Got a 7ft Burm off Craig’s list 6 mo. ago

[mikemmag]

Hey everyone,

I used to snake hunt as a kid (20 yrs ago) and kept some kings, corns, racers, and garter snakes. I decided to get a low maintenance pet and a snake came to mind. Thought a python might be too much snake, but she is 9ft now and a big part of my life. I read up on environment requirement since she is not indigenous. I repurposed a wooden table into a nice cage w/ flex watt heat on half.

I now leave the front of her cage open so she can roam around when she wants. Interestingly enough, she always leaves the cage to defecate. It's much easier to clean the wooden floor than change her bedding. One time she flipped her tail out and went on the floor without leaving the cage.

I work at home so I usually get to enjoy watching her explore. I keep the bedrooms closed, so if she roams at night, she is easy to find. At 9ft, she can climb everywhere. Wish I could do that some times. She stays in her cage most of the time (it's warm). She seems to have trouble finding her cage, so when she settles somewhere (usually under the sofa), I'll put her back.

She smells the food I am thawing for her and comes out looking for it. I sometimes hide it to watch her find it.

I live in New Orleans and when I go downtown, people end up throwing me money to take pictures with her. A pet that earns her keep, nice. Plus, I meet so many people.

She sometimes rides shotgun with her head out the window. I love seeing the facial expressions in the adjacent cars.

Long intro, hope it's interesting,
Mike

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[derekcm87]

Interesting? Im sorry but I am totally against this... Not to be the party pooper here but this is the kind of thing that gives us responsible keepers a bad name. That snake should NEVER EVER be able to roam anywhere unsupervised at any time for any reason. I own large snakes and take it very seriously. If this snake was to ever get out and make its way to the neighbor it could cause some serious damage. This is the kind of thing that you see on the news and then people who are responsible get frowned upon for keeping large snakes when the situation 99% of the time was completely preventable and happened due to an irresponsible keeping.... I really hope you start keeping this snake locked up otherwise it is only an accident waiting to happen. They are not cute cuddly creatures that you give free roam of your house as much as you want them to be. Im sorry but this is the number one rule of keeping potentially dangerous animals as pets. Never leave them unsupervised. Please lock it up so we dont see you or your snake on the news. I dont know how often I have people ask me, do you let your snakes roam in your house and I think to myself, What a stupid question... but apparently its not such a stupid question. I only trying to help. Im not trying to be the bad guy.

[marvelfreak]

Hello and welcome! I total agree with Derekcm87. We just don't want to see something happen that would cause law to be pass where you or any of us would no longer be able to keep such amazing animal. We love to see pictures of your burm.

[derekcm87]

yes pictures are a must :)

[Freebody]

I love burms, and as already said, you must keep it locked up when your not directly watching it, just think, it manages to get into a vent and goes to a neighbooring house looking for warmth and finds a nice young baby in a crib to eat... worth leaving it unattended? nope, and to be honest, it would be just as happy being locked up, and coming out when you take it out, i also own large snakes, and like already said, this is what the new rules have done, it is already illegal here to own anything over 9 feet here for this reason, and its going to get worse the more cases as such that hit the papers. but im sure you will make changes now that you know, Welcome to the forum, i also would love to see pics of your beloved friend :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

yea dude if you love your snake you will keep it locked up. it really doesnt mind as long as its safe that snake is happy

[Damion930]

Don't forget guyz we don't know the details of his home and whether or not he has taken the steps to insure his house apt or whatever is secure and he did say he works at home so it sounds as if its atleast supervised most of the time I of course do agree that if it is not snake proofed and secure its a very bad idea wouldn't work for my house at all to many things a large snake could tip and possibly injure its self on or destroy and the other pets would not approve nor would the gf lol im just saying unsupervised large snake running around in a unsecured area bad but if the proper precautions have ben taken to midigate the risks its not all that bad...

[Damion930]

Oh and welcome lol would love to see pix

[Freebody]

oh for sure, i was thinking the same thing, i just said it because i was chatting with a old friend i ran into who heard i was into snakes and planned becoming a breeder so we got talking, he was saying that his buddy has a sweet snake, so i was asking questions and hes like oh its a boa he lets it roam the house freely , yada yada, im like what? his friend had no idea what he was doing, but after telling my buddy i got a email and he said his friend no longer does this anymore and his snake is doing better as far as eating and stuff. i felt good and like always i sent him here, the greatest forum in the World!! pics yet new friend? wink wink, nudge nudge lol

[mikemmag]

Wow, three references of me being irresponsible. I never judge people. I believe that’s above my pay grade. To address your concerns, I supervised her roaming for three months. In my experience snakes will find an escape in days. She only has access to the living room, kitchen and bathroom. I examined these areas for possible escapes. I believe a snake’s efforts to escape are inversely proportional to the area they are allowed to roam. I work at home and I stay aware of her location except when I sleep. I sleep behind closed bedroom doors, so I don't get a surprise visit. I watched her try to push them open. She only roughed up the bridge of her nose. I don't see much difference between my snake proof areas and a dedicated bedroom commonly used for large snakes, other than possible salmonella in the kitchen which is a risk I accept. I believe responsibility includes overcoming ignorance and is part of integrity, which is one thing I try to control in my life.

I respect your opinion and think it is good advice in general. And I do appreciate the feedback. It’s always a good sanity check. My living arrangement is well thought out, not on a whim. I was an engineer on the Space Shuttle program for twenty years. NASA doesn’t put up with irresponsible. I know what she can do hungry and roaming the neighborhood. My primary concern is making sure she cannot escape. Second is making sure I am isolated while I am sleeping. I will never claim to know everything. A good mentor of mine always asked me questions before he gave me answers. If I am overlooking a concern, let me know.

I did not want to get into a big debate about free roaming. I think of this more as limited roaming. I wanted to share my experiences of giving her separate living and roaming areas and how she seems to distinguish the difference. I know she has a brain the size of a lima bean and functions on instinct and experience. And since she will always be a wild animal, she will never be totally predictable. I always keep alcohol (isopropyl or ethanol) handy incase she latches on to me or someone else.

I decided to name her Kiki. The previous owner did not give her a name as she cannot hear airborne sound. Everyone wanted to know her name so I gave her one. She is my only snake and I spend most of my waking hours interacting with her. I may not always be able to do this. When it changes, I will change her freedoms to more conventional snake keeping.

[NennaMeerkat]

Above your pay grade or not I would not so readily blow off people's warnings around here. They have plenty of well advised and good advice. No one here is disrespectful or rude! We all just look out for our reptiles and try to help others do the same. Many of people around here have many many snakes, breed snakes, and have done so for years. If they say what you are doing is dangerous I would heed their warnings!

Beautiful snake, but I would still think it is dangerous for the snake to roam in the places you are letting it, especially the kitchen and bathroom! Snakes are not graceful or careful creatures and your snake could easily accidentally turn a knob on your range turning on an eye and burn itself. I also see a block of knives in one image and a tupperware of tools...two things that can be dangerous to any animal. In the bathroom I see liquid soaps thus I can assume shampoos and other liquid toiletries area around. Some of the things that are safe for us are not safe for other animals. And are your cabinets locked so she can't get into them? What happens if she knocks over cleaner somewhere and gets a chemical burn or accidentally breathes nasty fumes?

[TeaNinja]

Above your pay grade or not I would not so readily blow off people's warnings around here. They have plenty of well advised and good advice. No one here is disrespectful or rude! We all just look out for our reptiles and try to help others do the same. Many of people around here have many many snakes, breed snakes, and have done so for years. If they say what you are doing is dangerous I would heed their warnings!

Beautiful snake, but I would still think it is dangerous for the snake to roam in the places you are letting it, especially the kitchen and bathroom! Snakes are not graceful or careful creatures and your snake could easily accidentally turn a knob on your range turning on an eye and burn itself. I also see a block of knives in one image and a tupperware of tools...two things that can be dangerous to any animal. In the bathroom I see liquid soaps thus I can assume shampoos and other liquid toiletries area around. Some of the things that are safe for us are not safe for other animals. And are your cabinets locked so she can't get into them? What happens if she knocks over cleaner somewhere and gets a chemical burn or accidentally breathes nasty fumes?

lets not get ahead of ourselves lol. some people are VERY rude and disrespectful around here (regardless of if they meant well)

i have had a few instances on here getting snapped at for a not especially good reason. i agree people need constructive critisism to evolve, but it can be done in a nice way to actually show you care about the pets well being instead of seeming like you're trying to take the OP down a peg or two, which i've seen happen.

NOT implying you nenna, or the other people who posted critisism, i'm just saying not everyone is nice with theirs.

[NennaMeerkat]

Well I know I haven't personally been attacked or had people been rude to me. Misunderstandings sure...I mean it is only text hard to read emotion with just text. But I get what you are saying Tea.

[Lankyrob]

I agree with the OP that if the free roaming area is well thought out and totally safe and secure then why not let it roam. Then i see the pictures and have exactly the same concerns as Nenna.

That are is NOT safe in anyway with all those items around that could easily hurt the snake how can you say it is safe?

You have a very beautiful snake there mate, please take on board the concerns that have been expressed.

[percey39]

To me she looks a bit bigger than 9' but its hard to judge from pics. I would clear benches of anything sharp, light/easily moved, anything hot or having the possibility to get hot. I myself are guilty of giving my scrubs and olives a bit of free roam time, but this is always monitored. My male olive will prefer to make his way from his tank to my lap on the couch to watch tv over roaming though.
If you have made everything else safe and clean up the areas mentioned i believe there to be no real problem if there is no way of escape or into you bedroom. Also how do you hold the humidity up for her?

[derekcm87]

I could possibly see letting a snake roam if the house was made COMPLETELY snake proof. I work for the leading engineering firm in the world designing fossil fuel and nuclear power plants and they dont allow irresposibility either and I am sure you are a very intelligent person. You have to be to have worked for who you have. But I have to say that this is not. As everyone has said nothing in the pictures say snake proof to me. I have went as far as putting screens in my vents in the snake room so that incase someone did escape from their cages which should be near impossible to do so that they would be stuck inside that room and have no outlet. I have to say it is smart that you block yourself off when sleeping. Its a very beautiful snake and looks to be healthy. I just want to ask a question. Why not just give the snake a cage and only allow it to come out when supervised? What is your reasoning for wanting to give it roam?

[Will0W783]

Hello and welcome to the forum...your Burm is very beautiful, but I have to say your letting her roam concerns me. Even if your home is very snake-proof and you work at home, she can't possibly get the warmth and temperature gradient she needs if she is out and about in areas that are comfortable to you. And as for letting her roam at night when you are asleep- please reconsider this. It won't upset her to be locked in her cage at night when you can't be around. All it takes is one night for you to forget to close your door all the way, or for the latch to break, and you could have a very "snuggly" bed mate. You could easily be constricted even if she was only looking for warmth.
I recently adopted a Burm off Craigslist and he is kept in a Vision cage. When he is out of his quarantine he will go into a large melamine cage. I bring him out a few nights a week for a soak in the tub and some exercise, but I am always watching him. I also own cats and dogs, so that is a concern for me that wouldn't be for you. I assume the Burm is your only pet.
However, you cannot possibly be giving the snake the temperatures and light cycle it NEEDS to be healthy when it's roaming around rooms that are in the 70's F. Please, please, PLEASE don't just jump to the conclusion that we are rude and attackish here...we are only trying to help. Furthermore, why do you let your snake hang out a car window??? That is, sorry to say, but absolutley irresponsible and insane in my opinion. Other people are staring because they are terrified. The vast majority of the public does not understand or enjoy snakes, and parading a giant snake around in public is just not fair to those people. All you need (heck, all the rest of us keepers need) is for someone to read your license plate and complain- then the cops will come and see you let your snake loose in your house. That would be bad publicity for the snake keeping world, and we've had so much of that lately. I guess if your house is really snake-proof it's ok to let her out during the day, but I would lock her up at night when you are asleep.
Wanting to give a snake as much space as possible is wonderful, but I strongly believe that you are doing your snake a disservice, and in doing so, doing the entire community of reptile keepers a disservice as well.

Again, I do not mean to offend you- I really am not trying to be difficult. I just don't want to see you end up in a dangerous situation that could have been avoided, or see your snake get a respiratory infection or get injured. I hope you at least consider some of the advice given to you by all of us.

[belovedboas]

Hello and welcome to the forum...your Burm is very beautiful, but I have to say your letting her roam concerns me. Even if your home is very snake-proof and you work at home, she can't possibly get the warmth and temperature gradient she needs if she is out and about in areas that are comfortable to you. And as for letting her roam at night when you are asleep- please reconsider this. It won't upset her to be locked in her cage at night when you can't be around. All it takes is one night for you to forget to close your door all the way, or for the latch to break, and you could have a very "snuggly" bed mate. You could easily be constricted even if she was only looking for warmth.
I recently adopted a Burm off Craigslist and he is kept in a Vision cage. When he is out of his quarantine he will go into a large melamine cage. I bring him out a few nights a week for a soak in the tub and some exercise, but I am always watching him. I also own cats and dogs, so that is a concern for me that wouldn't be for you. I assume the Burm is your only pet.
However, you cannot possibly be giving the snake the temperatures and light cycle it NEEDS to be healthy when it's roaming around rooms that are in the 70's F. Please, please, PLEASE don't just jump to the conclusion that we are rude and attackish here...we are only trying to help. Furthermore, why do you let your snake hang out a car window??? That is, sorry to say, but absolutley irresponsible and insane in my opinion. Other people are staring because they are terrified. The vast majority of the public does not understand or enjoy snakes, and parading a giant snake around in public is just not fair to those people. All you need (heck, all the rest of us keepers need) is for someone to read your license plate and complain- then the cops will come and see you let your snake loose in your house. That would be bad publicity for the snake keeping world, and we've had so much of that lately. I guess if your house is really snake-proof it's ok to let her out during the day, but I would lock her up at night when you are asleep.
Wanting to give a snake as much space as possible is wonderful, but I strongly believe that you are doing your snake a disservice, and in doing so, doing the entire community of reptile keepers a disservice as well.

Again, I do not mean to offend you- I really am not trying to be difficult. I just don't want to see you end up in a dangerous situation that could have been avoided, or see your snake get a respiratory infection or get injured. I hope you at least consider some of the advice given to you by all of us.

Hello and welcome aboard!!! I am with kim on this one....take the advice...there are some really knowledgable people on this forum....alot of experience for you to learn from...beautiful burm:):)

[derekcm87]

Very well put willow! Yes temperature is something that I overlooked in this situation. good point.

[Will0W783]

The temperature is always the first thing I worry about, because I had a period where a lot of snakes got RIs and it was because my temperature gradients weren't high enough for the pythons. This was a few years ago, but it was only about 5 degrees too low and it was still enough to set off immune issues for them. I can only imagine what long-term exposure to the low 70s will do. I hope it doesn't cause problems for the OP's snake...she looks like a beautiful Burmese. I just worry about the animal's health first and foremost....then the safety issues come to play.

[Reptile_Reptile]

im going to just say this once man. your house is not snake proof. that snake is pure muscle if it wanted to it could flex and buse through anything in your house, the meer fact that it hanst yet doesnt mean she wont. be carefull and i hope a rat never comes thru your house because it will go aggro, retics have nasty feeding responses and you could easily be killed by this creature

[Will0W783]

Reptile_reptile, that's not a retic- its' a Burmese python. They don't have anywhere near the feeding response of a retic, but are still dangerous. If it was hungry, or if the OP smelled like something the snake associated with food and it got ahold of him, it would easily kill him still. But it's not a retic.

[Reptile_Reptile]

whoops im sorry in the pictures for some reason it looked like a retic i guess i need to pay attention but the facts are still there that snake could kill the crap out of him, especially if he doesnt know where it is and the snake decides to hunt him and all it needs is one coil and he will die. that is a dangerously large snake for actions like that. i mean would you take a burm that is wild caught and let it chill in your "snake proof house" let me answer that for you no, and what is the difference between a wild caught and a captive bred. not much they can both eat an kill you. one is just healthier. i think its a bad idea mate, but as long as your safe man, just be safe i have no feelings for you but you are putting that snake at risk by your treating that animal like a free roamer like a dog or cat, your giving it the opportunity to have problems and if anything happens to you, your putting rescue services at risk AND if anything happens to you because of the snake you have effectively killed your snake. dont punish your snake man thats all this is doing, and if you dont lock em up at least be safe and dont die for your communities sake.

[mikemmag]

Those are some good points. I am not discarding the advice here. I am taking it under advisement, which is the whole purpose of advice. Criticize what I write not the interpretation. I did not say it was safe. I said she could not escape or get to me while I sleep. I don't think body wash and shampoo are going to hurt her. Any chemicals are in plastic with screw tops. The stovetop is a worthy concern.

She has already knocked down most of those items. She has even fallen a few times. Scared me, but when I checked on her, she is flipping over and continuing on like nothing happened. Being free has its risk. She is a Burmese Python not an infant. They are independent once they hatch. She would be much more likely to get injured killing prey in the wild. They are not that fragile, at least not physically. They wouldn't be wrecking the eco system in the Everglades if they were.

I don’t like my freedom and liberties taken away to keep me safe. What is totally safe? A padded cell? A plastic bubble? Would you keep your kids locked in the bedroom to keep them totally safe? I see people keeping their “collection” in slide out plastic tubs. That reminds me of the puppy mills I see on Animal Planet. At least my snake gets to stretch out, climb, explore, and get some exercise. She spends 70-80% of the time in her cage, because it is more of a home than a cage. I am speculating that is why she goes elsewhere to defecate. I wonder how many snake owners could open the cages and have their snakes stay in their cages because it is such a happy safe place. I don’t think anyone is doing their snake a favor by keeping it in a cage. That’s a hefty price for free meals. I’m looking for the middle ground, somewhere between setting her free in her native environment and locking her up in a plastic tub. I hate to see her nosing into the Plexiglas wondering why she can’t go anywhere.

Last I checked my snake wasn’t suicidal. I don’t think she is going to play with kitchen knives or stab herself with a screw driver. She would have to knock over the knife block, a knife would have to land sharp edge up, and she would have to fall on it. I should go play the lottery. And I am pretty sure she is not into sniffing glue. It’s not like I have booby traps set for her.

I think the real concerns are that she doesn’t escape and that she doesn’t kill me in my sleep. That is what the media loves to sensationalize. The rest is just lifestyle choices, goals, and opinions. I have accomplished things because I didn’t know “they couldn’t be done”. Keep an open mind. There are many way to do things the “right way”. They vary with the individual’s goals/objectives and resources/experience.

I put a towel in her cage/home over the flex watt heater. This effectively creates two heat zones, under the towel and on top the towel. She uses them both, sometimes half under half over, sometimes just her head out to see what’s going on.

[Reptile_Reptile]

your snake is not a child or a person and should not be treated as such, it is a potentially dangerous animal, and should be treated that way. your snake would be just as happy being locked inside its cage. its priorities are to eat and be safe thats it, no room in its lima bean sized brain for exploration

[Will0W783]

Snakes do like to explore and they enjoy stimulation and new environments. That's why I try to take mine out for handling and exercise at least a few times a month, if not at least once a week. Most of my snakes are perfectly happy in their cages. I have a few that will stay sitting in the cage if I drop the door down and go about filling dishes and such in the room. I too feel badly for animals in tiny boxes, but I also won't take the risks of letting one roam about unattended. I do see your points, mikemmag, and I hope for your snake's sake that no harm ever comes to either of you. I don't agree with how you're keeping her but then again I am not there in your house to see how you interact with her. I still don't agree with letting her roam at night while you're asleep and unable to help her if she hurt herself somewhere, but to each their own.

[Ringo2011]

Ok..i guess i have to put my 2 cents in because i gotta say..AWSOME PYTHON!
If i wasn't scared it might eat one of my children..i would totally have 1 myself..
I do share the other members concerns although it is YOUR decision how you keep YOUR pet. If you were talking about re-doing a cage..people would have a problem with the type of wood you use or the sealant..I say "be totally careful and enjoy the animal"

[Will0W783]

Nicely put, Ringo.

[NennaMeerkat]

Do you think it roams around and such because it is looking for better conditions since there is hardly any way you can keep the temps and humidity of your home or your "safe rooms" to where a tropical snake needs? I am almost certain snakes in the wild don't spend all day roaming around unless they are hunting. Instead after finding and eating a good meal they lay around and digest until they need to eat again, then they go search for more food (or just wait for more to come around). I bet if it really found a nice niche in your home that was a good hot spot it would curl up and probably wouldn't go anywhere. Since it is out of its home that you provide those conditions (or should) then yes its going to look for a better place to be.

And you totally missed my point about the chemicals and such. Snakes are close to the ground and crawl on their stomachs thus keeping them in conditions where they have to slide through something that could easily hurt them. Bottles of chemicals can leak, spill, and what not. I don't let my cat or dogs roam my home freely. They aren't allowed in the bathroom (except my cat who goes to her cat box) and not allowed into the kitchen. Animals are not bright! Not even the smartest of them. It is our job to keep them safe from themselves and many things that are not dangerous to us would be dangerous to a animal.

The screwdriver, the snake is long and can curl back on itself. Lets say that screwdriver (or knife) is caught up on the side of the snake when it curls back on itself...what is going to happen to the point or sharp edge when it does this? What happens when it knocks over a faulty bottle of chemical unto itself further back along its body? Is it unlikely to happen...maybe. Do you want to take that risk? I wouldn't think you would.

That is the last I am saying on the matter. I think it is foolish to allow any snake no matter how big or small to just roam a home. One day it is going to bite you in the butt...either the snake or the decision. Maybe both.

[Freebody]

beautiful snake bro, this is a good forum, you will like it, just be safe and keep her as healthy as she apears to be, GL. i really hope she does not pay the consiquises for your choices, but it is your snake and your rules which i cant argue with, she seems healthy and that is all anyone can ask for, but its not better for her to be out, in the cage is all she needs with some time out everyday or so, she has not enouph brain power to realize she get out and about, this is all for your own comfort of the situation regards to the puppy mill, cramped little cages which I hate, but my snake sit in their cages when i open them i bring them out alot, they are perfectly healthy and happy snake. as said to each his own. i bet my snakes go to one side of the cage and think, hey look a water source...cool, turn around go back , hey look a cave...cool, turn around , oh snap look a water source how cool lol but getting to stretch out is a must i can relate to, which is what taking them out for some quality time is all about :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

i do gotta say thank you for taking all this in stride and not going ballistic on anyone, good man. but stay safe

[Steph]

such a beauty but i agree with willow
and welcome to the forum :D

[Sapphyr]

Well seems like the core of all this is said and done. I completely agree with Willow's first statement, but through it all, I don't agree with what you're doing, but you have a right to what you do and think is best, just as I have a right to think you're petting your snake's own well being at risk.

At any rate, just as the others said, absolutely gorgeous snake, and I just hope she lives a long happy life without your decisions negatively effecting her.

I'd love to have a chance to hold a big old Burmese one day. Though, I don't think a Burmese will ever be a pet for me. Too big. I got cats and dogs, and I'd love to have a burmese free roam a proofed room for a while, but my other pet choices would be too much of a risk to ever responsibly own one in my house, unless I kept it locked up 24/7, besides handling, and I think stretching out, even for an hour or 30 minutes, is good for a big snake like that. And a note, I know absolutely nothing about Burmese Pythons, only that they get big and they're potentially dangerous.