power feeding

[mo9e64]

this is a quote from someone who has been breeding monitors for thirty years over twenty species over generations-who did not go to Africa and study stomach contents of wild Sav's,and who feeds his monitors just crickets and mice.
"such terms such as power feeding,are naive(read stupid)terms when related to captive husbandry.What does that mean,feed the animal when hungry?So what the hack,if you are feeding an animal when it wants to eat and feeding it till it's not hungry,that is not power feeding,that is normal feeding,anything less is substandard." Frank Retes

The people who have followed his way are also having success and breeding monitors over more than 1 generation-as far as i know you guys haven't even bred monitors,not even Robert Spracklands illegimate son-that he's not even aware of.Forums are for different points of view,you all seem to have the same view-and have no real need to broaden your learning and anything i can learn from you isn't anything i can't learn from a book from the sixties.Anything you have that is new was developed by Frank Retes or people like him,i'll just go to the source-so this is not a good fit for me-this was my last post.Moderator please delete my account

[shaunyboy]

instead of giving up and deleting your acount would it not have been more hounorable and productive to stick around and help educate people ?????

i cannot speak on lizard's as its only morelia i work with i can however comment on your attitude of " i give up "

maybe if you had stuck around and helped to sway folk towards your methods backed with study's proof and hands on experience then people would have been more open to your view's and come round to your methods

now they will be thinking what a huffy guy who stomped off because some people wouldn't listen to him and the guy he takes his information from

power feeding in snakes
this has been proven to shorten lives and plays a part in producing more slugs than you would normally expect when breeding.

if allowed to a snake will eat to the point of being obese which will eventually lead to health problems...!!

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

Lol - i typed something almost identical and then thought "why bother" and didnt post it! Cant agree with you more Shaun - in effect he has totally discredited his own opinion.

[shaunyboy]

Lol - i typed something almost identical and then thought "why bother" and didnt post it! Cant agree with you more Shaun - in effect he has totally discredited his own opinion.


his post made me think of a sulking kid who has just been told by his mother he can't have something so goes away throwing a hissy fit stomping his feet

nowt as queer as folk mate :yes:

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

Thing is, Frank is a blow hard arse hole.. He owns land in Arizona where the climate almost matches that of the Savannah plains, He rams his point of view down everyones throat and has been kicked off more forums than most of us would care to join.

Once upon a time I listened to Frank.. But when he said this and I quote...

"You can feed them nails as long as you keep them warm enough"

Moe, I hate to tell you buddy, this forum is for the service of it's own members, we have a very tight knit "gated community" here, we are a collective of responsible herp keepers who want what is best for our animals, we are not necessarily here to please you or entertain ideas that just make no sense at all.

and by the way, the Daniel Bennett study was conducted in the year 2000, a whole lot more recently than you indicated in your post.

I have followed every post you have ever made here, and it is painfully apparent that every time someone argues with you in a thread, you feel a need to attempt and open another.

You posted this one right in the wake of a feeding debate on savs..

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/85820-nile-monitors.html

The number of replies you received should be a great indicator of just how interested anyone is in entertaining your desires to seem knowledgeable.

Chompers thread was never a debate thread, never intended to be, it was nothing more than a picture showcase, until "someone" decided to challenge my husbandry.

Hey Mykee, I feed my BP chicken and scrambled eggs, he always eats it.. How am I doing taking care of him buddy???

nuff said.

[Max713]

I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there, I love this forum :)

[Jay]

Same !! and I apologize for derailing chompers thread

[bighog85]

so this is not a good fit for me-this was my last post.Moderator please delete my account

Break my heart, don't let the door smack you on your way out.

[Little Wise Owl]

Well, Mo9e64, I'd personally rather listen to nature and studies rather than a sketchy breeder who makes claims like what Infernalis posted about the feeding of nails.

You should try to get into the Varanus.nl forum. You'll learn a lot about proper monitor care and husbandry.

[infernalis]

An excellent resource, I quoted from them many times....

The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus (http://savannahmonitor.org/)

[Little Wise Owl]

Agreed.

If and when I ever came into ownership of V. Exanthematicus, I'd follow that website and varanus.nl's information and advice.

[infernalis]

Same !! and I apologize for derailing chompers thread


Jay, your willingness to listen to logic and reason is better than any apology.

I appreciate you saying that, thanks. Shows consideration for others as well.

[Jay]

No problem. Fed Chomper some earth worms today he seemed to enjoy them, although I'm sure he would eat anything that moves

[infernalis]

No problem. Fed Chomper some earth worms today he seemed to enjoy them, although I'm sure he would eat anything that moves

In captivity they will. Not sure why, but they just will.

There was a woman once who fed hers canned tuna, it died at age 2.

[Jay]

Yuck canned, full of preservatives!! That cant be good. Can earthworms be fed as a weekly treat or monthly

[infernalis]

I give them to him all the time, they are cheap, full of protein, and one of the things they eat in nature, African worms are so much larger than "Canadian Night Crawlers" but are the same "meat", so my feelings are since they are natural food that Savs eat in the wild, I use it in his normal diet.

Look at this African version of a night crawler.

http://www.thamnophis.us/chomp/african-earthworm.jpg

Yuck canned, full of preservatives!! That cant be good.

And salt, excessive salt is lethal to any reptile, Tuna also contains Thiaminase, an enzyme that blocks thiamine absorption, that leads to liver failure.

Goldfish, Rosy reds and comet fish are all full of this lethal enzyme, never feed those common feeder fish to any reptile that will consume fish, the results are not immediate, it can take years, but when the liver shuts down, they suffer a slow painful death.

[Jenn_06]

ok taking about fish can they eat catfish or other lake/river fish? i feed Jojo a little catfish last year and he loved it.

[shaunyboy]

Yuck canned, full of preservatives!! That cant be good. Can earthworms be fed as a weekly treat or monthly


pregnant women are advised AGAINST eating tuna due to high mercury content/contamination

i'm thinking this is what played a part in the lady's lizard dieng at 2 years of age also if it was only tuna being fed it surely would not have got all its required nourishment from tuna alone ?

sorry i'm not too clued up on lizards folks

cheers shaun

[Jay]

OMG look at the size of that worm. One of those equals a dozen of ours lol

[shaunyboy]

OMG look at the size of that worm. One of those equals a dozen of ours lol

wonder how big the fish would be you caught if that worm was your bait;)

[infernalis]

ok taking about fish can they eat catfish or other lake/river fish? i feed Jojo a little catfish last year and he loved it.

Bullhead, catfish, Carp, Fathead minnow, Gizzard Shad, Spottail Shiner, Common White Sucker, Lake Whitefish, Buffalofish & Bream all contain Thiaminase

I personally prefer to stick with - Trout, rock bass, calico bass, sunfish, Chubs and guppies, all fish that are reported to be safe reptile food.

Another thing to take into consideration is the quality of the water the fish came from, many waterways are polluted or contain trace pollutants that can be detrimental to your pet's health.

google the word Thiaminase, there are many articles about it's effect on reptiles.

thiaminase in fish - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1020&bih=583&q=thiaminase+in+fish&aq=1&aqi=g5g-v5&aql=f&oq=)


************************************************** ***

[stephanbakir]

Scary, The only fish i feed to my reptiles are guppies lake trout and speckled trout.

[infernalis]

All superb choices.

My garter snakes love rainbow trout. so don't Chomper.

[Jenn_06]

ok thats we have a lake next to the house with tons of sunfish and its a very clean lake.

[Millinex]

I'm not trying to step on toes by bringing this up, but what the OP said was partially correct. Naturally these monitors as they are young are perfect prey for many animals, and many get eaten. It is programmed within them to eat, eat, eat and get to an almost adult size very fast.

I know sidbarvin had his 2 nile monitors at over 5 feet within the first year, 24/7 lighting and feeding as much as they wanted. I would also say his niles are probably the healthiest captive adult monitors I have seen online, and I believe his 2 original males at 4-5 years old are well over 7 foot long now.

If temps/humidity/substrate is maintained, feeding large volumes is very beneficial in my eyes. However, when the former requirements are not kept properly, it leads to health problems, poor growth, and an obese animal.

I'm not going to lie, every time someone tells me their 16" sav is a year old, I almost throw up, as a sav should be almost 3 feet or 3 feet within it's first year.

-Mike

[Reptile_Reptile]

thats a pretty big growth spurt. btw how did you learn thread necromancy?

[Millinex]

The thread is like 2-3 weeks old.. that's not thread necromancy lol.

[NennaMeerkat]

See now I have a question having this thread brought back from the dead and food being an issue on this thread in general. I don't own and large lizards and don't plan on it. However when I worked at a zoo we had a big older savannah monitor and we were instructed to feed it baby chickens or slightly older chickens. The lizard LOVED them but I don't know how healthy of a diet on just them was for him.

He was a rescue from a home that didn't give him proper care. He didn't move well, I think due to bad bones, and because of that was a total slouch in general. I don't remember if he was overweight since he was my first and only adult I have ever seen in person and dealt with.

[infernalis]

Avians in general are poor food items for reptiles.

[Millinex]

As a staple diet, chicks are awful, however, I do occasionally feed them out to my herps as a variety/treat item.

-Mike

[NennaMeerkat]

Makes me wonder what made them think it was a good idea. We had tons of crickets, mice, and such since we had so many other reptiles. That is disappointing now since I thought a zoo would want what is best for their animals. Especially since this zoo (I refuse to name them) wasn't a private person's zoo but one that was a big zoo that was run by the city/state.

Now it makes me question their other feeding practices.

[Millinex]

Makes me wonder what made them think it was a good idea. We had tons of crickets, mice, and such since we had so many other reptiles. That is disappointing now since I thought a zoo would want what is best for their animals. Especially since this zoo (I refuse to name them) wasn't a private person's zoo but one that was a big zoo that was run by the city/state.

Now it makes me question their other feeding practices.
Happens a lot with herps in zoos. Happened to my zoo as well.

-Mike

[Reptile_Reptile]

I think it was dead. two weeks and its washed away by all the new threads.

[NennaMeerkat]

I want to assume, only because what I can remember from other feeding practices they did for the other reptiles, that they might have rescued the lizard with the best of intentions in mind but didn't know how to really deal with the species in general. Everything else they had was much smaller, bearded dragons and various geckos, or a snake.

[Millinex]

I think it was dead. two weeks and its washed away by all the new threads.
It was like... the 10th topic on the list, not even second page..

I want to assume, only because what I can remember from other feeding practices they did for the other reptiles, that they might have rescued the lizard with the best of intentions in mind but didn't know how to really deal with the species in general. Everything else they had was much smaller, bearded dragons and various geckos, or a snake.
95% of people who own a sav, don't know how to care for it.

-Mike

[NennaMeerkat]

Its really upsetting to think such a great lizard gets so mistreated...unintentionally. They are an awesome species! As much as I would love to have one I know I am not prepared in many of the most important aspects to have one. However I would love to hold one again one day and enjoy one's company like I did at the zoo.

[infernalis]

It was like... the 10th topic on the list, not even second page..


95% of people who own a sav, don't know how to care for it.

-Mike

Yes, and the ones who are willing to learn I commend, the ones who stick their fingers in their ears and go "nananana can't hear you" piss me off.

[Reptile_Reptile]

It was like... the 10th topic on the list, not even
lol fine then.

[fflamingmoe]

I just hope you guy's don't think it's me with 2 accounts.
This (moe) guy you talk about gives me a bad name:(

[infernalis]

I just hope you guy's don't think it's me with 2 accounts.
This (moe) guy you talk about gives me a bad name:(


No worries friend...

A. Shaw communications (Provider) Vernon


B. Cogeco Cable Company (Provider) North bay

Latitude and Longitude withheld - close but not close enough to worry about it.

so I can say it's certainly not coming from the same house. ;)

[fflamingmoe]

Thank god for IP's lol:)

[crocdoc]

I haven't been on this forum in ages, but something caught my eye that made me want to check out some of the posts here. This thread in particular. Thank you for this - It's hilarious.

What caught my eye and lead me here was the original poster of this thread starting a thread elsewhere, commenting on it. The title was "we're doomed" and the content was roughly that he couldn't understand why people here didn't want to accept his world view when it came to monitors. Moe (O.P. Moe, not fflamingmoe!), if you're still reading this forum, I have nothing against you and you're probably a nice guy (the part that isn't the spoiled child running off in a huff, anyway), but you're making the same mistake a lot of relative newbies make. You've been keeping monitors for, what, a year, maybe year and a half now? Your total belief system about monitors is based on reading the posts of other people that you have come to believe are the world experts because...well... because they keep telling you that they are, in every second post. You've adopted that obsequious attitude, typical of newbies, that see them as a demi-gods because you haven't been keeping monitors long enough to know better.

What's worse, you've automatically accepted their world view on science and, particularly, on monitor field biologists. I am willing to bet that you've never read a single paper on wild monitors, published in a recognised scientific journal, never mind met a field biologist that worked with monitors, in your life. That doesn't stop you from just knowing science is bad because, well, because someone told you so. I'm going to double that bet and add on to it that you've never seen a monitor in the wild in your life, either. But you just know what they eat and how they behave because someone (who doesn't live within tens of thousands of kilometres of a wild monitor) told you. Now you can't understand why other people will not accept your world view on monitors, given your...well, we can't really call it experience... maybe your 'experience' reading the rants of someone else.

Really?

You keep saying that you want people to keep an open mind, yet there is no one in the monitor-keeping world more closed minded than the sycophantic crowd of that 'other' forum you frequent. You immediately adopt their 'my way or the highway' attitude and can't understand why people don't follow suit.

Here's a suggestion: Maybe you should wait until you've actually achieved something before expecting people to follow your advice. Then you could offer genuine advice, based on first hand experience rather than on second hand, regurgitated guff. They may still choose not to accept it at face value, but that's their choice and at least then you'd really have tried. At the moment you're just one of a million online 'experts' that goes from forum to forum giving advice based on things you've read or heard, rather than from actual experience and, frankly (pun intended), there are already too many of those.

End of rant.

Wait, not quite:

In one thread you mentioned SteeveB (jobi):KS is a lot of BS,but Jobi and FR(Frank Retes) are there to bring sanity.
I almost had to change my shorts after reading that, I laughed so hard. You really are new to the forums, aren't you. Try this one day: ask Jobi which species of monitors he's bred and ask to see photos of hatching eggs (not forest dragons, but monitors. Ones he's bred, not just imported). If he insists on sending the images privately (as he will), via email, agree. Then keep the emails, because you'll get endless hours of entertainment reading them later, over and over. Try it and you'll see what I'm talking about, and once the emails start arriving re-read your above statement about either of those two bringing sanity (of all things!) to a forum and you'll understand why reading that statement almost made me have to change my shorts.