Fish!

[mistersprinkles]

Breeding Pair, German Map Angel
(Pterophylum scalare)

My Sexy angelfish video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=100_4608.mp4)
Swimming around




http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/ANG.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_4731.jpg

leaf shopping video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=100_4739.mp4)
Courting/cleaning leaves for spawning

Honduran Red Point Convict
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/sdsds.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_4512.jpg
(Archocentrus nigrofasciatus)



Bristlenose Plecostomus
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_4695.jpg
(Ancistrus sp{?})

[mistersprinkles]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/untitled-2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5123.jpg
Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5007.jpg
Anubias 1705 (plant)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5059.jpg
Common cory
(Corydoras aeneus)

Pseudotropheus acei (no common name)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5780.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5809.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5861.jpg

[mistersprinkles]

Same fish (growing)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_6006.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5993.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_6002.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_5981.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_6252.jpg


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_6251.jpg
Adult

[mistersprinkles]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_6387.jpg
I don't remember what these are called right now... ... ...

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/100_6385.jpg
Metriaclima barlowi/Labidochromis caeruleus X

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/SNALE2.jpg
Trumpet snail and Assassin snail together

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/saj-1.jpg

SAJ.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=SAJ.mp4)

CCCC.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=CCCC.mp4)
Archocentrus cross

[mistersprinkles]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/DSCF4927.jpg
Tanganyikan Goby

Movie_0001-3.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0001-3.mp4)
courting

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/DSCF4975.jpg
Paracyprichromis nigripinnis

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/DSCF5303.jpg
Cherry shrimp

Movie.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie.mp4)
Puntius odessa

[mistersprinkles]

The fish I couldn't remember the name of is Othopharynx lithobates

[belovedboas]

Beautiful fish my friend. I have a few parrot fish which are a type of siclid but that's about it!! never quite got into fish keeping:) I do find it quite amazing how beautiful some tanks are setup though:)

[mistersprinkles]

Parrot's are a cichlid hybrid between a couple of different cichlids. It's not an actual fish it's man made. Red devil x severum. They've crossed in flowerhorn and convict cichlid now and the resulting 'jellybean parrot' is fertile so they don't have to make them in test tubes like they used to.

[belovedboas]

I was just saying i own a few lmao:)

[mistersprinkles]

I was just giving you background info :)

[Aaron_S]

Nice fish. I really dig the cichlids and the rams!

My partner and I have a 55 gallon tank with 4 frontosa's and 4 yellow labs. It also harbours 3 cory cats, a gold algae eater and a clown loach. A couple of zebra snails as well.

Our 5 gallon has some assassin snails and a zebra snail with a large number of guppies and endlers and guppy endler hybrids.

My daughter has a 20 gallon with giant danios, a pearl danio, dwarf fire gourami, clown loach, 4 cory cats and some guppy/endler hybrids.

We also have a 10 gallon with a single tiger barb. He was beat up with an old red tail black shark tank mate so he's by himself until he's better.

[mistersprinkles]

Nice fish. I really dig the cichlids and the rams!

My partner and I have a 55 gallon tank with 4 frontosa's and 4 yellow labs. It also harbours 3 cory cats, a gold algae eater and a clown loach. A couple of zebra snails as well.



That is horribly wrong for so many reasons. You're keeping the equivalent of a bearded dragon and a GTP together.

Frontosa= pH > 8 gH > 9 temp 79

Clown Loach pH < 7 (CRITICAL) gH < 6 (CRITICAL) temp 85 (SUPER critical)

Your clown loaches will never reach full size and will eventually peter out and die. Frontosas stunt and do not live their full life span unless they are kept in a minimum six foot by two foot tank. Ideally eight foot by 18" as they can exceed 12". Clownloaches, similarly, can exceed 12".

Also, cory cats should not be kept in groups smaller than 12 for their psychological wellbeing.

What you need to do is remove everything that's incompatible with what you want to keep, and clown loach and frontosa are not on your option list for that size tank. I know a lot of people say otherwise. I gave a lecture at a zoo and worked in the aquarium section in a petshop and was also good friends with a renowned expert on loaches who has written several books (Martin Thoene, Clown loaches, TFH). I know what I'm talking about. In any event you also have to lose the golden algae eater by when it hits full size as it will become aggressive to other fish. They eat other fish's skin when they are adults, not algae.

Humane options:

Keep the yellow labs, build a tank around them, add other compatible fish, like another group of mbuna from lake malawi. You want to go to Cichlid-Forum.com (http://www.cichlidforum.com) and post in the lake malawi section. Good choices would be several different male peacocks and a couple of synodontis catfish.

Option B:

Keep corys. Add 10 more. Build a south american tank. Add a pair of angel fish, a trio of rams, and a group of tetras.


In Toronto if you want to go south american you want to talk to Harold at Menagerie Petshop. Parliament and Wellesley. If you want to go African Cichlids, talk to Mike at Finatics on Kennedy south of Eglinton. Harold can also help you set up the proper environment to grow plants if you're interested.

My daughter has a 20 gallon with giant danios, a pearl danio, dwarf fire gourami, clown loach, 4 cory cats and some guppy/endler hybrids.

danios are too fast for gouramis and frighten them. Clown loaches in a 20 gallon is cruel. This setup would get you kicked off a lot of fish forums if you even mentioned it. You REALLY need to get it together because the setups you have are not conducive to good health or calm animals. I've bred more fish than most people have kept and many people consider me an expert. You're not doing nice things for your fish.

This is the proper way to keep fish

Movie_0007.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0007.mp4)

You put things together that don't bother eachother.

Movie_0001-2.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0001-2.mp4)

Here at 34 seconds, the baby nanoluteus gets too close to the black paradise, and the black paradise wiggles to inform it, and the nano leans away in submission. That's the most 'fighting' you should ever see.

Movie_0009.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0009.mp4)

Here at 20 seconds, the bristlenose pleco has had enough of the nano stealing it's food, and opens its tail as a threat. Since the fish both speak the same language, the nano understands and goes away. Fish speak several distinct languages both in clicks which are inaudible to humans and with body language. A malawi cichlid's 'get lost or I will hurt you' is a convict cichlids 'i want to mate'. This causes MANY beat up convicts when they are kept in malawi tanks.

Sometimes things outright kill eachother. Assassins won't kill trumpets. They will kill ramshorns. If I put ramshorn snails in there that'd be irresponsible.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Parrot's are a cichlid hybrid between a couple of different cichlids. It's not an actual fish it's man made. Red devil x severum. They've crossed in flowerhorn and convict cichlid now and the resulting 'jellybean parrot' is fertile so they don't have to make them in test tubes like they used to.
um i think if its a fish its a fish no matter how it came to be.
beautiful fish tho thanks for sharing

[mistersprinkles]

um i think if its a fish its a fish no matter how it came to be.
beautiful fish tho thanks for sharing

Fish hobbyists will jump down your throat for supporting hybrid fish. We're losing pure blood very quickly.

While reptile hobbyists have always sought to propogate new color morphs and hybrids, it has always been frowned upon in fish. There are a lot of reasons for this- many more fish kept in captivity than reptiles are extinct or extant in the wild making the aquisition of new pure blood impossible. We're losing the cherry barb, for example. It is extinct in the wild and once the gene pool peters out it'll be gone forever.

[Reptile_Reptile]

im not supporting anything just saying its still a fish man made or not haha. why cant fish just be reintroduced into the wild not trying to debate jw

[mistersprinkles]

im not supporting anything just saying its still a fish man made or not haha. why cant fish just be reintroduced into the wild not trying to debate jw

You can't reintroduce a fish into a parking lot. Habitat loss is the main factor :(.

[Reptile_Reptile]

ah that sucks

[mistersprinkles]

Yup. The whole fish trade thing is messed up. Some fish only exist in the wild BECAUSE of it. Dwarf Gouramis in Bangladesh would all have been eaten or died from having pollution dumped into their water ways. The only reason they are purposely preserved is that it's worth a lot more to net half a million of them a month and sell them to pet wholesalers...

Ultra double edged sword... Some parts of the Xingu river in south america are preserved because there's a kind of small catfish there that goes for $100-$300 a pop. You can net 1000 of them and have a very very nice payday. Same thing goes for discus. People will pay $100 a go for a fish that you can easily catch hundreds of with a surface net and a canoe.

Is taking animals from the wild for 'use' as pets right? No. Is paving over a pond right?
The whole thing is really messed up.

[Aaron_S]

That is horribly wrong for so many reasons. You're keeping the equivalent of a bearded dragon and a GTP together.

Frontosa= pH > 8 gH > 9 temp 79

Clown Loach pH < 7 (CRITICAL) gH < 6 (CRITICAL) temp 85 (SUPER critical)

Your clown loaches will never reach full size and will eventually peter out and die. Frontosas stunt and do not live their full life span unless they are kept in a minimum six foot by two foot tank. Ideally eight foot by 18" as they can exceed 12". Clownloaches, similarly, can exceed 12".

Also, cory cats should not be kept in groups smaller than 12 for their psychological wellbeing.

What you need to do is remove everything that's incompatible with what you want to keep, and clown loach and frontosa are not on your option list for that size tank. I know a lot of people say otherwise. I gave a lecture at a zoo and worked in the aquarium section in a petshop and was also good friends with a renowned expert on loaches who has written several books (Martin Thoene, Clown loaches, TFH). I know what I'm talking about. In any event you also have to lose the golden algae eater by when it hits full size as it will become aggressive to other fish. They eat other fish's skin when they are adults, not algae.

Humane options:

Keep the yellow labs, build a tank around them, add other compatible fish, like another group of mbuna from lake malawi. You want to go to Cichlid-Forum.com (http://www.cichlidforum.com) and post in the lake malawi section. Good choices would be several different male peacocks and a couple of synodontis catfish.

Option B:

Keep corys. Add 10 more. Build a south american tank. Add a pair of angel fish, a trio of rams, and a group of tetras.


In Toronto if you want to go south american you want to talk to Harold at Menagerie Petshop. Parliament and Wellesley. If you want to go African Cichlids, talk to Mike at Finatics on Kennedy south of Eglinton. Harold can also help you set up the proper environment to grow plants if you're interested.

My daughter has a 20 gallon with giant danios, a pearl danio, dwarf fire gourami, clown loach, 4 cory cats and some guppy/endler hybrids.

danios are too fast for gouramis and frighten them. Clown loaches in a 20 gallon is cruel. This setup would get you kicked off a lot of fish forums if you even mentioned it. You REALLY need to get it together because the setups you have are not conducive to good health or calm animals. I've bred more fish than most people have kept and many people consider me an expert. You're not doing nice things for your fish.

This is the proper way to keep fish

Movie_0007.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0007.mp4)

You put things together that don't bother eachother.

Movie_0001-2.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0001-2.mp4)

Here at 34 seconds, the baby nanoluteus gets too close to the black paradise, and the black paradise wiggles to inform it, and the nano leans away in submission. That's the most 'fighting' you should ever see.

Movie_0009.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket (http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/111olbap/?action=view&current=Movie_0009.mp4)

Here at 20 seconds, the bristlenose pleco has had enough of the nano stealing it's food, and opens its tail as a threat. Since the fish both speak the same language, the nano understands and goes away. Fish speak several distinct languages both in clicks which are inaudible to humans and with body language. A malawi cichlid's 'get lost or I will hurt you' is a convict cichlids 'i want to mate'. This causes MANY beat up convicts when they are kept in malawi tanks.

Sometimes things outright kill eachother. Assassins won't kill trumpets. They will kill ramshorns. If I put ramshorn snails in there that'd be irresponsible.



First of all don't be a wimp and say "you're not attacking me" and not to get offended when you rightfully are attacking me by calling me inhumane.

Secondly, you just out right came attacking me. You didn't ask questions first. For an expert to just come out and NOT ask a question first tells me you aren't one. You do not know how old my fish are, how long I've kept them this way or if they are being moved to larger digs or not. I have done plenty of research and spoke openly on cichlid forums before I put my tanks together.

I know how large frontosa's get. I know how much room they need. I also know about cory cats as well as clown loaches.I know they'll be moved up in tank size or out soon. I also know how big my gold algae eater will get and what happens when it is that large. I have done my homework as well as worked in multiple pet shops tending to the aquariums.

I know my 20 gallon is a jumble currently but they don't harm one another. I don't see a stress problem with my danios and gourami. They do quite well together. I actually find the gourami to be one of the more voracious feeders. I am not trying to breed these fish. I would keep pair specific tanks if I was.

Now if I kept rainbow fish in there with the gourami I could see a problem occuring but the danios aren't nuts. They swim fast but not to the point of stressing out my gourami.

Thank you for your time. I understand your feelings towards my fish but I do take care of them and put their needs ahead. Next time though be sure to ask a question or two first.

My parameters are fine, my temps are fine and all is good.
By the way no fish needs an EXACT temp or PH level. It can differ by a point or two. We're creating an ecosystem here and there will be tiny fluctuations in them.

[Aaron_S]

Yup. The whole fish trade thing is messed up. Some fish only exist in the wild BECAUSE of it. Dwarf Gouramis in Bangladesh would all have been eaten or died from having pollution dumped into their water ways. The only reason they are purposely preserved is that it's worth a lot more to net half a million of them a month and sell them to pet wholesalers...

Ultra double edged sword... Some parts of the Xingu river in south america are preserved because there's a kind of small catfish there that goes for $100-$300 a pop. You can net 1000 of them and have a very very nice payday. Same thing goes for discus. People will pay $100 a go for a fish that you can easily catch hundreds of with a surface net and a canoe.

Is taking animals from the wild for 'use' as pets right? No. Is paving over a pond right?
The whole thing is really messed up.

The whole fish trade is messed up but you do know as long as someone buys these animals it will always be this way. People in those area do this to put food on their table. Not because they like the destruction. Always remember that if you were starving and trying to make a living you'd do some outstanding things that others may not like too.

[stephanbakir]

Nice, i used to breed discus and ciclids, great fun.

[mistersprinkles]

First of all don't be a wimp and say "you're not attacking me" and not to get offended when you rightfully are attacking me by calling me inhumane.

Secondly, you just out right came attacking me. You didn't ask questions first. For an expert to just come out and NOT ask a question first tells me you aren't one. You do not know how old my fish are, how long I've kept them this way or if they are being moved to larger digs or not. I have done plenty of research and spoke openly on cichlid forums before I put my tanks together.

I know how large frontosa's get. I know how much room they need. I also know about cory cats as well as clown loaches.I know they'll be moved up in tank size or out soon. I also know how big my gold algae eater will get and what happens when it is that large. I have done my homework as well as worked in multiple pet shops tending to the aquariums.

I know my 20 gallon is a jumble currently but they don't harm one another. I don't see a stress problem with my danios and gourami. They do quite well together. I actually find the gourami to be one of the more voracious feeders. I am not trying to breed these fish. I would keep pair specific tanks if I was.

Now if I kept rainbow fish in there with the gourami I could see a problem occuring but the danios aren't nuts. They swim fast but not to the point of stressing out my gourami.

Thank you for your time. I understand your feelings towards my fish but I do take care of them and put their needs ahead. Next time though be sure to ask a question or two first.

My parameters are fine, my temps are fine and all is good.
By the way no fish needs an EXACT temp or PH level. It can differ by a point or two. We're creating an ecosystem here and there will be tiny fluctuations in them.

Actually I was polite but you've called me a wimp so now I will insult you back. You're a moron. And you're getting your back up. I'm sure you've had your fish for a long time. A lot of animals can survive incorrect conditions for a very long time. And yes, you can keep clown loaches at 80, and at low oxygen levels in an alkaline pH, but they will never reach full size, nor will they live their proper life span.

I didn't need to ask a question. Your post had idiot written all over it and so does this one. I feel for your fish, and for your tiny fragile ego. If you say you have a dog that you never walk, do I need to ask questions? No, I already have enough information to tell you're screwing up here.

BTW if you knew your rear end from your elbow you'd know an aquarium is NOT an ecosystem. It is a very basic scaffolding for one with many, many parts missing- especially nitrogen export and carbon production. Why do you think you do water changes? Said ecosystem can't even maintain it's own mineral balance or nitrogen balance.

Your clowns aren't in that african tank until they're bigger, they're in there until they die at the same size they are now. I'd put money on it.

[mistersprinkles]

The whole fish trade is messed up but you do know as long as someone buys these animals it will always be this way. People in those area do this to put food on their table. Not because they like the destruction. Always remember that if you were starving and trying to make a living you'd do some outstanding things that others may not like too.

Ya. I know. That's what I'm saying. There's something very wrong with people like you.
"I keep my pet tiger in a closet but it's ok it's been alive on hamburger for three years". And, by the way, you can work in a pet shop and be a moron, I see it every day. I've gotten people fired for the amount of incorrect info they were spouting because I was friends with the manager. Go ask Harold and Mike if Pablo knows what he's talking about. They'll tell you I'm a prick but they won't tell you I don't know my stuff.

I never said your gourami wouldn't feed. If it's a male, does it have a huge bubblenest that it always maintains perfectly? If not, it's stressed. Odds are it's male as most of the blood/flame honey gouramis sold and all of the red dwarfs sold are male in the pet trade.

The only reason nobody else is crying bloody murder is that they don't know fish. If you had a cornsnake in a shoe box, which you essentially do, they'd be on you. I know a LOT of people who keep clown loaches with africans. Those of us who know better call those people morons and try to educate them but they insist that their archaic 1980's misinformation is correct. Do your africans let your clowns nap on their side during the day for hours on end like they'd like to? Is your substrate soft enough for the clowns to burrow without hurting themselves? Are all their barbels long and perfect? What? No? That's not even taking into account that they NEED acidic water and higher temps than tanganyikans can tolerate. I don't mean need to live until October, I mean need to live until 2030 like they're supposed to and hit 12" like they're supposed to.

Loaches Online - Community Edition &mdash; Loaches Online (http://www.loaches.com) go tell that forum what you've got. They'll say worse than I have. You read the part where I said I was friends with someone who WROTE A BOOK on clown loaches, ya? Who do you think knows more about them, me or you? Go on loaches.com MT-ED is Martin Thoene who wrote said book. Enjoy.

[Aaron_S]

Buddy you didn't even touch the fact about doing my homework. You continue to say things about the friends you have. I have friends too who know a lot about snakes but I don't use their names to back up my claims. I don't care who your friends are.

You still assume that I'm keeping this tank this way until everything dies. You assume wrong. I keep my fish for a period of time until I move them into a larger aquarium or until they reach the point that I can no longer house them, in such I then sell said fish. Again though you just want to sit on your high horse and claim I'm a moron but yet you still didn't ask a question. You didn't even touch on the fact that I actually test my water. You simply point out the parts that make you look entirely right. I am vigilant when it comes to my water quality.

My cichlids actually don't bother the clown loach. It lays around like you said, does have long barbels for it's size and I keep my fish on soft enough substrate. Again I did my research. I don't plan on keeping this tank until 2030.


In regards to the tiger in a closet comment I actually was talking strictly about the fish trade in your other post. You continued on about my first post with a wholly different quote. I don't see where I said that the fish trade in other countries where these fish are captured is so that a family can eat for a night has anything to do with your tiger analogy.

[marvelfreak]

You read the part where I said I was friends with someone who WROTE A BOOK on clown loaches, ya? Who do you think knows more about them, me or you?
I said your friend. Just because your friend wrote a book about them doesn't mean you a expert. :rolleyes:

[mistersprinkles]

Buddy you didn't even touch the fact about doing my homework. You continue to say things about the friends you have. I have friends too who know a lot about snakes but I don't use their names to back up my claims. I don't care who your friends are.

You still assume that I'm keeping this tank this way until everything dies. You assume wrong. I keep my fish for a period of time until I move them into a larger aquarium or until they reach the point that I can no longer house them, in such I then sell said fish. Again though you just want to sit on your high horse and claim I'm a moron but yet you still didn't ask a question. You didn't even touch on the fact that I actually test my water. You simply point out the parts that make you look entirely right. I am vigilant when it comes to my water quality.

My cichlids actually don't bother the clown loach. It lays around like you said, does have long barbels for it's size and I keep my fish on soft enough substrate. Again I did my research. I don't plan on keeping this tank until 2030.


In regards to the tiger in a closet comment I actually was talking strictly about the fish trade in your other post. You continued on about my first post with a wholly different quote. I don't see where I said that the fish trade in other countries where these fish are captured is so that a family can eat for a night has anything to do with your tiger analogy.

Oh wow you have ONE of the most social fish there is. That's smart. So even worse. You're the one missing the point- you can test all you want, the fish need incompatible parameters. You screw everyone at 7.2pH or screw the loaches at 8.4 and keep the Fronts happy or screw the fronts at 6.7 and keep the clowns happy.

Truly, sir, you are a tool. I didn't doubt you were growing the fish out to sell them. That doesn't make it any better.

I'm mentioning the people I know because I know actual accredited experts, and ya that backs up what I'm saying. If you told me what I was doing with my snake was utterly wrong and you knew Philippe de Vosjoli, who wrote the ball python manual, and my sname was a ball python, you're damn right I'd listen to you. I'M not the idiot.

[mistersprinkles]

I said your friend. Just because your friend wrote a book about them doesn't mean you a expert. :rolleyes:

What planet are you people from? Seriously. :no:. You don't think I've soaked up a lot of knowledge from reading the guy's book and spending hours with him talking about fish and seeing his setups? Are you for real?

There's something wrong with you guys I'm done with this thread. Some people are so stupid they actually get offended when someone tells them 'you're doing it wrong'. Absolutely pathetic.

And ya, Aaron, what ARE your water parameters? Gimme your pH/gH or TDS/kH/temp as well as your nH3/4 No2/No3 (I can already hear the 'i don't have a full test kit' but I'll wait) and what filtration and heating you're using. And send me a photo of your lone clown loach I guarantee you I can pick out a dozen things wrong with it, but you don't care about its well being, do you? I'd like to add that were I still working at a pet store, if you told me what you had and didn't listen to advice, I would refuse to sell you any live animal. You must have worked at a PJs or Big Als to be so pig headed.

[marvelfreak]

What planet are you people from? Seriously. :no:. You don't think I've soaked up a lot of knowledge from reading the guy's book and spending hours with him talking about fish and seeing his setups? Are you for real?

There's something wrong with you guys I'm done with this thread. Some people are so stupid they actually get offended when someone tells them 'you're doing it wrong'. Absolutely pathetic.

Kind of like you every time some one says something you don't agree with. I read threw most of your posts and for some one who knows it all i don't why you waste your time here. Oh wait yes i do you just want to tell everyone there wrong. :rolleyes:

[mistersprinkles]

One's hobby is not a high horse nor is it something to rub in peoples face. At no point have I done that except here because somebody needs to be straightened out urgently.

I do NOT know everything, or anywhere NEAR everything.

I know a lot about: colubrids
I know a significant amout about: Pythons, boas, aquatic turtles

Significantly deficient in knowledge on: land turtles, tortoises, most lizards (excluding most geckos), amphibians, crocodilians,

I know freshwater fish hands down. I'm here to help people with things I do know, and ask for help with things I don't. Have you seen my bearded dragon or cricket powder threads? I don't know much about them do I?

That's how a forum works man. I know stuff, you know stuff, we exchange, we both know more. If one of us tells the other that they're doing something wrong, then it needs to be looked into.

I submit for both of your consideration that if I didn't absolutely know I was right and know that what this guy is doing is cruel, I wouldn't word everything so strongly and risk getting kicked off of a forum. The clown loaches are being borderline tortured, hands down. I'm sorry if that doesn't work for you. I can tell you the sky is green if you want but it won't change anything. It is what it is.

[mistersprinkles]

Kind of like you every time some one says something you don't agree with.

:rolleyes: You know you can't find me a single example outside this thread where I'm snippity to anybody.

[Lankyrob]

The usual thing with this forum is that if you think something is not quite right you ask questions and gently guide the person towardthe right way, having read all your posts you do seem to have habit of jumping in with opinion very quickly and feel the need to back up everything you say with book references or friends opinions. I comes across as slightly aggressive and as if you expect peopleto take your single opinion as irrefutable fact.

From reading the posts where you are asking questions i DONT believe that this is your intention however typing text and reading it back with none of the non verbal communication that is picked up face to face can often cause this to happen.

Assuming that you arent intending to irritate other members can i humbly suggest that you read through what you have typed before posting, with the thought that others may not read it in the wayit is intended.

[mistersprinkles]

The usual thing with this forum is that if you think something is not quite right you ask questions and gently guide the person towardthe right way, having read all your posts you do seem to have habit of jumping in with opinion very quickly and feel the need to back up everything you say with book references or friends opinions. I comes across as slightly aggressive and as if you expect peopleto take your single opinion as irrefutable fact.


I understand what you're saying. I will try to say things with more consideration to that effect. As far as irrefutable fact though, and book references.. I don't recall ever having used them outside this thread, and all of my facts here are irrefutable. I know way more about freshwater fish than reptiles. :freakedout:

[marvelfreak]

:rolleyes: You know you can't find me a single example outside this thread where I'm snippity to anybody.
Your right! I was just messing with you trying to light the mood. The whole reason i posted :rolleyes: at the end of each post. Guess i have a wrap sense of humor. Sorry if i offend you. Btw you have some really nice looking fish. :)


Now this thread got me craving fish sticks. Anyone got some tarter sauce? Just kidding.:) (dam this wrap sense of humor)

[Reptile_Reptile]

you like fish sticks?

[marvelfreak]

you like fish sticks?
OMG i love them. Fish sticks and french fries the poor mans version of Fish and Chips. :) Well not the actual fish sticks, but the battered fish fillets. The frozen one you just pop in the oven.

[Reptile_Reptile]

So you're a gay fish?

[marvelfreak]

So you're a gay fish?
No! I am having a blond moment, because i don't get it.

[infernalis]

nothing wrong with happy fish...

[infernalis]

I sure hope we have the name calling out of the way and have moved on now....

[Jay]

Didn't know it was so technical keeping fish.

[infernalis]

Yes keeping fish can be frustrating to learn properly.

I never wanted fish, had an Oscar "dropped in my lap" and had to learn only to lose her to Hole in the head disease.

Just as we strive to meet the temperature and humidity requirements of our snakes, Temperatures, PH, and many other factors have to be monitored and maintained with fish.

Any bozo can keep a goldfish in a bowl, after all they are just pretty carp and could live in a sewer.

move on to more advanced fish and anyone who has never done it before could easily be discouraged to the point of giving up...

that's why there is always an abundance of free fish tanks on Craig's list...

[HDreptiles]

that's why there is always an abundance of free fish tanks on Craig's list...

I love free fish tanks on that site.

I keep fish as well. It is not rocket science like that guy made it out to be. I have had many tanks and many fish breed for me without testing my water every other day. If there is something wrong in the tank, the fish will tell you. If that guys fish where stressed, he would know. As far as that other gentleman calling him names and saying that what he is saying is a must, that is uncalled for. IME hobbyists use many different methods in keeping fish. The key is to make the fish happy and not stressed. A lot of the fish we buy for the hobby are tank bred, and can handle a whole range of water parameters that we thought they should not be able to. It is part of getting captive bred. If that guys fish are happy and healthy, there is no need to tell him he is doing everything wrong. If something happens and he needs help, then help him out, but don't berate him for how he keeps his fish.

[mistersprinkles]

No! I am having a blond moment, because i don't get it.

It's a joke. "You like Fish sticks?"

Yes

"So you're a gay fish?"

FISH'S TICKS

FISH'S DICKS

GAY FISH :rolleyes:

[mistersprinkles]

If that guys fish are happy and healthy, there is no need to tell him he is doing everything wrong. If something happens and he needs help, then help him out, but don't berate him for how he keeps his fish.

You're missing the point because you don't know the species being discussed. No clown loach, anywhere in the hobby, has been captive bred. They are being 'enduced' in small pockets but it is still highly experimental. You have a 100% definitely wild caught fish that lives in groups of dozens to hundreds of individuals in very warm water with tonnes of oxygen which is acidic by itself with fish that live in signifiantly cooler, alkaline water. It's not supposed to be done. That's not even considering the ones in the 20G which is so so so below the minimum tank size for even a 2" clown loach.

I haven't even gotten into the totally different diet and clown loaches like to eat more, slower vs frontosas meaning they can't get the right amount of food without stress. It's so wrong. Fish shouldn't fight over food if you're keeping the right mix.

Btw you have some really nice looking fish. :)



Thanks that's nice of you :crazy2:

[HDreptiles]

You're missing the point because you don't know the species being discussed. No clown loach, anywhere in the hobby, has been captive bred. They are being 'enduced' in small pockets but it is still highly experimental. You have a 100% definitely wild caught fish that lives in groups of dozens to hundreds of individuals in very warm water with tonnes of oxygen which is acidic by itself with fish that live in signifiantly cooler, alkaline water. It's not supposed to be done. That's not even considering the ones in the 20G which is so so so below the minimum tank size for even a 2" clown loach.

I haven't even gotten into the totally different diet and clown loaches like to eat more, slower vs frontosas meaning they can't get the right amount of food without stress. It's so wrong. Fish shouldn't fight over food if you're keeping the right mix.

Ok, I didn't know that. But I still say, if he wants to do it his way, you should let him without trying to beat some other way into his head. If he winds up having problems and asks for help, then give it to him, but don't ram it down his throat right off the bat. That is all I am saying.

[HDreptiles]

And you do have very pretty fish BTW.

[mistersprinkles]

Ok, I didn't know that. But I still say, if he wants to do it his way, you should let him without trying to beat some other way into his head. If he winds up having problems and asks for help, then give it to him, but don't ram it down his throat right off the bat. That is all I am saying.

If this were ffishh.com instead of ssnakess you might not think that way :)
What if those fish could walk and stick to a ceiling and had giant eyes. I wouldn't be going overboard. I just didn't want to let what I knew was an unhealthy environment go by un commented on.

[HDreptiles]

If this were ffishh.com instead of ssnakess you might not think that way :)
What if those fish could walk and stick to a ceiling and had giant eyes. I wouldn't be going overboard. I just didn't want to let what I knew was an unhealthy environment go by un commented on.

I completely understand that, I was just saying that maybe you should tone it back a little bit, that's all. If the guy has problems and asks for help, by all means give it to him as straight as possible, but if not, let him know in a much more subdued way. I know how it goes with stuff like that. You get very passionate about what you do, and I am not going to hold that against you. I myself have done it to people. It happens.

On another note, are your tanks planted or are they fake plants? I was under the impression the cichlids tear live plants up.

[belovedboas]

Ya no need to call childish names :)

[infernalis]

so we let it rest and move forward.... ;)

[mistersprinkles]

On another note, are your tanks planted or are they fake plants? I was under the impression the cichlids tear live plants up.

Depends on the fish/plant combo. Mbuna eat plants. Angelfish actually protect and clean plants they intend to spawn on.

[infernalis]

When I had my Oscar, I gave up trying to decorate her tank, she shoved all the gravel to one end constantly, stirred up the tank with her tail.. just wrecked everything all the time. so I kept her in a bare tank.

[HDreptiles]

When I had my Oscar, I gave up trying to decorate her tank, she shoved all the gravel to one end constantly, stirred up the tank with her tail.. just wrecked everything all the time. so I kept her in a bare tank.

Most of the cichlid tanks I have seen are all rockwork. They do look nice like that though.

[HDreptiles]

Depends on the fish/plant combo. Mbuna eat plants. Angelfish actually protect and clean plants they intend to spawn on.

What size tank are your angels in? I have a 45 gallon that I was contemplating doing an angel tank.

[Aaron_S]

Pablo this thread has calmed down since I went out last night so I'm not really going to continue it.

I will say though you can't back up your knowledge by saying you worked in a pet store and then say it doesn't mean a thing because I worked in one. You can't have it both ways.

I will get a pic of my clown loach as well as use my test kit. The tank resides with my girlfriend so when I'm over next I'll be sure to do it. I do have a full test kit, I might not have one test but I have the majority. I like how you still assume things.

Lastly, I went ahead and spoke to my friends, and as long as my fish aren't stressed, by lack of eating is a usual sign, then everything is currently fine. My clown loach has adapted to his surroundings. He's fine in the current water quality. I also ensure that it eats. You may think I overlook everything and simply drop in food but again you assume I don't know anything when I've told you otherwise. Stop doing that.

[mistersprinkles]

Pablo this thread has calmed down since I went out last night so I'm not really going to continue it.

I will say though you can't back up your knowledge by saying you worked in a pet store and then say it doesn't mean a thing because I worked in one. You can't have it both ways.

I will get a pic of my clown loach as well as use my test kit. The tank resides with my girlfriend so when I'm over next I'll be sure to do it. I do have a full test kit, I might not have one test but I have the majority. I like how you still assume things.

Lastly, I went ahead and spoke to my friends, and as long as my fish aren't stressed, by lack of eating is a usual sign, then everything is currently fine. My clown loach has adapted to his surroundings. He's fine in the current water quality. I also ensure that it eats. You may think I overlook everything and simply drop in food but again you assume I don't know anything when I've told you otherwise. Stop doing that.


No Aaron, I was right. About everything. YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR WATER man. You can NOT call yourself a fish keeper. If you can tell me your temp within 1F your pH within 1 10th your gH/kH and nitrate FROM MEMORY, you, sir, are not a fish keeper. You're some guy with fish.

I'm glad I don't live in your aquarium.

Example:

TANK I HAD IN 2006!!

pH 6.8
kH 5
gH 5
temp 82.5
MAX nitrate 10PPM
(reverse osmosis water + kent R O right + kent kH booster)

TANK I HAD IN 2008

pH 8.2
kH 11
gH 12
temp 79.5F
MAX nitrate 15PPM
(Toronto tap + Seachem malawi buffer)

It goes without saying I never had detectable ammonia or nitrite. I know what my water was four years ago dude. My angels spawned every FIVE days like clockwork.

You can say you're a guy with fish, but don't you dare insult my superior knowledge claiming that you know what you're doing. You know fish need water and food. That's about it as far as I can see. The rest is full of misinformation gleamed from idiots you should not have listened to and your fish are suffering. Don't post a pic of that clown loach dude because I can already see it in my head and i will SNAAAAP.

You test your water every 7 days bare minimum. If you can tell me what it was the last 4 times and today and have a proper mix of fish you'll be moving int he right direction.

And I can back up my info by the fact that aquarium stores have called ME for advice. The most respected person in the city on freshwater (Harold) thinks I know a LOT, I've serviced $30 000+ aquariums for major corporations in their boardrooms, and I talked some sense into the Toronto zoo's aquarium system. Know why they have clown loaches in the malaysian pavilion in the 20 foot tank now? Because Martin Thoene and I TOLD them to. We also convinced them to shut down their cave tetra tank which was very badly taken care of and even to re-do their seahorse and jellyfish tanks which were not conducive to happy animals.

;)

But I must not be a respected source of knowledge on fish.

I'd be saying all this nicely but you called me a wimp so all of this has been said with malice. I also find it offensive that you can turn your nose up at me and somehow assume you have my level of knowledge when I assure you the snake folks who've been following along could tell otherwise with no foreknowledge.

Ok. Now I feel I've gotten the prick out of my system, I'm willing to try to help you nicely again, if you're willing to take it.

You have a couple of species of very sensitive fish, and I do want to help you keep them healthy if you're interested. So get me that info. Don't show me the clown loach because I know its not gonna look good and those are very smart puppy like fish and I wont be able to deal with it.

You should also, given that you have sensitive fish, be familiar with Toronto (and more importantly your local area)s water distribution practices. Things like- do you live in an area with mostly lead piping (can be very bad), do you live on the proper Toronto supply or the Markham or Pickering supplies (different water). Do you know that in spring the city flushes the pipes with an insane amount of chlorine for a couple of weeks and you must use 2-3x the water conditioner? Do you know that keeping a hardwater fish in overly soft water or vice versa is bad for them because their skin is actually geared toward optimum health in X-Y water hardness and do you maintain your hardness by testing and adjusting as necessary?

WOULD you be willing to get a 250 gallon tank for your frontosas and a 200-250 for your clown loaches (at least five as adults ideally more)?

Fish hobbyists will jump down your throat for supporting hybrid fish. We're losing pure blood very quickly.


I should mention I do have 2 species of hybrid fish in those pictures. I bought those as 10mm fry and they were not labeled as hybrids. Once they were large enough to be sure I did return them. Hybrid fish = bad.

[infernalis]

Keep it civil people....

[mistersprinkles]

Lastly, I went ahead and spoke to my friends, and as long as my fish aren't stressed, by lack of eating is a usual sign, then everything is currently fine. My clown loach has adapted to his surroundings. He's fine in the current water quality. I also ensure that it eats. You may think I overlook everything and simply drop in food but again you assume I don't know anything when I've told you otherwise. Stop doing that.

Does your loach click? It's not happy. Not eating is a final stage of stress. Your 'friends' are not knowledgeable. I'm sorry.

Keeping any loach by itself is wrong. Keeping clown loaches alone is cruel. Keeping a clown loach alone with fish that it doesn't like or understand and in the wrong temperature, oxygen level, and pH is very cruel. Anybody backing you up here automatically resigns any kind of expertise whatsoever as far as I'm concerned.

When clown loaches are happy you will hear them click. To you, to eachother, when eating. It is loud- like glass cracking. I don't mean the sound they make when they are ripping pieces of food off. It is much louder than that.

Have you joined loaches.com?

It makes sense that the people on the BMW forum will know more about your 325i than the people at the general car forum, no? Think about it man.
Please understand that I'm more concerned about the well being of your clown loaches than your ego. This is the only responsible way for me to address this as far as I'm concerned.
Just like if people thought you were keeping your snake abusively and tried to correct you and you got your back up, those people would flip too and be more concerned with your pet than your feelings. Once they're being taken care of the way they need to be we can all calm down more.

[mistersprinkles]

What size tank are your angels in? I have a 45 gallon that I was contemplating doing an angel tank.

Hey sorry I missed this I'll PM you too incase you miss the post. Those were in a 55. In a 45 standard that's fine for breeding Angels. Is this the 3 feet by 1 foot by about 1.5 or 2 feet tall 45?

All you need is a large sword plant or anubias for them to be comfortable, and a nice big log helps too, for something to do. They like to peck at things, especially the ones with more wild blood.

You should be ok with normal tap water. I don't know what Chicago tap is hardness and pH wise though. Try to get wild angels are angels that still have wild blood. If it doesn't have red eyes, you don't want it. They behave like a door stop, not like angels.

If you want to breed them, get a few adults, wait for a pair to form, then remove the other fish. They will stay paired forever if you get a good pair. You can usually keep corys with the angels without losing the eggs but plecos will find the eggs at night. If you don't care about saving eggs you can keep them with any non threatening fish like most tetras, a trio of rams, stuff like that

[mistersprinkles]

Also my recommended diet for angels commercial diet wise if you're still reading :)-

60% New Life Spectrum discus (amino acids and lots of omega 3. Angels have a lot of fatty tissue.

30% dainichi veggie deluxe or veggie FX (contains a lot of montmiliorite clay and beneficial cultures. The high fiber level is good for digestion and there are a lot of natural color enhancers. As you can't keep angels in the sun in Chicago you'll need caretenoids and friends to keep your colors bright.

for the other 10%, a mixture of mysis shrimp and baby guppies or mosquito fish is best. The easiest way to do this is to simply keep the angels with a group of mosquito fish. They're too small to eat their eggs and they breed like rabbits. All you need is a planted clump in a corner. The adults wont be harassed only the babies. Feeding live food is a bit iffy as far as I'm concerned conscience wise but my lizard eats crickets...

Whatever you do, don't let your angelfish manipulate you. They're very smart. They want their food presoaked to soften, they only want food that tastes good, they want you to keep out of their half of the tank when they pair, etc etc. They will try to manipulate you by refusing to eat infront of you unless you soften their food, turning their back when they see a container of food they don't like, and so on. Don't fall for it. They're like parrots. Once they know they have you wrapped around their fin youll stay there. The female in the angel pair on page 1 only ate Omega 1 shrimp pellets, and only if they were pre softened. Anything else had to be whole baby shrimp or fish.