humane feeder killing

[TeaNinja]

i was thinking of using c02 but not only do i not have a tote and a tank and valve and everything but i only need to freeze like 5 rats.
what's the most humane way to kill rats if you only need a few?

[Jenn_06]

hit them behind the neck with something. or you can make your own CO2 with baking powder.

[EvaS]

Dry ice works too.
Buy maybe a pound and put it in a small container with a little water and lots of holes punched in it(you dont want the rats to touch the ice).Put this container in something bigger like a cooler(a disposable styrofoam cooler works).Put in rats and put on the lid.

I use an old paintball tank with CO2 and I have a tube that screws on it.I then use a small sterlite bin as my "death chamber"..

[stephanbakir]

Breaking necks is easy for small numbers do some research on the proper way, you line the spine up by pulling the head up and pull (this isnt exactly how to do it, look it up for more accurate info)

[shaunyboy]

i hold their body's and in 1 sharp fast movement hit where the back of the head joins the neck on the edge of a table,shelf anything with a hard straight edge this instantly breaks the neck

imo much faster and more humane than suffocation or freezing

cheers shaun

[mykee]

CO2.
Either in it's solid form ("dry ice")
or
in it's gas form; a CO2 chamber.
Here's mine:
CO2 Chamber (http://www.strictlyballs.ca/co2chamber.htm)

[bo2as]

i hold their body's and in 1 sharp fast movement hit where the back of the head joins the neck on the edge of a table,shelf anything with a hard straight edge this instantly breaks the neck

imo much faster and more humane than suffocation or freezing

cheers shaun
i do the same. if its doen properly its instant.. they dont even know whats happening

[shaunyboy]

i do the same. if its doen properly its instant.. they dont even know whats happening

thats why i choose this method mate its not nice the first few times you do it but i just keep telling myself the snakes have to eat

[EvaS]

I tried smacking a mouse once.I was so worried Id do it wrong and it would suffer.So I put it in a bag and smacked it so hard it broke the bag and splattered all over the wall....Disgusting...
Im such a sissy....

[BlindOne]

imo much faster and more humane than suffocation or freezing

Yup, same here. One hard whack to the head - all over with

[belovedboas]

me too:) it's quick

[Damion930]

Co2=suffication disorentation and burning lungs maybe it would be humane with a lil N2o added first. Efficient yes humane eh. Cervical dislocation gets my vote. Place rat on surface it can grip hold tail firmly allowing the rat to stretch out firmly place small dowl or pencil at base of skull pull firmly on tail push forward with dowl.

[bo2as]

I tried smacking a mouse once.I was so worried Id do it wrong and it would suffer.So I put it in a bag and smacked it so hard it broke the bag and splattered all over the wall....Disgusting...
Im such a sissy....
the trick is allignment.. choose a nice edge (not rounded) like the corner of a wall. u have to hit the mouse/rat at the base of the head where the neck is.. grab it by the tail (about 1inch from the tip.. if u grab any closer to the tip u risk getting a peice of tail in ur hands and a pissed off rat) aim and..well u know the rest.. no need to hit hard.. that way it breaks the neck and the rodent dies instantly. it avoids the twitching and suffering... sad to say that it took me a few rodents to master it :( ive also seen ppl break the neck by laying a rod (screw driver or tongs) at the neck and pulling the rodent so that the neck breaks. good luck! lol its never pleasant to see the little guys suffer!

[Lankyrob]

Have never had to kill rats but done more than my fair share of chickens, turkeys and rabbits. I have always used the hold grip/twist and snap method to break the neck and sever the spinal cord - would this not work for rats too?

[EvaS]

I dont know what all the fuss with CO2 is.Ive had rats eat while being euthed.
They dont like the smell or the sound if you put it in fast but if you leak it in they kinda pass out.Its still better then what animals do to each other.

[mykee]

I agree, I've easily killed over 10,000 rats with my CO2 chamber, and not once have I witnessed what looks like pain. Very calm, very quick. AND I don't have to "get my hands dirty" like with other methods.

[Jenn_06]

you have to do it slow when using CO2, if you just fill up the tub and replacing the O2 too fast yes its going to be painful.

[infernalis]

I agree, I've easily killed over 10,000 rats with my CO2 chamber, and not once have I witnessed what looks like pain. Very calm, very quick. AND I don't have to "get my hands dirty" like with other methods.

And how else you going to put down 47 rat pups at once?? or pinkies for feeding babies and Juvies??

My corn snake eats hopper rats, you can gas 50-60 hopper rats at once, that's a lot of little necks to break.:eek:

[bo2as]

i gues for mass euthenisation the gas is better... but for some one like me who kills 3 rats a week i dont ming the quick neck breaks.. plus i dont know where to find the stuff to make c02 lol

[Lankyrob]

I wasnt suggesting having to break 100's of necks but the OP is talking about 5 - there are going to be set up costs for using CO2 whereas your hands are "free" - if you are doing lots at a time then the chamber is an obvious choice.

[Jay]

Im lucky, thanks to Mkyee. When i first joined i was looking for a place to get bulk frozen rats, He gave me a website and bam they were so cheap im living in an apartment atm so no breeding rats for me. When i did tho i also used gas

[Damion930]

Sorry I guess that came across wrong I've experienced co2 poisoning first hand was not a pleasant experience lucky I didn't go all the way out and got to oxygen. I still think gassing with n2o would be a far better way to go out lol

[Damion930]

It is most likely not as bad to a rat and breaking a hundred plus necks would be a pain and thers a good chance a few would go wrong.

[stephanbakir]

I guess the method needs to be tailored to the situation,imsure if you had time you could great 10,000 necks. but most dont,and with the younger animals,you might pull off a head isntead of just breaking a neck

[zer213]

I tried smacking a mouse once.I was so worried Id do it wrong and it would suffer.So I put it in a bag and smacked it so hard it broke the bag and splattered all over the wall....Disgusting...
Im such a sissy....

HAHAHA! Not laughing at you but reminded me of a story. I went fishing with a friend of mine and his girlfriend. Only thing we caught was a catfish, so she wanted to throw it back in favor of being humane. Well the hook got stuck way down its throat and we opted to kill it mercifully. I told him to hit it on the head with a piece of board. He didnt have the stomach to do it (actually he didnt want to look like a brute in front of his new GF) sooooo I decided to handle it myself.

I took one good swing, not knowing my strength and the head flew 20ft in one direction and the body slammed into his GF. No lie, she became a vegitarian from then on out. She also never talked to me again.

[stephanbakir]

Owies, they always say "Vegetarian" an old Indian word for a bad fisherman.

[TeaNinja]

lol my friends GF is a vegetarian and i love to tease her about how delicious the meat i'm always eating is. she will bend her vegetarian rules sometimes and eat some tri tip, and i always tell her, "they tortured this cow EXTRA, thats why it tastes so good!" lol

[stephanbakir]

I'd get slapped for saying the word vegetarian at the dinner table lol.

[TCS-bot]

I've used the co2 keyboard cleaners in the past for small animals.
Works well, and without having to source a larger co2 cylinder that may be to big for just a few animals.

[mistersprinkles]

I dont know what all the fuss with CO2 is.Ive had rats eat while being euthed.
They dont like the smell or the sound if you put it in fast but if you leak it in they kinda pass out.Its still better then what animals do to each other.

Agreed. You can introduce enough co2 that it just causes the animal to pass out. More equivalent to getting dizzy and fainting. Not exactly painful. It dies in its sleep essentially. I'd say this is more humane than WHACK. Using laughing gas would be better, but unless you're a dentist, good luck with that.

[mistersprinkles]

I've used the co2 keyboard cleaners in the past for small animals.
Works well, and without having to source a larger co2 cylinder that may be to big for just a few animals.

Those are no longer CO2. It's trifluoroethane. It has been for at least four or five years. That's not something you want in the animal's system when you feed it to your snake. It's essentially fluorene (fluoride) gas. At high enough concentrations you're going to cause skeletal fluorosis in your snake. Look it up (75-37-6 CAS). The reason the animal dies is that the gas displaces oxygen and the actual fluoride component at that high a concentration basically causes brain damage.

It won't go away as it is not metabolized and remains persistently in the environment. If the animal breathes it, that fluorene becomes part of the animal and then the snake.

[stephanbakir]

Those are no longer CO2. It's trifluoroethane. It has been for at least four or five years. That's not something you want in the animal's system when you feed it to your snake. It's essentially fluorene (fluoride) gas. At high enough concentrations you're going to cause skeletal fluorosis in your snake. Look it up (75-37-6 CAS). The reason the animal dies is that the gas displaces oxygen and the actual fluoride component at that high a concentration basically causes brain damage.

It won't go away as it is not metabolized and remains persistently in the environment. If the animal breathes it, that fluorene becomes part of the animal and then the snake.

Scary way to go:( wont be trying this anytime soon.

[TeaNinja]

it was pretty sad to watch the snake kill the rats i bred, but it was WAY more sad having to pin 3 of them down with a screwdriver and break their neck/spines. i could tell it was instant and probably painless, but it still makes me sad nonetheless. =/

for my next point. next week when i go to thaw one of the frozen pups, how do i heat it up? put it under hot water?

[Lankyrob]

I defrost mine overnight (about 4 or 5 hours) in a glass bowl at room temp and then place the bowl on a hot radiator to warm all the prey items up - when it comes to feed time i press the skull of the prey against the radiator for a few seconds to really intensify the heat in the head and then feed.

[TeaNinja]

with water in the bowl?

[Lankyrob]

No - no water just radiant heat - i think people use hot/warm water when they want to go from frozen to feeding quickly but i treat the snakes food as i would treat my own, i would never quickly defrost a steak in warm water in order for me to eat it, i would defrost it overnight to eat the following day - my snakes have the same process for their food.

[Jay]

and do not use hot water or microwave both very messy lol mine are tossed in a bucket of could water then warmed with luke warm water and then i put them on a rad

[mistersprinkles]

it was pretty sad to watch the snake kill the rats i bred, but it was WAY more sad having to pin 3 of them down with a screwdriver and break their neck/spines. i could tell it was instant and probably painless, but it still makes me sad nonetheless. =/

for my next point. next week when i go to thaw one of the frozen pups, how do i heat it up? put it under hot water?

Don't freeze rats unless you have to. When you freeze and dethaw them a lot of cells rupture and it makes for inferior nutrition. Kill, feed immediately when possible.

[sassy_snake_lady]

I breed mice for my snakes.

I killed my first a few days ago and used the whacking method and fed straight to a corn snake.

[Lankyrob]

Don't freeze rats unless you have to. When you freeze and dethaw them a lot of cells rupture and it makes for inferior nutrition. Kill, feed immediately when possible.

This point comes up again and again with no proof that a frozen prey item is significantly different in terms of nutrition than a live or pre killed item, have you got anything to prove this one way or another?

[Jay]

Don't freeze rats unless you have to. When you freeze and dethaw them a lot of cells rupture and it makes for inferior nutrition. Kill, feed immediately when possible.

I have not heard about that care to explain ?

[infernalis]

this may be true of frozen vegetables, however...

I am well aware of the physics behind water expansion and crystal formation during the freezing process, however, even though a fair amount of the cells will have "damage" from freezing, any loss of proteins and calcium is negligible, certainly not enough to call frozen feeders "inferior nutrition"

If that was the case, then companies like Rodent Pro have shipped out millions of inferior feeder animals?? several thousand of them have shipped to me.. my snakes are all doing fine??

[TeaNinja]

Don't freeze rats unless you have to. When you freeze and dethaw them a lot of cells rupture and it makes for inferior nutrition. Kill, feed immediately when possible.

i'm aware. the only reason i'm freezing them instead of feeding pups to the snake live is because they will outgrow the snake VERY quickly. i've never fed f/t in my life until now. i've heard the blood freezes and loses all its good nutrients. other then that, i've never heard ANY solid evidence of that being true.

and i don't have a radiator! lol

[TCS-bot]

Those are no longer CO2. It's trifluoroethane. It has been for at least four or five years.....

Yup, I'm aware of that which is why I said in the past. :)
Not sure that any duster blowers or whatever you wish to call them will be co2 anymore.

[sickvenom]

for my next point. next week when i go to thaw one of the frozen pups, how do i heat it up? put it under hot water?

put in a zip lock bag and soak in warm water. i'm pretty lucky as all of my snakes will eat cold f/t food.

[infernalis]

I just take them out of the freezer about an hour before I intend to feed snakes.

[stephanbakir]

Don't freeze rats unless you have to. When you freeze and dethaw them a lot of cells rupture and it makes for inferior nutrition. Kill, feed immediately when possible.

Another reason for freezing is to kill all the little nasties that MIGHT be living inside the animal, 30 days in the freezer just about kills them all.