Housing with cage mates?

[Tihsho]

Hey everyone!

I've been wanting a breeding project for a while and have always been fascinated by Kenyan Sand Boas, but never really took to them as they always hid. After speaking to someone about them recently, I didn't realize how docile and easy these guys are to keep and breed.

I've been reading a bunch of print and web articles regarding the husbandry of this species and some recommend keeping them as trios, others pairs and others solely in their own little space. The reason I ask is that I am looking to get a few unrelated neonates to start to fiddle with the genetic color combinations that exist. I was looking to get 2 pairs, if not just a trio and figured if I could house them together it would be great. But obviously for breeding sake this makes it a little difficult for the females. Any thoughts?

The ideas I've contemplated were:

1) A single 40 quart bin and spread a single inch of sand for them to hide in.
2) 1 20 quart bin for the male and a 30 quart bin for the females.
3) 1 20 quart bin for each individual snake.

This leads to another question. I keep seeing different views on sand, aspen and news paper. Other then cost, do any of them benefit more then the other? I figured newspaper is not the best idea as it will hold moisture easier, for an arid species of snake that sounds awkward. Then aspen is almost the same with moisture. Then sand, I find this option to be beneficial for temperature. Obviously sand will hold heat a lot better then either paper or aspen bedding.

Once again, ideas?

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[Damion930]

I just got a new lil ksb I've read quite a few times they can be housed together but this does not happen naturaly so in my opinion its probably still stressful on them and im undesided on the best substrate im using a mixture of sand and eco earth at the moment because its what I had on hand at the time the eco earth is compleatly dry and she can burrow easily and in some places the burrows hold and I feed her in a separate container so ther is no risk of her ingesting it im sure others will have more input for u hope my rambling helps lol

[Tihsho]

The other thing I just considered was to just get some larger tubs, 4' x 4', and just let them live in there separated by gender.

Damion, I do see your point. But I don't believe these snakes are territorial. I'm under the impression that if they get removed for feeding and get equal food and water there won't be a problem. Not saying this justifies housing them together as adults, but as neo's they may be fine?

[shaunyboy]

hello and welcome

i can't comment on your sand boa's as its only carpets i keep

i have all my carpets 2 to a tank

same sized females will live together

same sized male and females will live together

its only males i don't put together as they combat

I ALWAYS FEED SEPERATLEY

cheers shaun

[derekcm87]

I have never used sand but have heard nothing but negative things about using it. Supposedly the sand will get in between their scales and can cause irritation and possibly cause infections. As far as housing together, My personal opinion is that no snakes should be housed together except for breeding. House them seperately until your ready to breed them, Introduce them together in the same tub, put them back in their own home to feed, allow 48 hours for them to digest then put them back together. This is what I do when breeding my snakes. Theres just no reason to house them together otherwise? This is just my opinion. Many do it with success but I see it to be completely unnecessary.

[belovedboas]

I have owned a few sand boas in the past...and imo sand is bad...it get's in thier mouth quite easily and under their scales I would use aspen, It's safe easy to clean and is perfect for KSB's cause is it dry also perfect for snakes who love to burrow (as KSB's do)....and I wouldn't house them together...Don't have much exp. on the breeding aspect of it though. I do know it's alot of responsibility tied with experience:)

[Will0W783]

You cannot house KSBs together year-round, even a male/female pair. The female is likely to kill him when they are out of breeding season. I have a trio of albino/hybino KSBs and I keep the two females together when they are not in breeding season, but the male separate. When it's time to breed them, I remove one female and put the male in with the other.

[Tihsho]

Willow - Correct me if I'm wrong but your explanation sounded counter intuitive. To begin with you start by saying:

You cannot house KSBs together year-round

Then you go on with:

I keep the two females together when they are not in breeding season

It seems you do house the species together, but just segregated by gender as one of the options I was asking about said. Just clarifying... Not trying to start anything...

I just want to make sure I have a better idea of what I'm doing/going to do then just buy some KSB's and make mistakes finding out.

[Will0W783]

Guess I wasn't completely clear...you can't house a male/female pair together. When I bought the trio, I was told that female KSBs are one of the rare species that become aggressive towards males. The seller told me that I could house the two girls together though, and it's never been a problem. I'm remodeling things a bit so that I can separate those two though, to make things even better for them. Generally, snakes don't like to live together. They aren't communal creatures, and are healthier and less stressed when they have a space to themselves.

[Ch^4]

The biggest problem I see with housing 2 snakes together is illness. If one snake gets sick and is, for example, releasing bloody feces, it's impossible to know which snake is sick. You don't know which snake is sick and both snakes need to be taken to the vet. If the problem has progressed far enough without you noticing, you might end up with 2 dead snakes, instead of one. Just MHO.

[Tihsho]

Guess I wasn't completely clear...you can't house a male/female pair together. When I bought the trio, I was told that female KSBs are one of the rare species that become aggressive towards males. The seller told me that I could house the two girls together though, and it's never been a problem.

Willow - Thanks for clarifying. The main time I'm looking to house them together is while they are young. After they hit about 100-150 grams I plan on separating them.

The biggest problem I see with housing 2 snakes together is illness. If one snake gets sick and is, for example, releasing bloody feces, it's impossible to know which snake is sick. You don't know which snake is sick and both snakes need to be taken to the vet. If the problem has progressed far enough without you noticing, you might end up with 2 dead snakes, instead of one. Just MHO.

Ch^4 - That did come to mind... I haven't heard too many issues with people having and or getting sick KSB's. The only issue I seem to see a lot is a KSB not eating.

The main reason I'm asking is I've been an aquarium and small reptile person over the past 15 years. I'm in the process of downsizing from aquariums to reptiles that are little less maintenance as well as I can handle and breed. If I could consolidate the KSB's as neonates for a few months as I move some fish out and make space for that would be great. Otherwise I'll just stick to getting a single neonate for the time being.

[Shmoges]

Makes sense to me that the female adults would be aggressive to the adult males out of breeding season for the simple reason they are 2 to 3 times the size.