dog problems figured i'd ask

[Reptile_Reptile]

Ok so i have a few dogs. and im hoping at least one of you can help me with a few problems i have with them.
first off one of my dogs is extremely submissive i mean ridiculously, she has no reason to act this way we love her but whenever you get a lil stern (btw this is a we think there might be a slight amount of english pit but not much) she hunkers down with her legs apart and her tail between her legs and pees a little, and she does this even if we are telling her to sit so we can giver her a treat. so im asking on this part how do i up her confidence so she doesnt do this.
second problem has to do with the same dog, and another dog of ours, our English pit she is younger then the whip-it/pit but fully grown. and if the two are in the same vicinity they will fight. we haven't let them fight it out we always jump in and accept some collateral damage. So because of this they are constantly separated and have no access to each other and its a pain to rotate them. so on this one im asking how do i get them to stop fighting or what should i do.
(btw to any who remember my post on another thread that said i had a pointer i was wrong it is the whipit)
thanks guys i appreciate any help and if this is confusing or you need more specifics just ask.

[Wolfus_305]

hi,

I've got two dogs, male and female (dutch and german shepherds)
Since we got the puppy dutch shepherd our 3 year old german shepherd seems a lot more .. i can't think of the word, sort of calm to the extreme. I think it's because the puppy tires him out (she's a bit of a nut case) :P

have you had the dogs together since they were puppies? maybe it's stress if one dog is the clear alpha of the pack or if the introduction of a new dog is just too stressful for the existing one.

When the dogs are together (which is any time somebody is home, otherwise puppy is crated because her nickname is "destroyer") they bark at each other and jump and nip, but it's all fun and games, nobody gets hurt and they take breaks when they get tired or hear something. Or are your dogs fighting aggressively to the point where if you didn't intervene somebody would be hurt? (that again could be the alpha asserting dominance)

I hope everything works out well!
Kendra

[Reptile_Reptile]

um no the whip-it/eng pit is about 3 years older then the english pit. and they lived side by side for 3 years and we got the english pit as a puppy. she is now full grown and a clearly dominant dog. my other dog accepted the submissive role with grace.
but to address your fighting question. i have no doubt they would fight to the death. and the english pit would obviously win. even in seconds before we can stop them my whipit get seriously fubar and has to be taken to the vet. and she is the one who initiates the fight. she runs full boar at the other one if seen and jumps on her back. the english pit never has initiated it.

[Wolfus_305]

hmm, sounds to me like it could be a combo of stress/anxiety caused by such a dominant role in the other dog.

this is the training I used about a year and a half ago. He was very knowledgeable, he was a very intense trainer and it worked. the hard work paid off almost immediately, it was amazing. you could try emailing him and asking? when i was calling around looking for dog trainers he spoke to me for an hour and a half on the phone, more than willing to help out and answer questions I had. Dog Obedience Training | Toronto, Canada | Danno Schut (http://www.happy-dog-obedience.com/)

Good luck! keep us updated!

[Reptile_Reptile]

i live in the states and i cant make phone calls out of country but i'll e-mail him. thank you.
i just find it odd. because i have enforced the role of leader to me by eating first then feeding, walking through doors first, and proper leash technique to try and avoid similar problems.

[Reptile_Reptile]

i sent the man an e-mail. if there is anything any of you can suggest please add

[Wolfus_305]

I hope he replies and can help!

Hmm the puppy is the dominant one of my two dogs. if they are both outside and we say "sit" before they come in the door the german shepherd won't sit because the puppy will chew at his ears, he sort of has a reluctance and what could almost be called submissiveness when he is around the puppy, if she isn't within chewing distance he listens to and follows commands right away. that's what makes me think it's a dominance thing. dogs are pack animals and they need an alpha, that's just how they are.

Good luck!

[Reptile_Reptile]

yes i know they need a dominant figure and i tried to have that be me. the english pitt (her name is mary jane and the whipit/pitt is baby im going to call them that now) is the dominant one but she submits to me exactly how she should which is why im so confused as to how to stop them because yes mary jane is more dominant but they all recognize me as leader. in every sense of the dog meaning of the word, and they listen 100% i dont even need to leash my dogs to have them walk a half pace behind me and to my side and they dont run off unless i say they can. i was very proud of my dog training skills untill this happened (btw i still do use the leash because its law and common manners. btw they are not dog aggressive, only to each other.

[Reptile_Reptile]

He contacted me pretty quick. He wants me to call him but i dont have that capability on my phone, so im going to borrow a friends in a day or two and talk to him.

[Wolfus_305]

that's good at least, hopefully he can offer some suggestions :)
Good luck with everything!

[mld]

Was your Whippit once a race dog that you adopted?
I know with the grey hounds it can take a while for them to feel comfortable.

[ilovemypets1988]

i know a few things about dog behaviour that may help.

i will start with the convidence issue first;
as the 2 dogs fight, thers obviously a submissive and a dominent (sorry cant spell very well lol), the lack in convidence could very well be due to this and as both dogs go in the same room (maybe not at the same time), then both of there individual smells will be in the room, therefore causing stress and the need to be submissive all the time.
theres several ways to bring up a dogs convidence but the first thing is to make sure that u trust the dog and that the dog trusts you. if you have a park or large open area near you, put the dog on a rather long lead or piece of rope and give her more room so that you can let her run for quite a distance away from you and then (with a treat in your hand) kneel down and call her to you and once she comes offer her the treat, then just repeat the process until she no longer pees, another thing to try is to take her for a walk just u and her, build up a bond with her, she will learn to trust you and as she does her convidence with build up aswel.

the fighting;
by the sounds of it there 2 bitches, if the fighting started suddenly, then it could be because 1 of them has come into season, if not then its more than likely to be the lack of convidence in 1 of the dogs as this will change the atmosphere that surrounds the dogs when they are together and cause fights, this should settle down when the convidence issue is resolved.

i hope that this has helped

[TCS-bot]

Some of a dogs behaviour can be partially put down to breed as well, we have a black lab that wees if my voice is heard in a stern manner.
She wasn't like that until one day when working on my bike I slipped and knuckle scraped on the patio and swore rather loudly, and stepped backwards and put most of my weight on her tail.

She also does a small pee sometimes when she's excited.


......and another dog of ours, our English pit.....

Can you confirm that breed, I'm assuming you are saying an English Pit bull, if so then I can't figure out what dog it is as pit bulls are illegal in this country, and there are no English pit bulls as a recognised breed.
Or are you referring to the English Bull Terrier??
Bull Terrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Terrier)

[Sapphyr]

You mean down to experiences. Just because a dog is this or that breed doesn't mean it's going to act this or that way. Pit bulls are commonly misunderstood as violent dogs and that's all they ever will be but that is WRONG. I own a Pit Bull, she's very submissive, sweet, and loving. She gets along with the other dogs and is even submissive to them despite them being half her size(they're toy breeds). It's when irresponsible idiots breed dogs for aggression or raise them improperly that the dog becomes aggressive. Yes, you can breed a dog for aggression, meaning any dog, no matter the breed, can be aggressive if it's just a common trait in their gene pool. It's sad that people do it, but they do. A dog can also be aggressive based on passed experiences in their lives. Same goes for other behaviors such as submissiveness, being frightened of certain things, etc.

I've often heard that when two dogs fight, if the owner turns around and starts making a ruckus, the dog will think they're being rewarded because they got attention from you. It's a very confusing thing to hear since, if the dogs fight, how are you going to get them to stop fighting without giving them attention?

I'd recommend taking them both to a neutral ground. A dog park, a public area(though you may want this to be a decently secluded area as to not frighten people should they still go at it), etc. Take them to a place that they don't know and can't claim as their domain. Mary Jane just may think the house is her territory, as far as dogs go, and when Baby(that's the name, right?) steps into sight, Mary Jane becomes infuriated that Baby is in her territory, thus becoming hostile, trying to defend this territory.

Yes, you may be thinking,"How do I get two dogs that want to fight to transport to an area away from home without having a fight?" Try two cars. If you don't have a parent to help you, significant other, etc., try and ask a friend to help you. Hopefully you can work something out.

Be sure to have them on a leash, I'm sure you would, but it is important. When at the neutral ground, restrict the space between them. If Mary Jane approaches calmly, allow a little more space, gradually granting more if she stays calm. It's really good if she calmly inspects Baby rather than going at her throat. Let her inspect for a few seconds, then take her back. Repeat this a few times just so Mary Jane can try and see Baby in a new perspective and maybe get to know her a bit more. If Mary Jane is acting aggressive as you approach Baby, just turned back around, don't give her the satisfaction of coming any closer until she's calmed back down after being removed. Teach her Baby is a good thing, not a bad thing, and she'll only get to see Baby if she's calm. Calm is good, Baby is good. This is what she needs to learn.

The reason I say,"let her inspect calmly then take her back", is because, even if she's inspecting calmly, tension can still be building up inside. Stress, anger, whatever it is, it can build up despite outwards behavior, and you really don't want that tension to snap while Mary Jane is that close to Baby. So just let her inspect for 5 - 10 seconds, turn back, treat. Not only are you removing tension by taking her back, but the treat will further reinforce that this behavior is good, as well as Baby being good. The treat will, also, help kill tension from building up since it's a positive experience and will hopefully take any negativity from coming into contact with Baby.

Hopefully this should help, but it will take time. It's obviously not something that's going to happen over night and may take several weeks to resolve. Just be patient.

Edit: Some socialization doesn't sound like a bad idea, either. How often do they get out to see other dogs? They're adults, yes, but socialization is good at any stage in a dog's life and is vital. Do you have a local pet store that allows dogs and other animals to walk in with their owners? Our PetSmart allows people to bring their pets, so I often take my dogs there to socialize with others.

I really wish my parents would do the same with their pugs, but they don't have enough time for them. I really hate to see that because they're restricted to themselves, for the most part. I especially hate to see it happen to the newest pug, she's only 1 1/2 years old and already showing signs of aggression to other dogs besides the two pugs she stays with all day. I'd love for my puppy to play with her, since they're both young, but last I tried this, she attacked him, so I can't trust her with him. I really wish my parents were more responsible with their animals and would listen to what I'm trying to tell them. They think I'm just full of it when I say they're stepping on their dogs' quality of life because they don't have enough time to properly train, socialize, and play with them. They see the world's happiest dogs and perfect little angels. I see the world's grumpiest, unhappy, brat behaved dogs to ever exist.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Can you confirm that breed, I'm assuming you are saying an English Pit bull, if so then I can't figure out what dog it is as pit bulls are illegal in this country, and there are no English pit bulls as a recognised breed.
Or are you referring to the English Bull Terrier??
ummm the mum was a American pittbull and the father was a english bullterrier, the slang for that is english pitt.
the fighting;
by the sounds of it there 2 bitches, if the fighting started suddenly, then it could be because 1 of them has come into season, if not then its more than likely to be the lack of convidence in 1 of the dogs as this will change the atmosphere that surrounds the dogs when they are together and cause fights, this should settle down when the convidence issue is resolved.
they started gradually actually an occasional fight. and at a certain point i separated them for a day and ever since then its been a fight to the death.
Mary Jane just may think the house is her territory
baby is the aggresor mary jane is never doing anything baby will realize she is around and attack.
Some socialization doesn't sound like a bad idea, either. How often do they get out to see other dogs? They're adults, yes, but socialization is good at any stage in a dog's life and is vital.
they are socialized to the point where they dont just attack other dogs. but i do not trust them free roaming with other animals aside from my cat which they all grew up with because he is the oldest.
You mean down to experiences. Just because a dog is this or that breed doesn't mean it's going to act this or that way.
side topic- this is not true he is exactly correct, Dog breeds do determine their relative personalities like a golden yellow lab has a strong small animal aggression because for thousands of years they were bred to chase birds out of bush nests and retreive geese and ducks from water when they were shot down. and bloodhounds have a strong hunt reflex because they were bred to sniff out foreign smells (or in most cases fox's) and run them down. just like for thousands of years Pitts were bred to be guardians. they have a strong territory reflex. its all in the nature. not saying it makes them bad dogs but what we have done to them has made this true.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Was your Whippit once a race dog that you adopted?
I know with the grey hounds it can take a while for them to feel comfortable.
oh and no we saved her, her previous home bred whippits to help their american pitts learn to fight, "because they are fast and weak" (they are in prison) she was 2 months so i doubt this is an underlying cause

[candyraver69]

oh and no we saved her, her previous home bred whippits to help their american pitts learn to fight, "because they are fast and weak" (they are in prison) she was 2 months so i doubt this is an underlying cause

it's still very possible. what happens to infants can effect the rest of their life. even if those bad people hadn't fought her yet, you have to think that dog probably heard and witnessed some awful stuff, yeah?

maybe the one dog is attacking not because she wants to be dominant but because she is scared and its a preemptive strike? have you noticed anything that seems to be the same with what's going on when she attacks?

maybe its because she knows you will save her? does it happen only when you are close or all the time? just throwing out the possibility, if it happens all the time I doubt it's that.

as all breeds, pit bulls do have some characteristics. they seem to be a hot topic for debate that people go nuts over. some people hate them, others adore them, usually both sides are so extreme that they aren't thinking. it's good you know what they were bred for and know that means they aren't bad dogs. I rarely see anyone else in the middle ground on this issue!

I hope you get it figured out. Fighting pets is never fun. I'm dealing with my own round of it with my ratties right now. Trouble is I can't tell who's doing what because they do it in their hides where I can't see and stop by the time I open the cage :S

[TCS-bot]

Rephrase with better punctuation:

Some of a dogs behaviour can be partially put down to breed as well.
We have a black lab that wees if my voice is heard in a stern manner.........


I was trying to say that some of a dogs instinctive nature cannot be helped, regardless of the owner.
I know that everyone says punish the owner and not the breed, I agree with that completely as dogs that are allegedly vicious will be lovely dogs if kept by people that care for the dogs and raise them properly.
However some of ANY dogs instinctive nature is still there.
Huskys will still pull, Pointers will still point, Collies will still herd.



Anyway, back to the thread in hand.
I've just had a another read of the thread, and I'm wondering if the poster above me (or 2) has got something with the pre-emptive strike bit.
As you said the whippit was rescued from somewhere that used to keep them to train fighting dogs, so there's also a chance that it's got a fair bit of neurological damage as well, all to often when people keep animals to use as fight animals they wont often be looked after very well, to encourage a bit of 'fight back'

[Reptile_Reptile]

have you noticed anything that seems to be the same with what's going on when she attacks?

she runs as fast as only a whipit can run and jumps on her back. every time without fail. and it doesnt only happen when im there, other people have had to pull them apart.

maybe its because she knows you will save her?
i cant help that because Mary jane would kill her. im positive of it she is much larger with a bigger head and has like 20-30 pounds on her there is no real competition.

animals to use as fight animals they wont often be looked after very well, to encourage a bit of 'fight back'
when we got her she went to the vet and everything checked out.

I rarely see anyone else in the middle ground on this issue!
Thats because we take all the fire.

[Sapphyr]

As long as you know it's our fault, it's good. And Candy, I do think. I personally own a pit bull. She's an angel, best dog I could have ever asked for, but I know some pits aren't so charming. It can be a genetic thing(people specifically breeding for aggression/hostility), or past experiences(neurological; abuse). And yes, any dog breed will have their natural instincts. I've stated this before in regards to snakes, cats, etc. Cats will instinctively hunt mice, birds, etc.(unless they're just too lazy, like mine). Snakes will still bite you if they think you're food. I've never doubted instincts, I'm just saying that it's not always the breed. Sometimes it's just people or experience. I just hate it when people make pit bulls look bad or hate pit bulls for the wrong reasons(what the media has built them up to be).

At any rate, sorry, I got the two mixed up then. At any rate, I'd still think the thing with having them on a leash and allowing them to gradually progress to inspecting each other calmly is something you should try. Treats are always a great enforcer for good behaviors and things you want to continue to see. Just switch Baby as the one to approach and Mary Jane as the one to sit and be inspected. Should either of them act hostile, just turn around and walk away(obviously taking them with you LOL).

Of course, you'll eventually have to 'ween' treats from this and give praise instead, when this does happen, give them both praise. You don't want the other to become jealous. Treats are just a crutch until you're positive they've got this down and can have praise as a substitute.

It could also be down to size. I know my parents' pugs felt really stressed out when Zoey first came around since she loomed over them. It took several months for them to finally accept her. Now they just get grumpy over how active she is(2/3 of the pugs are old, grumpy dogs). Baby could feel intimidated by Mary Jane's size, and that doesn't always mean a dog is going to back down because of that. Sometimes, dogs do stupid things, even if the odds look slim to them. Impulsive, I guess is the word.