newbie snakes

[thomas1123]

Hey guys im wanting to get a pet snake and i was thinking of getting a hognose snake. would you guys recomend them for a begginer snake? i have an exo-terra tank that is 36x18x18 that i got from a friend for free. if you guys do recomend them, can y'all give me any tips on them?
Thanks

[shaunyboy]

hello and welcome

there's a few hoggie keeper's on here so give it time and i'm sure someone will help you out mate

its only carpets i keep only thing i can tell you about hoggie's is they are very very cute little fellow's with their little upturned nose's

cheers shaun

[stephanbakir]

They puff up and look adorable.

[blindfireak40]

Hey guys im wanting to get a pet snake and i was thinking of getting a hognose snake. would you guys recomend them for a begginer snake? i have an exo-terra tank that is 36x18x18 that i got from a friend for free. if you guys do recomend them, can y'all give me any tips on them?
Thanks

That is plenty large enough for a Hognose, even an adult one. You should probably make sure to have plenty of ground cover so he'll feel secure; lots of snakes don't care much for wide-open spaces.

Issues I know about include getting them to eat, but if you buy from a reputable breeder that shouldn't be a problem. As for them being a good beginner snake, I don't know about that, but there are Hoggie people on there that will be better able to advise.

[thomas1123]

ok thank you i was thinking about buying one offline at bhb enterprises unless you know any breeders in florida

[marvelfreak]

Hello and welcome!

[NennaMeerkat]

Yo! Hognose owner here :) Be more than happy to help ya out. Do you know what gallon size that tank is cause I am not familiar with measurements. I know for myself I have a 20 gallon and that is plenty big even for a full grown one. So if you got that you are doing good.

As for hoggies themselves they are quite the character and don't need an overly complex setup. I have just an under tank heater on a thermostat and the ambient temperature of my house this time of year (anywhere from 75-80 degrees) works great. During the winter I had on a low wattage heat lamp just as a precaution. Others have told me to up the temperature but my breeder said she keeps her hogs at a 75-85 degree temp all year round. They require hides, one on the cool side and one on the hot side. Water bowl shallow but big enough that the snake can soak in if it wants. Ground cover should be something like reptile safe wood chips...but I don't know what it is called off hand. If you really want to know let me know and I can find out.

What I have found to be the major concern is eating. Some baby hogs can be very picky eaters. Had one earlier this year I had to give back to the breeder because she wouldn't eat. Got another from her that eats great. But that is the only problem I have seen with them...ever. When they do eat and are full grown they never take anything larger than a full grown mouse (maybe two if you have a little piggy)

As for attitudes they are pretty docile. Babies can be little actors and hiss and flatten their heads, but that is just cause they are little and insecure. Honestly if the snake doesn't put on a show I would worry about it LOL Mine likes to wait until I pick her up then poo in my hands followed by a good amount of squirming that smears it.

Females are larger than males in both width and length.

[thomas1123]

thamks for the replys i think the tanki is a 40 gal. its really nice tank imo lol
can i put a baby in here without him getting scared?
any tips on how to help the eat pimkis?
and can i put it on repti bark?
thanks for the info!

[NennaMeerkat]

thamks for the replys i think the tanki is a 40 gal. its really nice tank imo lol
can i put a baby in here without him getting scared?
any tips on how to help the eat pimkis?
and can i put it on repti bark?
thanks for the info!

If you get a baby you may considering blocking off half the tank until it is a bit bigger. Or you will need a larger area of heat/cold as well as more hides. Easier to just half the tank for a while...even if it looks a bit silly.

If you get the snake from a reputable breeder (only research will help with that) then you need to ask said breeder about when they are feeding the snake, what they are feeding the snake, and how they are feeding the snake. My own little girl has to be put in the original container she was given in and that being placed in an empty butter tub with the butter tub's lid on. If you don't have that lid on she doesn't eat. She eats 2 good sized pinkies (she is still to small for fuzzies) once a week...which is either Monday or Tuesday depending on when her last poo was.

As long as you don't feed the snake in the tank you can put anything down that DOESNT hold moisture. Hognose are not needing a humid environment and generally do better with a more dry one (with water bowl accessible). So you could consider anything loose that the snake can bury in...cause hoggies LOVE to burrow.

I use "Sani-Chips" (http://www.chicagoreptile.net/crh-cms/images/stories/Sani-Chips.jpg) because it is absorbent to hold poo really well, doesn't smell, and allows my snake to burrow easily. There is no chance of harm to my snake since she does not eat in her tank.


Keep the questions coming!!

[thomas1123]

ok well i went to the pet store today and bought this repti bark stuff but i just read the post that said dont get anything that hold humidity. so should i take it back and get a different bedding? could i use sand or would my snake get impaction? i wouldnt be feeding my snake in the cage also. are they fairly easy to tame down? my friend has a kingsnake that always bites him and i dont wont a snake that will bite me everytime i try to hold it. lol how long does it take for them to get full grown? i think i will be getting a baby or juvenile from the website. would you recomend buying a snake of a breeders website? thank you for the answers i will post some more when i can think of more lol

[NennaMeerkat]

ok well i went to the pet store today and bought this repti bark stuff but i just read the post that said dont get anything that hold humidity. so should i take it back and get a different bedding? could i use sand or would my snake get impaction?

I would take it back and go get what I posted in my previous post. The "Sani-Chips". Any competent pet store will have them. I don't like sand personally and have had to many various bad experiences with it...so I tend to veer away from its use.

are they fairly easy to tame down? my friend has a kingsnake that always bites him and i dont wont a snake that will bite me everytime i try to hold it.

Keep in mind that every individual snake is different...so just because his kingsnake bites doesn't mean every kingsnake will. That said however I will say that hoggies are pretty mild mannered and they are more likely to just bluff at you (hiss, flatten head/neck, poop, strike without opening mouth) before right out striking you. If you feel nervous around the snake it will be able to tell. Once you get your snake and you see "attitude problem" then I can help you out from there if need be.

how long does it take for them to get full grown?

Not sure! I have had a baby or adults, never raised one from start to end. But they will do their growing gradually over time and eventually peter off as they get older. Keep in mind hoggies are thicker than they are longer so you generally won't get a long wirey snake like a corn snake or king snake.

would you recomend buying a snake of a breeders website?

It is a personal preference but I like to have a breeder that is nearby. So I would say wait until you can go to a reptile expo or find a breeder nearby. If you end up having a snake that won't eat, or you discover other problems and the breeder isn't nearby...how are you going to contact them to help you with these problems? As I said before I had one that would not eat and ended up having to trade it out with the breeder for the one I have now. If she did not live nearby (about an hour away) how in the world would I have taken care of the problem? Just something to think about.

[infernalis]

I find the average for small colubrids to be 2-3 years from birth to adulthood.

The first year growth is directly proportional to the amount you feed it.

Well really that's true it's whole life, but the first year growth is usually the most rapid, I have seen some that stay smallish and suddenly develop bigger appetites then shoot up after a slower start. but most do the big growth spurt in year one.

[NennaMeerkat]

I find the average for small colubrids to be 2-3 years from birth to adulthood.

The first year growth is directly proportional to the amount you feed it.

Thanks as always...I have learned a lot but that was something I didn't generally know.

[thomas1123]

thanks for the info im going to take the substrate i bought today and take it back tomorrow and try to get

[thomas1123]

thanks im taking my bark back tomorrow and im going to get some sani-chips lol for some reason it posted before i was done lol but is $80.00 a good price for a captive bred male het western hognose? and also what does "het" mean lol is it like a color morph or something? would have to put a heat lamp on my tank? i live in florida and it is fairly warm for almost the whole year. i think the coldest it got here last winter was like 32F lol i know im going to need a heat mat and also i read that you shouldnt put your tank near a window? why is that?

[NennaMeerkat]

Yay more questions :)

$80.00 a good price for a captive bred male het western hognose

Yeah I would say so, though keep in mind males are not as big as females. For my female I paid 75.00 Remember also that if you are getting it online from a breeder that would have to mail you the snake it will cost extra! And you won't have the benefit of a breeder nearby in case something is wrong with the snake.

and also what does "het" mean lol is it like a color morph or something?

Not sure. Guess would be it is a carrier of special colors/morph. Wherever you are seeing the information from needs to have a picture of your snake that you want. Then that will show you what, if anything, is different about your snake. Considering the price...probably just a carrier of special colors/morph.

would have to put a heat lamp on my tank? i live in florida and it is fairly warm for almost the whole year. i think the coldest it got here last winter was like 32F lol i know im going to need a heat mat

You will need a mat under your tank for the "hot side" of it. They come in different sizes for different sized tanks. If you split the tank in half (which for a 40 gallon I suggest you do) then you will want to get a 10 gallon sized mat. If you don't split the tank then you want a 20 gallon sized mat. You are also going to need a in tank thermometer that will show you what the temp is in the tank. Many different kinds out there. But basically you stick it to the inside of the tank in the middle (if you split the tank in half then put it in the middle of the half you are using). Since you like in Fl. the only time you are gonna need a heat lamp is in the winter. I live in Texas and I use one as a precaution. Ceramic lamp with a low wattage bulb.

Oh! And the under the tank mat will need to be on a "dimmer switch" so you can control how hot it is. Those mats get really hot and can burn a snake if you don't watch it. Basically if you can put your hand on the glass where the mat is under for 10 seconds without any discomfort then it should be okay for your snake. If you feel uncomfortable lower the "dimmer switch" and try the hand test again in about 10 min.


also i read that you shouldnt put your tank near a window? why is that?

This goes for anything ANYTHING in a tank. The sun will make your tank into a microwave basically and will literally bake whatever is inside of it. So no window sill sitting for any tank. In fact I wouldn't have the tank anywhere that gets direct sunlight. Don't wanna risk that hot FL. sun right?

[Max713]

Just a heads up, that tank comes out to 50.4225 gallons ;)


I know nothing about hoggies, but I don't think I would consider a snake that is known to be a finicky eater, as a beginner snake. But that's just me, like I said I don't know hoggies. Cute little guys though!
I wish you the best of luck with whatever direction you choose to go!

[NennaMeerkat]

Just a heads up, that tank comes out to 50.4225 gallons ;)


I know nothing about hoggies, but I don't think I would consider a snake that is known to be a finicky eater, as a beginner snake. But that's just me, like I said I don't know hoggies. Cute little guys though!
I wish you the best of luck with whatever direction you choose to go!

Honestly it is the only off thing about them...and even that doesn't happen all THAT often. Just something you have to be aware of if you get one.

And if that tank is 50 gallons he is DEFIANTLY gonna have to cut it in half for a baby/juvenile hognose! Cause that is far far to large.

[blindfireak40]

You could probably split it in half permanently and get 2 hoggies with a tank that size, could you not? Doesn't seem like they'd need anything bigger than a 20 Long.

[NennaMeerkat]

You could probably split it in half permanently and get 2 hoggies with a tank that size, could you not? Doesn't seem like they'd need anything bigger than a 20 Long.

Ooooo now I wish I had a 50 gallon LOL Cause you could EASILY do that!

[thomas1123]

wow i didnt know that it was 50g lol i think im going to get a ten gallon and put him in that until he gets bigger. i would like two have to but i dont think i would have enough time to hold them both and tame them down if they are mean babies and they would both be males so wouldnt they fight? and the 50g tank i would be putting them in has to front doors that open out side ways so i think it would look awkward just being halfed off lol but idk ill think about it. that is a pretty good idea about getting two and just halfing off the middle and they would both have 25gs to themselves lol how would i half the tank? lol

[mistersprinkles]

Any snake should be kept with a hot spot and a cool spot and a hide on either. Arboreal snakes are different but you're not considering those. You'll need a heating pad and/or a ceramic heating element for the snake, depending on the species and setup. You'll want to get decent digital thermometer and hygrometers as well. Analog is ok but not as accurate.

I wouldn't buy your first snake on the internet. Buy from a local breeder. There's always somebody on craigslist or your local buy and sell. Or go to a reputable pet shop or reptile show.

I don't recommend hognose as a beginner snake. It's a bit unpredictable and fragile and can go off food if mistreated accidentally. When I say unpredictable I don't mean that it's going to bite, not that it would matter as no snake that size even registers on the "i felt that" meter when it strikes-- but because they can be very odd. They go from calmer than a doorknob to flighty to posturing to calm again for no visible reason sometimes. It could fall, etc. You want a more reliably tempered sort of even keel snake that isn't likely to go off food.

Good beginner snakes:

Garter snake (lots of really nice ones don't write it off)
California king snake
Corn snake

Less good beginner snakes:

Ball Python
Hognose
Green snake
Milk snake

Garters and corns-- garters especially, are extremely forgiving of mistakes. When I go to a new kind of pet, whatever it is, bird, fish, whatever, I pick the hardiest easiest to care for species. I wouldn't buy a 1000cc 4 cylinder motorcycle as a first bike. :).

[belovedboas]

I agree with Mister sprinkles accept for the kingsnake part...I have owned quite a few kings and they tend to be quite mean if not handled frequently. Also not a good idea to keep near other snakes as they tend to stay aggressive..:)

[mistersprinkles]

Oh yeah they're horrible 'holding' snakes. They're more 'Fer lookin' at' snakes. I didn't know that was something that we were taking into consideration. I was just going on ease of care, setup, forgiving of mistakes, affordable... But yes if you want to pet it, that's not a good call. They tend to bite. I would have included a bunch of ratsnakes but didn't because they'll even bite you when you clean their cage and don't try to pick them up. The green snake, also, objects strongly to human contact and will try to escape. Again though great for looking at. I'd look more at the corn snake if you want to hold it. Or a garter. There are a lot of nice ones. They become surprisingly tame- even if they start out mean. They just get bored of being mean once they realize you're not there to eat them. There are albino, fully black, and red striped garters. Check em out.

[Max713]

Just curious, why don't you think balls make good first snakes? They are most definitely the most common python, and have to be in the top 5 most popular of all snakes.
I've read in some cases they can be picky eaters, but usually remedied pretty easily. I often recommend a ball as a good first time snake, just curious on you take on them?

*Sorry for the slight derailment*

[belovedboas]

some kings will bite while just changing there water....but yes care wise very simple in my opinion:) and balls are a good beginner snake too just a lil more work in the husbandry department If done properly.

[NennaMeerkat]

I don't recommend hognose as a beginner snake. It's a bit unpredictable and fragile and can go off food if mistreated accidentally. When I say unpredictable I don't mean that it's going to bite, not that it would matter as no snake that size even registers on the "i felt that" meter when it strikes-- but because they can be very odd. They go from calmer than a doorknob to flighty to posturing to calm again for no visible reason sometimes. It could fall, etc. You want a more reliably tempered sort of even keel snake that isn't likely to go off food.

I REALLY have to disagree! I have never had a hognose that would be as unpredictable as you are describing! The reason most people get hoggies are because they are generally mellow and VERY predictable. I would personally like to ask you where you got this information or if it is personal extensive experience.

This guy as well as most other beginner individuals could handle a hognose with no problem. Once you get their environment setup then in all honesty they are not a problem. True you CAN have them go off feed but that goes for any snake if mishandled. If you treat them like any other snake and follow the directions of the breeder then you will be fine.

And this is coming from a hognose owner as well as one who has helped care for several in the past.


As quoted from TheHognosesnake.co.uk- care sheet, description, breeding and more (http://www.thehognosesnake.co.uk/hognose_snake_care_sheet.htm)

They have a relatively docile temperament and can be easily tamed. They are energetic and inquisitive and make very interesting pets. They are easy and safe to handle, growing to a manageable size and make a good choice for people who are new to snake keeping.

Hognose Snakes are quite active snakes and will appreciate time outside the vivarium to exercise. Hognoses have been known to be a bit huffy, but regular handling should calm your Hognose Snake down in time. They are quite fast little movers, so care should be taken to ensure you do not drop them while being handled.

Nothing about being "unpredictable" in there and that is a site dedicated to specifically hognose snakes.

[mistersprinkles]

I don't recommend hognose as a beginner snake. It's a bit unpredictable and fragile and can go off food if mistreated accidentally. When I say unpredictable I don't mean that it's going to bite, not that it would matter as no snake that size even registers on the "i felt that" meter when it strikes-- but because they can be very odd. They go from calmer than a doorknob to flighty to posturing to calm again for no visible reason sometimes. It could fall, etc. You want a more reliably tempered sort of even keel snake that isn't likely to go off food.

I REALLY have to disagree! I have never had a hognose that would be as unpredictable as you are describing! The reason most people get hoggies are because they are generally mellow and VERY predictable. I would personally like to ask you where you got this information or if it is personal extensive experience.

This guy as well as most other beginner individuals could handle a hognose with no problem. Once you get their environment setup then in all honesty they are not a problem. True you CAN have them go off feed but that goes for any snake if mishandled. If you treat them like any other snake and follow the directions of the breeder then you will be fine.

And this is coming from a hognose owner as well as one who has helped care for several in the past.


As quoted from TheHognosesnake.co.uk- care sheet, description, breeding and more (http://www.thehognosesnake.co.uk/hognose_snake_care_sheet.htm)

They have a relatively docile temperament and can be easily tamed. They are energetic and inquisitive and make very interesting pets. They are easy and safe to handle, growing to a manageable size and make a good choice for people who are new to snake keeping.

Hognose Snakes are quite active snakes and will appreciate time outside the vivarium to exercise. Hognoses have been known to be a bit huffy, but regular handling should calm your Hognose Snake down in time. They are quite fast little movers, so care should be taken to ensure you do not drop them while being handled.

Nothing about being "unpredictable" in there and that is a site dedicated to specifically hognose snakes.

I'm an old person. I may have been keeping hognose back when they were still heavy in wild blood. They were prone to false cobra-ing, going off food, tail rattling, and generally becoming flighty without warning.

As far as BPs not being a good first snake, there are a lot of reasons:

They are clumsy
They are susceptible to mouthrot and breathing issues more so than most colubrids
They have more sensitive skin

All of those things require more careful consideration as to the snakes environment IMO than, say, a garter snake, which is a better first snake. A Ball Python is a third snake IMO.

A rainbow boa would be a fourth, then possibly moving on to arboreal tropicals like green tree pythons as a fifth.

[mistersprinkles]

Just found this thread

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/heterodon/86131-new-hoggie-pics.html#post598701

Looks like some western hognose are still a bit jerky.

[NennaMeerkat]

I'm an old person. I may have been keeping hognose back when they were still heavy in wild blood. They were prone to false cobra-ing, going off food, tail rattling, and generally becoming flighty without warning.

Honestly they might be flighty when they are longer but I don't know any young snake that will just sit completely still when brought from their home. As for the reacting *shrug* in little snakes I see it, in a full grown snake used to being handled they are like any other snake...the more and longer handled the more "tame" they become. That I honestly believe can be said about any snake or any animal for that matter. The younger they are the more "spunky" they will be.

Case in point. My girl I have used to poo and hiss every time I tried to pick her up. That was in February. Now with me carefully handling her once a week she now does not poo or hiss at me at all. True she might try to "escape" me initially but after a few moments she settles down.

It doesn't make them non-beginner snakes though. Non-beginner snakes are ones that are bitey or require a very precise environment ect. Not the fact that they like to move and are "inquisitive" or "adventurous".

[mistersprinkles]

That's exactly why I think it's a bad snake. If you don't know how to predict a snake's movements from years of experience, you shouldn't have a flighty snake. It could jump (they don't jump but you know what I mean) out of your hands when you least expect it and hurt itself.

I really think Garters and Corns are the best 1st snake choices.
Dekay's are beautiful snakes too if you have them where you are. Keep similar to a garter with a little more humidity and attention to hiding spots. Eat worms.

[NennaMeerkat]

That's exactly why I think it's a bad snake. If you don't know how to predict a snake's movements from years of experience, you shouldn't have a flighty snake. It could jump (they don't jump but you know what I mean) out of your hands when you least expect it and hurt itself.

I really think Garters and Corns are the best 1st snake choices.
Dekay's are beautiful snakes too if you have them where you are. Keep similar to a garter with a little more humidity and attention to hiding spots. Eat worms.

If any snake is gonna "jump" from your hands it is a corn! Every corn I have ever seen and owned don't want to sit still they will throw themselves out of your hand no matter the height.

Every hoggie that I have had experience with or owned are what I call "careful". Even at her most startled if I am holding her in a hand she will not throw herself or "jump" from my hand. Same goes for a flat surface that is up high. They don't just throw themselves off they will carefully judge the distance, maybe stick part of their body down, but I have NEVER seen one leave a table high up.

But honestly have you ever OWNED a hoggie to know what you are talking about? I am not trying to be mean but I have owned corns and hoggies, helped a zoo with their own...thus have experience with both. I am not trying to be mean but you are speaking as if you know for a fact that hoggies are what they are. To me unless you have owned at least one you don't really know.

[stephanbakir]

Ball pythons make fantastic starter snakes aswell.

[mistersprinkles]

If any snake is gonna "jump" from your hands it is a corn! Every corn I have ever seen and owned don't want to sit still they will throw themselves out of your hand no matter the height.

Every hoggie that I have had experience with or owned are what I call "careful". Even at her most startled if I am holding her in a hand she will not throw herself or "jump" from my hand. Same goes for a flat surface that is up high. They don't just throw themselves off they will carefully judge the distance, maybe stick part of their body down, but I have NEVER seen one leave a table high up.

But honestly have you ever OWNED a hoggie to know what you are talking about? I am not trying to be mean but I have owned corns and hoggies, helped a zoo with their own...thus have experience with both. I am not trying to be mean but you are speaking as if you know for a fact that hoggies are what they are. To me unless you have owned at least one you don't really know.

I've owned both corns and hognose. My corns were not flighty. Again this is all over 2 decades ago. At this point non-standard corns barely existed and western hognose were only a couple of generations CB, or not at all. The situation at that time was apparently pretty different because I raised a corn from hatchling that was the standard morph and it never once tried to throw itself from my hands. The western hognose I raised was quite the opposite. It also went off food easily.

[NennaMeerkat]

Seems we have had 100% different and opposite happenings with corns and hoggies. Sorry that you have had off experiences with them! Perhaps you would consider looking into them again...even if you don't own one at least go to a reptile expo and find a breeder. Talk to them about the snake and ask to hold one! You will be surprised I think.

[mistersprinkles]

Seems we have had 100% different and opposite happenings with corns and hoggies. Sorry that you have had off experiences with them! Perhaps you would consider looking into them again...even if you don't own one at least go to a reptile expo and find a breeder. Talk to them about the snake and ask to hold one! You will be surprised I think.

I was never really into holding snakes. Handling them is more utilitarian- checkups, feeding, cleaning, etc.

[thomas1123]

soo anyways back to the topic lol my petstore didnt have sani-chips so i just bought some aspen bedding. i also bought a under tank heater, a rock hide, and a water dish i will buy the rest this weekend. i also just found out that one of my friends has a hognose lol he said i would like them. he said once i get it tamed down if its mean it will be pretty calm.

[Jay]

Het. is short for Hetrozygous. Your snakes carries the gene but doesn't show it. What was your hoggie het for

[belovedboas]

cornsnakes can be very flighty..owned many over the years and yes fairly fast paced...not all but most:) dont know nothing about hoggies

[thomas1123]

it's a het albino western hognose snake male

[blindfireak40]

it's a het albino western hognose snake male


So that means that if you breed it to another "het albino" hog, you'll get roughly a quarter albino (homozygous albino), a quarter homozygous normal, and one half het albino in a given clutch.

Breeding it to an albino (homozygous albino) gives you half and half hets and albinos.

Snake Genetics are really very cool! Check out http://iansvivarium.com/cornsnakemorphs.php for some great info on corn snakes, which have really good genetics, especially for learning the way things work.

[NennaMeerkat]

soo anyways back to the topic lol my petstore didnt have sani-chips so i just bought some aspen bedding. i also bought a under tank heater, a rock hide, and a water dish i will buy the rest this weekend. i also just found out that one of my friends has a hognose lol he said i would like them. he said once i get it tamed down if its mean it will be pretty calm.

I am glad that you are still going through! Hope you can find a breeder in your area. If your friend has a hoggie you need to find where he got his! Obviously with a friend that has a hognose they must have gotten it/them from a reputable breeder AND if you have problems of any kind with the snake you not only have us but him as well.

Everything you have gotten so far sounds okay. Gotta ask how big is the under tank mat? And what is the wattage on it...or how hot it gets if it says that. Also remember you need 2 hides. One on the hot side where the mat is and one on the cold side where no heat is.

[thomas1123]

yep i just love the way hoggies look lol but i got a 10g heat pad and its 24 watts. not sure how hot it gets yet but i will be setting up the tank tomorrow morning or this morning lol the bad news is is that my friend got his from petland :/ but that was before he new about reptile breeders and expos and what not lol im planning to get another hide this weekend. any tips on how to tame them down? i know holding them helps taming them down but i know not to hold him the first week i get him/her and not to hold it after feeding. like how often do you hold your hoggie?

[Lankyrob]

With most snakes it is a case of balancing your desire to handle and their stress levels, take it slow once or twice a week and for five or ten minutes at a time at first and then its kinda up to you to judge how the snake is reacting - if it is stressing then stay at once or twice a week for a short time. If it seems relaxed then hold it for slightly longer, noe of our guys are out of their tanks fro more than 15 minutes as a maximum.

[mistersprinkles]

You can technically let some snakes out when they're on patroll with zero stress provided the temperature and environment are right. A ball python under a red night light hunting for food won't be stressed if you gently let it out and let it move around the (dark) room for an hour then put it back. They actually enjoy hunting prey in a bigger space like that but you want to stay out of the way as they're not smart enough to tell you from a rat once they smell it. Picking up a snake that's 'blanked out' under it's rock for the second day in a row is stressful though.

I used to have a Ball python that was more like a pet rock. It was really unstressable. I fed it in the car once.

[NennaMeerkat]

What Lanky said...that is what I would generally have said. So I would go with that since it is what I did with my girl. And she was VERY jumpy when I first got her. Now I get her out about once a week (besides feeding day) with no problem.

[Lankyrob]

You can technically let some snakes out when they're on patroll with zero stress provided the temperature and environment are right. A ball python under a red night light hunting for food won't be stressed if you gently let it out and let it move around the (dark) room for an hour then put it back. They actually enjoy hunting prey in a bigger space like that but you want to stay out of the way as they're not smart enough to tell you from a rat once they smell it. Picking up a snake that's 'blanked out' under it's rock for the second day in a row is stressful though.

I used to have a Ball python that was more like a pet rock. It was really unstressable. I fed it in the car once.

Why would you have the snake in the car and even worse why would you feed it in the car?:crazy2::confused::Wow:

[thomas1123]

ok and my friend is letting me use some of his fake plants out of his lizards cage. should i use them? will the bacteria on them hurt my snake? and how should i clean them? i have this spray called wipe out 1 but i think its only for the glass part of my tank.

[mistersprinkles]

ok and my friend is letting me use some of his fake plants out of his lizards cage. should i use them? will the bacteria on them hurt my snake? and how should i clean them? i have this spray called wipe out 1 but i think its only for the glass part of my tank.

You can use any decor you want as long as it doesn't have sharp or jagged edges, anywhere the snake could get caught or stuck, and is non toxic. Just remember that plastic plants are usually more for you than him and he'll still need places to hide.

Plastic plants from a lizard tank are no problem at all. Just wash them in hot water and give them a good scrub. If you are very concerned add a few drops of bleach to water and scrub them in that. Make sure to rinse them super well after. I would not suggest using any cleaning products anywhere on your enclosure/tank for your reptile. Warm water, isopropyl alcohol, and vinegar are all great non toxic choices that evaporate and leave no dangerous residue. If things get really gross you can take the enclosure to the tub and wash it with a shower head and a mild bleach solution and scrub brush or use the back yard if the enclosure is too bulky to get into a tub easily.

[thomas1123]

thanks for letting me know. i just put the decor and plants in the tub to soak and the cleaning stuff is made by zoo med but i didnt use very much of it and i let it sit out in the sun for about four hours so im sure the it all evaporated. thanks for replying!

[NennaMeerkat]

So far thomas you are doing a good job :) I want to see this setup when you are done.

[thomas1123]

alright i could show it to you if i knew how to upload pictures lol

[mistersprinkles]

photobucket.com create account find picture on hard drive upload it go to your album, highlight the picture, click on the text that has (img)fjeifjeojoiwjoewfjweofjwoifejf(/img) then paste it here.

They let you upload a lot of pictures. I have like 2000 on there and movies too. It's good for linking to forums.

[HDreptiles]

+1 on the photobucket thing. I use it on all the forums I am part of, and it is great.

[thomas1123]

ok thanks ill try to upload some pics tomorrow sometime.

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks thomas :)

[thomas1123]

yep i put a bulb on it and it looks great imo lol. i just have one question. will my heating pad warm up my substrate? i know its supposed to but i just finished setting my tank up and the substarte still seemed cold but ill feel it tomorrow morning and see if its warm or not.
Thanks for the help!

[NennaMeerkat]

Yeah it should warm the substrate just fine. And remember hoggies love to burrow even in their hide...so feel the substrate closer to the pad. If it isn't strong enough you might have to get one that produces more heat OR get a low wattage heat lamp to go along with it. As long as your temps in the tank stay around between 75-85 degrees you will be doing good. You can go a little hotter than 85 but I wouldn't push it much further than that.

Stated from TheHognosesnake.co.uk- care sheet, description, breeding and more (http://www.thehognosesnake.co.uk/hognose_snake_care_sheet.htm)

The ideal temperature for you snake's vivarium is a temperature gradient of room temperature at one end up to around 30-33°C (82-85°F) near the heat source.

Heat mats should only cover between a third and a half of the floor space to allow your snake to thermo-regulate. This heat mat should be regulated by a thermostat to ensure that it does not overheat. Since a heat mat should provide sufficient heat to keep your Hognose snake happy, a basic mat stat, like the Microclimate Ministat 100 or the Habistat Mat Stat, should be appropriate. These thermostats are available from reptile shops and online, are relatively cheap, and will ensure the heat source is regulated at a safe level.

So a mid range temperature of 75 should be acceptable.

[thomas1123]

ok so hot side should be around 85 and cool side should be 70-75? i am not able to check the temp yet because i fogot to get a heater but im going to the petstore today to get one. any suggested types of thermometers?

[NennaMeerkat]

ok so hot side should be around 85 and cool side should be 70-75? i am not able to check the temp yet because i fogot to get a heater but im going to the petstore today to get one. any suggested types of thermometers?

Mid Range (middle of tank) should be around the 70's and cold side shouldn't be to much colder than that.

[thomas1123]

ok thank you ill post some pics later. im going to the petstore now to get the lasy bit of things so far i have frozen pinkies, thermometer, hygrometer, and water dish. i think that is all i need for now!
thanks!

[NennaMeerkat]

Later tonight or if not then tomorrow afternoon I will be posting a picture of my tank since I redid it today. It will give you a good idea of what you will need. Just in case you might have missed something ;) Just have to look for my thread when I get to taking the pics.

[thomas1123]

ok so i just got home about 20 minutes ago and i bought an exo-terra digital themometer and i installed it and everything. well now the thermometer says that it is 100.3 degrees F? i put the thermometer in the hot hide which is under the heating pad and the aspen bedding is a least 2 in. what should i do? are digital themometers really accurate?

[infernalis]

Most digital thermometers I have seen are spot on.

Exotera - oh yeah, that's going to be accurate.

[thomas1123]

ok i checked and now its at 99.1 at hot side hide its about 95 outside yhe hide, 83-85 at midtank, and 73-75 on the cool side. is the hotside temp to hot? and if it is how can i bbring it down?

[infernalis]

That's about 10 degrees too warm.

They sell thermostats that can be used to lower the heater temps a bit.

[thomas1123]

yeah im thinking what i can do is buy reptile carpet and put under my substrate so that way the snake cant get burned and then ill put a dimmer switch on the heating pad and lower the temp to the right temp. should my hide be hotter inside and a cooler temp on the outside? my hide is holding in some heat as you can see. lol

[Damion930]

Don't forget ur king is going to burrow as well so you don't want it to be to hot under the substrate

[mistersprinkles]

Kingsnakes in particular like to get under anything that isn't nailed down. Using a carpet under the shavings won't help. Just go by the temperature of the actual enclosure glass itself over the heat pad. Don't go by the temperature of the shavings on it. If you give them the substrate they're looking for they'll spend a lot of time burrowing anyways so they will pick the temperature they want to be at if you give them the right range.

You're doing just fine though I think your snake will have a long happy life. Your temps are a bit off but you're working to adjust them and that's what matters. Little things like that with a less sensitive snake aren't going to hurt anything. :)

[thomas1123]

ok thank you but im not getting a kingsnake... lol im getting a westewrn hognose lol thanks for the help ill try to get some pics up later tonight

[Damion930]

Lol my bad got my threads mixed up

[thomas1123]

its all good man lol

[sickvenom]

ok thank you but im not getting a kingsnake... lol im getting a westewrn hognose lol thanks for the help ill try to get some pics up later tonight

they burrow too, so the advise is still valid.

[NennaMeerkat]

Yeah you HAVE To get a dimmer switch to help with the temperature. No worries though you go to any Home Depot or other big chain hardware store and get one for fairly cheap. Bought mine online for 12 dollars (without shipping). The Dimmer plugs directly into your heat mat's plug and then into the wall. Using the Dimmer you can safely lower the temps until you get them perfect.

[Lankyrob]

Or get a thermostat and it will adjust temps automatically for you :)

[sickvenom]

Or get a thermostat and it will adjust temps automatically for you :)

+1

i wouldn't trust a dimmer.

[NennaMeerkat]

Dimmer has worked fine for me and my hoggie. Not sure why you wouldn't trust it...unless you are talking about an electrical malfunction and that could happen with anything.

[sickvenom]

i had an issue where the dimmer malfunctioned and the flexwatt got way too hot. now i only use thermostats that will turn off the flexwatt if the temps get too hot.

[NennaMeerkat]

Ah gotcha. Understandable I guess, but after one mishap I wouldn't write off using them completely. *shrugs* Like I said though it is understandable 100% considering the danger that could be posed to your snake.

[sickvenom]

Ah gotcha. Understandable I guess, but after one mishap I wouldn't write off using them completely. *shrugs* Like I said though it is understandable 100% considering the danger that could be posed to your snake.

you also need a stable ambient temperature in your house/room to use a dimmer. that doesn't happen here in phoenix. :)

[thomas1123]

ok well do you know how much the thermometer dimmer is and were to find one?

[sickvenom]

ok well do you know how much the thermometer dimmer is and were to find one?

a thermostat (that's what you want, not a thermometer) and a dimmer switch are two different things.

you can buy a dimmer switch at any big box hardware store. a dimmer switch will let you adjust the constant output of a heat source, but you cannot regulate it to stay within a certain heat range.

you can buy thermostat from various only sources and you can buy the cheap ones at retail pet stores. thermostats will keep the heat in your enclose at a temperature which you set. because of this, they are more expensive than a dimmer switch, but i believe they are safer and more reliable if the air temps in your house aren't consistent. these seem to be the most popular: Spyder Robotics (http://spyderrobotics.com/)

[thomas1123]

ok well i looked at those thermostats and they are kind of expensive. how lonng do they last? are there any cheaper ones?

[sickvenom]

ok well i looked at those thermostats and they are kind of expensive. how lonng do they last?

hard to tell. that's kinda like asking how long your snake will live. i know people who have been running the same thermostats for 10+ years.

are there any cheaper ones?

of course there are, but you get what you pay for. as i mentioned before, you can get cheap ones from large retail pet stores.

[thomas1123]

ok thanks for the information. ill go by some stores and see what kind they have a other stuff like that. Do you have one of these thermostats? Which one of these would you recomend?

[sickvenom]

ok thanks for the information. ill go by some stores and see what kind they have a other stuff like that. Do you have one of these thermostats? Which one of these would you recomend?

if i *had* to recommend one, it would probably be the zilla: Zilla Temperature Controllers at PETCO (http://www.petco.com/product/108340/Zilla-Temperature-Controllers.aspx)

i just read some of the other posts in this thread (didn't have time until now) and you have been given some good advise, and some advise i wouldn't necessarily follow.

first, your size of tank is HUGE for a hog. females get larger than males, so you could get 1 female or split the tank and get 2 males. never house 2 snakes together. because your tank is so big, make sure you have plenty of hides because snakes will get freaked out if they feel stuck out in the open.

make sure your hog has been feeding on f/t mice for at least a few months before you buy it. hogs eat lizards and toads in the wild, so they can be very hard to turn over to mice when they are first born. a lot of shady breeders will sell their neonates even if they aren't feeding, and just tell the buyer they are eating f/t pinkies. a good way around this is to only buy them after they are a few months old.

did you know hogs are venomous? they are.

they burrow, so you should be fine with the substrate you ended up with, just make sure there's a lot in there.

no high humidity requirements, as you've been told, so no need to mist unless shedding is problematic. if that's the case, only mist when in shed.

hogs have a very high metabolism rate. some will eat once a week even when adults. because of this, i like to keep mine in the upper 80s, instead of mid 80s. they don't really care about a cool down period at night, so that's up to you. some people just turn off their heat source at night at it maintains a high enough temp until morning.

hogs are one of the few breeds of snake that will successfully breed without a brumation period! i know you aren't breeding yours right now, but i thought i'd throw that in there for a fun fact.

hogs are GREAT first time snakes, as long as you pay attention to everything i just typed. the feeding thing is most important.

[thomas1123]

Thanks for a short summary of everthing and some new info i didn't know! lol i decided to buy a 10g tank for mine whenever i get him/her. but when it gets to be an adult i will probably move it into the 50g if i dont have another snake in it by then lol i know that they are venomous but isn't it only in their rear fangs and the only way to really get any affects of the venom is if they chew on the bitten place if i remember right. (correct me if im wrong). i have two hide and a water bowl in my tank with a fake plant. i'll check out the Zilla thermostat.
Thanks

[thomas1123]

i just looked at the themostat and what would be better 500 watt or 1000 watt?

[blindfireak40]

It depends on what you need it to control. The heating devices should be labeled based on their Wattages, if the sum of those wattages is less than 500, the 500 watt stat should be sufficient.

[Lankyrob]

We use HAbistat Pulse Proportional Thermostats, bet then we have Ceramioc heat bulbs in all our vivs. That stats cost about £70 and over here we can get the full ceramic set up for around £100.

As previously stated with a dimmer you have no control when the ambient temps change. Lets do an example:

You have ambient temps of 30f so set your dimmer quite high to get good tank temps, its been stable for weeks so you have no worries. You take a weekend away and there is a heatwave, ambient temps go up to 50f - your dimmer is still set high and there is risk of the snake being overheated.

Same scenario but with a thermostat, at 30f the stat keeps the temps high, at 50f the stat puts out less power and therefore less heat in the tank.

From what i have read it doesnt take too long at overly high temps for snakes to get issues and i would much rather put a bit extra cash in at the beginning of a set up to ensure the safety of the snake.

[NennaMeerkat]

I guess I am the odd one out here with a dimmer. At the same time I don't go anywhere and am 99/9% always at my home or just a few miles away. Point being that even if I am not at home my husband is. We have so many different animals with different needs it is nearly impossible to take a vacation or even leave overnight. So if temps swing out of control (doesn't really happen here in Texas to an extent I am worried) and my AC/Central Heat somehow fails we would be here or at most 20min. away. Thus able to deal with the changes needed for my dimmer.

At the same time if more heat is needed I DONT alter my dimmer instead I put up my low wattage heat lamp for my girl. Even in the coldest temps here in Texas it holds the temps perfectly. Turn it off at night and move my girl to the heat pad area if I feel she needs it.

There can always be an alternate option...right?

[Lankyrob]

I wasnt suggesting that a dimmer couldnt or wouldnt work just explaining why i use a thermostat instead. :)

[NennaMeerkat]

Oh no I understand Lanky 100%. Have from the beginning. In fact I was given advice about a dimmer on here...so I know that it has to be used by someone at some point on here. If I could afford a thermostat I would probably get one. Just the best option for me at this point.

Sorry to derail this thread...again >.<

[sickvenom]

Thanks for a short summary of everthing and some new info i didn't know! lol i decided to buy a 10g tank for mine whenever i get him/her. but when it gets to be an adult i will probably move it into the 50g if i dont have another snake in it by then lol i know that they are venomous but isn't it only in their rear fangs and the only way to really get any affects of the venom is if they chew on the bitten place if i remember right. (correct me if im wrong). i have two hide and a water bowl in my tank with a fake plant. i'll check out the Zilla thermostat.
Thanks

if you are buying a 10 gallon tank, then buy a male hog. there's a chance he could live his whole life in it. and just get a bigger snake for the larger tank.

hogs are rear fang snakes, but there are confirmed deaths from them. most have been a result from allergic reaction to the venom. and yes, they really do have a to chew on you for a bit.

[sickvenom]

I guess I am the odd one out here with a dimmer.

not really. dimmer switching are hugely popular because of their low cost. nothing wrong with them, as long as you understand their limitations. i know people who have used dimmers in their snake rooms for years without issue.

[thomas1123]

well i live in florida and the temp doesnt change drastically. and im home most of the day because of school. (i'm in college) its mostly hot here and my parents own a hardware so i can get a dimmer for a fairly cheap price. the problem is is that im running low on money lol i need to pay for gas and food. so i think i will ust get a dimmer from my parents work and then save up and buy a thermostat. but also i still havent gotten my snake yet so its not a huge priority right now. ive been going around some of the petstores around here looking at there snakes and some are just terrible. the petland has a gtp that has mites and there still selling it! i know i won't be buying my snake from there. but i asked them if they knew any snake breeders and they gave me a few numbers to call.

[Jay]

if you are buying a 10 gallon tank, then buy a male hog. there's a chance he could live his whole life in it. and just get a bigger snake for the larger tank.

hogs are rear fang snakes, but there are confirmed deaths from them. most have been a result from allergic reaction to the venom. and yes, they really do have a to chew on you for a bit.

post some info on the deaths caused by hognose

[Jay]

Found this from the University of Florida

Heterodon means "different tooth," which refers to the enlarged teeth on the rear of the upper jaw. These teeth inject a mild venom into its prey, and also serve to pop inflated toads like a balloon to enable swallowing. They use their blunt nose to search through leaf litter and soil for prey.

Adults mainly eat toads, but will sometimes eat other frogs, insects, and invertebrates. Juveniles eat small frogs and toads, insects, lizards, and small snakes.

It lays eggs. Breeding takes place in both the spring and fall. Males often follow the female around for several days prior to courtship and copulation. They lay between 4-61 whitish, thin shelled, leathery eggs 1.25 inches (3.2 cm) long. Eggs are deposited in a moist sandy, shallow hole, or under debris, and hatch in 39-65 days. Hatchlings are 6.5-9.5 inches (16-24 cm).

The Hognose Snake is renowned for its "death feigning" behavior. When threatened, it flattens its head and neck and hisses loudly. It may strike, but only with its mouth closed. If it is further harassed, it will flip on its back and convulse for a short period and may defecate and regurgitate its food. It will then remain motionless with its belly up, mouth open, and tongue hanging out. It may play dead for several minutes before cautiously turning over, looking around to see if it is safe before crawling away.

Flattening its head and hissing when it is frightened gave rise to two of the local names used for this snake. Florida crackers (native Floridians) call the banded form of the Hognose Snake a "Puff Adder" and correctly believe it to be harmless. However, the black form of the Hognose Snake is called a "Spreading Adder" and is wrongly believed to be deadly. Both color forms of the Eastern Hognose Snake are harmless to humans. However, humans that are allergic to its small amount of venom have been known to produce local swelling, but no human death has ever occurred.

Another old myth says that the Hognose Snake can mix venom with its breath and is thus able to kill a person from a distance of twenty-five feet. In truth, its breath is harmless.

[mistersprinkles]

Anybody ever kept the larger, evil, mean Eastern Hog?