RTB just gave birth

[RandyRhoads]

After months of waiting I arrive home to find a tank half full of amniotic fluid 12 slugs 10 stillborn and one with a faint pulse. He was limp and not breathing. I gave him mouth to mouth for a while but I couldn't establish and airway and he's slowly fading away. This is really upseting makes me want to get rid of my other 8 snakes. I don't know why this happened I maintaned good temps humidity and didn't handle or stress her at all. Did they just all drown in the fluid? Everything i've read says they should break out and crawl away. Could I have saved them or were they all doomed?

[infernalis]

One outburst of insults and I pull this.

(This member has been previously banned, let's help his boa if we can)

Anyone care to offer some advice....

[Jay]

Thats soooo crapy man feel how old was your Boa

[Jendee]

If the tank was half full of fluid my guess is they drowned. I dont know how to save the one that barely making it?? if the heart is beating it has to be getting air, is there still yok?? does the baby have a lumpy head or "premmie" look to it?? does it have a big swollen belly??

[RandyRhoads]

I have no idea on the age as she was about 5 ft. When I got her. She is now a little over 6'.

There was quite a bit of fluid, at first I thought they might have drowned too, but shouldn't they be able to crawl out on there own? I did all I could for the one with a pulse. I ventilated it for a while but couldn't establish a patent airway, I got no rise and fall (could this mean lungs werent developed?)

With the exception of one (born without nostrils)they all looked developed to me. Here's some pics for you to decide. There was no swollen bellies.

She has always been a sweetheart but now she is extremely agressive, even after a feeding and tank cleaning, is this to be expected for a while?

The saddest part was seeing my male guarding them all :( Did I do something wrong?

I do care about my snakes, or I wouldn't have put my mouth on a reptile covered in afterbirth to try and save it. So thank you for allowing this Wayne I will keep my opinions to myself no matter how much something irritates me.

[marvelfreak]

Man Randy i feel for you wish i could help. To me it sounds like they might have drowned. If you can answer Jendee question i bet she could help. She breeds boas.

[Jendee]

They dont look under developed, their bellies arent full of yok infact I dont see any even present all good signs

did you say the male was gaurding them?? did you have both parents in the cage?? babies need to be seperated from their mother asap she will shovle her nose around in them to get them moving, in the process they do get trampled. If the male was in there...I would never leave a male in there past POS..but if he gets lefts in there I would think mom would try and protect the babies from him which would be awhole lot of comotion on top of some very fragile neonates.

My next question would be how long were they left in there before you discovered them??

were the babies in there sacs when they came out? did you see sacs in the cage at all?? sometimes the sacs can break inside mom when they get really past due, again causing the babies to drown.

babies do break out and crawl away, but they can only crawl so far before they get exhausted and if the tank is full of fluid maybe they just couldnt get to safety

seeing the pics tells me the babies were fine and something went wrong

sorry, thats gotta really suck!!


oh and all females are gonna be alittle more in your face when their litter is around, even just the smell of babies. You should wash her off. Ive heard of some fems just being a bit more uppity after there first child bearing experince!!! LOL!

[marvelfreak]

:no::no::no: Randy you have my deepest sympathy. That just suck so bad. Maybe you could take one of the bodies to the vet and have them check it out. See if they can figure out what went wrong.

[RandyRhoads]

Their bellies looked empty, and the umbibical cord was still hanging out as you can see. What do you do in a normall situation, just leave it and let it dry and crumble away?

Unfortunately It was a good ammount of hours unattentded. I checked them at noon, ran some errands, and came back around 6. It could have happened anytime between them. I rarely leave and the one day I do :( I wasn't expecting them my book said she normally has a shed before the birth. Her last shed was about a month prior.

The male was in there, I felt bad seperating them they always cuddled together. Never saw them apart. Just like the above pic resting their heads on one another. They were both together at the oposite end when I discovered what happened. Neither was protective. Upon finding them I pulled the bigger female out, and the one neonate with a hearbeat. Then the male came over and guarded the dead ones.

It was such a mess but for the most part they looked all encased in the sac, I had to break them out myself. one or two looked like it had alot of yellow "yoke" attached like it hadn't finished consuming and wasn't ready to come out yet. I would say they were in individual sacs but again, it was a swampy mess of afterbirth(She dug a hole through the substrate and laid them on the flat bottom so no fluids could be absorped at all!)


As far as her attitude, a little bit more in my face is an understatement. She used to never move, was a complete lazy sweety. Now I can't enter the same room without her darting towards me in her tank and following me around. I open one side she darts over, the other side, same thing. At first I thought she was just curious but then she shot out of her open door at my arm and tried to get me and I narrowly escaped the bite.

So what is your conclusion? A sad drowing and possible trampling? :(

The one thing that still puzzles me is not being able to ventilate it. I tried for along time and couldn't air in at all. I began suctioning it with a syringe, continued attempted ventilation with no succes, and eventually ended up in full blown CPR gently pumping his heart after it stopped. Maybe he aspirated too much fluid and had lungs full?

[RandyRhoads]

:no::no::no: Randy you have my deepest sympathy. That just suck so bad. Maybe you could take one of the bodies to the vet and have them check it out. See if they can figure out what went wrong.


I did freeze them for a proper burrial or lab work later. I was thinking about taking one to a taxidermist. Weird feeling I need a reminder they existed. All this estrogen from the pregnancy gave me a mommy feeling. lol :confused:

[Jendee]

I personally think its best to clip the cords, some will need to be tied and some not. Its a have to be seen thing. Some people leave them on. I would go by how much is draging and hanging, if a yolk is still attached to it and what not. Comes with trail and error I guess.


Im gonna say trampling/drowning. It doesnt hurt to poke a hole in a sac of a baby who just doesnt have it in them to do it on there own, you dont have to completely take them out, let them hang just make sure their head is out if its been awhile.
also it is always best to keep boas seperate, and always remove male after POS you never know how much he can stress her out during her gravid period and you just dont wanna risk anything going wrong.
Make sure you have her in a big enough cage so that she is never needing to sit on the babies, and an absorbent substrate. Drowning in the fluid is very rare, she must have had alot alot of fluids in her and some how boxed it in so it could pool up. Ive seen some people put a litter box type thing on the heated side (mom will usually drop her litter on the heated side) put tiny holes in the bottom of the tub and newspaper this way she will want to drop them in the secure substrate free warm spot and the fluids can drain out the bottom.

lesson learned, you will have a better luck next time!! Boa breeding isnt all postive, these things can happen!! at least mom made it out ok..maybe an evil b*tch but ok lol

[Jendee]

I did freeze them for a proper burrial or lab work later. I was thinking about taking one to a taxidermist. Weird feeling I need a reminder they existed. All this estrogen from the pregnancy gave me a mommy feeling. lol :confused:

theres a funny haha thing between the boa breeders..it seems that the coolest most unique baby doesnt make it. The funny part is every single breeder you talk to has that babie in a freezer some where lmao

[RandyRhoads]

theres a funny haha thing between the boa breeders..it seems that the coolest most unique baby doesnt make it. The funny part is every single breeder you talk to has that babie in a freezer some where lmao

Aw, lol.

Can I fatten her up and try and breed again or do I have to wait untill next year? If not how do I try again? Same as the first time or do I need to fix light cycle temps to a more precise degree/time being later in the year?

[Jendee]

I would feed her and breed her again this next season if she seems to bounce back well, you dont want to bring her back up to weight to fast just to make sure shes 100% ready to go for you again. the breeding "window" it can be from oct thru as late as march with boas. I wouldnt cycle my boas, The natural light in the room changes with the seasons as well as the ambient temps in my house. As far as cycling thats all my guys are gonna get. But Im sure that varies with where you live and how drastic the season changes are.

[infernalis]

If it's any consolation at all, My snakes bear live young also, and although I have never lost a whole litter, I have seen 1/2 a litter delivered dead.

[RandyRhoads]

What have you bred, Wayne? Garters?

[infernalis]

yes, garters deliver live, as do water snakes..

I had a litter born in November, half of them were dead.

Lost an albino and a snow in that clutch.

[marvelfreak]

If you give her another try best of luck and i'll have my fingers cross for you and her. Hopefully next time you'll be posting pictures of a bunch of live healthy babies.

[percey39]

Sorry to hear mate!

[shaunyboy]

i'm sorry to hear of your loss

i hope it all goes according to plan next season mate

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

If you give her another try best of luck and i'll have my fingers cross for you and her. Hopefully next time you'll be posting pictures of a bunch of live healthy babies.


I second that!!!