Venomous - to keep or not to keep

[percey39]

Im just starting this thread to see how many members are interested in keeping venomous species later on. I would love to hear some responses on why you wish to keep them? When if ever you would like to own them? If you agree that keeping them privately is a good thing for the hobby?
Im not looking to start an arguement, but to have a good solid discussion/debate. I know that more often than not this subject seems to get a bit heated but im hoping that this can stay cival.

I will start. I have been keeping venomous species for a long period of time now. I got into venomous species purely because they were the reason i started keeping snakes in the first place. I have always found that the most beautiful animals seem to be the most deadly. There has always been an attraction to the fact that these animals are so deadly, yet only become aggressive if stirred or annoyed.
I think private keeping of these animals needs to be controlled more as there are far too many inexperienced people jumping in over their head with out the proper training or skills. Remember that these animals have and will kill again if not treated with the respect they deserve. In saying that though i have been more concerned with young people purchasing the monster pythons as there is no antivenom for lack of oxygen.

Well thats enough from me for now. I look forward to your responses.

Cheers Aaron

[infernalis]

Oh it will stay civil.

[percey39]

I do hope so Wayne! Im sick of this subject being overtaken by ridiculous accusations and what not. If not feel free to delete this thread when ever you feel the need.

[Jay]

I have no plans on keeping hots but i think it is great for the hobby as long as the keeper is knowledgeable and experienced .

[percey39]

I believe that there needs to be manditory training and husbandry courses for people interested in starting out. I understand that at the moment you can just go out and purchase or over your way catch and keep them when ever you want to. To most a mentor is a necessity but how many people follow guide lines.

[red ink]

I believe that there needs to be manditory training and husbandry courses for people interested in starting out. I understand that at the moment you can just go out and purchase or over your way catch and keep them when ever you want to. To most a mentor is a necessity but how many people follow guide lines.

Same thing our way mate... the difference where we are between being able to keep a bearded dragon and a death adder or a taipan is about $70 to upgrade the license to an advance and nothing more...

[percey39]

Same thing our way mate... the difference where we are between being able to keep a bearded dragon and a death adder or a taipan is about $70 to upgrade the license to an advance and nothing more...

I know mate, its quite a frustrating licensing system that we have. As it would seem to be a complete waste of time with our licensing in Victoria.

[red ink]

I know mate, its quite a frustrating licensing system that we have. As it would seem to be a complete waste of time with our licensing in Victoria.

Yeah there should be an approved handling course attached to it as a pre-requisite when aquiring elapids. Just goes to show you that the whole licensing system for the welfare of animals can be a joke sometimes.. Though good for some things they just don't have the forethought to fllow it through properly. I for one have no intention of keeping elapids... though not against people keeping them either. What I'm against would be the ease of accessability towards them without a screening process of competance.

[percey39]

What I'm against would be the ease of accessability towards them without a screening process of competance.

Could not have said it better mate!

[Sapphyr]

Venomous snakes intrigue me but I don't think I'll ever be owning one seeing as how I'll, hopefully, have a husband at some point and maybe a kid or two, and keeping said animals would be a large risk considering I doubt my other would be trained to deal with them and certainly any kids would not be, and lord forbid if they were to escape...

They intrigue me, but besides the above stated, I'm only a beginner snake owner. They intrigue because, like you said, many of them are so very gorgeous. Also, not to sound like an idiot or anything, but there's a certain thrill with keeping such an animal. At the same time, this 'thrill' keeps me weary as well, since, should I ever be bitten, I doubt there are antivenoms readily available in my area or areas I plan on moving to.

They're interesting, but they're not for me.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3319/3420152940_9603e6c102_z.jpg?zz=1

Water Moccasin

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3363223922_c911116631.jpg

Scaleless Death Adder

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3633/3362407311_8142bce011_z.jpg?zz=1

'Nother picture of the Scaleless Death Adder

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/thingsies/EyelashViperr.png

Eyelash Viper

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/thingsies/hornedviper.png

Horned Viper

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2978822083_3448d4c3b0_z.jpg?zz=1

Neotropical Rattlesnake

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/thingsies/ChineseCobra.png

Chinese Cobra

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Coral_009.jpg

Coral Snake

I find all of these beautiful snakes, but they're all venomous </3 (I think) Would be a real delight to own, but I sadly never will.

[percey39]

Kids are my only fear with keeping them. My ex was never a fan of snakes and never really appreciated having venomous species being kept in our house, but she did learn how to hook and tail them as well as all the first aid needed for a bite. This was all done incase i was to ever be bitten and she had to put the snake back and treat my bite site.
Kids are always too eager to try and open cages, this is why my dedicated room is always locked as well as the cages being locked also to try and avoid any chances.

[bo2as]

gorgeous! i definatly agree that alot of the venomuse species are better looking than the nonvenomouse... even the look in thir eyes i find are more intense and "mean" looking. i wish i had the knowledge and training to keep them.. but i dont lol There should deffinatly be more strict conditions with the law on keeping them. Anyway weather they ar deadly or not they are beautiful and on this planet for a reason! its nice to have ppl keep them so that the rest of the world can learn about them and see that they arent all vicious killers like they are sought out to be. BUT it also kinda suck that ppl capture them or buy them and then neglect them because they dont know the proper care! All in all they deserve as much respect as you cat or dog! :)

[Shmoges]

I am quite interested in owning vine snakes and hognosed if that counts as venomous :D

[Damion930]

I would love to own venoms snakes. As already stated they are beautiful and yes I do enjoy the thrill of the dangers they present. I am however torn between my dislike for regulation and my belife that people should have the proper training and education if they are going to undertake the responsibility of keeping them. So I would have to say that within the current system wher ther are risks to the hobby certification of education is in order. Even though truly I belive if some dope wants to get him/herself bit and potentially killed so be it they excepted the risk when they made the decision to keep a venoms animal. Others should not be punished for the mistakes someone else has made.

[Sapphyr]

This topic makes me think of Fatal Attractions and the girl that kept several different snakes, her last and final addition, and the gem of her collection, being a Gaboon. She had poor practices... and when I saw this, I mean the practice she used in cleaning their cages, which ultimately resulted in her death. She'd take the snakes out as she went and let them free roam the house. She had venomous species, maybe non-venomous. Over time she thought she grew immune to venoms, so she thought it was safe to let the Gaboon roam, as well, even if she were bitten. What actually happened though, is she was lucky to be getting dry bites, but she took them as her being immune to the venom, not as dry bites.

So, she was cleaning one day, finished up, and found the Gaboon under a couch or something. Crouched down to the floor and reached under the couch to grab it only to be bitten by it. The venom began working instantly, started bleeding profusely from her nose, vomiting blood, etc.(the venom causes bleeding from any, or most, orifices supposedly). She was found dead in her room holding a note where she'd scribbled a hospital onto it in case someone were to find her in time. The police investigating the scene said it was like someone took a bat to someone and just continuously hit them, blood smeared all over the wall, and it was all over the floor too. She didn't call for anyone in fear that they'd find out about her collection and kill them all.

She was also under the belief that her snakes loved her.


Honestly, Fatal Attractions shouldn't make it seem like this or that or these animals are DANGEROUS and NO ONE should -ever ever ever- own them. Yes, they -are- dangerous, but you can own them and still be relatively safe if you exercise appropriate tactics, care for them properly, and don't do something stupid like what this girl did. Know your facts, don't stray from those -proven- facts. I've heard reptiles lack the part of the brain to recognize a certain person, therefore can't grow attached to a person like a dog or cat would. They can and will still bite if you do the -wrong- thing(they could also just be nippy or defending themselves), no matter what you may think. Also, there's no such thing as immunity to venom. Don't lie to yourself.

The most recent commercial for a new FA showed a women with a Saltwater Croc. The audio had someone saying it's a Saltwater Croc, they have the most powerful body(or jaws, can't remember) than any other on the planet, and that she was going to get herself killed. What I saw, was she wasn't properly handling the(I'd guess) 3 - 5ft.+ long croc, had no form of wrap around the jaws either and it was wriggling wildly in her arms, trying to escape. She was holding it vertically and her arms wrapped around its upper torso, around the area under its arms. Kind of like a hug.

There's a difference between dangerous+never ever owning this animal and dangerous+being ignorant and not giving the proper care or attention to the animal at hand.

[infernalis]

I may get flamed down for this, BUT....

Here in the US you are required to have a license for a handgun, and improper handling of hots will kill you just as dead as the handgun will...

So I do feel that if a person desires keeping such animals, they should have to undergo the same strict requirements as owning a glock.

There is also that risk that if said snake were to escape in a multi family dwelling or a populated neighborhood... I don't think I need say anymore.

YES - certain people with common sense and some education can properly care for venomous snakes, but by the same token, anyone with some money can have a cobra delivered to their front door in 24 hours with a single paypal transaction.

And not exactly all of the people who can click a mouse and enter a bank account number have the common sense or intelligence to handle the animal they just bought.

The worst case scenario for a fool with a python is the snake winds up dead.. The worst case scenario with a hot is a human winds up dead.

Sure, there would be one less fool on the planet to reproduce and spread that stupid gene, however it's the innocent bystanders (children, neighbors, spouse) that I care about.

[totheend]

Even though truly I belive if some dope wants to get him/herself bit and potentially killed so be it they excepted the risk when they made the decision to keep a venoms animal. Others should not be punished for the mistakes someone else has made.

The problem is not the animals just killing the owner....what about innocent people that get killed from some idiots poor handling/keeping practices?

And the hobby as a whole pays the price of others mistakes....that is why bylaws get passed.

[totheend]

I may get flamed down for this, BUT....

Here in the US you are required to have a license for a handgun, and improper handling of hots will kill you just as dead as the handgun will...

So I do feel that if a person desires keeping such animals, they should have to undergo the same strict requirements as owning a glock.

There is also that risk that if said snake were to escape in a multi family dwelling or a populated neighborhood... I don't think I need say anymore.

YES - certain people with common sense and some education can properly care for venomous snakes, but by the same token, anyone with some money can have a cobra delivered to their front door in 24 hours with a single paypal transaction.

And not exactly all of the people who can click a mouse and enter a bank account number have the common sense or intelligence to handle the animal they just bought.

The worst case scenario for a fool with a python is the snake winds up dead.. The worst case scenario with a hot is a human winds up dead.

Sure, there would be one less fool on the planet to reproduce and spread that stupid gene, however it's the innocent bystanders (children, neighbors, spouse) that I care about.

Agree ..........

[percey39]

I may get flamed down for this, BUT....

Here in the US you are required to have a license for a handgun, and improper handling of hots will kill you just as dead as the handgun will...

So I do feel that if a person desires keeping such animals, they should have to undergo the same strict requirements as owning a glock.

There is also that risk that if said snake were to escape in a multi family dwelling or a populated neighborhood... I don't think I need say anymore.

YES - certain people with common sense and some education can properly care for venomous snakes, but by the same token, anyone with some money can have a cobra delivered to their front door in 24 hours with a single paypal transaction.

And not exactly all of the people who can click a mouse and enter a bank account number have the common sense or intelligence to handle the animal they just bought.

The worst case scenario for a fool with a python is the snake winds up dead.. The worst case scenario with a hot is a human winds up dead.

Sure, there would be one less fool on the planet to reproduce and spread that stupid gene, however it's the innocent bystanders (children, neighbors, spouse) that I care about.

Some good points raised Wayne, i completely agree with the licensing system. I do however disagree with the statement about pythons though. Any 3m constrictor can easily kill a human being. Now i see so many photo's of people with 3m+ animals around their shoulders. Some people say free handling hots is stupid but so is putting large constrictors round your neck. As i have stated before there is always antivenoms for hot bites but there is no antivenom or cure for lack of oxygen!

I have neighbours with young children living next door on all sides of my house. I let my hot's cruise around in a certain area of the lawn with strict supervision of course. I know that many would frown apon this but i am competent in stopping an animal trying to make a 10m get away. I will also be looking at making some outdoor enclosures to keep some of my animals perminently outside. This i will be discussing with my neighbours as i feel they have a right to know where abouts i plan to put these pits.

None of this is meant to come across as arguementitive so please dont take it that way.

[percey39]

The problem is not the animals just killing the owner....what about innocent people that get killed from some idiots poor handling/keeping practices?

I dont understand the meaning of this statement? Bad keeping coupled with educating the public is a whole other topic which i feel very strongly about. Demonstrations should be left to qualified and certified competent people in my eye's, but many others have different ideas. I dont mind private demo's to friends or something like that but public demo's are a whole other area.

[infernalis]

I agree, maybe the python was a poor example.

[totheend]

I dont understand the meaning of this statement?



An escapee has potential of hurting other people besides the owner.....

[percey39]

Thanks for furthering and explaining totheend. I agree thats why its compulsory to have a fully sealed and locked escape proof room over here when keeping hot's. I believe this should be a rule/law when owning hot's.

I know where you were coming from Wayne but just had to say that mate.

[Sapphyr]

Agree with Wayne's points and Percey's thing with hots+large constrictors. Also with licensing, but I swore everyone needed licensing for hots.. I'm guessing you don't in some areas? And by Wayne's statement, I guess some people that buy hots online via Paypal or some other services aren't checked for a license showing they're fully capable of being responsible with such an animal?

[Damion930]

I think the problem sapphyr is that in somplaces you can pay for a licence but ther is no educational requirements or certification proving your abilities to properly handle and keep them. I think its a misleading belief that if they are responsible enough to get a license then they must have educated themselves and be responsible enough to safely keep them.

[Sapphyr]

Ohhhh... Wow, really? That's a shame.. They should really clean up the licensing thing then. It's terrible to think some people have a license but may not even have knowledge on how to properly handle, house, etc. such an animal. :c They need some sort of test to prove you're educated enough or have a series of classes with a test at the end to make sure you've absorbed the information given and know the risks and needs.

[Lankyrob]

In the Uk to keep non venomous snakes is easy, to get hots you require not only training and exam passes to get a license but you are also inspected randomly at least once per year to ensure that your husbandry, handling techniques and security for the animals and humans are all top notch. The regulations go as far as you having to have a notice outside of the house stating that venomous animals are being kept inside as well as on your snake room door (they must be kept behind a locked door within the house) and also on each cage there must be a large clear sticker stating what the snake is and that it is venomous.

Yes i would like to keep venomous snakes in the future. I already have a mentor lined up who luckily for me is also an experienced tutor for those looking for a license to keep hots.

I wont have them in the house until my daughter is at least in her teen years and maybe not until she has left home.

[infernalis]

I swore everyone needed licensing for hots.. I'm guessing you don't in some areas? And by Wayne's statement, I guess some people that buy hots online via Paypal or some other services aren't checked for a license showing they're fully capable of being responsible with such an animal?


Here is a page from a popular classified ad service... anyone with money can order.. and this is just the cobra listing! the viper listings had 49 ads.

The listings with gaboons, bushmasters & puff adders has another 34 ads.

Total, that is nearly 100 advertisements for the worlds deadliest snakes that anyone with a bit of cash can order.

http://www.reptard.info/ssnakess/hots.gif

[Jendee]

I don't agree with keeping hots, even with a license things happen. What if you get bit and your by yourself. Why risk it because its a beautiful snake and you just have to have it?? Or even with someone there alot of venomous snakes have limb deteriorating ingredients, I think keeping my fingers is more important ;) Obviously some hots are needed for scientific or anti venom reason but as far as the hobbyist goes I thinks it naive to think your safe.

[Jendee]

see one of the reason I dont think keeping hots is a good idea..this is from a rattle snake bite..they had to remove all damaged tissue from the arm..and close it back up over several months according to the article
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/image003.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/image002.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/image004.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/image007.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg283/cpblsoup/image013.jpg

[BlindOne]

I don't see a problem with keeping hots if you are smart about it. I think FL has a good system in place, you must show 1000 hours of working with the animals and have two keepers vouch for you. That seems reasonable to me.

I started with venomous when I was 20 and kept an amazing variety of stuff until I was ~30. Rattlesnakes, cobras, gabbies, lots of tree vipers (Atheris, Bothriechis, Trimeresurus), copperheads, etc. Never came close to being bitten, and I bred several species. Amazing amazing animals. They really aren't that difficult to work with, just good common sense and the proper tools.

I'm done with them now that I have children, I'd NEVER risk a child's curiosity with venomous. Just a tragedy waiting to happen. After the children are gone though, who knows? My wife, a biologist, isn't opposed to me keeping them.

[Will0W783]

I think FL has a good system in place, you must show 1000 hours of working with the animals and have two keepers vouch for you. That seems reasonable to me.

This should be the case in all states and countries. While I find venomous snakes absolutely beautiful, I do not feel that I ever will trust myself to keep the deadly ones. I have a hognose, a FWC, and a mangrove snake. I only ever handle the mangrove by hooking and tailing him while wearing 2 layers of gloves, hooded sweatshirt and glasses. Mangrove snakes are not even deadly, but one can have tissue necrosis and a bad reaction. He was from a friend who could not keep him and will probably be rehomed once I am sure he is healthy enough to a responsible keeper than I personally approve. I think Gaboon vipers and king cobras are some of the most beautiful and amazing reptiles, but the risk is just too great for me. All it would take is one tiny mistake, one day of being off my game, and I could be dead. I prefer to admire them from afar, but I do not take offense to others keeping them. However, we definitely do need to tighten down the regulations and licensing required to keep one. I may get flamed for this next statement, but I also think ownership of the giant constrictors should be regulated and tightened down as well. A Burm or retic or African rock python can kill someone just as easily as a hot, and far too many idiots run out and buy one because they think they are cool and bad-arse running around with a 15+foot snake. It's a risk, doesn't mean that no one should be allowed to take it, just that anyone who does take that risk should be well-trained and informed of said risks and how to handle the worst-case scenarios.

[DeesBalls]

I would love to own a cobra. there just so amazing animals and they are absolutly stunning. but i have absolutly no intentions on owning a cobra, or any hot for that matter. they are just to much for me.... i am having trouble taming down a pastel ball, lol no way i could handle a hot. and i know that, so im not going to jump into it.

* on a side note, i will own a cobra, but a Mustang, lol**

[ilovemypets1988]

theres only 1 hot that im interested in and thas the western diamond back rattler, theres acouple more but none more or as important to me though.
unfortunatley though, i dont know anyone who can train me up for it so i probably would never get 1

[Sapphyr]

The UK and FL regulations sound really nice, I only wish these regulations applied to all other areas. I do kinda agree with the contrictor/retic+other LARGE species of snakes. We all know some people wrap them around their necks and go walking around, and all know a snake that big can accidentally hit the right pressure point to knock you out. Lord forbid this happens while you're alone. At the very least, proper education of such a large snake should be ensured before finalizing a purchase of one, if there isn't licensing or classes/exams. They don't strike me to be as dangerous as a hot, but they can kill, nonetheless, like a hot can. Accidental or not, and it's your responsibility, as its owner, to know how to properly own and care for the animal. Too many people just waltz into -any- type of pet, big or small, without knowing proper care. Then it's the animal that suffers, and also, potentially, the owner that suffers, as well(in the case of any hot/very large snake).

[Damion930]

I can fully agree that with the current system you should need a license for both hots and giants. I also think ther is a line that is streaching when you try to regulate things to protect everyone from the risks in the world. Who is qualified to assess all the risks and tell others they can't take them. Wher is the line drawn between acceptable risk and unacceptable and who gets to draw it. Just stirring the pot for thought

[ilovemypets1988]

i only put my corns around my neck because i know that i can easily get out of difficulty if needed, however im getting a bci on 23rd and theres no way im gunna put that around my neck, its not big but its strong enough to kill me via constriction if it wanted to

[Lankyrob]

An adult corn around your neck can have you unconscious in under a second, if it doesnt let go when you hit the deck then after approx 30seconds brain damage starts, a minute or so later and if you survive you will be lucky to survive with any form of cognition. In my opinion NO snake should EVER be put around the neck or shoulders, just not worth the risk.

[Sapphyr]

Not to stray from subject, but does that mean Snake Massage Therapy isn't advised? Or is that semi-acceptable considering you have others around/supervision?

[Lankyrob]

If the snake knocks you out, and then panics because you drop to the floor so it locks on tight the only way i can see to get it to let go is to kill it, most people would kill the snake before trying any other method because a human life is at risk.

We are literally talking less than a second of pressure in the right place to make you slip into unconsciousness, i had it done to me by a martial arts trainer - i barely felt him touch me and he used just a thumb and forefinger, it really is that easy. The snake does not know wwht it is doing and when it suddenly drops to the floor it is very likely to panic. Either it will let go and run or more likely as it is quite possible that part of your weight will be on the snake it will go into fight mode and just tighten up.

Our adult corn panicked whilst wrapped around my arm when we first got him, my hand was blue and totally nu,b before he let go, there was no way i hell i could of unwrapped him, i just had to wait. Move that constriction from your arm to your neck or chest.............

[Sapphyr]

Aww poor snakey :c I never knew that they could wrap -that- tight. I did kinda wonder what a snake would do if someone did heave/put the snake over their shoulders(thus, neck) and ended up knocking out, falling with the snake. I thought either flee orr... I don't know.

Though, I'm talking Snake Massage Therapy. You're not standing for that. They have you lay, face down, on a table and put snakes on your back and let their slithering do the massage work. It intrigues me because I'm very finicky about people touching me, especially with touching my back. I really doubt I'll ever experience such an event, though.

Here's a link to SnakeByte's Snake Massage Therapy video. I have it skipped to the Snake Massage part so you skip all the snake breeding information bit of the show.

YouTube - Snake Bytes TV - Snake Massage : SnakeBytesTV (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=dSTXTTlgjy4&vq=medium#t=313)

Just to note, I see most snake massages using corn snakes, king snakes, rats snakes, etc.

[Lankyrob]

Hmmm, dont think i will be trying that anytime soon, seems pretty pointless to me but thats just my opinion.

[Sapphyr]

Hmmm, dont think i will be trying that anytime soon, seems pretty pointless to me but thats just my opinion.

Eh, maybe it's just me. I find something to be very... 'therapeutic', in a ways, with a snake's muscle movements as they slither, and me? I often have back pains. Probably 'cause I slouch when I sit. :l Haven't had a massage in like.. 5 years :c I'm very easily bothered by random people/strangers/people I don't know touching me, especially my back.

[Lankyrob]

Wayne, we kinda derailed this thread and i think it is important it should keep going on topic, could you do your magic with me and Sapph posts please??

I cant have anyone touch my back with the problems i have. I had accupuncture at one point to try to ease the pain, first couple of sessions seemed ok but on the lsst occassion she hit a trigger point and sent my back into a massive spasm, was locked up so tight they were considering an epidural to try to release it. Thankfully after about 90 minutes the muscles relaxed enough for me to be able to move enough to get off the bed, never went back to complete the treatments!!

[Sapphyr]

Oh ouch... :c Sorry to hear.

At any rate, back on topic, really love the looks of some venomous <3 The farthest I'd be willing to go is with my hognose and maybe a Vine Snake in the future(yes, I do know survival rate isn't high on them since most come from the wild and are possibly infested with parasites).

One's looks particularly struck my curiousity, and I gotta say, it's the one used in BlindOne's forum display picture. BlindOne, what snake is that in your picture?

[red ink]

I have neighbours with young children living next door on all sides of my house. I let my hot's cruise around in a certain area of the lawn with strict supervision of course. I know that many would frown apon this but i am competent in stopping an animal trying to make a 10m get away. I will also be looking at making some outdoor enclosures to keep some of my animals perminently outside. This i will be discussing with my neighbours as i feel they have a right to know where abouts i plan to put these pits.

None of this is meant to come across as arguementitive so please dont take it that way.

Mate you might want to check with the federales about this as well as they "may" have very strict guidelines about this (if you haven't already done so).... No point of them swooping in and cleaning up your collection just in case somebody see's the right to inform them of what you do in your own property. At least you would be compliant if they do come around....

[red ink]

I can fully agree that with the current system you should need a license for both hots and giants. I also think ther is a line that is streaching when you try to regulate things to protect everyone from the risks in the world. Who is qualified to assess all the risks and tell others they can't take them. Wher is the line drawn between acceptable risk and unacceptable and who gets to draw it. Just stirring the pot for thought

You need to protect other people from the risk of hots as it is not a risk they are interested in taking.... it is a risk that you decided to take and not them... A child gets killed by a giant python and all of a sudden the senate is trying to ban all giant snakes. I am not trying to trivialise this tragic accident but do you guys over there really need more bad press about reptiles...? If you don't take responsibility in your own hands the government will do it for you to protect the populace... that's technically part of their job.

It would not be too difficult to risk manage and assess the handling of hots and to be ceritified.. The same practices applied in keeping them in zoos or catching and relocating them in the wild would be the same safe practices that would be recquired for keeping them in private collections... Don't see too many zoo staff getting tagged by hots.... or them escaping from zoo enclosures.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Oh it will stay civil.
i believe that to advance the hobby the study and keeping of these animals is beneficial.
will i ever own one.
not unless god gives me a new pair of brass balls.

[Aaron_S]

I'll weigh in here.

I don't believe venomous snakes should be kept privately. There's a very small handful of people that have the knowledge to do it safely and even less of them actually do it.

I won't hate Aaron or anyone else for doing it but I don't believe it should be done. There's far too many risks for it to be beneficial in 99.9% of venomous snake keeping situations. I just think there's too much at risk and I've heard far too many first hand accounts of a slip up that possibly not only cost the keepers life but others too.

[percey39]

I'll weigh in here.

I don't believe venomous snakes should be kept privately. There's a very small handful of people that have the knowledge to do it safely and even less of them actually do it.

I won't hate Aaron or anyone else for doing it but I don't believe it should be done. There's far too many risks for it to be beneficial in 99.9% of venomous snake keeping situations. I just think there's too much at risk and I've heard far too many first hand accounts of a slip up that possibly not only cost the keepers life but others too.

I completely understand your point of view mate. We all have close calls once in a while, but many wont talk about these near misses. I too believe alot of people keeping these animals are NOT competent in doing so, but if you were to talk to some of the older herpers that had no real info or training when they started out they will tell you they were not competent at the start either. There definetly needs to be a better regulation system put in place with manditory training and courses to be deemed competent by an assessor. This will eliminate some of the new keepers even bothering to get these certificates for the license and will also make it harder for people to jump in over their heads with keeping too many to quick.

[Reptile_Reptile]

To add in on the certificate thing. i think if they did the initiation thing for hots i think it would be wise for it to go up by levels. like lvl 1 has common venomous snakes that have lots of anti venom, and it progresses to end up with gaboon vipers and such