looking up?

[Wolfus_305]

Hi Everybody,

I have a 8-9 year old Ball python named Wolfus. I've had him for 3 years.
I just got home from university and I'm noticing some odd behaviour and would like your input.
Twice now I have walked by his enclosure and from his head to about6-7 inches down his body is "standing" straight up in the air. he's looking up and holding perfectly still. I have seen him do this for about 5 minutes but I always walk in when he's like that and never see him start it. Occassionally he'll sway very slightly frontwards and backwards and flick his tongue and then he'll go back to holding very still. I don't have any pictures unfortunately, but the best way I can describe it is he looks like an "L" shape sitting straight up like that.
Is this normal and I've just never noticed it before or should I be looking for other things to keep an eye on?
Thanks everybody!
Kendra

[sickvenom]

hate to say it, but could it be star gazing? search you tube for videos. if it is star gazing, then it's pretty serious.

[shaunyboy]

its NOT star gazing so please don't think it is

i think royal keepers reffer to it as it doing an up periscope (like a submarine)

its in hunting mode having a look around and totally harmless royals do it all the time

cheers shaun

[sickvenom]

its NOT star gazing so please don't think it is

not sure you are qualified to make such a statement without seeing the specimen. in fact, what she described are the very same symptoms i have seen in person, and the snake did have ibd. even if it's not ibd, don't be so quick to rule it out, especially since you have NEVER SEEN the snake's behavior.

[Wolfus_305]

Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate it.
He's refused food since January so the hunting thing sounds pretty accurate. I'm trying to feed him again tonight, wish me luck
(when I got him he didn't eat for 11.5 months, he was driving me crazy)

[shaunyboy]

hate to say it, but could it be star gazing? search you tube for videos. if it is star gazing, then it's pretty serious.

there would be a lot more symptoms present if it was star gazing mate like chronic diaharea,regurgatation,unable to right itself if placed on its back,and looking drunk and out of control of its movements

when startgazing a snake sick with ibd generally falls back on its self with quite a thump unable to control its balance

i'm not being cheeky mate but please put a bit of thought into it before you alarm someone suggesting it may be ibd which can wipe out whole collections

as said i in no way wish or mean to offend you

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate it.
He's refused food since January so the hunting thing sounds pretty accurate. I'm trying to feed him again tonight, wish me luck
(when I got him he didn't eat for 11.5 months, he was driving me crazy)


i''ve seen loads of pictures on forums of them doing it especially when they are outside in the grass it looks very cute when they do it

i'm sure when wayne comes along he will have some pictures of a royal (ball python) doing it

cheers shaun

[Wolfus_305]

To me it seems like the hunting mode suggestion because he has not eaten in a while, however I will keep my eyes open for other symptoms. I had him out yesterday and when I was inspecting him (just to make sure he's healthy and shed well) he kept rolling over and not allowing me to see his belly, from what I understand, that's a good thing that he doesn't want his belly in the air?

[shaunyboy]

To me it seems like the hunting mode suggestion because he has not eaten in a while, however I will keep my eyes open for other symptoms. I had him out yesterday and when I was inspecting him (just to make sure he's healthy and shed well) he kept rolling over and not allowing me to see his belly, from what I understand, that's a good thing that he doesn't want his belly in the air?

yes thats a good sign pal honestly you have nothing to worry about its normal royal behavoir

cheers shaun

[Wolfus_305]

Thank you :)

[sickvenom]

Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate it.
He's refused food since January so the hunting thing sounds pretty accurate. I'm trying to feed him again tonight, wish me luck
(when I got him he didn't eat for 11.5 months, he was driving me crazy)

Balls will often go off feed. Monitor him closely as any new odd behavior could be something serious. Also, if you notice that he has flipped on his back and he can't right himself, then that is yet another sign of ibd. Don't dismiss the seriousness of idb just because some random guy claims it's nothing serious. Balls are notorious for idb and it can start with the behavior you described. Not only do I have extensive experience with balls, but I used to work for a vet. Hopefully it is nothing serious as shaunyboy has stated, but keep watching him.

[Wolfus_305]

I am taking all comments into consideration.

I also mentioned that I would keep my eyes open for other symptoms, just to be on the safe side. Also, I mentioned that when I tried to roll him over to see his belly, he struggled and didn't like it, which to me seems like he can right himself.

I will keep a close eye on him because he is my baby, right now he's out and about and very active, I will post an update to let you know how the feeding tonight goes.

I'm not super concerned about the not eating because he has done this before (and he's finicky when he does eat) and he is not losing weight and he's still plenty active. He has no mites and no wheezing either and I made sure that all his shed came off.

I appreciate your input, thank you :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

sickvenom stop alarming the poor girl. kudos shaun.

[TeaNinja]

i've seen my bp do that also. stargazing looks different.

[Wolfus_305]

Thank you everyone for the supportive comments and information, I really appreciate it

[sickvenom]

sickvenom stop alarming the poor girl. kudos shaun.

You don't have the experience to comment on this one jr. Sorry.

[sickvenom]

i've seen my bp do that also. stargazing looks different.

I guess you have seen more cases of star gazing than I have? Geez some of you are dangerous with the 'info' you give out around here.

[TeaNinja]

I guess you have seen more cases of star gazing than I have? Geez some of you are dangerous with the 'info' you give out around here.


think before you speak, you might as well be talking about yourself. the symptoms she stated are CLEARLY not stargazing.
if ANYTHING, you are overassessing the situation and pumping fear for no reason.

i havn't seen many cases of stargazing. but i have seen my BP doing EXACTLY what she said and many others. so does every BP that ever looks up have a stargaze?

there would be a lot more symptoms present if it was star gazing mate like chronic diaharea,regurgatation,unable to right itself if placed on its back,and looking drunk and out of control of its movements



when startgazing a snake sick with ibd generally falls back on its self with quite a thump unable to control its balance



i'm not being cheeky mate but please put a bit of thought into it before you alarm someone suggesting it may be ibd which can wipe out whole collections



as said i in no way wish or mean to offend you



cheers shaun

not to mention shaun already said it all

[Wolfus_305]

You can call me Kendra.

I really do appreciate all the comments and help. When I say he sways slightly back and forth he's not bending back... it's more of he's moving a millimetre forward and a millimetre back, and he does this with the entire length of him that is "standing up", not just the head or below the head.

I've youtubed videos of stargazing and wobbles and he does not look like that. He does not BEND backwards, he just sways very slightly, I had to move closer to make sure I wasn't just imagining him swaying.

As I have said. I will keep my eyes open for other symptoms that people here have warned me about and I will keep you updated on his condition. Seeing as he has not eaten since January 5th I think it could be more of a hunting thing as suggested earlier.

Thank you again,
Kendra

[TeaNinja]

kendra, when i first got my bp, i thought he might have a slight wobble or something also, until i realized it was normal.

check out the post i made, it's somewhat similar to this one.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-python-forum/85181-bp-question.html

[Wolfus_305]

Thanks Zak,

It's sort of like that, the only difference is that he's not doing it while moving forward.
have you ever seen those hunting dogs that when they see something they stand and point and hold very still? it's kind of like only vertically (with a teeny tiny bit of swaying back and forth, not bending back and forth)

His balance seems fine (except when he's super active and over extends)

he's still strong and when I tried to look at his belly yesterday he kept rolling over to hide it.

Thank you again!

[TeaNinja]

yea like they said he's prolly hunting. i've seen my bp do that multiple times. what i've noticed is they sway when they breathe. next time he's up like that and you see him swaying, check his breathing, they usually coincide.

[dshin963]

Yea my BP has done that as well sometimes never been a problem... It gets especially worse while I am scenting the room before a feed... Kendra I wouldn't worry too too much but if you want to be reassured you could always take him to a vet... better safe than sorry mentality :D

[Wolfus_305]

That's interesting, I will try to check his breathing if i see him doing it again :)

I plan on feeding him tonight, we'll see how that goes :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

I didnt give out any information jerk, i just told you to stop over doing it. i would trust shaun over you any day.

[Reptile_Reptile]

just to clarify i have never even seen you before.

[Jay]

just to clarify i have never even seen you before.
Why must you call him a jerk lol You and me both have never dealt with "Stargazing" so you are just as bad telling her its nothing and not to be alarmed when it could be something You have no idea what your talking about. Kendra take a vid and post it maybe that will clear the air

[Lankyrob]

Once again the name calling starts :no:

Judging on the symptoms described and making only one assunption - that if there were other concerns you would have listed them - then it isnt stargazing but just normal python behaviour. All my pythons are seen to do this at some point, and as there are no other concerns i dont worry myself about it. When they first did it i checked out the stargazing vids and it this behaviour is 100% totally different to that shown and described by herp vets when they diagnose and advise what to look out for.

I partly agree with sickvenom when he says that you cant diagnose without seeing the animal itself, BUT, with no other symptoms described i think it is slightly over the top to immediately shout the worst thing it could possibly be. If you are concerned that someone is describing something seriuos then it would be better to ask tactful questions rather than jump in with a devastating diagnosis.

[TeaNinja]

thank you rob lol. that's kind of what i wanted to say, but my lack of ability to word things well is astounding sometimes.

[Wolfus_305]

I can't take any videos or pictures because I forgot my camera at university in a different city and won't be able to get it until May 10th.

I tried to find pictures online of what he's doing but none of them looked like it

[Reptile_Reptile]

I just called him a jerk cause i felt he was being a jerk, its not that big of a deal.

[Lankyrob]

Name calling is justbnot nevesary, if you dont agree with someone then explain why in an adult fashion and everyone will listen to both sides to make their own opinion, by calling someone names it weakens any "argument" that you then put forward.

[shaunyboy]

everyone please go to the headshots thread and look at the last page at the picture i bumped for kendra to look at long before you all started bickering like old lady's

she says its the same thing but with the head looking up imo its a royal python doing what they do

its only carpets i work with and i am only commenting due to scaremongering going on.but i pretty sure its not inclusion body disease as some of you are impling

kendra take some pictures if possible as no one can give a proper opinion until we see it

for the record in case of any crossed wires NONE of this is aimed at you rob mate

thanks in advance shaun

[Reptile_Reptile]

ok then i'll apologize


sorry sickvenom for calling you a jerk.

[Wolfus_305]

Hey everybody,

Wolfus didn't eat tonight. He seemed slightly interested in the rat, went up to it, flicked his tongue, backed away, did that a few times then he just went back into his hide. It's the same size and type of rat that I've been feeding him. I figure he'll eat when he's hungry.

As soon as I can take pictures I will. I will be able to get my camera May 10th when I go back out to my appartment at university and then I'll watch him closely to ensure I get pictures if and when he does it again.

That is the only odd behaviour of his that I've noticed. He's only clumsy when he overextends and he's "crawling" all over his enclosure. And as I've said he was flipping over and trying to prevent me from turning his belly upwards yesterday to look at it.
Thank you for all the help so far :)

[sickvenom]

Hey everybody,

Wolfus didn't eat tonight. He seemed slightly interested in the rat, went up to it, flicked his tongue, backed away, did that a few times then he just went back into his hide. It's the same size and type of rat that I've been feeding him. I figure he'll eat when he's hungry.

As soon as I can take pictures I will. I will be able to get my camera May 10th when I go back out to my appartment at university and then I'll watch him closely to ensure I get pictures if and when he does it again.

That is the only odd behaviour of his that I've noticed. He's only clumsy when he overextends and he's "crawling" all over his enclosure. And as I've said he was flipping over and trying to prevent me from turning his belly upwards yesterday to look at it.
Thank you for all the help so far :)

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/86459-ibd-educating-uneducated.html#post603962

[Wolfus_305]

-Since I got him he has been a finicky and sporatic eater, so this hunger strike is not abnormal for him
-he is not losing weight, he is still a healthy shape without being fat
-he has never, not once regurgitated anything I've fed him
-he has never had abnormal looking poops
-His tongue flicking looks normal
-He does not have mites, I checked him yesterday when I took him out of his enclosure
-When I had him out his movments seemed normal, he wrapped around my arm, then around the back of the chair.
-When I was checking him for mites (because I like to do health inspections, not because he's had them before, he never has, nothing in my house has ever had mites)
-He has never had any breathing or respiratory problems. he does not wheeze or leave his mouth open for extended periods of time (just when he "yawns")
-He did not like it when I turned him belly up and he proceeded to flip over so his belly was facing down.
-I never handle my snakes together and I sterilize everything to prevent contamination of one snake to another snake and one pet to another pet
-the rest of his motor skills look normal, he's very active for a portion of the day and then he's in his hide and sometimes he'll poke his head out for a bit
-I've never seen him looking disoriented, just wandering his enclosure like he's exploring, like a normal snake
-I've never seen him "corkscrewing" his head or neck
-I've never seen him rolling onto his back, at all

[sickvenom]

-Since I got him he has been a finicky and sporatic eater, so this hunger strike is not abnormal for him

one of the most common problems with balls, happens to be one of the first signs of ibd.

-he is not losing weight, he is still a healthy shape without being fat
-he has never, not once regurgitated anything I've fed him
-he has never had abnormal looking poops
-His tongue flicking looks normal
-He does not have mites, I checked him yesterday when I took him out of his enclosure
-When I had him out his movments seemed normal, he wrapped around my arm, then around the back of the chair.
-When I was checking him for mites (because I like to do health inspections, not because he's had them before, he never has, nothing in my house has ever had mites)
-He has never had any breathing or respiratory problems. he does not wheeze or leave his mouth open for extended periods of time (just when he "yawns")
-He did not like it when I turned him belly up and he proceeded to flip over so his belly was facing down.
-I never handle my snakes together and I sterilize everything to prevent contamination of one snake to another snake and one pet to another pet
-the rest of his motor skills look normal, he's very active for a portion of the day and then he's in his hide and sometimes he'll poke his head out for a bit
-I've never seen him looking disoriented, just wandering his enclosure like he's exploring, like a normal snake
-I've never seen him "corkscrewing" his head or neck
-I've never seen him rolling onto his back, at all

all good signs. but at least now you know what to look for. i'm sure you read in the article that once a snake has ibd, there is no cure. that's why i take this topic seriously and you should too! those who dismiss behavior such as 'standing' and swaying really do amaze me.

[Wolfus_305]

I've had him for 3 years now. When I got him he didn't eat for 11.5 months. Every winter he stops eating. The eating thing is not abnormal for him and I hear it's not abnormal for ball pythons in general.

I have told you that I take this seriously, which is why I started this thread, however I do know my snake better than you do since you've never met him or been able to watch him. I have been looking and looking for other syptoms, but I can't find any, he just does not have them. I appreciate all the information that you have provided about IBD, but based on the circumstances at the given time I think that he's just "hunting".

I will keep my eyes on him (since he's next to my computer I get to see him the majority of the day) and I will keep updating this thread

[Wolfus_305]

Wolfus has been out and about exploring his enclosure all morning. His movements all appear normal, haven't seen anything out of the ordinary.

[dshin963]

Wolfus has been out and about exploring his enclosure all morning. His movements all appear normal, haven't seen anything out of the ordinary.

That is excellent news :)

[Wolfus_305]

yes, thank you :)

[infernalis]

Kane does it all the time..

http://www.reptard.info/2010/kane.jpg

[dshin963]

Np,

Reassurance and comfort for the win :D

[Wolfus_305]

Ahahah yes, comfort and reassurance, always my favourite things

He sort of looks like that picture except instead of having his head forward like that, it's straight up, completely vertical

[NennaMeerkat]

I can't help but say that the picture you posted up Infernalis is sooooo cute! Its shots like that that make me want to get a ball. But I know what I am and am not ready for...still they are such characters.

[Wolfus_305]

NennaMeerkat, I totally agree, the picture looks SO adorable, like it's got such character

[infernalis]

He's a big lazy oaf.... he does explore a little outside, slow and leisurely.

[dshin963]

He's a big lazy oaf.... he does explore a little outside, slow and leisurely.

Lol sounds like me :yes:

[NennaMeerkat]

It is to bad the one ball I had gotten from a pet store (never again will I make that mistake) did have that condition that was being discussed here on this site. It was heartwrenching to say the least.

[Wolfus_305]

Aww, I'm so sorry, that must have been awful :(

yup, my first snake (some kind of fancy corn snake i can't remember the name of now) was a petstore snake, NEVER EVER again

[NennaMeerkat]

I felt horrible for taking the snake back to the pet store to get my money back for the tank and everything...seemed so impersonal to return a living thing as if it were a faulty electronic.

[Wolfus_305]

My snake didn't last long, he passed away. he was my first pet that belonged to just me and it traumatized me. I was devestated

[NennaMeerkat]

I am sorry to hear that. It is to bad neither of us knew how horribly most pet stores care for their herps in general. Then there would have been no heartbreak and instead healthy pets.

[LLinz]

Mine stands up like that, with his head straight every 2 weeks, when he starts "yawning" and standing, he always takes a rat. I call it his hungry dance lol

[Wolfus_305]

Ahah I like the sound of that, the hungry dance :P
I tried to feed him but he didn't take it. same kind of rats, from the same delivery, heated up and served the same way that I've been doing it since he started eating when I got him, but he's refused a meal since January 5th

[marvelfreak]

He sort of looks like that picture except instead of having his head forward like that, it's straight up, completely vertical
So he looking straight up?

[Wolfus_305]

Yes, he is looking straight up. the same portion of his body as in the picture above is vertical but his head does not face forwards when he does it. it is straight up like a continuation of his body and he holds freakishly still and then every so slightly sways forwards and backwards (VERY slightly, I had to move closer to see if it was him moving or my eyes tricking me).

[marvelfreak]

Yes, he is looking straight up. the same portion of his body as in the picture above is vertical but his head does not face forwards when he does it. it is straight up like a continuation of his body and he holds freakishly still and then every so slightly sways forwards and backwards (VERY slightly, I had to move closer to see if it was him moving or my eyes tricking me).
Could be just trying to figure a way out of his cage or could be a early sign of IBD. Just like Sickvenom said. How often is he doing it?

I lost my entire collection to it years ago. I had gotten a RTB that had it, and back then i didn't crap about quarantining snakes. My balls and bumeses python were the first to start showing signs. (stargazers) By the time i found out what it was, they all had it. It wipe out python a lot faster than boas. The RTB that had it was the last one to die.

What your describing to me does sound just like what my balls and 2 of my burmeses did when they got it. The RTBs never really did the stargazer. Hopefully it's nothing. Just keep up watching him closely. It couldn't hurt to take him to a vet a get him check out for peace of mind.

[Wolfus_305]

I've only noticed him doing it twice.

The rest of the time he's exploring and trying to find a way out of his tank (because he did manage to escape once, then he got locked in). He slithers from side to the other side and he goes up to the top and tries to crawl along it and then he's back crawling along the back wall, he looks completely normal to me.

I will definitely keep a close eye on him for other symptoms.

Nothing in his habitat has changed recently (i clean it and change the bedding but I mean no big temp changes or humidity changes or things like that)

[Lankyrob]

If it is ibd thrn judging from the previous responses pretty much every ball owner has it in their collection............

[Wolfus_305]

I know it's very tough because I can't get a picture of it, but I answered all the questions and responded to all the symptoms that sickvenom posted for me to read.

I have only seen him do it twice and other than that (and the lack of eating, which is normal for my guy, he likes to frustrate me) he seems completely normal

[marvelfreak]

I've only noticed him doing it twice.



Then i wouldn't worry about it. When mine started doing it it was a like dozen time a day or more a day. He just wanting to escape IMO.:)

[Wolfus_305]

Thank you once again to everybody who has taken the time to give me advice, I really appreciate it. I will keep my eyes on him :)

[SnakeyJay]

My corn and my brb both do it when theyre active... It just gives them a better view of theyre surroundings I think, for prey, threats etc. just my oppinion. Hope hes ok though wolfus.

[Wolfus_305]

Thank you for your support :)
You can call me Kendra

[shaunyboy]

i bet when he's in that position he also flicks his toungue out as imo he is hunting

my carpets will hold their heads vertical and toungue flick so they can suss out the direction the prey is in

if their heads are straight and vertical it acts as a centre point for judging direction of their prey

i have witnessed a case of ibd in a boa and its not a pretty sight as chuck will tell you having experienced this horrible disease in his previous collection.

star gazing is one of the latter symptoms there would be a lot more going on its if was ibd at the star gazing stage

cheers shaun

[Wolfus_305]

He flick's his tongue, you're right.

Sickvenom posted a whole slew of symptoms and I responded to every one (I think) and he has none of them, I am sure he is just hunting.

Thanks everybody for the comments and guidance

[burtonboy_001]

I had a ball with a respiratory inffection a few years back Thad did the same thing. Vet said it was because fluid build up in the lungs. Hope everything works out for u

[TeaNinja]

I had a ball with a respiratory inffection a few years back Thad did the same thing. Vet said it was because fluid build up in the lungs. Hope everything works out for u

that's interesting, did it have any nose/mouth bubbles or any other symptoms?

[mykee]

Alright, let's put an end to this unnecessary fear-mongering crap that sickvenom is spouting off about.
I think I may have the most experience here with ball pythons, so listen up Kendra;
Unless you introduced another infected animal (most likely a boa) into the same environment recently, it is NOT IBD. Ball pythons don't just "get" IBD out of thin air; it's a virus that can lay dormant in boas their entire lives, but will kill pythons within a month.
Unless that symptom of "periscoping" (which, incidentally, I've seen ALL 125 plus of my adults do at some point) is paired with other symptoms, you can safely rule out IBD.

When you get a cold, you think a cold, not HIV.

[Wolfus_305]

Thank you Mykee!
No boas here and he isn't showing any other symptoms

[belovedboas]

Hey Kendra, (If I may call you by name), I don't have the experience with Royal's as some of the guys that already posted, but I have owned a few over the years and I too have seen many Royal's/ balls do this.....better safe than sorry but I think he's fine....:):)just an opinion

[Wolfus_305]

Thanks Greg,
I think he's fine too. I just wanted to make sure.
Thanks everybody

[sickvenom]

Alright, let's put an end to this unnecessary fear-mongering crap that sickvenom is spouting off about.

it is not unnecessary. if you think it's 'fear-mongering' then you really have no idea how deadly ibd can be. continue ready to learn more...

I think I may have the most experience here with ball pythons,

possible. i had breeding project going on in 1991. you?

Unless you introduced another infected animal (most likely a boa) into the same environment recently, it is NOT IBD.

exactly. but she never stated if she recently acquired a new specimen, or not.

Ball pythons don't just "get" IBD out of thin air; it's a virus that can lay dormant in boas their entire lives, but will kill pythons within a month.

actually, less than a month. and it will spread like a wild fire. i have seen ibd wipe out entire collections, even when the snakes were housed in separate enclosures.

Unless that symptom of "periscoping" (which, incidentally, I've seen ALL 125 plus of my adults do at some point) is paired with other symptoms, you can safely rule out IBD.

not true. there is no absolute 'first' sign of ibd. it can show up in many different forms. that is why i brought it up in the first place. we know how serious it is. even if it's not ibd in this case, people need to know about the signs of ibd so they can quarantine their snake asap and get it out of the house. this is also why you should ALWAYS quarantine new boids when you bring them into an established collection. i wasn't trying to 'scare' anyone or be unruly, it was a genuine concern. i have worked for some of the top herp doctors in washington state. i currently know the top herp doctor in arizona. i grew up around doctors and scientists who worked at the university of washington and the woodland park zoo. i have PERSONALLY seen ibd diagnosed via symptoms of mouth rot, mites, creased eyes, RI, writhing/contorting, loss of appetite, gazing, and also the symptoms Wolfus_305 originally stated (which almost sounded like gazing at first.) i think it says a lot when people ruled out ibd and jumped on my ***, when they have probably never even seen cases of ibd in person.

also, chances of surving ibd are pretty slim. almost all will die from it.

When you get a cold, you think a cold, not HIV.

when you experience signs of liver failure, do you think urinary tract infection?

[Lankyrob]

exactly. but she never stated if she recently acquired a new specimen, or not.

Just think how easy it would have been to just ask this question instead of jumping to the worst possible case scenario straight away :rolleyes:

[sickvenom]

Just think how easy it would have been to just ask this question instead of jumping to the worst possible case scenario straight away :rolleyes:

you are right lankyrob! but, i stated my reasons for bringing up the horrible condition. it's sad when you see a collection of 35 boids get wiped out one by one (actually sometimes several went in a day), within a period of 3 months. it's one of those things that i bring up for education purposes, not as a scare tactic. so i apologize if i scared anyone, but i'm often times surprised at how many people don't know about ibd and its seriousness. it really is like stage 4 cancer that spreads.

[Reptile_Reptile]

reasons stated or not, asking all the questions first is a great idea. It allows you to get a hold of the situation better. good lookout though.

[sickvenom]

reasons stated or not, asking all the questions first is a great idea. It allows you to get a hold of the situation better. good lookout though.

as i have said in the past, reptile_reptile, you are wise for you age. i wasn't joke, i was being serious. i'm glad you are our future.

[TeaNinja]

starting to sound like john connor.

[Reptile_Reptile]

i wouldnt call myself wise, I make plenty of stupid decisions.

[mykee]

Matt, I'm not playing your little games.
There are plenty who will play with you here though...

[dshin963]

Matt, I'm not playing your little games.
There are plenty who will play with you here though...

Amen to that!

[Ch^4]

I know it's very tough because I can't get a picture of it, but I answered all the questions and responded to all the symptoms that sickvenom posted for me to read.

I have only seen him do it twice and other than that (and the lack of eating, which is normal for my guy, he likes to frustrate me) he seems completely normal

3 out of my modest 9 ball pythons will eat on a regular basis. The other 6 like to "frustrate" me as well! Skip a meal here, take a meal there; fairly normal for BPs. My oldest male will go weeks without food, and then will go weeks with food....he likes to keep me guessing.

Alright, let's put an end to this unnecessary fear-mongering crap that sickvenom is spouting off about.
I think I may have the most experience here with ball pythons, so listen up Kendra;
Unless you introduced another infected animal (most likely a boa) into the same environment recently, it is NOT IBD. Ball pythons don't just "get" IBD out of thin air; it's a virus that can lay dormant in boas their entire lives, but will kill pythons within a month.
Unless that symptom of "periscoping" (which, incidentally, I've seen ALL 125 plus of my adults do at some point) is paired with other symptoms, you can safely rule out IBD.

When you get a cold, you think a cold, not HIV.

You are the BP king! You will have to give us an update thread...I love the eye candy.

it is not unnecessary. if you think it's 'fear-mongering' then you really have no idea how deadly ibd can be. continue ready to learn more...



possible. i had breeding project going on in 1991. you?



exactly. but she never stated if she recently acquired a new specimen, or not.



actually, less than a month. and it will spread like a wild fire. i have seen ibd wipe out entire collections, even when the snakes were housed in separate enclosures.



not true. there is no absolute 'first' sign of ibd. it can show up in many different forms. that is why i brought it up in the first place. we know how serious it is. even if it's not ibd in this case, people need to know about the signs of ibd so they can quarantine their snake asap and get it out of the house. this is also why you should ALWAYS quarantine new boids when you bring them into an established collection. i wasn't trying to 'scare' anyone or be unruly, it was a genuine concern. i have worked for some of the top herp doctors in washington state. i currently know the top herp doctor in arizona. i grew up around doctors and scientists who worked at the university of washington and the woodland park zoo. i have PERSONALLY seen ibd diagnosed via symptoms of mouth rot, mites, creased eyes, RI, writhing/contorting, loss of appetite, gazing, and also the symptoms Wolfus_305 originally stated (which almost sounded like gazing at first.) i think it says a lot when people ruled out ibd and jumped on my ***, when they have probably never even seen cases of ibd in person.

also, chances of surving ibd are pretty slim. almost all will die from it.



when you experience signs of liver failure, do you think urinary tract infection?

Go Huskies (I'm working on my Ph.D. at the UW)! You seem very knowledgeable and my absence has not allowed me to get to know you better...I hope to though! :)

I just felt like responding to the feeding blurb that seemed to go unanswered.