fun and helpful site. There was starting to be way to much negativity on here. It's just a shame we lose Shaun over it. I wounder if Shaun would come back if he knew Venom was gone.
ya very true, GJ. and I sure hope so! Come back SHAUN!!

[stephanbakir]

Has anyone been able to contact Shaun?

[Jay]

I have sent Wayne a pm to give to Shaun, but I haven't heard anything.

[marvelfreak]

I just sent him a E-mail telling him that he is truly missed by all his friends on here. I think we should all e-mail him and maybe we could get him to come back.

[stephanbakir]

Sounds like a plan, if I had his email.
I'd prefer having his permission before getting/using his email though :(

[Lankyrob]

Goto his profile and send him an email through there, is what i did :) :) :)

[stephanbakir]

Inc email shaun :)

[marvelfreak]

Sounds like a plan, if I had his email.
I'd prefer having his permission before getting/using his email though :(
I did it by going to my friends list a clicking on contact. It ask if you want to pm or e-mail and i just sent a e-mail via these site. I had PM Wayne a while back so he could send a message to him, but like Jay never heard nothing. So i figure i just e-mail him.

What we could do is every body send Wayne a PM message and then Wayne could send them all to Shaun. Maybe if he gets a bunch of messages from us all about how much he missed on the forum he'll come back. I know i for one miss his since of humor and knowledgeable help. He truly is one of the good guys.

You know who else i haven't seen on here in a while is Percey39. It be nice to see him on here again to another truly good guy.

[Jay]

or jen......

[red ink]

I bump into Shaun here and there in other places... PM me if you guys wnat to find out how to "find" him..

[Jay]

Next time you talk to him, tell him to come back for the sake of all the new carpet owners with questions.

[stephanbakir]

Not that we dont love giving advice:P But coming from him means you can put money on the fact that the info you are getting is solid.

[Jay]

Should start a new thread for Shaun, everyone post why we need him back. Maybe he still lurks the boards.

[red ink]

Next time you talk to him, tell him to come back for the sake of all the new carpet owners with questions.

No worries... I've given him the heads up.

It aint that difficult to find him... where there's a carpet or a diamond on the interweb lol. You'll find Shaun.

[infernalis]

Has anyone been able to contact Shaun?

I have emailed and PM Shaun from 4 different forums.

[marvelfreak]

I have emailed and PM Shaun from 4 different forums.
I just join a couple new one for the sole purpose of e-mailing him from those sites. Still no response.:no:

[stephanbakir]

I sent him a few over the last few months, we can hope for the best :)

[red ink]

I got a hold of him... signs are good so it's a wait and see game now.

[Dehlida]

I'm going to go ahead and say that after eading 3/4 of this topic. I found it both humorous and stupid. So many people jumping to extremes and bandwagoning it was entertaining.

It's a sand boa, being under sand won't kill it, being in a bag in sand won't kill it. In my experience with sand boas- feeding it in a pillowcase won't kill it in most cases. Stop over-reacting to something so trivial, focus your energies on the 15 year old kid down the street dousing the cat in gasoline and lighting it on fire. That is cruelty, not this.