New Savanah Monitor Owner

[Pickrel]

Hey Everyone :),

I purchased my first Reptile today, it is a Savanah Monitor, and Im excited for the experience and everything that comes with owning a Savanah, I have done quite a bit of research, and so I think I am as prepared as I can be. I purchased the Terrarium and supplies today and am picking up the monitor tomorrow morning.

I have currently the largest terrarium i could purchase up here, I think its roughly 3 1/2 ft long by 2ft deep and about 30" or so high , not exactly sure but i think thats a rough estimate, though I know from reading here and on other sites, that this wont be a good forever tank, its the best I can do at the moment, until I can build a larger terrarium, and he is only about 8-10" right now, with or without tail not sure, just guestamating. right now, I have a Evo wire heat clamp, with a 250w heat emitter and a 24" light box ( a longer looking one) that has 3 bulb spots, i have 2 10.0 uvb bulbs , i think 26w and one 2.0 bulb for show light. I have a large heating pad underneath the terrarium, with desert sand as substrate, and a large rock type peice to allow the monitor to sit under the basking spot, and a large water bowl that he can submerge in and drink when needed etc... and i just have a few questions.

The thermometer right now reads 101.3F now i just set up the tank about 1 1/2 hours ago, and that is a reading from about 8" above the rock roughly, under the heating lamp, i put tinfoil around the wire heating lamp holder, as the pet store guy said they lose heat alot as its just a metal wire type clamp , i also put tin foil over part of the screen at the top where the basking spot is, to help keep the heat in, the water bowl side is the cooler side. Now I am just wondering a few things, I ordered a XL heating rock for the tank, as I live in the far north of Canada, in Yellowknife, somethings need to be ordered in.

I would just like a few tips on how to better my tanks temp and improve anything that you guys may have learned over your years of owning these lizards.

And yes I know the tank will be too small eventually, so please keep the "you need a bigger tank comments" to a min lol.

Also another quick note, the pet store up here has Crickets and Frozen Pinkies / furry ones, adult mice, and rats, they can get meal worms and wormy type stuff, but i read here somewhere something about roaches, and the pet store said they havent seen roaches on any of there insect lists. So Mice and crickets? what other options do I have for food options?

Thanks :)

Don

[Lankyrob]

Wont ssy much as i dont own a sav myself, but PLEASE DO NOT put a heat rock in with ANY reptile, the are reknowned for burning reptiles and no keeper with any experience uses them. Also savs need digging space, soil to burrow into, sand isnt necesarily the best idea.

I will let wayne or bighog advise the best set up, these two are the ones i personally would take the most notice of. Take time to search for Chomper's thread and you will see Waynes very healthy sav, i wouldwant mine to be like that when i get one.

Oh, and dont forget to post pics!!!

[stephanbakir]

Another problem with heat rocks and savs is, they are well known for flicking their tails when they get scared, and that tail can do a ton of damage. If they were to hit that rock into something it might crack, and all you need is one exposed wire to be a electrocution hazard for the reptile and a fire hazard for you and the pet.

[mo9e64]

That is a good size tank for a baby Sav.
The biggest enemy of monitors,especially baby monitors is dehydration.Use a deep substrate,i would mix that sand with plain dirt to at least 4".Give it hides that allow it to wedge itself into,such as cardboard or pieces of wood.
do not use screen tops,they allow to much air flow.I have a screen top,but covered the majority of it in plexiglass.I am thinking you have a glass cage,so if room temps are 65F or colder i would cover the sides with some kind of insulating material.Insulate the bottom,especially if it's on the floor.
If you use a small wattage bulb placed on one side of the tank and within the enclosure,like a 50w flood light,and build up a basking spot up to the light that gives a surface temp of 120F-you will have a temp gradient throughout the tank down to 75F on the cool end.Like Lankyrob said do not use heat rocks.Using a high wattage bulb or heat emitter is not recommended as it will dry out the cage,and make it hard to get proper temps.Wire guards are just something your monitor can burn itself on-low wattage bulbs need no guards.
Calcium coated crickets are fine,a healthy Sav baby can eat at least 500 monthly.You should get at least 3-4" growth a month.
UV bulbs aren't neccessary if you provide proper temps and calcium,but do make your monitor look nice.
I would do more research-Right now is a good time to get a monitor-sites are booming with insightful info on care,breeding and social interaction of monitors.
Good luck Moe

[infernalis]

a good start point....

Savanna Monitor (http://lllreptile.com/info/library/animal-care-sheets/lizards-and-monitors/-/savanna-monitor/)

This one has the best info of the many care sheets out there, be careful...many of those care sheets out there are so far off.. sadly not all of the information on the internet is good info....

[Jay]

nice user name possibly the best fish to catch / eat
and gl w/your new sav

[emilie]

good luck!

[bighog85]

That link that Wayne posted is where you can find the best information on savs. I could write up an entire care sheet but I would basically just be repeating a lot of what that site says. Read up on that and then come back with any questions that you still have. Don't go looking at other care sheets for your answers because quite frankly, I don't trust any others. Posting some pictures will really help us evaluate what you have right now and then we can advise from there. I know you don't want to hear it but I will say it anyway because as you will find out, I don't really hold back much; the enclosure that you have might last a month or two. These guys grow fast and you need to start working on an adult sized enclosure now so that it is ready. You will hear people say that if you put a small animal in a huge enclosure that it will stress out but that is simply not true. Last I checked, Africa is bigger than any house out there so as long as the hiding spots are plentiful, the animal will be fine. Here is a picture of one of my enclosures for a sav. It is 8'x4'x4' and has about 1,000 pounds of dirt in the bottom. I am still trying to find logs and things to put in it but this gives you an idea of what you need to have ready in the next few months.

[infernalis]

One thing to be really careful of, there is a LOT of conflicting information around.

One site will say one thing and another something completely different.

I am a firm believer in staying as close to the natural diet as possible, Savannah Monitors do not eat a lot of mice in the wild.. So regardless of what anyone has to say, I pretty much don't feed mine a lot of mice.

Your choice of foods can work within your budget.. One thing to get started on right away is get a roach colony up and going. A big colony of Dubia is ideal, and they are really cheap to maintain, the bugs get huge, have a lot of meat on them and conform more to the natural diet of a Savannah.

Night crawlers are also a favorite when your lizard gets about a foot long, start giving night crawlers, about 6 at a time per meal.

Raw trout and raw shrimp are also good foods that will be gobbled up with enthusiasm.

Also, I do want to point out... it's OK to feed a lot during the first year, but as adulthood is reached, back off on feedings. A big fat lumbering monitor is not healthy, and once they get fat, it's hard to get them to lose it.

[Lankyrob]

That enclosure is awesome Bighog - can we have some "inside" pics too?

[bighog85]

Here are a few. I tried to get one of the sav that is in it but he is still very shy and wouldn't let me take his picture. I have been over on the Oregon coast this last week and decided that it is the ultimate place to get cage decor! If I had a truck with me it would have been awesome. There is so much driftwood over there that would make a cage look incredible, but alas, I was not able to bring any home. So this is how it sits now.

[mo9e64]

nice cage, what did you line the bottom with? i am building my adult cage this weekend hope it turns out as nice as yours Moe

[bighog85]

nice cage, what did you line the bottom with? i am building my adult cage this weekend hope it turns out as nice as yours Moe

That cage is sort of experimental. I lined the bottom with countertop laminate that I am able to get from my uncle for free. It is pretty tough but we will see if it stands up to monitor claws. I have used the FRP in the past and it works really well but since this other stuff was free I figured I might as well give it a shot.

[infernalis]

Aluminum road signs can be had at any scrap yard really cheap.

[Pickrel]

Thanks for the loads of Help guys :),

Firstly I will say, because of the area I am, he will be in his enclosure for probably about 2 months, which should eb fine considering he was in the pet store for about 5 months and was in a smaller tank, so i figure he is atleast better off with me.

I am going to change the substrate from desert sand and add I think the jungle earth stuff to it, right now i think his tank is running about 110-120F at his basking spot, and about 80-85F at the other end, probably a bit less, i have a heating pad underneath the sand, which heats the sand up good, he has a large water bowl to use, and right now his diet consists of Crickets loaded with Calcium and Frozen Hoppers (small mice) which I spray with the Reptile Vitamin/mineral spray or whatever its called, he seems to be doing really well, I will post pics later, as i am on my way to work, but I understand the whole debate with no mice, but he has been on a mice diet since the pet store, so he sometimes refuses anything else.

ALso, i took him out of the tank and put him in a large cardboard box and dumped crickets in with him, after he got pretty much all he could, i attempted to pick hiim up and place him back in his home, well he didnt like that and went all puffy and hissy and snapped his tail a few times, i tried letting him calm down and tried again in a about 5-10min but same thing, I ended up having to tilt the box into his enclosure until he slid out, sounds cruel but i promise he slid out on his own , I waited like 10min just for him to move lol. Any help on ideas about how to get him back to letting me touch him would be great, as i have tried since then adn he just hisses ????

[stephanbakir]

"taming" a sav takes allot of time and patience. There are ways of doing it, but your looking at weeks if not months of work.
That being said it is worth it in my opinion, the alternative is having a scared pet, with the ability to cause allot of damage with its tail claws and nails.
The way i did it took forever, but the sav comes to me readily for food now.
Stuck my arm in the viv and read a book(for a week or 2, until he would sleep with my arm there) then I did the same but moved my arm (petting the soil for another week or 2, untill he slept, or relaxed with me doing it) then i fed him in line of sight of my arm (not close) and over about a month i moved the food closer to my arm, and finally i fed him from next to my hand, then from my hand. Total time, about 2 months.
That being said i was recovering from an injury at the time and had all the time in the world. It might not have been the fastest way but it got the job done, and got a great end result.

[NennaMeerkat]

"taming" a sav takes allot of time and patience. There are ways of doing it, but your looking at weeks if not months of work.
That being said it is worth it in my opinion, the alternative is having a scared pet, with the ability to cause allot of damage with its tail claws and nails.
The way i did it took forever, but the sav comes to me readily for food now.
Stuck my arm in the viv and read a book(for a week or 2, until he would sleep with my arm there) then I did the same but moved my arm (petting the soil for another week or 2, untill he slept, or relaxed with me doing it) then i fed him in line of sight of my arm (not close) and over about a month i moved the food closer to my arm, and finally i fed him from next to my hand, then from my hand. Total time, about 2 months.
That being said i was recovering from an injury at the time and had all the time in the world. It might not have been the fastest way but it got the job done, and got a great end result.

That sounds like a great method...I can't help but wonder if it would work with a snake that is rather "spunky" when it comes to hands/arms. Not the food part of course that is finger suicide! LOL

[Lankyrob]

That is how i started off calming down the adult corn i rehomed - it does work over time.

[stephanbakir]

The only problem with it is, it takes a special type of person to devote this much time to an animal, that and allot of herp owners tend to own them for display purposes.

[Pickrel]

Hey :)

Here are some pictures I have right now :), just added some jungle earth today, took out the 250w ceramic heater and put in a 150w sunglow basking lamp, i sprayed the jungle earth with water as i added the layers so the humidity would be better, and just hoping he likes it :)

Hope you guys enjoy the pics :), also anyone else have other techniques on taming my lizzy ?

[stephanbakir]

Great lookin' sav. The fact that hes up against the glass facing you is a good thing, their primary weapon tends to be that tail so the fact that he's facing you with his tail behind a rock means he probably isn't planning on using it.
I would advise using my method, but there are probably more out there that I am unaware of.
Good luck with him.

[NennaMeerkat]

Goodness he is cute! You are gonna need a bigger home for him soon no doubt! I wish they stayed small like that...if they did I would own one myself. Congrats on a lovely lizzie!

[mo9e64]

The fact he didn't like you handling him is a good sign-that's what healthy monitors do.If you can resist handling,and let the monitor get used to you and interact on their terms,you'll reap the benefits when the monitor is a larger size.Right now ,you're just a predator-he/she is trying to get away from.Even when they appear calm-there hearts are beating fast,after awhile they tend to shut down and not struggle-despite appearances it is very stressful on them.

From what you have written,you appear to want the best for your monitor. Moe

[stephanbakir]

Well said.

[mo9e64]

I have some suggestions Pickrel--dirt or coco husk will retain moisture better than the bark type substrates.If you cover most of the screen,you can use a safer lower wattage bulb and not even need a heat pad(can be dangerous).Monitors like tight spots to hide in,it's more secure.Google Retes boards.
Judging the size of your monitor,your hotspot can be even hotter,around 150F.This will help in digestion,the only problem will be if you do all these thing your monitor will quickly outgrow your cage.

[infernalis]

The fact he didn't like you handling him is a good sign-that's what healthy monitors do.If you can resist handling,and let the monitor get used to you and interact on their terms,you'll reap the benefits when the monitor is a larger size.Right now ,you're just a predator-he/she is trying to get away from.Even when they appear calm-there hearts are beating fast,after awhile they tend to shut down and not struggle-despite appearances it is very stressful on them.

From what you have written,you appear to want the best for your monitor. Moe


We didn't hardly handle ours at all until he got bigger.

good advice Moe.

[Pickrel]

Hey Guys :)

Just a update :), he is quite active today, circling his tank looking for ways out haha, and i think he is enjoying the coconut bedding i installed in his Rock Cave :)

Here are some more Pictures :)

[NennaMeerkat]

It is amazing that he can cram himself in that rock hide!

[Jay]

I dont handle mine until he becomes adult age and size i dont need to spook him young as they have outstanding memories. For a substrate just go to a garden center and buy a bag of organic soil, make sure you sift through it. I found nails glass metal plastic all sorts of goodies i didnt want my sav to eat hold moisture and burrows

[Pickrel]

Ok, for the humidity I have been spraying the tank daily with water, basically keeping the substrate moist, that should help right? also he doesnt really bask much? it could be because his rock hide is underneath the basking spot, so inside there may be hot enough for him already? , as it gets up to 121-125F just in the air, and i am assuming with the heating pad underneath and the moist coco husk bedding and the sand underneath it would create a warm spot for him?

[mo9e64]

If you have to mist daily to keep your cage humid, you have to much ventilation.That's also why you use a low wattage bulbs, it won't dry out the cage.The cage should be neither dry or wet.The basking spot will be very dry,but cooler areas will be humid.They like to hide in tight sots that are about 50-60% humidity.

You should have have shelters in various areas so the monitor can pick temps and humidity to their liking.

[Pickrel]

Im not sure if you seen the pics I posted, but there are two hides, on underneath his basking spot, which is really deep and provides ultimate hiding lol, as I cant even see him when he is in there, then there is the cardboard type hide i made on the right, i dug down a bit into the substrate so he would have a lower area to go.

As for the humidity, the cage he is in, has that normal screen top, with the lamps and the black long box for the uvb etc.. takes some up, i put a towel folded up over the one section that has nothing, and have been trying to put tin foil around the rest of the smaller spots. but its the best that can be done at the moment, any ideas would help :), keeping the substrate lower areas wet will help with that right? Im trying to find solutions to the humidity levels using what i got at the moment. Im in the process of researching and finding a carpenter to build a better enclosure, but it takes time up here as were isolated in the north.

Any ideas would be appreciated :), I am waiting on the pet store getting Meal worms and Super worms in so that i can start feeding him more of a insect diet, but at the moment i have to settle with the frozen hoppers, and crickets, though im out of crickets and the pet store is out as well.

I havent handled him since the first time, so about a week or so ago, so im hoping Infernalis comments about not handling till there bigger will work :), he seems pretty ok with me right now, just as long as i dont try to pick him up lol, then he gets a little puffy and angry lol, cant say i blame him though lol i would do the same if some gigantic lizard was trying to pick me up lol.

I am really trying to give the little guy a better home :) I think i am doing better then the pet shop :), but I want to continue improving his living enclosure so that I am able to enjoy him for many more years to come. I am just really worried about the whole Humidity thing, I mean he has a large water bowl that he visits and poops in lol, and i have coco husk underneath both his hides, which seem to hold moisture better, then i sprayed the inner walls of the terrarium so the water would run down into the lower levels, he actually had a blast when i did that, he was chasing the spray and licking the walls lol, then cockin his head at me trying to determine if the water bottle sprayer was edible i think lol.

:) thanks for all the help and hopefully the continued support :)

[infernalis]

Here is a handy trick I do.

Measure the rectangle dimensions of the tank top and go to Home Depot and ask for a sheet of plywood cut to the size of the tanks top.

Drill holes for some airflow and a hole for your light and presto you have a solid top.

Set a couple red bricks (about $1 each at home depot while getting the wood) on top for weight and for under $20 you now have an ideal temporary home.

[Pickrel]

Thanks Wayne, you have been much help :), gonna go do some searching at home depot for those items :), Im thinking up here they only sell teh 8x4 sheets of plywood so i may have to just buy the whole thing and get it cut down to size lol

[Lankyrob]

A lot of yards near us will either sell off cuts cheap or give them free, never hurts to ask!!

[infernalis]

Our local home depot will cut anything down for no charge, and they sell 1/4 sheets for about $6

Heck, I'll be honest, most all of my home made cages are 4 feet by 2 feet for a reason, I buy one sheet cut into 4 equal panels and take them home and assemble them. ;)

[Pickrel]

I tried Sardines with My sav and well he took a peice then refused anymore lol, shook his nose on the substrate and did the whole gross thing lol

[infernalis]

Bad idea, they are packed in salt and cooked.

Nothing from a can is healthy, and salt can be lethal to reptiles.

Please don't do that. :(

Fresh raw shrimp, crickets, roaches, earthworms, all good foods.

Raw trout is also a yummy treat.

anything cooked is not healthy.

[Pickrel]

bah my bad, sorry :( didnt realize they were cooked, no wonder he didnt like it . What about raw salmon and king crab legs etc.. what do you mean by fresh raw shrimp? i can bags of raw shrimp, they have no heads, but they say raw

[infernalis]

bah my bad, sorry :( didnt realize they were cooked, no wonder he didnt like it . What about raw salmon and king crab legs etc.. what do you mean by fresh raw shrimp? i can bags of raw shrimp, they have no heads, but they say raw


That's what I get, bags of frozen raw shrimp, king crab legs are fine, since crabs are just huge aquatic insects.

raw fresh salmon is good too, but salmon is a tad more fatty than trout.

[Pickrel]

so can he eat the shell too? should break it up?

[infernalis]

OK a small/young monitor I would break it up into sensible size pieces, their jaws are engineered to crush insects, and I believe the shells do provide some nutritional benefit.

also be careful not to over feed, savs will display ravenous appetite and will even learn to beg for food. You can't give in.. they can get fat.

[infernalis]

Sometime soon, can we see pictures of your setup, and a description of the temperatures inside?? thanks. it will help us here to better advise you.

[Pickrel]

Ok thats the setup pretty much, nothing has really changed, the left side is about roughly 115-120 at the basking spot, the right side is usually running around between 85-90, thats about halfway up the tank though where the second thermometer is, any tips or points you may see is much appreciated.

[infernalis]

I like the setup, but one thing looks evident already, you need to start on your bigger cage soon.

that lizard is going to quadruple in size within a year.

[Pickrel]

Thanks, yeah I am in the thought process with a carpenter friend of mine, and researchin the materials etc... i live in a rather small apartment, so space is limited but i will make room for a new enclosure, im only in the north for another 3 years, so Im thinking of building a 6 1/2 ft long by 3 1/2 wide by 4 ft high enclosure, and then build a even bigger one once i get down south again, he seems to be more curious now, i made the mistake today i think when i came back from work and went to remove his water bowl, he sorta made a movement while flicking his tongue for my hand and i immediately snapped my hand back thinking he was going for a bite, not sure if he was but he didnt like it and hissed lol, it was just a auto response, still new to him and him to me, so i have to learn to be a little more calm i guess, just trying to avoid getting bitten lol

[infernalis]

that would work, just let it out to move around frequently.

[stephanbakir]

Making one mistake can make him uneasy, just give him a few days to relax if its what it takes then just keep on working with him.

[Pickrel]

So it seems, sucks, i thought i was getting better with him. I havent tried to handle him since the first incident, so i am hoping that is truly helping.

A Question, when he was in the pet store, you would always see him basking on top of the logs and stuff they had built up underneath there heat lamp, now mind you they just had green carpet and not much else, now that he is in my tank setup, you never really see him basking on top of the rock, he is either inside it or in the cardboard box on the right? could that be because inside the rock is just as hot as on top maybe? the rock does get pretty warm, and there is a heating pad underneath the left side of the tank, so the sand and such is kept pretty warm there, I just want to make sure he is getting the best care possible :)

[Pickrel]

Oh on another quick note / question.

When I opened the cage yesterday, he immediately came towards it and stuck his head, now me being still nervous a bit about being bitten moved my hands away, should i have just kept them where they were and let him possibly just smell? Im never sure how to tell if he is going to bite or not? and honestly would his bite really hurt? or do damage at this point? if it wont hurt a LOT then i would be willing to take the chance but not sure yet.

Im just frustrated i guess lol

[infernalis]

Chomper has never bit anyone.

That's only my personal experience, you need to build a relationship of trusting each other now, or you will regret it later on, they have excellent memories.

[Lankyrob]

With my lizards i just present a balled fist for them to "taste" with their tongue rather than a finger - fingers are about the right size to look just like a tasty morsel!

[Pickrel]

Good Idea, maybe I will let him taste a balled fist instead of a open hand lol, well wish me luck will try that tonight lol, i have to change his water anyways lol.

He seems to be more inquisitive about me and the surroundings, he sat in his water bowl watching UFC with me last night I swear lol

[Pickrel]

OK a quick update on Rusty :)

He has seemed to warm up to me, I bought a couple containers of King Worms and he seems to love them, i routinely put my hand into his tank and take the water out and move the substrate around a bit to even things out. now everytime i open up the tank and put my hand in he immediately "charges towards my hand" lol though i tested it out and kept my hand in there and he just smelled it, he has been very calm with me, i was able to touch him so far, and he is very inquistive when i open the tank now, I think his charging was his way of assuming i was putting more worms in lol, he was smelling the area around where my hands were lol, also he has just recently starting to "dig" though its only a tiny bit lol, also how do i know if he is a she or a he lol, not sure, also about the temperatures, my hot side gets to about 120F roughly, my cool side is usually around 90, is that ok? at night it goes down to about 80-85, he openly lays in the open now, he only really goes into his rock hide when its night time and/or i open the outside door and the noise must spook him a bit, but for the most part he seems to be doing well :)

He poops in the water bin, which he has always done, also his poop has this white stuff in it? what is it and is it normal??

[Lankyrob]

White stuff is usually urine - reptiles tend to pee and poo at the same time so you end up with a cluster bomb of stench! ;)

[Pickrel]

Hey there :) just a update again :)

Things are going well, Rusty is getting used to his terrarium and much enjoying the kingworms and eating them and digging around for them lol, the new home is almost done, here are some pics for you guys to enjoy :)

[NennaMeerkat]

That is an awesome home you are building! I bet your lizard is gonna LOVE it

[infernalis]

I am very impressed by it, looking good.

[Stormy Night]

90degrees and 120 degrees seems a bit to toasty for me. Mine is closer to room temp on one side (75) and 100 on the hot side. He's probably not basking because he doesn't need to. Its pretty warm over there already. And as for telling the sex..that's tough. The males have a weird squid like thing about as big as their back leg that they pop out from time to time. Check "how to tell what sex a Savannah monitor is" on YouTube. Last I checked there was one video and it was creepy. Besides the males exposing themselves they all appear pretty close. Sometimes the males have a bulkier head but you can't go by that alone. And on another note. I started handeling my little crazed hell spawn with gloves when I first got her. She was never handled before and wanted to eat me. It took her two times of biting the glove and she never did it again. She calmed down and now is like a hairless blue tongued puppy. Savvys have teeth unlike most reptiles. Snapple fact.

[Stormy Night]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=VQZdQd_vctw)
This should be it....creepy squid

[Little Wise Owl]

That doesn't really look like a Sav. skull...


This is more like it.
http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Varanus_exanthematicus/specimen.jpg
Source: Digimorph - Varanus exanthematicus (Savannah monitor) (http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Varanus_exanthematicus/)



Also, for basking temps:

"While other reptiles may shy away from any basking surface temperature higher than 110F, monitors gravitate toward and make full use of surface temps in excess of 130F-140F without harm."
- The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus – Housing – The Basics (http://savannahmonitor.org/housing/basics/)

[infernalis]

Savvys have teeth unlike most reptiles. Snapple fact.

Correct, most other reptiles have sharp pointy teeth for grabbing mamilian prey ;)

Notice the insectivore teeth engineered by nature to grind insects rather than consume vertebrate flesh.

http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Varanus_exanthematicus/specimen.jpg


The males have a weird squid like thing about as big as their back leg that they pop out from time to time. .


Our Savannah, Chomper is a boy..

http://www.mypetforums.com/photos/pp.jpg

[Aaron_S]

Thanks for that insightful picture Wayne.

[Pickrel]

So any other thoughts on the temps? lol and thanks for the pics of the squishy thing haha, the temps are ranging from the left side (higher temp side) up to 115F and the right side (lower temp side) down to 85-90, with his new enclosure I think the temps will be a bit better, as the cooler side will be able to actually be cooler for him, and I have roughly 4 light/heat fixtures that will be set up on the basking side, plus the substrate heater etc...

I dont know about your guys monitors, but mine is actually digging a lot lately, lol he loves it lol, especially when a Kingworm escapes his dish and burrows down, he hunts for that one worm until he finds it lol, though occasionally i have to reopen his cave entrance as he will bury it in substrate lol.

[Stormy Night]

My girl (she's a girl because I say so. I don't have proof) loves digging. She makes caves under things and digs trails. She loves "new sand day" not to mention hunting crickets. She goes all "tiger in the grass" style.

[infernalis]

Savannah Monitors are the reptilian equivalent of a woodchuck, digging is normal.

Those sharp thick claws are for digging. ;)

Woo hoo I am excited, I just ordered another 100 assorted Dubia roaches, including some more breeding pairs.

I need to improve the bloodlines of my existing colony after the moldy egg carton wiped out 80% of my roaches.

My lizards are bug sucking eating machines.

[sickvenom]

Savannah Monitors are the reptilian equivalent of a woodchuck, digging is normal.

Those sharp thick claws are for digging. ;)

Woo hoo I am excited, I just ordered another 100 assorted Dubia roaches, including some more breeding pairs.

I need to improve the bloodlines of my existing colony after the moldy egg carton wiped out 80% of my roaches.

My lizards are bug sucking eating machines.

I wish more people would jump on the roach bandwagon.

[Pickrel]

Where do you order these roaches? and how do you breed them????

[infernalis]

Where do you order these roaches? and how do you breed them????


Buy Live Feeder Roaches For Sale - Buy Dubia Roaches For Sale : Blaptica Dubia Roaches For Sale (http://blapticadubiaroaches.com/sale.html)

all you need is a big rubbermaid or sterilite tote box, some empty egg cartons and a banana.

Use an under tank heater (I just sit my roach tub on top of Chompers enclosure, the heat emanating from the cover is plenty to keep roaches happy) and gel cubes or an insect water dish.

Absolutely do not allow mold to form, take out the fruit in 24 hours or less, keep the box fresh inside, except the "dirt" leave the feces layer on the bottom so the babies have it to eat.

Sliced up bananas are a favourite food, mango, papaya, peaches, pears and soft veggies like squash are all really good Dubia foods.

[Pickrel]

And once I have this colony set up, how do i get them to Rustys enclosure without having them escape on me haha, or climb the tote? lol

[stephanbakir]

Where do you order these roaches? and how do you breed them????

You personally don't, its HIGHLY illegal to breed/own roaches in Canada.

I'm pretty sure locusts aren't against the rules in Canada, you can check at Reptiles Canada Forums (http://www.reptilescanada.com/forums/index.php) in the Legislative Forum (By-laws, Provincial and Federal Laws) section.

[stephanbakir]

I'm assuming Savs have the same razor sharp "talons" that Asian water monitors have (correct me if I'm wrong) but if I were you I'd order some Pond Armor - Non Toxic Epoxy and Polyurea Pond Liners and Sealers (http://www.pondarmor.com/) and line the wood on the interior of the enclosure. Not only will it make cleaning MUCH easier but you wont need to worry about damage to the wood and nasties getting into the grooves and trying to clean it.

[sickvenom]

And once I have this colony set up, how do i get them to Rustys enclosure without having them escape on me haha, or climb the tote? lol

The roaches wayne is talking about can't climb smooth surfaces and they can't fly.

[Stormy Night]

Step 1) open the tub
Step 2) use a cup and scoop one or a few up
Step 3) don't slap your self and run screaming until you dump your chosen one (or few) into lizard land.
Step 4) using your cup scoop up one more and sit infront of your lizards enclosure.
Now this part is important!
You have to reach into mr.cup and grab the Roach by its mid section and quickly toss it towards your tonsils, chew and swallow. This way the monitor knows exactly what to do.
Lol. Ok. You should probably stop at step 3.

[sickvenom]

Step 1) open the tub
Step 2) use a cup and scoop one or a few up
Step 3) don't slap your self and run screaming until you dump your chosen one (or few) into lizard land.
Step 4) using your cup scoop up one more and sit infront of your lizards enclosure.
Now this part is important!
You have to reach into mr.cup and grab the Roach by its mid section and quickly toss it towards your tonsils, chew and swallow. This way the monitor knows exactly what to do.
Lol. Ok. You should probably stop at step 3.

What the f are you talking about, lady? lol

[Stormy Night]

Pickrel asked about getting them out of the tub and into the monitor enclosure ...I'm vaguley sure.

[Little Wise Owl]

Where do you order these roaches? and how do you breed them????

As stated, you're probably best not to start up a colony. They are illegal in Canada (which is a shame).

[sickvenom]

Pickrel asked about getting them out of the tub and into the monitor enclosure ...I'm vaguley sure.

Yeah but I ain't eating no roaches.

[Stormy Night]

Lol. Oh come on. It builds character! Its a great party trick aswell. Not the best way to pick up chicks though.
for example ...the chances of this Guy haveing a GF/wife...none to none

[infernalis]

No special methods here, I chase them into a plastic cup and just dump them in Chompers enclosure.

[Pickrel]

Ok, so I had a very Blond moment yesterday, stupid me decided that I would give Rusty a bath, which i have read a few on here have done here, so i filled the tub up so that one end was around 3"-4" deep and the other end was enough to go half way up his legs, so initially i wasnt sure if was going to be able to pick him up to get him to the tub, so I opened the tank up, and slowly placed my hand underneath him, managed to pick him up with only him puffing up a bit.

Which was good considering i guess, so i got him to the tub, and when i put him in, he licked the area a bit, and then tried to climb out, which wasnt working cause he couldnt get any grip, so he went to the other end and tried again, so after a few minutes of that i realized he wasnt really enjoying this, so i emptied the tub out, and then realized i had to pick him up again to get him back to his cage, well he didnt much care for that, soon as my hand got near him he went beserk, legs and whole body moving fast but he couldnt get traction so he was staying still but looking like he was running, so i stood around to see if he would calm down, never the less he became still again.

So i tried coaxing him into a pillow case with a worm, that didnt work, so eventually i had to get gloves and put on my sweater, then pick him up that way, he didnt much care for that, he hissed at first, then tried getting out of my grip, then just sorta went still , but as soon as i put him back in his tank he went beserk, he immediately made a fast charge around the tank, towards his reflection i am assuming lol, he then went into his cave for a bit. So I then decided that he deserved a meal so i got his favorite meal out (the frozen mice, I know its not recommended, but he only gets the mice like once a week or two, the rest is the King Worms) so I fed him his 2 hoppers and he was back to his normal self, though he has a favorite spot in his tank now, he lays down in the front right portion of the tank and thats where he pretty much stays until i open the tank up then he gets up and comes to investigate lol.

Is there a reason he spends most of his time on the cooler side? I dont see him basking at all anymore?? I mean his Basking spot gets up to 120F ? dont they like that?? he has his rock that he can lay on ?? is the light maybe to high up ?? i dunno lol its confusing me

[sickvenom]

No mice at all. Feed him a variety - crickets, roaches, worms, beetles, etc. 120? I never let mine get that high.

[Pickrel]

Ok, so just to let you know, I live in the North of Canada, where stuff isnt as readily available as other places, currently the only way in/out of the city is by air, as the ferry hasnt been put back in the water as the ice is still blocking.

I am now confused concerning the Temps, I know i was told that monitors enjoy up to 140-150F , and Roachs are Highly illegal to be kept or bred in Canada apparently, cant find anything to support that but i was told that yesterday on here. The Kingworms I buy are 13.95$ for 100 Kingworms, how many kingworms should I feed in one sitting? as it can get exspensive and they have limited supplies, so i usually buy 2-3 cups worth of them when they get them in, as they get shipments every other Friday.

Crickets I have found are more of a nuisance to Rusty as he has a hard time getting them sometimes, and he doesnt like being picked up so taking him out and placing him in a better feeding environment isnt really a option at the moment, so worms, shrimp, and mice at the moment are the options, Mice are only fed Once a month or so, sometimes twice, but i figure at a young age, it wont hurt him that much since he is growing still, and by the way he is now at roughly 20-22" in length, its hard to measure him from outside the tank though lol

[infernalis]

A little trick I learned with chomper, we got a shower head on a hose and I put him in and make it rain with the shower head.

Rain is more natural, and I cannot speak for anyone else, but he likes rain, so the shower works great for washing off all the dirt and mud, and he don't flip out like he does with the tub.

[Pickrel]

is there anyway to pick him up without him going nutz? it just seems as if I can pick him up, he is fine, but once i put him down he no longer wants to be picked up for a few days or whatever, so its pretty near impossible to put him down except back into the tank? its getting frustrating lol

[infernalis]

Ok, so just to let you know, I live in the North of Canada, where stuff isnt as readily available as other places, currently the only way in/out of the city is by air, as the ferry hasnt been put back in the water as the ice is still blocking.

I am now confused concerning the Temps, I know i was told that monitors enjoy up to 140-150F , and Roachs are Highly illegal to be kept or bred in Canada apparently, cant find anything to support that but i was told that yesterday on here. The Kingworms I buy are 13.95$ for 100 Kingworms, how many kingworms should I feed in one sitting? as it can get exspensive and they have limited supplies, so i usually buy 2-3 cups worth of them when they get them in, as they get shipments every other Friday.

Crickets I have found are more of a nuisance to Rusty as he has a hard time getting them sometimes, and he doesnt like being picked up so taking him out and placing him in a better feeding environment isnt really a option at the moment, so worms, shrimp, and mice at the moment are the options, Mice are only fed Once a month or so, sometimes twice, but i figure at a young age, it wont hurt him that much since he is growing still, and by the way he is now at roughly 20-22" in length, its hard to measure him from outside the tank though lol

OK, I just read this.....

Jumbo raw shrimp are in fact insects (Arthropods), Crayfish and Crab are also Arthropods, Night Crawlers (usually free if you gather them after a rain storm) are all good Savannah monitor food.

Mine also likes trout and venison. I cut the venison up small and he only eats that about every 8 weeks. (I get free deer roasts) Raw trout flesh is very lean and again is only used once in a while.

[Little Wise Owl]

...Night Crawlers (usually free if you gather them after a rain storm)...


I was thinking of doing this but was hesitant because you know how people are... "DON'T EVER USE PREY ITEMS FROM OUTSIDE"

Thoughts?

Ok, so just to let you know, I live in the North of Canada, where stuff isnt as readily available as other places, currently the only way in/out of the city is by air, as the ferry hasnt been put back in the water as the ice is still blocking.

I am now confused concerning the Temps, I know i was told that monitors enjoy up to 140-150F , and Roachs are Highly illegal to be kept or bred in Canada apparently, cant find anything to support that but i was told that yesterday on here. The Kingworms I buy are 13.95$ for 100 Kingworms, how many kingworms should I feed in one sitting? as it can get exspensive and they have limited supplies, so i usually buy 2-3 cups worth of them when they get them in, as they get shipments every other Friday.

Crickets I have found are more of a nuisance to Rusty as he has a hard time getting them sometimes, and he doesnt like being picked up so taking him out and placing him in a better feeding environment isnt really a option at the moment, so worms, shrimp, and mice at the moment are the options, Mice are only fed Once a month or so, sometimes twice, but i figure at a young age, it wont hurt him that much since he is growing still, and by the way he is now at roughly 20-22" in length, its hard to measure him from outside the tank though lol


Are you able to go to reptile expos? I rely on them to buy my reptile food because pet stores charge waaaay too much for cheap things like superworms, etc. You can usually get feeder insects in bulk at a great price at expos.

[Stormy Night]

I had a supposed "expert" tell me to feed them Turkey burger with an egg cracked on top..I haven't. But his lizards are huge. He has 12 of them. Mine also loves small mice which I give sparingly. But loooves chassing crickets. Which might be a little more legal to breed than roaches in Canada. And really...ill probably have Canadian police knocking on my door for saying This (not really) but they are illegal only if you get caught. Who is going to come knocking on your door to check Rubbermaid tubs? I used to have absinthe imported from France and that was illegal in the states. (Not now though you can get it at most liquor stores). As long as you strictly keep them controlled..BUT there's always the risk of some stupid' friend' seeing and suddenly deciding to toss you under the buss. <-----worst advice ever but worth mentioning. I once had a chicken named dog...and I wasn't zoned for chickens where I live..I was a straight up rebel .
Anyway meal worms /super worms are easy to breed. Earth worms can be Rubbermaid tubed and kept in compost bins, tossing in veggy scraps and paper and stuff. ...I wonder if they sell frozen roaches like they sell frozen mice..*passing thought*.

[infernalis]

Neither of my lizards will eat a dead roach. It has to be moving.

[Stormy Night]

My girl will taste and try to devour anything. She tried to eat my phone yesterday. F/t pinkys she will go bat shyt crazy for. And they aren't moving either. She is the extreme opposite of picky. I have to keep a firm eye on her when she's out. Bottle caps, legos, shoe laces...

[stephanbakir]

Are locusts easy to breed? might be an alternative to roaches.

On a side note, where at do you live in northern Canada? If your positioned right you might want to invest in a cast net and stock up on shrimp (cast nets are illegal in most provinces in Canada) most people can easily throw a 6ft net, but you can get them up to 16 foot or just make them yourself pretty easy.

[mistersprinkles]

Our Savannah, Chomper is a boy..

http://www.mypetforums.com/photos/pp.jpg

Jesus it's bigger than mine :yes:.


Are locusts easy to breed? might be an alternative to roaches.


Grasshoppers and their kin are notoriously difficult to breed. People apparently tortured themselves trying to get it right before settling on crickets. I've seen a lot of things chomping on grasshoppers in the wild but never a cricket. That might have been why.

Darkling beetles (mealworms), crickets, and roaches do everything themselves, just like rats. Feed it, give it water, keep it reasonably sanitary, give it what it needs to breed in, ie dirt, a cardboard box, and there's your free food. The real question is, can you put up with the noise/cost/smell/space it's going to require.

Similarly easy to breed if you have something that takes fish, such as garter snakes, are guppies, mollies, mosquitofish, swordtails, and plattys.
Mosquitofish are especially easy to breed. Once you're set up you're literally looking at $5 of fish food to last you six months and produce enough mosquitofish to sustain 5 to 10 2 foot garters in that time out of about a 20 gallon aquarium. Not bad. The fish themselves would only cost you about $10 for 50 to 100 to start your colony.

When I had my large breeding pair of map angelfish, my friend who had always complained that her guppy colony was out of control and she had nowhere to put them, finally had somewhere to put them. I'd wake up to a big bag of guppy fry on my porch every monday, and my angels always had high quality protein. I didn't even have to raise them or pay for the guppies muahaha

[stephanbakir]

I used to breed crayfish pretty easilly, gona need to look them up as a potential food source, they get pretty big and are easy to care for

[Stormy Night]

My Lucy (SM) loves feeder fish in her huge water bowl. I toss in a bubbler to keep them alive while she's splashing around like a kid at a water park.

[infernalis]

I read it in a couple places that Savannah Monitors will eat fish during the monsoon season when the Savannah plains become flooded.

[stephanbakir]

Monitors are notorious scavengers aren't they? I know they will chase stuff down if given the chance but if they see food in the wild they tend to eat it without question don't they?

[infernalis]

Monitors are notorious scavengers aren't they? I know they will chase stuff down if given the chance but if they see food in the wild they tend to eat it without question don't they?

only to certain degree. Daniel Bennett went to Africa and studied the Savannah monitor in it's natural habitat, and of 200 monitors studied 199 of them showed no evidence of having ever consumed any vertebrate prey, no rodents, no birds, no eggs.

those animals that were studied had been eating exclusively arthropods, Worms and small fish.

Included in the arthropods were crustaceans and crayfish. They like giant centipedes, scorpions, locusts, and such, but they do not hunt mice in the wild, it just don't happen.

[stephanbakir]

Thats pretty cool, I know the Asian water monitors are notorious egg eaters

[infernalis]

Thats pretty cool, I know the Asian water monitors are notorious egg eaters

That is a different species with different dietary requirements.

The physiology of a Savannah monitor is exclusively it's own. They are insectivores. :)

[stephanbakir]

The physiology of a Savannah monitor is exclusively it's own. They are insectivores. :)

Hmm, would they thrive on worms crickets and crayfish?
The only 3 non mammalian food items i have experience breeding

[infernalis]

Hmm, would they thrive on worms crickets and crayfish?
The only 3 non mammalian food items i have experience breeding

yes, that would be a good diet.

Like I said before, a big bag of jumbo raw shrimp is not really that expensive. a pound size bag would make for 4 feedings. Supplement with worms, crickets and crayfish and you could do fine without roaches.

I use roaches, because they are big meaty bugs, and I don't need to feed a truckload of them to fill chomps belly.

[stephanbakir]

I would do roaches if i could but dun wana get caught:P

[Lankyrob]

Just as a comparison - we used to feed 10 adult (full wings) locusts twice a week to our little monitor - with the roaches he gets three adult males every 3 days. Because he is small you can see his belly fill up and he will walk away from the food when he is full. 6 or seven roaches two or three times a week fills both or lizards to a healthy diet.

We were spending getting on for $20 or more a week on locusts and now $5 buys the bug grub and water crystals and all our waste food (slightly turned fruit, old veggies) get fed to the roaches so less waste too.!

[stephanbakir]

Nice, that's convenient

[Millinex]

only to certain degree. Daniel Bennett went to Africa and studied the Savannah monitor in it's natural habitat, and of 200 monitors studied 199 of them showed no evidence of having ever consumed any vertebrate prey, no rodents, no birds, no eggs.

The thing that really struck me about exanthematicus was the fact that it wasn't opportunistic at all; the same prey items came up time after time after time and there wasn't much variety at all.
I'm actually very disappointed that nobody did question my study of the species (other than from a supine, in front of a screen position). I was young and daft and I thought that other people would want to check that some of the claims I made about it were really true. The relationship between hatchlings and Brachytrupes crickets, for example, is quite extraordinary. It might be restricted to that little coastal strip of savannah, or it might be a widespread phenomenon that occurs wherever Brachytrupes and monitor lizards are sympatric (i.e from Sengal east to India). If I had known that almost 20 years later nobody would have even bothered to look at the diet and abundance of Varanus albigularis I would have done it myself. It still seems extraordinary to me that tens or hundreds of thousands of people want to keep these animals in boxes but less than ten are actually interested enough in the animals' ecology to go and look for themselves. Most people I know drive cars whose wheels alone would have financed the work I did on exanthematicus several times over. It wasn't hard to do, it didn't take very long, and it was incredibly good fun. But I don't find it surprising anymore. In a box lizards are stripped of everything that has made them what they are, and I guess people must prefer it that way.
To address the question; I suspect that heat and humidity (or lack thereof) are probably much more important factors than diet as far as captives are concerned. Maybe if everything else was good a diet of rodents would be ok. They only have to live in a box, it isn't as if they have to compete and survive alongside lots of other animals.

I agree with this post, and feed a mixed diet of insects, fish, turkey, bacon, rodents. If proper temps/basking areas are met, it shouldn't be a huge issue in all honesty. Most issues with Savs come from overfeeding with bad temps/humidity and poor substrate.

As for the OP: I'm not going to lie- a savannah monitor as a first reptile is probably on par with getting a nile as a first reptile. These guys really shouldn't be owned by anyone without extensive experience, deep pockets, and a lot of time on their hands. While you may be able to keep it alive and maybe get 5 years out of it, it's another to keep it properly so it hits its 20-30 years.

-Mike

[Pickrel]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the comments, I do listen and read everyone of them, now as I understand your comment about me owning a Sav as my first reptile, but I do have deep pockets and have all the time in the world on my hands, the only thing I lack is experience, but I have learned and always asked questions here when I needed to, I currently have a new larger enclosure being built, in fact it gets delivered tomorrow. Its about 7ft by 3 1/2 ft by 4ft, it will have about roughly 19" of substrate, many hides and a few different things inside the cage, and the temps will be setup as they have been recommended here.

I have done a ton of research, and continue to always learn more, this may not be a Begginner reptile, but Im not your typical begginner reptile owner, I actually went out and did my research before purchasing, I got all the requirements, spent over 1200$ on equipment, and procured the construction of a new enclosure for him.

By the way its almost done, so I will have pics up of the new enclosure soon,

I will add some pics of it as it is right now,

[stephanbakir]

Looks fantastic, keep us posted!

[TeaNinja]

lol savs broad heads are so cute :D

[infernalis]

Looks fantastic, keep us posted!


Agreed.. looking awesome.

[Pickrel]

Hey, went over tonight and saw the very near finished product,

here are some more photos, hope you guys enjoy :)

[stephanbakir]

I'm not seeing vents, flexwat or thermostat probes. Not trying to nitpick just curious.

[Pickrel]

Flexwat? not sure what that is, as for vents, they are being built into the sides today, two on each side about 1-2" in diameter, dont want anymore as i want the humidity to be able to hold in there, and i will be opening the top daily so he will get enough from that as well. , the thermostat probe is at the hot end, you can see the thermostat itself mounted on top, the last picture above your post, i will install more when i get the enclosure itself today. I will also be picking up a timer for the lights and a infrared temp gun, not sure where i can find one of those though.

[infernalis]

Heat tapes are pointless in a Savannah cage..

[Pickrel]

ok so no need for flexwatt,just researched what it was, i had a under the tank heater in his old enlcosure, but it was glass, and the packaging on the heat pad states for glass only, so im assuming it wouldnt be smart to use it on wood?

Infernalis, what would you recommend for the heating? does the substrate need heating like that? there will be a setup of 3-4 light/heat sources on the hot/basking side of the enclosure, and the cool side will have the Black box with the UV lights etc.. also, im looking at buying the dirt and sand mixture, probably 5 - 6 bags of top soil and a couple bags of the toy sand you can get, then mix it together and place it in, I want to have as much as i can in there, so it will roughly be about 14-19" deep, deeper in the back, and less in the front as the window area i dont want to cover up too much, also when i put the dirt/sand mixture in, should i mist it with water in layers as im filling up, so that the substrate holds humidity etc... ?

[stephanbakir]

They strictly get their heat from lamps? Belly heat isn't important? Would have thought putting flex wat under the substrate would be an ideal method of doing this. (I don't know much about savs, asking to improve my understanding)

[Pickrel]

Thanks for asking Steph, it helps everyone when people ask these kinds of questions :) much appreciated :)

[infernalis]

The basking spot should be right around 130 degrees (F) this results in most of the cage being an oven.

They are diggers by nature, they will spend a certain amount of time where it is cool and damp, and they spend quite a bit of time sitting directly under the lamps.

I have taken chomper out before when he was hot to pick up, and sometimes I will pick him up and he's only in the neighborhood of 70 ~ 80 or so degrees.

Belly heat is not so important. If you want, lay a slate or flat stone in the cage directly under the lights, the stone will heat up and your sav can sit on it.

[Pickrel]

Hey could you guys look at this link, its a top soil, could you tell me if it would be usuable in the tank? i dont want to put the wrong stuff in

Lawn & Garden Top Soil | Canadian Tire (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/FertilizersGrassSeed/SoilsMixes/PRD~0594802P/Lawn%252B%252526%252BGarden%252BTop%252BSoil/CROSSSELL~0594476%20Scotts%2BEssentials%2BGarden%2 BSoil.jsp?locale=en)

[infernalis]

I don't know.. I see words like "formulated" and "Stimulates" makes me suspect additives.

[Pickrel]

Hey ,

what about this stuff?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/FertilizersGrassSeed/SoilsMixes/PRDOVR~0594568P/Black%252BEarth.jsp?locale=en

[Jay]

I used about 4 bags of this dirt
Google Image Result for http://lh4.google.com/image/kkettler/RnkrMbKt_tI/AAAAAAAABHU/rh2BFgfJkVA/s400/Live%20Show%20064.jpg (http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://lh4.google.com/image/kkettler/RnkrMbKt_tI/AAAAAAAABHU/rh2BFgfJkVA/s400/Live%2520Show%2520064.jpg&imgrefurl=http://iwetmyplants.com/2007/06/&usg=__b_43H_q4Z4ZB_pOZZanODrobfgQ=&h=400&w=300&sz=46&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=JHKRW51IQoBr4M:&tbnh=133&tbnw=95&ei=xvXSTe-XC4-2sAP17bzCCQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dorganic%2Btop%2Bsoil%26um%3D1%26hl%3D en%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D584%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=547&vpy=218&dur=0&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=102&ty=216&sqi=2&page=1&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:0)

[bighog85]

It will take a lot of bags of dirt to fill that enclosure. The best thing to do is get it from a place that sells it in bulk. Just have them load up the back of a truck with a tractor and then shovel it in back home. The bags will work but it will be seriously expensive. The dirt in my 8'x4' cage cost like $15. You'll will be spending a LOT more than that with bags.

[Pickrel]

Yeah I just purchased 10 bags of Black Earth top soil, and about 5 bags of play sand, will go from there, i could probably go out to the sand pit here and get sand and dirt, seeing as were so far north we dont have very many bad insects like fleas etc... and that sort, and it gets bloody cold up here in the winter as well.

[stephanbakir]

How much are top soil bags there, they are like 7$ ea here.

[Pickrel]

The Black Earth Topsoil bags i got were 2.39$ a bag, and the playsand was 4.19$ a bag

[stephanbakir]

Must have been looking at the wrong sand then, the cheapest i found was like 6$.
There is a gravel quarry close to my place, any idea if they sell to people or just companies?

[infernalis]

I feel spoiled rotten then. The clay soil from my creek banks is so nice.

The sediments are washed, sorted and ready to just scoop up. :)

[stephanbakir]

Bah, between the garbage and the fact that all of the water in my immediate area is loaded with mercury i wouldn't trust the soil

[infernalis]

Then I'll shut up.

[Pickrel]

Ok here are some pictures of the enclosure at my house now, its still being setup but here is what i got done so far lol, i was sweating by the end of it lol

[stephanbakir]

Lookin' good!

[Pickrel]

and some more

[infernalis]

awesome.........

[Dehlida]

Looks good, glad to see someone getting a sav, and actually knowing how to take care of it properly. Keep us posted.

[Pickrel]

:) Thanks everyone :), Im all too happy with Rusty, he has quite the personality, and he is quite the tempermental Sav when you pick him up , well he is good when you pick him up initially, but if you set him down he doesnt want to get picked back up lol, so taking him out of the cage is a problem sometimes haha,

But I really owe my knowledge that I now have to Infernalis and a few others, Infern is the only one I can remember the name at the moment, other then Steph.

So a BIG Thank you to Wayne (I think thats your name lol) I wouldnt have been able to accomplish all this without your Excellent knowledge and advice :), if I lived closer I would buy you a 24 of canadian beer ;) much better then that water downed american stuff haha just kiddin, but no really it is better haha

[Pickrel]

So a Good buddy at work , his family has a Bearded Dragon, and they can no longer properly care for it, well I can honestly say that there probably making a lot mistakes, his temps are probably not what there supposed to be i dont think.

So they called me the other night and asked me if i wanted to buy Isa (there Dragon, he is roughly a year or a bit more old, and probably only about 12" tops) so Im seriously considering it, as I have Rustys old tank that will be empty once i get him into the larger enclosure, and my tank is bigger then the one Isa is in now, i think they got him in a 24" L by 12" wide and like 18" high, I have the largest Exoterra terrarium available, they have one or two steps down.

So the question is, since I already have Rusty, and both the beardy and sav are insect lovers , could someone tell me a bit more about Beardys if you have knowledge of them? I have a mixture of sand / repti bark in the tank Isa would be in right now, with a large water bowl / container (its a old peice of a water fountian thats really heavy duty lol) I know bearded dragons dont need as high temps as savs, do they need the humidity like savs though? since there a dessert lizard im assuming?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Dehlida]

No, beardies do not need the same temps or humidity that savs do. Monitors in general require much higher temps, basking temps, and humidity than the vast majority of other species available.

The other thing you need to watch out for, is sand with beardies. I don't know how many people have told me about using some sand, and the beardie has decided to ingest it due to poor nutrition (which your friend's probably has from the sounds of it), and ended up impacting.

[Pickrel]

Hey, I got rusty in his new enclosure now, he spent the first hour trying to find a escape hatch it seemed lol, and circling the cage, rubbing his nose against the lexon and actually climbing the walls a bit lol, he seems to be a lot more active in the bigger cage though :), which makes me happy :)

here are some pics so far,

[stephanbakir]

I love how hes sunning himself and his eye is looking straight at the camera lol.

[Pickrel]

So a few quick questions :)

Question #1 -- is it normal for Rusty to be so adamant in trying to get out of the new home lol? he is constantly trying to climb the walls by using the upper platforms as a boost sorta, he doesnt do it constantly but enough for me to notice lol, also in the pics where i have the water container, do you guys see a problem if i put the container on the left upper platform? it may keep more dirt out of it??
== that was sorta 2 or 3 questions lol sorry

Question #2 -- with the heightened space and activity, what should i watch for?? in regards to Rustys health etc....

[infernalis]

bigger enclosure will always equal more activity.

also Rusty will calm down, right now it's time to examine the cage for possible escape opportunities.

[Pickrel]

How will I know if the the Top soil i got isnt good? or if there is any issues with it etc...? its really black so he does get quite dirtied up but i figured thats just life lol, I think im gonna try and feed him up on the platforms that are raised, that and i am gonna go hunting for a nice long big flat rock i can set under his basking lights.

[stephanbakir]

As Wayne said hes in explore mode, just give him time.

[Pickrel]

Ok a urgent question needing a urgent response, is it normal for my lizard to stay in one spot for a long period of time? last night when i came home he was laying sleeping under one of the boxs in the enclosure, on the hot side, and this morning he was in the same spot, so i moved the box and made some noise to see if he was still alive, he popped his eye open, but he didnt really move, now he is still in the same spot but has turned around a bit, should i be concerned???

[stephanbakir]

Toss some food in there and see how he reacts, chances are hes just warming himself, whats the temperature where hes at now?

[Pickrel]

the hot side is between 113 and 120 or so usually

[Pickrel]

So he seems to be doing a lot better, he just happened to be in super lazy mode that day i guess, he has been moving around and such, and he actually is using the bud light beer box bottom as a shelter and moving it around the enclosure as he needs it.

[Pickrel]

Update on Rusty :)

He is doing great, he has actually made is own burrows throughout the enclosure, which suprised me as most ive heard say that theres dont dig, makes me happy to know he is behaving more like a normal wild sav i guess :)

I pick up my Bearded Dragon on Friday, almost have his tank all setup, just need to ready his enclosure a bit more and he will have a new home :)

[SpOoKy]

I love Beardies!

[stephanbakir]

Beardies???

[SpOoKy]

Bearded Dragons

[stephanbakir]

I know what a beardie is lol, that's a Savannah monitor lol. They are nothing alike :P

[SpOoKy]

that's a Savannah monitor lol. They are nothing alike :P

I know that, you asked Beardies???

Beardies???

[infernalis]

This...............

So a Good buddy at work , his family has a Bearded Dragon, and they can no longer properly care for it, well I can honestly say that there probably making a lot mistakes, his temps are probably not what there supposed to be i dont think.

So they called me the other night and asked me if i wanted to buy Isa (there Dragon, he is roughly a year or a bit more old, and probably only about 12" tops) so Im seriously considering it, as I have Rustys old tank that will be empty once i get him into the larger enclosure, and my tank is bigger then the one Isa is in now, i think they got him in a 24" L by 12" wide and like 18" high, I have the largest Exoterra terrarium available, they have one or two steps down.

So the question is, since I already have Rusty, and both the beardy and sav are insect lovers , could someone tell me a bit more about Beardys if you have knowledge of them? I have a mixture of sand / repti bark in the tank Isa would be in right now, with a large water bowl / container (its a old peice of a water fountian thats really heavy duty lol) I know bearded dragons dont need as high temps as savs, do they need the humidity like savs though? since there a dessert lizard im assuming?

Any help would be appreciated.

[stephanbakir]

Bah I suck at paying attention lately :(

[infernalis]

Bah I suck at paying attention lately :(

I was confused until I read back about 8 posts.. no biggie.


Pickrel should post a separate question thread.

[stephanbakir]

You should smell kragars snake bag lol, got musked in by all of them rofl.

[Pickrel]

If you re-read my last post steph you will understand his term of beardies ;)

[Pickrel]

lol i see you did haha, yeah i should probably open another thread lol, but Isa isnt here yet lol

[SpOoKy]

Sorry I caused all this confusion, I LOV SAV"S!!! :)

[stephanbakir]

Most monitors are awesome:P

[Pickrel]

Hey,

Rustys cage is usually around 30-40% humidity, sometimes lower if i have the 3rd solarglo on to raise the temps, how the hell do i keep the Humidity up to higher levels??? my tank is huge so i have a 250w ceramic heater and a 100w infrared heat bulb over one of the platforms and then a 150w solarglo which provides heat and the uvb stuff ??

[stephanbakir]

Mister/fogger? A waterfall? cover any places humidity escapes

[infernalis]

the plains of Africa are not rain forest.. periodic humidity and periodic dry spells are normal.

My humidity varies a lot, on some days if Chomper's dirt seems dusty, I spray the heck out of his cage. a few days later it gets dusty again.

just make sure you have a big water bowl, keep fresh water in it and you will be fine.

[Pickrel]

Cool :) thats what i was hoping to hear, so im good for humidity as it ranges from 15-80 depending on when i look at the meter and how soon i had sprayed the cage lol.

[Freebody]

the plains of Africa are not rain forest.. periodic humidity and periodic dry spells are normal.

My humidity varies a lot, on some days if Chomper's dirt seems dusty, I spray the heck out of his cage. a few days later it gets dusty again.

just make sure you have a big water bowl, keep fresh water in it and you will be fine.
this is good news, i water mine the same way im sure you do, with a few liters of water at a time, so yoshi's cage is the same way, it goes from real humid to dry then i rehydrate the cage and i keep lots of fresh water in their at all times

[Max713]

the plains of Africa are not rain forest.. periodic humidity and periodic dry spells are normal.

My humidity varies a lot, on some days if Chomper's dirt seems dusty, I spray the heck out of his cage. a few days later it gets dusty again.

just make sure you have a big water bowl, keep fresh water in it and you will be fine.

Cool :) thats what i was hoping to hear, so im good for humidity as it ranges from 15-80 depending on when i look at the meter and how soon i had sprayed the cage lol.

A variance in ambient humidity, yes that's fine, although 15% is too low at any time.
No matter what your ambient humidity is, your Sav ALWAYS needs a burrow, or equivalent, providing a humidity percentage in the 70-90 range.
A humid burrow is 10 times as important as a humid ambient environment.
Wayne is right in saying the African Savannah's are sometimes dry/arid regions, and this is why Sav's dig burrows, this is why you need 18-24" (preferably 24) of moist substrate in your Sav's enclosure to support a burrow.
You cannot replicate this with a humid hide. A sav needs a burrow, or at least something close.

[Pickrel]

**UPDATE**

Its been a while since I have been on here, but I have been busy with work and such, so Rusty my Sav is doing pretty good I think, he is roughly about 26-28" now and has become quite the burrower lol and escape artist! Yes he has escaped 3 times last weekend, at first i had no idea where from, but finally figured out he was somehow climbing his way over one of the lamp covers and squeezing through the small 2.5-3" hole , which i found funny as he looks too fat for it lol, but needless to say i spent a good hour on a sunday morning trying to get him back in the cage and it was annoying as hell lol.

Since he doesnt care for being touched or picked up and will hiss and puff up etc.. whenever i attempt to put my hand near him, so it was a interesting sight since i had to put a jacket and gloves on so he wouldnt tear my arm apart in the process.

He seems to really really love Raw Shrimp, and Superworms are his favorite at the moment. Ive managed to keep his humidity levels above 35% usually there around 50-60 but i spray again once it drops to 30 or so. I know these probably arent ideal but it seems to be harder to keep humidity in even in the wooden enclosure, i spray like 2L or more of water in there and soak the substrate. any ideas would be welcome :)

I will Post new pics soon :) just trying to get back into the swing of things again.

[SnakeyJay]

What are you using to heat the enclosure? Ive got infra red bulbs and thry tend to dry the air out.. but a good misting solves that.

[Freebody]

i use infa red bulbs i get from home depot, like 10$ for the 250wats and i get the red colored ones so its not so bright.