True or Not?

[Sapphyr]

So, I've made a post regarding this lady we go to for crickets for our lizards. Little family owned business, so we like to help them out.

So, her and my mother were just talking and somehow hognoses came up and the lady said she knew a friend who almost lost his arm on account of being bitten by his hognose. She claims they're venomous, which people have been debating about, but I personally think they aren't. It's kind of similar to how Komodos have all that nasty bacteria in their mouths that work against a bitten prey item.

I'm extremely skeptical and the only way I can consider this truth is to think he had an allergic reaction to the toxins in the saliva. I'm just curious about what you all think about what she said, and if you think it could be possible, tell me how.

[marvelfreak]

To my understanding they are a mild venomous snake. They can make you sick, but not kill you. Unless you have a allergic reaction. Just like a bee sting doesn't hurt me , but could kill someone else.

[NennaMeerkat]

Its kinda like ants and bees. Some people will react more violently to hognose venom than others. Most of what I read is that they will irritate your skin, make you feel sick, and rashes...but nothing like losing an arm. Thing I heard of people nearly losing fingers or parts of them.

[Sapphyr]

Hmm.. Well I'd really not like to lose anything, LOL. Maybe I'm not ready for a hognose. I just may go for a crested gecko next expo instead, it was second on my list, next to an albino honduran milk snake.

[NennaMeerkat]

Well you already know that I said that I think lizards are less of a hassle than snakes BUT at the same time I have a hognose and if there is one thing I have learned is that for you to get bit by a hand-raised hognose you have to REALLY REALLY REALLY piss it off. They just aren't likely to strike. If anything they would just headbutt you.

[Lankyrob]

With them being rear fa ged to get envenomated in the first place is unlikely, then as said above it is down to how you react to the venom. If you react well then its meant to be like a bee sting, if you react badly then i would imagine it would all depend on bow bad the reaction is and how quickly medical attention is sought.

[ineedsoap16]

The other very odd fact about getting bitten by a Western Hognose is that when they strike, they do so with a closed mouth. If you watch closely, in a defensive strike, what you are feeling hit your hand is actually the upturned snout.

Ryan

[presspirate]

It is my understanding that they would have to actually chew on you a bit to actually get the venom in.

[mld]

To my understanding they are a mild venomous snake. They can make you sick, but not kill you. Unless you have a allergic reaction. Just like a bee sting doesn't hurt me , but could kill someone else.

I agree, as long as your not allergic to the venom!

[infernalis]

Hoggies are in fact rear fanged with mild venom.

[Sapphyr]

Oh I understand all their pre-bite tactics, headbutting, fanning their head, playing dead, and also about their rear fangs... I'm just a little intimidated by that small chance. I may consider them if the guy I'm looking to buy from has already started to get it used to taming, because I honestly think he's done so with my BRB. First day, held my BRB and he was as tame as could be. He's never even striked at me or acted aggressive about anything. Been holding him almost every day since I got him(besides before and after eating, of course) and he's never complained or fussed. Even lets me hold him while having 'blue eyes', still nothing.

See, I personally love hognoses 'cause I adore that upturned snout and their comical behavior before being tamed, but my boyfriend has a liiittle phobia of snakes, he believes, and I think a hognose would be really good for him since it stays relatively small and is so reluctant to bite. I think his biggest fear is being bitten and how some are so muscular and strong, but I've held a carpet python, they aren't out to get you or any of that nonsense. I actually loooved holding something so muscular, granted the one I held was a little hyper and wanted to greet everyone around me, but I was still able to gently lead it back to me. I really just think my man needs to start out with a little snake that won't bite(usually).

[mld]

My husband is not a snake fan, or any reptile fan. But I'm working on him:blink:, and hopefully will have one at some point.
They are more scared of him, and will avoid confrontation if possible.

[Sapphyr]

My husband is not a snake fan, or any reptile fan. But I'm working on him:blink:, and hopefully will have one at some point.
They are more scared of him, and will avoid confrontation if possible.

Ahhh :0 Well good luck on getting him to like them a bit more! :D

[infernalis]

I may consider them if the guy I'm looking to buy from has already started to get it used to taming, because I honestly think he's done so with my BRB. First day, held my BRB and he was as tame as could be. He's never even striked at me or acted aggressive about anything. Been holding him almost every day since I got him(besides before and after eating, of course) and he's never complained or fussed. Even lets me hold him while having 'blue eyes', still nothing.

Please don't take me wrong here... But I need to say this.

There is no such thing as a tame reptile.

We can get them to tolerate us, we can get them to tolerate handling, but all in all instinct will override any form of "taming"

There are countless discussions on here about snakes and lizards that people got bit by while handling or feeding them.

Just about a week or two ago, my little leopard gecko bit me while I was feeding him.

I myself get bitten by a snake or two nearly every week. Fortunately I work with smaller snakes, so most of the bites are comical.

[Sapphyr]

Please don't take me wrong here... But I need to say this.

There is no such thing as a tame reptile.

We can get them to tolerate us, we can get them to tolerate handling, but all in all instinct will override any form of "taming"

There are countless discussions on here about snakes and lizards that people got bit by while handling or feeding them.

Just about a week or two ago, my little leopard gecko bit me while I was feeding him.

I myself get bitten by a snake or two nearly every week. Fortunately I work with smaller snakes, so most of the bites are comical.

Oh well, yes, I do know instinct still remains, I meant as tame as tame can go. I didn't mean,"Oh he's so tame! He'd never ever bite me!" I know that, despite how well he is with being handled and me coming into his cage, he could mistake me as food one day and probably more than just once. I'm honestly just waiting for him to mistake me as food, I'm sure he will eventually, as do many snakes with other owners. I mean, watch Snakebytes, they get bit all the time. It honestly just depends on you(as far as smelling like food, feeling anxious when trying to pick it up, etc. goes) and how your snake is(like being naturally nippy, finicky, etc.).

Just yesterday my gecko got a little nippy and drew blood yesterday, I don't honestly mind. I just sat him back in his cage to chill for a little while. Back to his usual self today, lax and calm.

I'm fully aware that, even if they are handled frequently and tolerate handling really well, they will bite should they want to.

This is one reason why I've considered a hognose to get my man used to snakes(and because I love them), I don't think they -want- to bite since they headbutt and try other tactics besides biting. At the same time, I, myself, am worried about them should they mistake you for food and bite you considering their 'venom' deal. Is it still rare, even then, to get envenomated, or would it probably happen in such a case?

Edit: Oh, also, the instinct thing? Instinct still remains in a lot of our pets. Dogs will still hunt tiny fluffy things should you be irresponsible and put it on the floor, or if it escapes. Cats will still hunt mice(unless they're just too lazy, like mine). Instinct remains in most pets we keep today, and I'm fully aware. Not oblivious like some of those people you find on Fatal Attractions, LOL. Only difference is the things on that show can kill you easily. Not saying a dog can't kill a person and all the like, but it's very unlikely.

[infernalis]

Good.. Glad you understand.

For that reason, I would lean more to a corn snake than a hoggie.

Hognose snakes do strange things when scared, like flip over and musk.

Corns will not do that, I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a corn snake with attitude, but for the most part, they are very mellow.

[shaunyboy]

To my understanding they are a mild venomous snake. They can make you sick, but not kill you. Unless you have a allergic reaction. Just like a bee sting doesn't hurt me , but could kill someone else.

^^^^^
this

they are also rear fanged so they need to get your skin way into the back of their mouths and chew on you to release their venom

cheers shaun

[Sapphyr]

Good.. Glad you understand.

For that reason, I would lean more to a corn snake than a hoggie.

Hognose snakes do strange things when scared, like flip over and musk.

Corns will not do that, I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a corn snake with attitude, but for the most part, they are very mellow.

Eh... I've had a corn before, it was a bad experience, granted it was, obviously, a very -rare- experience... but I'm not too big on corns to begin with(my mother was the one that made the decision without my knowing). If I were to go anything other than hognose, it'd be a milk snake or a KSB. I'm personally not overly fond of KSB's, but I don't think they get too big(I've yet to research them, as I'm not sure yet), and I don't know... maybe if I get to see one in person and maybe handle it, it may just grow on me. The more I stare at KSB's, though, they also grow on me through that.. Something just seems really nice about their coloring.

I also knew about the flipping over and musk thing(playing dead), and I'm perfectly fine with musk. I'd expect the same behavior from a startled/intimidated milk snake, and I'm a tad fond of them as well. I've heard musking behavior, and in this case, any other forms of getting you to leave them alone(headbutting, head flattening, etc.) will, in most cases, die down once the snake gets accustomed to you handling it and initially going to pick it up.

Shaun, if that's the case then I may just stick with them.. Since they'd have to 'chew' on you a little to actually get their fangs to your flesh, I'm guessing even a feeding response wouldn't be an actual flesh to fang contact and puncture?

[totheend]

Getting a hognose to play dead is almost near impossible!! I think that wild ones will do it and a newly hatched cb may do it.

And yeah you would have to let a hog chew on you for a long period of time and they would have to get you between the fingers or something like that. I have fed my hogs live food and I will tell you that they chew when they eat and that mouse is still alive all the way down.......so I would say their "venom" is extremely mild. I believe probably more geared towards toads/frogs.

Here is link with a bite......please remember he let him chew on him for 3-5 min........
hognose snake bite (http://www.herpnet.net/bite/)

[Sapphyr]

Getting a hognose to play dead is almost near impossible!! I think that wild ones will do it and a newly hatched cb may do it.

And yeah you would have to let a hog chew on you for a long period of time and they would have to get you between the fingers or something like that. I have fed my hogs live food and I will tell you that they chew when they eat and that mouse is still alive all the way down.......so I would say their "venom" is extremely mild. I believe probably more geared towards toads/frogs.

Here is link with a bite......please remember he let him chew on him for 3-5 min........
hognose snake bite (http://www.herpnet.net/bite/)

Oh wow, that's some intense swelling. :c

So, if you were to get it to detach from you in say.. the first 10 - 20 seconds of it actually taking your flesh in its mouth, you probably won't get envenomated?

[infernalis]

All I can say is if they were not "safe" as pets, they would not be nearly as common in the pet trade as they are. ;)

[Sapphyr]

All I can say is if they were not "safe" as pets, they would not be nearly as common in the pet trade as they are. ;)

Truuuuuue.~ Well, then I guess I'll be looking for a hoggy next month at our expo.~ The guy I bought my BRB from was selling Westerns for $55, though... I particularly like Albino hognoses and generally red colored ones, but I think that's a bit above my budget. I should have $220 by the time the expo comes around, but part of the will be used for the enclosure, so I'd say the most I could spend is $150, maybe a little more.

[Lankyrob]

Also in the uk keeping hots is SOOOO difficult, needing licenses and random checks etc etc etc to even be able to purchase them. You can pick up hoggies in most reptile shops as easy as corns.

[Sapphyr]

Also in the uk keeping hots is SOOOO difficult, needing licenses and random checks etc etc etc to even be able to purchase them. You can pick up hoggies in most reptile shops as easy as corns.

Sorry about not getting back to this since yesterday, I've been really busy today.

At any rate.. Ahhh, so they're not regarded as a hot(I personally don't know what 'hot' stands for, I just know it has something to do with venomous snakes)? That's good to hear, makes me a bit relieved.

I've called the breeder I got my BRB from, 'cause I know he has hognoses, I'm just waiting for him to get back to me. In other news, I found $100 worth in old graduation money! So I'll spend $250 tops. I may just get an albino, if available, after all.~

[totheend]

No they are not considered hot.

I hope you enjoy your new pet and gl.

[Aaron_S]

Just a tidbit of fact from the very first post, komodo's ARE considered venomous lizards if I remember correctly. They changed the status a little while ago. So that would be the third venomous lizard in the world behind the gila monster and beaded lizard.

To stay on topic. Hognose's are venomous but very good snakes to keep.

[Sapphyr]

Just a tidbit of fact from the very first post, komodo's ARE considered venomous lizards if I remember correctly. They changed the status a little while ago. So that would be the third venomous lizard in the world behind the gila monster and beaded lizard.

To stay on topic. Hognose's are venomous but very good snakes to keep.

Ahhh, I remember from when I was a little kid, they weren't marked as venomous. Learn something new all the time.~

I've already called the breeder I got my BRB from, he'll be at the next expo and hopefully have some hognoses.~ Otherwise I may have to have one shipped in from an online breeder, 'cause no one else at the last expo had 'em. ;c

What's ya'lls opinion about shipping reptiles from online breeders? Safe? Not safe?

[Steve'O]

From my understanding the hognose has a mild venom and is rear fanged. You would have to be chewed on a bit to get envenomed by it. It is not like a viper that gets you with a quick bite. I did see a video or photo account some years ago from a guy who intentionally got his hog to bite and chew on his hand for a minute or so. His arm did swell impressively for about a week, it looked like cellulitis, but it healed up without incidence. I would presume though that if you were more sensitive to the venom, not unlike someone who is allergic to bees, the reaction would be worse. It is also possible with any significant swelling of an extremity that the circulation can be compromised resulting in tissue death. There is also the possibility of infection and gangrene complications...

[Hillsberry]

Wow. The worst bite I have heard from a hog was a little rash around the area of the bite. But I heard they really need to chew on you to get some venom in.

[Aaron_S]

Buy from a reputable person and you won't have a problem with shipping.

I live in Canada and I bought two snakes from the states in October of 2009. I didn't have a problem with them being shipped up here. I even bought two more from out West in Canada in late November without issue. Luckily our weather was fine then.

[marvelfreak]

What's ya'lls opinion about shipping reptiles from online breeders? Safe? Not safe?
Like Aaron said buy from a reputable breeder or company. I have got all, but one of my snakes online and have never had a problem. I always do a little researcher on who i am buying from.

[mld]

Do you have a reptilexpress in the US? I've heard a lot of good thing about their shipping of live reptiles.

[Aaron_S]

They did. Then they screwed it up.

[Sapphyr]

They did. Then they screwed it up.

Had no clue about it, but that may be because I'm new to the snake scene, and never purchased online reptiles, but ow.. :c What happened to it?

I'll also probably purchase from BHB Reptiles if this breeder can't get any hognoses to the next expo... They have an albino hoggie that I really love but.. I'll have $320 by the time the expo comes around, and I need to spend $30 - $45 max on cage supplies(hides, decoration, soak/water dish, etc.). So, yanno, I'd find it hard to spend $300+Shipping with having only so much. Plus I'm sure my mother would think I'm an absolute idiot for spending that much on a snake... -_-; ... but yanno, she spent $500 for two of her purebred pugs(each), and $500 for my purebred Toy American Eskimo. :l ... So I think $300 is way cheaper for something concerning genetics, especially considering snakes.. 'Cause I think breeding snakes for this or that is a lot harder than throwing two purebred dogs together. :l

[Aaron_S]

People lied about what they were shipping and through the company shipyourreptiles or something along those lines ended up in a lot of hot water.

[Sapphyr]

People lied about what they were shipping and through the company shipyourreptiles or something along those lines ended up in a lot of hot water.

Ohhh :c That sucks :l

[marvelfreak]

A lot of breeder ship with Fed X or UPS overnight live animals.

[Sapphyr]

A lot of breeder ship with Fed X or UPS overnight live animals.

Ahhh. Well I trust them pretty well.

[2006gt]

Get the Honduran milk!!!

[Aaron_S]

A lot of breeder ship with Fed X or UPS overnight live animals.

I'm not 100% sure but they have to have a specific account and be allowed to by the company. It's normally against the rules of their TOS.

[Ch^4]

^^ In the states, you have to be FedEx certified to ship a snake (through FedEx--don't know about UPS). You can ship other reptiles, just not snakes unless you're certified. Certification is easy and free, but takes up to 4 weeks. If you ship a snake, and you're not certified, you're in direct violation of the Lacey Act (I think it's a felony).

You can go through companies like SYR, but do it right or the whole industry suffers.

[Sapphyr]

^^ In the states, you have to be FedEx certified to ship a snake (through FedEx--don't know about UPS). You can ship other reptiles, just not snakes unless you're certified. Certification is easy and free, but takes up to 4 weeks. If you ship a snake, and you're not certified, you're in direct violation of the Lacey Act (I think it's a felony).

You can go through companies like SYR, but do it right or the whole industry suffers.

Ahhh.. So does that include receiving snakes being shipped to you? And what's the process I'd have to go through if that includes the receiver? The expo is in about a month, so by the time it goes through, if I did it in the next few days, I could receive a snake through shipment if the guy doesn't have any for me. Do I just need to go to the FedEx office and inquire or what?

[marvelfreak]

Ahhh.. So does that include receiving snakes being shipped to you? And what's the process I'd have to go through if that includes the receiver? The expo is in about a month, so by the time it goes through, if I did it in the next few days, I could receive a snake through shipment if the guy doesn't have any for me. Do I just need to go to the FedEx office and inquire or what?
No you don't have to do anything. Just the person shipping. This way they know it's packaged right and can't escape. It's for the snake safety and anyone handling. A properly packaged snake will be in a seal snake bag or deli cup if small enough. With crumple up paper or packing peanuts around it. Then Styrofoam on all sides. If needed heat or cold packs tape to the top of the inside of the box. All this inside a card board box. Tape up really, really good. The box will say live animal on it and it should also be on the label.
Plus you can also ask if they are certified. If not you might want to think twice about ordering from them.

[Sapphyr]

No you don't have to do anything. Just the person shipping. This way they know it's packaged right and can't escape. It's for the snake safety and anyone handling. A properly packaged snake will be in a seal snake bag or deli cup if small enough. With crumple up paper or packing peanuts around it. Then Styrofoam on all sides. If needed heat or cold packs tape to the top of the inside of the box. All this inside a card board box. Tape up really, really good. The box will say live animal on it and it should also be on the label.
Plus you can also ask if they are certified. If not you might want to think twice about ordering from them.

Mmk then. I'm pretty sure BHB Reptiles will be certified, but I'll be sure to check with anyone else, should I stray from buying from them if this guy doesn't come back from Alabama with any hoggies.

[marvelfreak]

You can check out this site. Kingsnake.com Classifieds > Hognose Snake Classifieds (http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=97)

Or this one. If you stroll down the page you'll see hognoses. I gotten 4 of my snake From Ben they have some really great reptiles.
Ben Siegel Reptiles Inc. (http://www.albinonile.com/)

[Sapphyr]

You can check out this site. Kingsnake.com Classifieds > Hognose Snake Classifieds (http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=97)

Or this one. If you stroll down the page you'll see hognoses. I gotten 4 of my snake From Ben they have some really great reptiles.
Ben Siegel Reptiles Inc. (http://www.albinonile.com/)

Fwoo man... Need to tell Ben that's a real eyesore right there LOL All I could find were Westerns, and I'm looking, preferably, for reds/albinos.

Those Classifieds were really nice though.~ Never knew hoggies could look like milk snakes until today.. Awesome <3

Anywho, if you trust 'em, I know I can trust 'em 'cause, in my opinion, you're a knowledgeable snake person c: .. especially in carpets~

[marvelfreak]

Fwoo man... Need to tell Ben that's a real eyesore right there LOL All I could find were Westerns, and I'm looking, preferably, for reds/albinos.

Those Classifieds were really nice though.~ Never knew hoggies could look like milk snakes until today.. Awesome <3

Anywho, if you trust 'em, I know I can trust 'em 'cause, in my opinion, you're a knowledgeable snake person c: .. especially in carpets~
Why thank you! Yeah Ben list of everything is a bit hard on the eyes.

[Sapphyr]

Why thank you! Yeah Ben list of everything is a bit hard on the eyes.

No prob! c: And you can say that again xD rofl