Feeding f/t techniques

[NennaMeerkat]

Last week my normal supplier for live pinkies moved over an hour away and now I find myself forced to try and feed f/t. Because I am sure more than one person might have to go or gone through something similar I was thinking it would be a good idea for everyone to give techniques when it comes to feed f/t rodents to snakes.

So feel free to post all your techniques for feeding f/t rodents, cause I am anxious to hear!

[derekcm87]

For most of my snakes they eat f/t without any issues and in that case I grab the rodent with a pair of hemostats and just hold it in front of them and they take it. I do have a handful that are a little trickier and require a bit more action on my part. Would you like to hear the tricks to get them to eat f/t if they dont want to?

[NennaMeerkat]

I think that would be a nice idea since at this moment my hognose is basically running from the f/t even with movement or just leaving them in the aquarium with her. Avoiding them as if they were plagued.

[derekcm87]

Haha! One way is to get a small deli cup container and placing him/her in it with the f/t item and leaving them in a dark room with no disturbances whatsoever. Sometimes overnight is necessary. You can try scenting the f/t food with a live mouse. You can try splitting the head of the mouse so that the blood and brains are exposed, sometimes that smell makes them more interested in it. You can combine all of those techniques as well for best results? How long has it been since your hognose has eaten? Has it ever taken f/t? Alot of times if they get hungry enough they will give in and eat f/t.

[NennaMeerkat]

I had her in a deli cup earlier but she tipped it over trying to get out. Damn near lost her because of it to. So put her in a bigger cup and that one she scaled (thought it was to big) but thankfully this time she was in her home. So put a object on top and her back in and ended up knocking off the object and the cup. Now she is in a tupperware with holes punched into the top and all she has been doing since then is trying her hardest to get out. Gonna take her out since she is obviously in no mood for any of this nonsense.

And it has been 2 weeks since she has eaten. I know she is hungry I tried putting in a small live "fuzzy" in with her yesterday and she rolled it and such but never ate it. Then for most of the day went into a hunt mode searching for more food that was smaller since apparently that one was to big.

TBH I am a bit worried about her not eating. I know that snakes can go a while without eating but for a young snake going 2 weeks has to be more dangerous than an adult snake going for 2 weeks right?

[derekcm87]

I had her in a deli cup earlier but she tipped it over trying to get out. Damn near lost her because of it to. So put her in a bigger cup and that one she scaled (thought it was to big) but thankfully this time she was in her home. So put a object on top and her back in and ended up knocking off the object and the cup. Now she is in a tupperware with holes punched into the top and all she has been doing since then is trying her hardest to get out. Gonna take her out since she is obviously in no mood for any of this nonsense.

And it has been 2 weeks since she has eaten. I know she is hungry I tried putting in a small live "fuzzy" in with her yesterday and she rolled it and such but never ate it. Then for most of the day went into a hunt mode searching for more food that was smaller since apparently that one was to big.

TBH I am a bit worried about her not eating. I know that snakes can go a while without eating but for a young snake going 2 weeks has to be more dangerous than an adult snake going for 2 weeks right?

I usually put them in a deli cup and put the deli cup inside the cage that way if they do get out of the deli cup somehow they are atleast safely contained within their enclosure... I am assuming since you noticed her trying to get out of the deli cup for a long time, you were watching her? I have made that mistake before. I will think they have been in there long enough and have eaten but when I open the tub they will be eating but as soon as they see me they will spit it out so in that case I immediately hit myself in the head for disturbing them, shut the cage and leave them overnight and the food is always gone by morning. The littlest interruptions can make them not eat. It is frustrating. Another thing I forgot to mention to try when converting them to f/t is to feed them a freshly killed or stunned mouse. Yeah an adult snake can definately go much longer than a baby without eating... If it has had quiet a few meals in it, two weeks isnt going to kill it but you should definately start trying different ways, as you are.

[NennaMeerkat]

No I left the deli cup in there for three hours and when I thought I hear a noise I went and checked. Once moving her back to her cage the cage is in the room I am working in right now so all I have to do is look over my shoulder without getting close. It has been nothing but her constantly wanting to get out even now since I still havent taken her out of the tupperware. Honestly I just don't think she wants ANYTHING to do with the f/t and that is fine normally, but with NO ONE in the area selling any pinkies I just don't know what to do.

I know a place that will get them next wednesday and I can order some, but that would make her 3 weeks without eating. I would think it would be to much of a stress on her system. And besides yesterday when she was "hunting" and today trying very very hard to get out of the containers she hasn't been as active as she was when she was eating regularly.

EDIT: Just took her out, put her in her home with one hide and the two pinkies in the hide. Left the head lamp on and covered the entire thing with a towel (towel is not touching the heat lamp). Gonna just leave her in there over night and see what happens. But at the same time I am still not holding my breath.

[Lankyrob]

The biggest thing is to relax. As long as the snake is active and drinking then they will last a long time without food. Trying too many different things,or trying too often will stress the snake and make it less likely to eat. I feed fortnightly and if a snake doesnt eat it waits til the next feeding day. I have a BP currently eight weeks without feeding, the snake is less than a year old.

F/t prey should be heated as hot as you can get it, i hold the prey with feeding tongs by the scruff of its nect and place it one the floor of the viv (on a plate) and dance it around to attract the snake. If the snake takes it straight away thats cool if not i leave it in the viv on the plate overnight.

[derekcm87]

You say her cage is the room you are working in? Another thing that it could be is that too much activity around her cage can be stressing her out and in turn making her refuse food. Maybe thats why she killed the live fuzzy but didnt want to eat it. It also may be a good thing she didnt eat it because if it is stress and she did eat the live fuzzy, stress can make them regurge their meal and battling that is a whole other problem that is a real pain in the you know what. What kind of work are you doing in the room?

[derekcm87]

Yes, what rob said as well. Trying to feed too often can also stress the snake out and contribute even more to the issue.

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks Lanky I am just leaving the two pinkies in with her that I thawed. If she eats them I will be uber happy but not holding my breath on it. Hopefully the place that was supposed to have pinkies today will have them tomorrow, if not I will thaw two more pinkies and try again.

I just hope this entire thing doesn't give me a dead snake due to her not eating because I can't find a gd store with live pinkies. When I owned my corns in Kansas there were 4 different stores that sold live feeder mice within a 10 mile radius, in Georgia it was the same thing. Now I get to Texas where you can own durn near anything and it is IMPOSSIBLE to find a place that sells the food for the snakes they sell.

You say her cage is the room you are working in? Another thing that it could be is that too much activity around her cage can be stressing her out and in turn making her refuse food. Maybe thats why she killed the live fuzzy but didnt want to eat it. It also may be a good thing she didnt eat it because if it is stress and she did eat the live fuzzy, stress can make them regurge their meal and battling that is a whole other problem that is a real pain in the you know what. What kind of work are you doing in the room?

I would be concerned about that IF she had trouble eating the live pinkies she would normally get if my store was still here. She didn't actually kill the fuzzy yesterday since she doesn't constrict (hognose don't constrict just grab and slowly swallow) but did play with it a good amount. This is the same problem I have had with every snake I have owned or rehabbed they just won't take the f/t. Have tried this with her when I first got her (after waiting about 9 days for her to settle) and she didn't eat then either but as soon as I put live in there she went for them immediately and ate no problem...even with me standing there watching her. If it is frozen she runs from them like they are the plague.

[Aaron_S]

You're stressing the snake out with all these attempts. If it doesn't eat the pinks by morning throw them out and leave her for another week. She'll be fine with the previous meal after 3 weeks. It isn't a big deal.

Lastly, you need to find a frog. A native one. If a pet store sells bull frogs or whatever see if they have any dead in the freezer. You don't need the animal alive. This is a hognose snake we're talking about so scenting it with live mice won't work. It needs to be scented with what it'll take in the wild. They love frogs. All you need to do is thaw the frog out and rug the head of the pink on it. Then try offering again.

You can re-freeze the frog multiple times since you're only using it for scenting. A few scented meals and you can then attempt without.

[NennaMeerkat]

You're stressing the snake out with all these attempts. If it doesn't eat the pinks by morning throw them out and leave her for another week. She'll be fine with the previous meal after 3 weeks. It isn't a big deal.

Lastly, you need to find a frog. A native one. If a pet store sells bull frogs or whatever see if they have any dead in the freezer. You don't need the animal alive. This is a hognose snake we're talking about so scenting it with live mice won't work. It needs to be scented with what it'll take in the wild. They love frogs. All you need to do is thaw the frog out and rug the head of the pink on it. Then try offering again.

You can re-freeze the frog multiple times since you're only using it for scenting. A few scented meals and you can then attempt without.

Funny I was actually dreading you posting here for some reason Aaron. But I do appreciate it all the same.

Anyways, I have already taken the pinkies out (they had been in there since 10am and it is 4pm now) and left her alone. Tomorrow I am gonna call what will hopefully be my new store to get live pinkies and if not my #2 store will be the next place to go and that will be next Wednesday.

As for the frog thing, no there are now no stores in the area that sell local or even exotic frogs. The same store I used to get my live pinkies also sold frogs that they were going to give him one if she had trouble with live.

As I said before tried f/t when I first got her with no results (after 9 days of leaving her be) and the breeder I had gotten her from said she fed live so I went with live. And of course she ate.

Just gotta find a store that will regularly sell feeder mice live that have pinkies as well. You would think it would not be that hard without having to drive an hour or so to the next town over...so to speak.

[derekcm87]

If it eats live mice, scenting it with a live mouse could very well work. But the frog thing sounds like a good idea and sounds promising.

[Reptile_Reptile]

feeding f/t is kinda a hard proccess to get a snake into

try scenting the frozen pinkie with soiled mouse substrate to make it smell really strong. and you can cut a hole in the pinkies head (braining)
i personally didnt have to do this my snakes just dont care what they eat
hope i helped

[Aaron_S]

If it eats live mice, scenting it with a live mouse could very well work....

This makes no sense. I understand that dead mice and live mice might have a slightly different scent but overall I doubt it's the smell at that point.

What are your temps at? I have been very interested in keeping these guys again and I got some really good info on keeping them from a breeder friend. He likes to keep them hot and dry. He keeps his at a 90 - 92 degree hot side. Eat like champs. Feeds all his babies F/T right out of the egg. Rarely does he need to scent. Yours started on live so it'll be harder.

[NennaMeerkat]

My temps are near that. Recently had to turn off my under the tank heater cause it was getting to hot. Waiting on my dimmer to come in the mail before I start using it again. Not sure if that is the problem or not. The temp difference isn't that much since I turned it off, mainly used at night right now since my house gets really cold then and didn't want the lamp on 24/7

And maybe if my breeder had used f/t from the egg my snake now would do so. But she fed live to all her snakes. Got no problem feeding live if I could readily find said pinkies right now my snake would be fed, happy, and me not stressing. At this point I am giving up on f/t and going to do a lot of phone calls tomorrow once again to see if anyone has pinkies. Hopefully they will.

Still don't understand stores that sell snakes and not their food...and that does include frozen. Plenty of snake selling stores but not so much their food.

[Aaron_S]

Weird. Money is in the food. That's a regular cash flow.

What is "near that"? If it's below 90 then it could be part of the reason this is an issue. I pretty much believe these guys are dryer, very slightly cooler ball pythons.

[Lankyrob]

If it is slightly cooler the snakecould well not eat as they need the correct temps for digestion. It may be once the heatmat is back on track and the temps back to what they were the snake will eat.

[NennaMeerkat]

Weird. Money is in the food. That's a regular cash flow.Most of the stores around here I wouldn't buy from to begin with, most of their snakes do not look up to par with what I have seen on here and the one expo I went to in December. Not to mention most snakes are in WAY small homes and no sort of hides. Just basically carpet and water bowl with a heat lamp kind of thing. They sell snakes to make their money think they could honestly care less about the food.

As far as temperature goes it is usually around something between 90 and 92 degrees. Right now it is somewhere in the 87 degree area.

I wouldn't think a variant of a few degrees would mean that much...but I will try that and see what happens. A store I called a few moments ago (no pinkies) said she could be getting ready to shed but I haven't seen the blue eyes. She has been cruising around the water dish more, but as I said no blue eyes. Since I am in the same room with her I would have thought I would notice something like that, or a "dulling" of the scale color.

[Aaron_S]

She could be. Some snakes will still eat in shed though.

You need to find out exact temps. Not this "somewhere" or "usually" business. I don't get where you think a few degrees variance is an ok thing. Keepers don't suggest 86 - 95 degrees just because the snake will survive. It's suggested at 90 -92 for a reason and purpose. It isn't a random number thought up.

[NennaMeerkat]

Well I would but my gauge for measuring the temp stopped reliably taking the temp and thus Friday when I get paid I will get a new one until then I have to deal with what I have...which sucks as well as having no dimmer yet. Everything I thought was good isn't and trust me I normally could give you an accurate temp and have those temps right. Sucks not having the money when I need it.

No I don't think having the temps ranging is a good thing I am in the process of correcting that error. The fact of the matter is I didn't know her temps when I fed her when I first got her and the feedings afterward. Thus really the only thing that could change the temps is lack of under tank heater. Whatever the temp was before I got my crappy tank thermometer while the heating pad was on was obviously good enough for her to eat even if it wasn't in the 90's range or even exactly 92.

[derekcm87]

This makes no sense. I understand that dead mice and live mice might have a slightly different scent but overall I doubt it's the smell at that point.

I really dont want to seem lilke I am arguing. But it does make perfect sense, This is why you use the "braining" technique to increase the smell of the food item.... and when you freeze and thaw out a rodent in water alot of that smell is lost! Its the smell that triggers a snakes food response, When you dangle a rat in front of a snake, what is the first thing that happens, they flick their tongue to get the smell of the rodent to their jacobsons organ to tell them hey this is food. So if a snake voluntarily is eating live mice it associates that familiar smell with food and it eats. Scenting could very well not work in this situation but saying that it makes no sense to scent, makes no sense.

[derekcm87]

But to avoid a hijack of this thread. I guess we can agree to disagree. I think good information was given and the op will get his snake to eat.

[NennaMeerkat]

Lets hope I can get my snake to eat (and I am not a he ;) ) Hoping I can find live tomorrow to be honest.

[derekcm87]

Lets hope I can get my snake to eat (and I am not a he ;) ) Hoping I can find live tomorrow to be honest.

Woops I apalogize!

[NennaMeerkat]

Not a problem I know that a majority of the reptile owning world is male.

[derekcm87]

Not a problem I know that a majority of the reptile owning world is male.

I usually call all snakes a she/her even when I know they are a male....

[NennaMeerkat]

Oh well I meant the people that owned the snakes...not the snakes themselves.

[derekcm87]

Oh well I meant the people that owned the snakes...not the snakes themselves.

Oh I know I was just saying, its a habit...

[NennaMeerkat]

Gotcha was just making sure. I usually do the same thing for most animals.

[Aaron_S]

I really dont want to seem lilke I am arguing. But it does make perfect sense, This is why you use the "braining" technique to increase the smell of the food item.... and when you freeze and thaw out a rodent in water alot of that smell is lost! Its the smell that triggers a snakes food response, When you dangle a rat in front of a snake, what is the first thing that happens, they flick their tongue to get the smell of the rodent to their jacobsons organ to tell them hey this is food. So if a snake voluntarily is eating live mice it associates that familiar smell with food and it eats. Scenting could very well not work in this situation but saying that it makes no sense to scent, makes no sense.

Fair enough. I'd still go with a frog as it's their natural prey item.

[derekcm87]

Fair enough. I'd still go with a frog as it's their natural prey item.

A frog is a good idea.

[NennaMeerkat]

Okay so still no live pinkies ANYWHERE in the area (just so durn frustrating) so am I going to try the f/t pinkies again today.

Since I can't think of really anything else that would make her turn away like they were plague mice I am wondering...

How long should I put 2 frozen pinkies in hot water before trying to feed them to my snake?

[derekcm87]

Okay so still no live pinkies ANYWHERE in the area (just so durn frustrating) so am I going to try the f/t pinkies again today.

Since I can't think of really anything else that would make her turn away like they were plague mice I am wondering...

How long should I put 2 frozen pinkies in hot water before trying to feed them to my snake?


forgive me if you said but how long has it been since you last attempted to feed frozen thawed? I know you really want to get your snake to eat but I would wait atleast 4-5 days if not a week in between trying to feed otherwise the stress of you trying to get it to eat and it not wanting to will just aide in it not eating and then you will become more frustrated etc. I usually allow 10 minutes or so of thawing for pinkies, they are small and dont take much time at all. Just feel between your fingers to make sure they are not still frozen in the center.

[Lankyrob]

In terms of heating them once they are thawed - i put the glass bowl containing all the prey items on top of a hot radiator for about ten minutes. Then just as i am about to feed i take the single prey item and press its skull against the radiator to really get some heat into the head of the prey, then i feed.

In terms of defrosting i leave them at room temperature for about 8 hours or so.

And i would say i agree with Derek, i would wait at least a week (or in my case a fortnight as i feed fortnightly) before trying again.

[NennaMeerkat]

And i would say i agree with Derek, i would wait at least a week (or in my case a fortnight as i feed fortnightly) before trying again.

She has not eaten in two weeks (going to be three on Friday) and for the last 3 days (excluding yesterday) she has been out doing laps around her home as well as scaling the walls as much as she can. This is behavior that is unlike her in general, makes me think she is trying to find food.

EDIT:
What if I just heat up the two pinkies and leave them on a plate without messing with her. Just put the pinks in there (in front of where she is hiding if she is) and leave it and her alone. Throw a large towel over the entire home and just leave.

[Aaron_S]

I thought you said you attempted to feed her just yesterday or the day before.

If you DO attempt it again leave them in OVERNIGHT. Not just throughout the day.

[Lankyrob]

Or she could be reacting like that cos she is stressed. Waiting (as long as the condition of the snake isnt deteriorating) is going to help in two ways. 1, if she is stressed she will have time to calm down and 2, if she is hungry now then in another week she is going to be even more hungry and more likely to take whatever food comes along.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but general advice with non feeding snakes is Zero handling until they have eaten a few times on a regular basis again. If it is a stress issue that is stopping the feeding resposne then you dont want to add to it by handling as well.

[Lankyrob]

looking back through the thread it was only yesterday that you tried - i would definitely leave it a week.

[NennaMeerkat]

I thought you said you attempted to feed her just yesterday or the day before.

If you DO attempt it again leave them in OVERNIGHT. Not just throughout the day.

I tried yesterday (10am) and then took them out of her home after she didn't eat them (around midnight) before I went to bed. Early in the day I had tried in a different container thinking that might be it but after an hour of her just trying to get out I put her back in her home with the f/t pinks.

And if snakes eat f/t because they have heat like a real live pink then wouldn't after several hours they become cold again thus giving no incentive to get the snake to eat? I know when I moved my f/t pinks to her home yesterday they had become cold.

[NennaMeerkat]

looking back through the thread it was only yesterday that you tried - i would definitely leave it a week.

How long do I have to be stressed about her not eating? What if she doesn't eat them next week...just gonna say to wait another week then. How long before I should be concerned about this? I have never had trouble like this for live and yet with f/t it seems that its a pain in my behind!

[derekcm87]

I thought you said you attempted to feed her just yesterday or the day before.

If you DO attempt it again leave them in OVERNIGHT. Not just throughout the day.


Agreed, Overnight! And I still think when you do attempt f/t again that sticking her in a deli cup with the lid, place the cup in the cage, and do as you said, put a towel over the cage and just leave. The deli cup in a dark quiet room overnight really does work wonders... Dont worry, your snake will not die of starvation if she hasnt eaten in 2-3 weeks.

[Lankyrob]

If they start of hot and in the enclosure then imo the smell will stay within the enclosure and entice them to feed. My BP (when it eats) will sometimes only take the prey overnight in total isolation. Other times he will strike and eat whilst i am tease feeding. So i start the process by teasefeeding all my snakes (bar the retic) with a hot prey item and if they dont take it i then leave it until the following morning - in total the prey is probably in the viv for about 24 hours. I tend to feed first thing once little one is at school and wont take the prey item out till the same time next day.

[Lankyrob]

How long do I have to be stressed about her not eating? What if she doesn't eat them next week...just gonna say to wait another week then. How long before I should be concerned about this? I have never had trouble like this for live and yet with f/t it seems that its a pain in my behind!


The more the stressed you are the more stressed teh snake will be imo. I have had snakes go weeks without eating (especially at this time of the year with breeding season etc.), my BP is now 8 weeks in i think.

Once they are eating f/t you also have no worries about the prey item fighting back and injuring the snake.

[derekcm87]

How long do I have to be stressed about her not eating? What if she doesn't eat them next week...just gonna say to wait another week then. How long before I should be concerned about this? I have never had trouble like this for live and yet with f/t it seems that its a pain in my behind!


It may be a pain now but not going to turn this into a live/f/t debate but f/t is much safer for your snake, not only injury wise but any parasites, mites that may be on the live rodent which is VERY probably are killed when the rodent is frozen. Once they are converted, you have the experience and knowledge and know that you have eliminated several risks that could be posed to your snake. but anyway back on topic. Yes if she doesnt eat this week, try again next week. I had a king snake I hatched last year that would not eat ANYTHING! Live or f/t. Every week I tried something different. I even went as far as wrapping a pinky head in a moist corn snake skin (pinkie in a blanket) because kings love to eat other snakes, in a deli cup over night. Nothing I tried worked. She went an entire month without a single meal EVER.

[NennaMeerkat]

All of you seem to have boas and pythons and my snake is neither. How do I honestly know that a snake that is much smaller than any of the tropical snakes that in general are much bigger at the same age as my snake can go as long without eating? She is not even as thick as my first finger right now.

I know I am probably just over reacting about this and I am sorry but I am reminded why I had not gotten a snake while living here before. It is impossible to find the live food that has always proven to work 100% of the time and not this hit and miss crap I am having with f/t.

It seems that simply because they aren't alive I suddenly have to do all this extra stuff so she will eat while with live I just put them in move her in front of them and she eats while I am standing there watching. For f/t I have to put her in another container or cover the home or make it dark or whatever other things that I simply don't have to do with live.

EDIT:

Not going to try to feed her for another week, not going to mess with her or anything just like when I first got her. Hopefully next week she will it the GD f/t for me. Also not going to respond to this thread any longer. Everything is kind of pointless at this point.

[derekcm87]

All of you seem to have boas and pythons and my snake is neither. How do I honestly know that a snake that is much smaller than any of the tropical snakes that in general are much bigger at the same age as my snake can go as long without eating? She is not even as thick as my first finger right now.

I know I am probably just over reacting about this and I am sorry but I am reminded why I had not gotten a snake while living here before. It is impossible to find the live food that has always proven to work 100% of the time and not this hit and miss crap I am having with f/t.

It seems that simply because they aren't alive I suddenly have to do all this extra stuff so she will eat while with live I just put them in move her in front of them and she eats while I am standing there watching. For f/t I have to put her in another container or cover the home or make it dark or whatever other things that I simply don't have to do with live.


I do have boas and pythons but I also have dozens of colubrids. Some snakes are stubborn when it comes to f/t but usually its a one time thing, once they eat f/t they will not give you any more trouble. And even if they do keep requiring certain techniques. Its not that big of a deal.

[Lankyrob]

But with F/t you dont have to worry about the prey eating the snake. It is the classic f/t vs live argument. The other thing with f/t is once you find a supplier you can fill your freezer with prey so that you dont have to shop again for a couple of months. you can even order online and have them delivered.

It is stressful with your first non feeding snake. Look back at my posts from last year and i had my first non feeding bp. You do worry and the worst outcomes go through your head.

Once it has happened once, as with most things, you find yourself much more relaxed the next time round. And thats when you can offer good advice to others.

Admittedly i have never had a hoggie but form massive amounts of reading and research generally about snakes everyone says that they can go much much much longer than we would ever believe.

[Reptile_Reptile]

yea i know its hard nanna but its a necessity if you want your snake to never be hurt, i just got this picture and it can very well be your snake. F/T is just the more responsible choice. its less physically dangerous, less stressful, and reduces the risk of all parasites that can harm your snake internally. and as a general rule of thumb ANY snake can go an easy 5-10 months no eating and thats a newborn without a single meal in it. a lot of snakes wont even eat until they have a winter cool down just after they are born.

[NennaMeerkat]

Was that done by a rat or a mouse? I could believe it with a rat! I would never feed a live rat to any snake without stunning it first. I don't intend to feed my hognose any mice without stunning them first. There are safe ways to feed live to a snake. I mean plenty of breeders (including the one I got my snake from) feeds their snakes live and if what that picture shows happened often then no one would be doing so. It doesn't seem like a common event. Under supervision it can be safe.

[Reptile_Reptile]

no it cant be safe under supervision, and to tell the truth it doesnt matter what harmed that bp cause a mouse can do the same thing as a rat, you will never be fast enough no matter how hard you try to save your snake from at least getting bitten and scratched up at least a bit. and granted it may just be superficial but do you even want your snake getting hurt. but there is a chance that the mouse could just crush the snakes skull simple and easy 1 bite is all it takes ot maybe hitting its lung or liver or any internal organ (snakes only get 1 of each) or maybe taking out an eye or two. bottom line is a scared mouse can kill your hoggie faster then you can even react i promise. it takes a while but snakes can go without eating for a while all you have to do is wait it out if nothing else and i guarantee your snake will eat it. and hell if not you can always feed a live to get something in her and try again. im not trying to be a jerk but saying a snake wont take F/T is lazy, EVERY snake can and will take F/T with enough patience. they eat dead stuff in the wild (not comparing a captive snake to a wild snake just saying its in their nature to eat carrion) and end product it will probably be the best thing you can do for you snake.

[derekcm87]

Was that done by a rat or a mouse? I could believe it with a rat! I would never feed a live rat to any snake without stunning it first. I don't intend to feed my hognose any mice without stunning them first. There are safe ways to feed live to a snake. I mean plenty of breeders (including the one I got my snake from) feeds their snakes live and if what that picture shows happened often then no one would be doing so. It doesn't seem like a common event. Under supervision it can be safe.


It could of been a mouse. If a snake refuses to eat for whatever reason the mouse can suddenly decide to attack the snake and sometimes the snake will do nothing resulting in something like this. Also even a mouse can inflict a painful bite. They have big teeth and if the snake grabs the mouse and the mouse is able to turn around and bite the snake in the head, you have a real problem on your hands. I understand (dont agree) why people think its ok because big breeders do it because apparently these guys are doing something right(look where they are at) and its a rare occurence but I like to think of a chris rock stand up that says you can drive a car with your feet but that doesnt mean you should. And just because they are big breeders and know about snakes and keep lots of them does not mean they are doing everything correct im sure if you were to ask any of them if they have in their years had an incident with a live mouse and their snake they will have one, if they are being honest. Its just odds, It may not happen for 1,000 feedings but # 1,001 it can happen. But yes thankfully you do understand that you should atleast stun the mouse first.

[derekcm87]

[quote=Reptile_Reptile;586678] im not trying to be a jerk but saying a snake wont take F/T is lazy, EVERY snake can and will take F/T with enough patience. quote]

I was trying to think of a nice way to say that. Ditto!

[NennaMeerkat]

It could of been a mouse. If a snake refuses to eat for whatever reason the mouse can suddenly decide to attack the snake and sometimes the snake will do nothing resulting in something like this.

I would NEVER leave a live mouse in a aquarium for any length of time with a snake. It only takes seconds to see if a snake wants to eat or not. If it doesn't show interest I take it out.

im not trying to be a jerk but saying a snake wont take F/T is lazy, EVERY snake can and will take F/T with enough patience.

You can have the opinions you want to have about f/t vs. live food but calling me lazy because I choose to feed live is something completely different. I always want what is best for my snake thus my attempts to give her a comfortable home, get the temps exact, and everything else you can imagine. What I don't want to do is stress her out and in the several attempts I have tried to feed her f/t has ended up with her not eating, being stressed, and me unable to mess with her for another week. Since getting her at the beginning of December half the times that I have fed her (or attempted) I have tried f/t or a mixture of f/t and live. Every time has ended with her eating nothing or eating just the live.

Is it 100% impossible to believe that she simply doesn't want f/t? Sure SOME snakes scavenge but does that mean ALL snakes scavenge? I find it hard to believe. Whatever the case you can call me what you will and think me horrible for feeding her live food but I ask personal opinions be kept silent. I am far from "lazy" and in fact stress to the point of tears simply because my snake hasn't eaten in 2 weeks.

When she gets older I will be feeding her freshly killed or stunned prey to keep her from getting hurt and if in that time when she doesn't choose to eat I will remove the prey to keep her from getting hurt. From everything I have read hamsters and rats left in the home with the snake for hours on end leave the snake in danger.

[Ch^4]

All of you seem to have boas and pythons and my snake is neither. How do I honestly know that a snake that is much smaller than any of the tropical snakes that in general are much bigger at the same age as my snake can go as long without eating? She is not even as thick as my first finger right now.

I know I am probably just over reacting about this and I am sorry but I am reminded why I had not gotten a snake while living here before. It is impossible to find the live food that has always proven to work 100% of the time and not this hit and miss crap I am having with f/t.

It seems that simply because they aren't alive I suddenly have to do all this extra stuff so she will eat while with live I just put them in move her in front of them and she eats while I am standing there watching. For f/t I have to put her in another container or cover the home or make it dark or whatever other things that I simply don't have to do with live.

EDIT:

Not going to try to feed her for another week, not going to mess with her or anything just like when I first got her. Hopefully next week she will it the GD f/t for me. Also not going to respond to this thread any longer. Everything is kind of pointless at this point.

Neena, I know you are concerned, but please try not to stress too much. Leaving her be for a week is likely the best thing you can do prior to attempting to feed her again. (Sorry for the late post as well.)

As far as size goes, here is a pic of our little corn. She's no thicker than a pencil. (That's my girlfriends pinkie finger...and she has tiny hands!)

She's easily gone 3 weeks without food. IF it was 3 months, then I'd be a little concerned, but 3-8 weeks without a meal should be no problem. My now adult BP went 8 months without food when he was still a juvenile. Scary, yes. Frustrating, yes. Stressful, yes. Will your sweet lil hoggy be okay with going 4 weeks without a meal, yes! (IMHO)

[Marica]

I have read of several instances where a breeder was unable to get a hatchling corn snake to take their first meal for several months that was eventually successful. There are tons of methods that people have tried when switching to f/t or even just getting a finicking eater feeding from fresh kill, slitting/cutting f/t, scenting with various live or dead prey, scenting with canned tuna or salmon (I found a post from a hognose breeder that has had success with rubbing f/t prey on canned salmon that they froze), dethawing in a plastic bag placed in hot water so it doesn't get wet or heating up a dethawed item with a hairdryer (one of my Dums doesn't like wet rat so we do both previous), washing dethawed prey with soap, etc. It can be a difficult process, but thousands if not millions of snakes have been switched to f/t and I've read multiple times "that you're not unsuccessful in switching, you just haven't tried hard enough."

One of my little corn snakes had several refusals and a couple regurges last year and went without a meal for several weeks at some points. After a regurge and/or refusal we'd offer a pinky mouse head cut off with scissors after thawing for 5-10 minutes in hot water, or a head and body separated, or pinky mouse with a slit behind the neck. We never tried to feed more often than once weekly and always placed the snake in a tupperware container with the lid sealed and left in the dark for at least half an hour. We also had difficulties getting our 2 baby Dumeril's boas to take their first meals with us, both taking about 4-5 weeks. One always refused his meals when we placed him in a feeding tub, but will take f/t in his viv know if dangled with tongs. The other will now eat in a tub lined with paper towel, but also requires us to dangle the food in his face. My first corn was eating live when I got him and I've heard that the breeder of one of my Dums usually feeds his snakes live. All of my snakes are now eating f/t regularly, minus a few that refuse when in shed. For me it is cheaper, easier, and I feel it's safer for my animals.

[derekcm87]

Not calling you a lazy person! Just want you to keep trying. Do not give up so easily. Dont worry about feeding the snake for a week then try again. This is a general statement not directed to you personally but I have noticed people that feed live have are very stubborn about doing so. Why is this?

[derekcm87]

I have read of several instances where a breeder was unable to get a hatchling corn snake to take their first meal for several months that was eventually successful. There are tons of methods that people have tried when switching to f/t or even just getting a finicking eater feeding from fresh kill, slitting/cutting f/t, scenting with various live or dead prey, scenting with canned tuna or salmon (I found a post from a hognose breeder that has had success with rubbing f/t prey on canned salmon that they froze), dethawing in a plastic bag placed in hot water so it doesn't get wet or heating up a dethawed item with a hairdryer (one of my Dums doesn't like wet rat so we do both previous), washing dethawed prey with soap, etc. It can be a difficult process, but thousands if not millions of snakes have been switched to f/t and I've read multiple times "that you're not unsuccessful in switching, you just haven't tried hard enough."


One of my little corn snakes had several refusals and a couple regurges last year and went without a meal for several weeks at some points. After a regurge and/or refusal we'd offer a pinky mouse head cut off with scissors after thawing for 5-10 minutes in hot water, or a head and body separated, or pinky mouse with a slit behind the neck. We never tried to feed more often than once weekly and always placed the snake in a tupperware container with the lid sealed and left in the dark for at least half an hour. We also had difficulties getting our 2 baby Dumeril's boas to take their first meals with us, both taking about 4-5 weeks. One always refused his meals when we placed him in a feeding tub, but will take f/t in his viv know if dangled with tongs. The other will now eat in a tub lined with paper towel, but also requires us to dangle the food in his face. My first corn was eating live when I got him and I've heard that the breeder of one of my Dums usually feeds his snakes live. All of my snakes are now eating f/t regularly, minus a few that refuse when in shed. For me it is cheaper, easier, and I feel it's safer for my animals.

good post.

[Lankyrob]

I would just like to say that not one person has suggested that you are horrible for feeding live. You have expressed interest in feeding f/t and everyone has been giving advice on how to et your snake to feed this way as well as trying to allay your fears and concerns.

It seems from my own experience snakes tend te repeat beaviours and getting this to change is difficult. But with time and patience it is possible. Your snake needs to learn over time that f/t is food that is the same as live. It is not going to learn this quickly by the sounds of it, but IF you want it to feed long term on f/t then you need to be consistent, calm and patient. If you dont want to switch it to f/t then this whole thread is pretty much pointless.

It is my opinion that if you offer f/t, then live or a mixture of both this is going to confuse the animal. Again IF you want to switch it then offer F/t once a wekk until it eats. After another couple of weeks i would be then tempted to try other methods of tempting it, ie scenting or braining etc but for the next couple of weekes i would just offer the f/t pinky, leave it overnight if necessary but if it doesnt eat then i wouldnt offer anything else for another week.

[Marica]

Good points Rob. When I was dealing with the refusals I didn't want to get carried away trying too many methods as this can be just as confusing for them. Best to try the simpler or easier methods for the first few attempts, then if you feel they are not enticing enough to try the next option. Also, once you are confident that your snake is on a regular feeding schedule with whatever method finally works, there is always the option of slowly easing off of or decreasing any modifications such as scenting, washing, etc.

And I don't think this thread will be of no worth no matter the outcome for Neena's hoggie. As you've stated the responses have been positive and informative. You never know when someone's Google search will lead them here.

[Marica]

What I don't want to do is stress her out and in the several attempts I have tried to feed her f/t has ended up with her not eating, being stressed, and me unable to mess with her for another week.

You could always get another snake :yes:
Seriously though, if you got another snake, one that was already on f/t, it might ease your stress by giving you f/t feeding experience and give you someone else to handle.

[NennaMeerkat]

You could always get another snake
Seriously though, if you got another snake, one that was already on f/t, it might ease your stress by giving you f/t feeding experience and give you someone else to handle.

Right now we don't have the room for another snake. However when one of our tanks clears up (we have rats that are in aquariums) I am considering getting another corn and this time making sure that 1. it is a bit older and 2. has been fed f/t many times

Then perhaps things will go more smoothly. The whole point was that my husband knew how much I LOVE hognose and so he sorta surprised me at an expo and bought me one of the only females that were there. At the time he didn't think about f/t vs. live feedings since we had fed our corns live the last time we had snakes. Its really no big deal though. Found a place 30min away from my home that should supply me with sanitary pinkies and mice to feed my snake. Unlike the many numerous feed stores that I was scared to rely on.

[NennaMeerkat]

Also I want to apologize if I came off snappy and rude to anyone earlier in the discussion. It was not my intention to get into a debate/argument over which feeding method to go with. Simply wants techniques that people had to giving f/t in general. Wasn't wanting to make it about my snake in particular but it ended up that way. I hope I have not turned anyone off to talking with me and if so I apologize. Stress makes me a real pain in the behind and I have to get in the mindset that this snake is obviously NOT going to be like any snake I have had before. She is simply uber picky and likely to miss meals for one reason or another until she is in a routine and older. I also gotta realize that she isn't going to drop and die if she does miss a meal, or even two.

I hope that in the future I can control my stress and panic a lot easier. Please accept this apology and I hope that we can all be on good talking terms despite this.

[Reptile_Reptile]

i am sorry nanna i was harsh and kinda jerk calling you lazy i kinda went into battle mode, and i didnt even think about the fact that your hoggie eats pinkies and im pretty sure they dont have teeth. i was harsh but i seriously recommend trying your hardest to make the switch.

[NennaMeerkat]

You can believe that I am gonna do what it takes to make sure my hoggie is both safe and well fed. Though I cannot say what the future will hold you can bet that no food item will go into that home able to do harm to my snake. Even if I have to pre-kill them moments before giving them to her. I will do what it takes.

And I am glad we can still be on good terms reptile, I think you and Ch^4 were some of the first people to talk to me on here and have always given me great advice. Trust me I take it to heart when you say feeding live is dangerous...I don't just blow it off.

[derekcm87]

I am glad you have figured it out. Thats all that matters. Now you are just that much more knowledgable on the subject and I think its safe to say this little hoggie is going to keep on teaching you things. Thats what its all about :)

[NennaMeerkat]

Lets how so derekc. I have learned something from all the animals I own, reptile or not. Wouldn't want her to be left out :)

[Lankyrob]

No offence taken at all, we all know how stressful it is when one of our babys starts messing us about. I am sure that you will get there and that your hoggie will have a long and enjoyable life with you.

[BoArDwAxStYlE]

tried and true, Dip what ever feeder you are using into some warm chicken stock after thawing and warming feeder..

I havent seen a snake wait more then a few seconds to dive right in..