New Hognose Need Advice

[NennaMeerkat]

My husband bought me a western hognose female snake baby for xmas (isn't he sweet?) and though I have worked with them in the past they were adult and already setup and comfy with their home (a zoo). In the past we also owned 2 corn snakes and they were never any problem from day one.

I have heard that hognoses can be finicky and hard to get them to eat once placed in a new home. Also as a snake owner I have only ever fed live food to my snakes, but I know hognoses don't constrict so I really have no true idea on the whole frozen/thawed area. Everyone says just thaw, heat, and feed.

Well today I tried just that...thawed, heat, and attempted to feed. The snake showed NO interest in the food what so ever. With our corn snakes they ate anything we fed them without any wait time when we first brought them home. For our new hognose it has been almost 2 days since we bought her and I am trying to keep the breeders feeding schedule (which was to feed every monday).

Tried feeding her outside the aquarium in a dark container, just leaving the pinkie in it, she just curled up and didn't move. Tried jiggling the little bugger a little with a pair of tweezers and she seemed afraid of it then. Tried feeding her in her home in the hide box and still just curled up with no interest. Every time I made sure the pinkie was warm.

I know I know I am probably over worrying but I am scared that she won't adapt to her new home and won't eat. Especially considering our 2 corn snakes that we used to own being so easy to feed from the get go.

So please I need some real good advice here.

[totheend]

For our new hognose it has been almost 2 days since we bought her and I am trying to keep the breeders feeding schedule (which was to feed every monday).



You have only had her 2 days? You need to let her settle in and attempt feeding in a week or 2.

[NennaMeerkat]

I guess cornsnakes are drastically different than a hognose when it comes to settling? Cause as I said when we had the two cornsnakes they ate I think the day after we got them just cause that was when the breeder told us to do it to stay on schedule.

How long should I wait then?

[Ch^4]

Every species of snake will have their own caveats in regards to both settling in and feeding. As a general rule of thumb, there should be minimal interaction with the new snake for at least 7 days. Minimal interaction means cleaning and providing fresh water; the hard part is actually interacting using a minimalists' mentality! Try to leave the snake alone, except to check temps/humidity and as I mentioned, for cleaning and giving water. (It will be difficult!)

Activities beyond those explained above could lead to unnecessary stress for the snake, which could in turn lead to a lack of appetite.

After your painfully difficult week away from your new baby, you can attempt to feed. Everyone has different opinions on whether to feed in the cage or in a separate feeding box, so just do what you are more comfortable with. It may be less stressful for the snake if you initially feed in her cage. After she starts eating regularly in the cage, you can start feeding her in a separate enclosure--if you prefer to do so of course! (I feed all of mine outside of their cage, but again, nearly everyone has different opinions on the subject matter.)

If she still doesn't take food for you after the week of isolation, give her another week, with minimal interaction, and try again. Hopefully she will be eating by her next attempt, but if not, feel free to post additional questions! Health wise, she should be okay going without food for a few weeks, but sooner is always better (relieving for the owner that is)!

Good luck!

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks much for that CH^4 (interesting name BTW). I can leave my baby alone but my husband is the one that is acting like a big baby and all pissy when it comes to it. He loves snakes and the such. Such a big kid LOL I am happy enough to just let her get used to the noise and smells of our busy home.

Now my next question(s) would be about feeding the thawed rodent pinkies. I have ALWAYS fed live to my corn snakes (sadly don't have them anymore) without any problems. Nice active hunters they were. But since hognoses aren't constrictors I have to do the thawed route. Never done it and am a bit wary about it since I have to participate in the feeding more than just putting in a few live pinkies. I don't want to scare her or make her not want to eat.

So what is the tried and true method to painlessly feed thawed mice?

[shaunyboy]

its only carpet pythons i work with but as a rule i give them all 1 to 2 weeks to settle in before trying to feed

dont get me wrong some snakes will eat the same day you bring them home as a rule i feel its more productive to let them settle in and feel secure

make sure she has plenty hides etc to help her feel more secure

my mate bred hoggies a while back and if i remember correctly it took a few weeks to get some of the hatchlings feeding on pinky mice

have you asked the person you got it from when it last ate and what type of prey was used ?

i'm sure someone on here with hoggie experience will be able to give you some help

i had a really bad feeding carpet hatchling once after trying everything it was lizards that got her feeding after 10 month

she now eats frozen thawed rats has never missed a feed.

i wish you all the best in getting her to eat

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

My method of feeding frozen thawed mice - i leave them overnight to defrost - then put the glass bowl i use to hold them in onto a hot radiator for about five minutes. When i am ready to actually feed the snake i pick the mouse up by the tail and let the head of the mouse rest on the radiator for about ten seconds or so - this super heats the head and gives a good signature for the snake to strike at. I then dangle the mouse head down in front of the snake and if necessary wiggle it a little.

Just a note tho - i have never tried feeding a hoggy!!

[Ch^4]

Thanks much for that CH^4 (interesting name BTW). I can leave my baby alone but my husband is the one that is acting like a big baby and all pissy when it comes to it. He loves snakes and the such. Such a big kid LOL I am happy enough to just let her get used to the noise and smells of our busy home.

Now my next question(s) would be about feeding the thawed rodent pinkies. I have ALWAYS fed live to my corn snakes (sadly don't have them anymore) without any problems. Nice active hunters they were. But since hognoses aren't constrictors I have to do the thawed route. Never done it and am a bit wary about it since I have to participate in the feeding more than just putting in a few live pinkies. I don't want to scare her or make her not want to eat.

So what is the tried and true method to painlessly feed thawed mice?

Good luck with your husband!

Thanks, my name was created a few months back when I had 4 snakes. All of their names start with the letters "Ch," and being an engineer, it was only natural to do: Ch*Ch*Ch*Ch = Ch^4. Kind of geeky! After X-mas though, my collection will be up to 8, so I'm going to need new names for the babies...I might have to change my name to Ch^8..LOL

I think Shaun and Rob covered F/T food pretty good.

I simply put the frozen prey in a plastic bag, which is then put into a very hot bowl of water. I change the water about every 15 minutes. After 30-60 minutes, depending on the size of the prey, I feel the prey item to make sure it is warm throughout (I squeeze it everywhere--if it's not mostly soft, it might not be thawed completely). If it is, I run it under really hot water for about 30 seconds, remove it from the bag with tongs, and drop it into their feed box.

If they don't find it themselves within about a minute or two, I will pick it up with the tongs and get their attention--they usually strike by then, but it may take some more "zombie dancing." (Essentially teasing the snake by making them think the item is alive).

Hope that helps!

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks to EVERYONE for all the good advice and my worries have really be put down...for now. I am leaving her alone until next monday which would be a week before I try to feed her. Gonna pick up a 3 pack of frozen pinkies Thursday to get ready for the event. I also saved the container the breeder had her in when we first got her...gonna use that to feed her in since it isn't overly large...and another breeder I got in touch with said to put her and the food box in a dark room with no "stimuli" for an hour. If she doesn't eat I will wait another week.

Hopefully this will do it and then I won't come running back here in proverbial tears all worried again.

And CH^4 or CH^8 as you will soon be, you have been most helpful and most delightful to talk with! Look forward to doing it again soon and seeing some pics of your new acquirers.

[NennaMeerkat]

New Question

Should I be worried about the breeder when she seems surprised that our new hognose didn't eat on Monday which would be on schedule with her normal feeding times? I emailed her basically the same thing I wrote here in the forum and she simply replied "She isn't eating?"

[Lankyrob]

Personally none of my snakes have eaten for the first seven days that i have had them home (no hoggies tho), the general view is that some will feed immediately and some will need to settle first. I wouldn't worry yet, give it a week or so to settle in and then try feeding.

[Will0W783]

Nenna, I just thought of something that might help get your little guy eating again. If you own a frog of any kind, rub the f/t pink on the frog before offering it. Frogs and lizards are hoggies' natural diet in the wild, so scenting a pink might perk him up a bit. Once he gets going steadily, you should be able to wean him off the scenteds.

[NennaMeerkat]

Thursday I am thinking of going to a local feed store to get some live pinkies (thinking 2 small instead of 1 large). I was thinking that live might stimulate her more and to eat. True I know a lot of people are against feeding live but since pinkies can't hurt her wouldn't it be good to at least try and get her to eat. Thursday would technically be 6 days that we have had her.

[Will0W783]

Live pinkies are not a problem. They have no teeth and so can't hurt the snake. I am all for doing whatever it takes to get an animal eating, and then worrying about switching food items once it's established and healthy.

[NennaMeerkat]

I have heard of people feeding even their adult hognoses live hoppers. For an adult snake are live hoppers dangerous?

On another note the breeder seems to be frustrated that she hasn't eaten yet and even said to bring her back if she doesn't by next week to see if she can. She even divulged that she hates breeding them because they are such "picky eaters". Honestly is it that hard??

[Will0W783]

Hoppers do have teeth at that point, but they are tiny. However, hognoses are also tiny snakes. My hoggie is terrified of live mice and won't touch them. He gets f/t rat pinks or mouse hoppers.

[Lankyrob]

Once hte prey item has teth and claws it is a threat to the snake - it is bound to attempt to fight back when its is being eaten. Saying that some people feed live all the time with out having issues - not someting i would do tho unlses it was the absolute final option.

[Will0W783]

Hognoses can definitely be picky eaters- but then again a lot of species can. Ball pythons and GTPs are known for being ridiculous to get started sometimes. I have not bred hognoses so I cannot say from personal experience, but I do see a lot of healthy baby hoggies, so I can't imagine it's that hard. Was she eating before she left the breeder? A breeder should not sell a snake that isn't eating steadily, IMO.

[NennaMeerkat]

The breeder said she fed all her babies every monday and that all of her snakes had been fed. So I would assume that she had been feeding normally. If she doesn't end up eating though I guess it is a good thing the breeder is willing to help out and only lives about 20 min. away. But having her feed there and not here...wouldn't that have to be a constant thing? Doubt the breeder is willing to do that LOL

And though I have never done it what about stunning a live prey item before giving it to the snake? I worked for a zoo for several years who had many big and small snakes and we always fed live, not stunned or frozen, to our snakes. Even the two hognose they had would easily eat a full grown mouse (the female they had would sometimes eat up to three) without problem or injury. Even our two cornsnakes would eat live. Interestingly enough one would systematically kill every mouse that we put in the feed bucket before eating any of it. It was kind of cool to see the snake with three mice in its coils.

[Will0W783]

No, it wouldn't be constant. You would probably have to leave the snake there until she is eating steadily again. Driving her back and forth will most likely make her not eat- most snakes take anywhere from a week to a month to settle in to a new environment before they'll eat. I've had a few that ate within days of me getting them, but usually it's a week or two.

[NennaMeerkat]

Well the pet store nearby has pinkies for sale, gonna get my husband to pick them up when he gets off work today. Gonna try and feed her tonight a couple of small live pinkies. If it doesn't work worse comes to worse I freeze them and take them to the breeder so she doesn't have to use her own stock of pinkies to feed her with.

[Ch^4]

Hopefully that works for you. As Kim said, taking your little hoggy to the breeder's house for feeding will likely cause stress and prevent her from eating. My Jungle Carpet Python didn't take food for about 13 days when I first got her, and they are notorious for being garbage disposals. I'd try the live and be patient; it may take a couple weeks. Good luck and keep us posted!

[NennaMeerkat]

Will do Ch^4 I feel I have "dragged" all of you in on this and it would be unfair to not say something!

[Ch^4]

That's why the forum is here! For herp enthusiasts to talk, discuss, and share! Everyone here is willing to lend a helping hand, which makes this site so great!

I'm sure you'll do the same when someone new asks about their baby hoggy who's not eating.

[Will0W783]

Exactly, we are here to help. Don't ever feel bad about asking advice.

[totheend]

Don't try to feed her tonight. The more you try to feed her the more you stress her out and the longer that she is going to take to eat. I also wouldn't try scenting. If she was eating unscented mice, she will eat again don't worry. Once a snake has started eating it will eat. You need to be patient. All snakes are different. I have had a BP eat as soon as I brought it home....I have had a BP wait a month before it ate with me. Really the key is to relax. She will eat but she needs to be left alone for a while. I have hoggies that love to eat and others that I swear only eat enough to stay alive :rolleyes:.

[NennaMeerkat]

Well they ended up not having any live pinkies so I got the the frozen one out that we had before. She doesn't seem as much of a spaz as she has been and even spent the day outside of her hides. Right now she is in the back of the house where it is quiet and dark with the thawed pinkie. If it doesn't work I will just wait until after xmas when the store does have more babies in stock and then try then.

The only reason I wanted to try today was because she was out and about from her hidey holes that we had setup. And not just dashing away or anything like that. I figured it was the first time she is coming out. Worse comes to worse I will just put her back into her home and let her chill...but she honestly didn't look like she just wanted to dash away or freak out when I put in the thawed pinkie.

[NennaMeerkat]

UPDATE:
She didn't eat the thawed pinkie so we are going to wait until our pet store has some live ones to try on her. Probably won't have any until after xmas so that will be plenty of time for her to mellow again if there was any stress in trying to feed. Personally though she didn't seem upset at all. Just curled herself around the dead pinkie (I assume because it was warm) for the entire hour that I left her alone with it. Did not notice any time that she tried to eat it. Have an infrared light that I used the check on her every 15 min.

[Ch^4]

Unlike mammals, snakes do not have a good way to convey that they are stressed; she may appear to be perfectly normal and oblivious of your interaction, but she may actually be really stressed.

Waiting until after Xmas will likely be good for both you and the snake. Just try to provide her with as much solitude as possible and hopefully your next attempt will be successful! Keep us posted and good luck!

[NennaMeerkat]

Big Big Update
Our local home owned pet store finally got in some live pinkies today and called me right before closing for the holidays saying they had held 2 for me. Nice 2 fat ones and very lively. Anyways he suggested, from owning several hognose, to just put both pinkies in the aquarium with her. I had been taking her out. So came back home and found her all out and about curled up outside of her hide. I put a pinkie on either side of her and covered her up with a thick blanket. No stimuli no nothing, just the blanket covering her aquarium and me sitting in the dark quietly watching TV.

45 min. later (after an episode of Bones...great show must watch) I check on her with a red light from a tiny flashlight and to my amazement I don't see either pinkie! Checked all the hiding spots, under the reptile carpet, and I can't find anything! She is under her hide that has the heating pad beneath it and though she doesn't look lumpy I can only assume she ate BOTH of them. She ate BOTH! My poor baby must have been starving to eat both right? So for now I am assuming she has eaten and tomorrow morning I will remove the blanket and check the entire aquarium to make doubly sure. But if she has eaten them I don't want her to regurg...thus waiting until tomorrow to check anything.

KEEP FINGERS CROSSED! Its possible its a freaking xmas miracle!!

[Lankyrob]

Glad she had eaten, probably wasnt starving, with all my snakes once they have taken one prey item they will eat anyhing else that is available (watch out for your fingers!!)

Eating the first one probably just switched on the feed response.

Hope she continues to eat for you, personally i would still not handle her until she has eaten at least another two times so that she is a "regular" feeder before the stress of handling commences.

[NennaMeerkat]

Hope she continues to eat for you, personally i would still not handle her until she has eaten at least another two times so that she is a "regular" feeder before the stress of handling commences.

So I should wait another week or so before handling her? She is getting so jumpy I am a little worried that she might get to shy to be handled at all. That happened to one of our corn snakes. He turned into a striker...where he would strike at anything that comes near the aquarium. Don't want that to happen to her. Maybe handling her just a little two time a week maybe?

[Reptile_Reptile]

she is probably jumpy because you have had her for a very short time and keeps getting food shoved in her face. but dont worry im sure once she has a few good meals in her and she is confident that she is boss in that viv she will be cool and comfortable. btw what is her viv setup like. pics? (i'd wait on the pics till sunday)

[NennaMeerkat]

I dont have a working camera at the moment but its kinda basic right now, slowly building up a comfy home for her. Basically it is a 15 gallon (longer than it is tall) latch down lid aquarium. Inside is the reptile carpet (tan brown in color) lining the bottom with two half log hiding places. On one half of the aquarium is a heating pad underneath where on half log hiding place is and then on the other half is the other half log hiding place that doesn't have the heating pad (a cool and warm side so to speak). Then in the middle towards the back is a water basin type thing big enough for her to soak in and still easily get out.

Since I didn't think hognose snakes were good at climbing I didn't think to get any "branches" or climbing type areas. I have been debating getting a loose type of bedding but considering nothing holds the heat from the pad that is underneath well (from experience with our corn snakes) the carpet seemed like the best choice. I do know that hognoses like to bury but from talking to people in the pet store and the breeder they said there was nothing really wrong with just using the reptile carpet.

Anyways eventually I am thinking of getting a rock that could fit in a corner of the aquarium to lounge on or around as well as a longer log that she could easily hide in without curling up or chill on top of. But basically that is it for now. 2 hiding holes, half the place warm other half cooler and a water basin between. OH! And a low watt heat lamp that I turn on in the morning (around 9am) and turn off in the evening (around 6pm).

[Reptile_Reptile]

a good idea is to get a ceramic heating bulb and just keep it on all the time. because it doesnt actually emit light it wont stress your snake out. and unless you have your reptile room completely sealed from outside light the snakes does not think your heat lamp controls night and day they do know day night from the sun out a window. and i would get a substrate your hognose can tunnel into (their nose is evidence that they naturally burrow also their name because hogs use their noses to dig for roots and such) coconut shavings and reptibark mix is what is usually suggested for that but i just use aspen but as said the reptile carpet would suffice if you wanted it to. either way sounds like the hoggy got a great home with a great caretaker congratulations

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks Reptile Reptile :) After working in a zoo for 5 years (before getting married) I worked with many different snakes. Though what the smaller snakes were kept in over night were basically large Tupperware containers and newspaper. Learned a lot since then about all the "domestic" or more common breeds that people keep to give them a good home if I ever got them.

I know that the snake doesn't really get the true event of daylight and night from the heat lamp but I do keep it on for 8 hours regardless simply since it isn't overly hot this time of year and I wouldn't want her to get to chilled. More of a precaution than a true need. During the summer months I don't even plan to use it. Living here in Texas warrants hot days as you can well imagine.

Does the coconut and such hold the heat of a heating pad well or at least radiate the heat even through a decent layer as to allow burrowing? That is what I am most concerned about overall.

[Reptile_Reptile]

yea the substrate will be heated by the pad and in some cases this is better then geing right on it with only a little glass in between and if it isnt warm enough she can just burrow down and get warmer and it will take in some heat from the bulb. so when she burrows she will be nice and warm and feeling safe cause she is "out of sight" although you can normally still see them

[NennaMeerkat]

I will probably get some substrate once I know she will eat outside of her aquarium. Right now she seems most comfy eating in there and not in a separate place. Wouldn't want any substrate being ingested accidentally ya know? But it will be something I plan on :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

in most cases when feeding in tank that has lose substrate just put a little plate in the tank with the dead mouse on it to avoid the eating of substrate

[NennaMeerkat]

Dually noted. Though for now, to get a good feeding response, we are feeding her live pinkies. Eventually we will hopefully be feeding stunned or frozen/thawed since I know hognoses don't constrict. So yeah. I will remember the plate if we are still feeding her in the main aquarium.

[Lankyrob]

So I should wait another week or so before handling her? She is getting so jumpy I am a little worried that she might get to shy to be handled at all. That happened to one of our corn snakes. He turned into a striker...where he would strike at anything that comes near the aquarium. Don't want that to happen to her. Maybe handling her just a little two time a week maybe?

Personally i would rather have a strikey snake that eats than a calm snake that doesnt but that is a decision for you to make. Your snake your rules.

I also appreciate how difficult it is having a new baby and not holding it!!

Good luck whatever you decide.

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks muchly Lankyrob (love the name btw) I will wait a few days for sure before doing anything with her and when I do handle her it will be within her aquarium and being gentle like. Certainly I will take it easy and work with her slowly, but you are right I would much rather have a stikey snake than a snake that won't eat.

[Ch^4]

Big Big Update
Our local home owned pet store finally got in some live pinkies today and called me right before closing for the holidays saying they had held 2 for me. Nice 2 fat ones and very lively. Anyways he suggested, from owning several hognose, to just put both pinkies in the aquarium with her. I had been taking her out. So came back home and found her all out and about curled up outside of her hide. I put a pinkie on either side of her and covered her up with a thick blanket. No stimuli no nothing, just the blanket covering her aquarium and me sitting in the dark quietly watching TV.

45 min. later (after an episode of Bones...great show must watch) I check on her with a red light from a tiny flashlight and to my amazement I don't see either pinkie! Checked all the hiding spots, under the reptile carpet, and I can't find anything! She is under her hide that has the heating pad beneath it and though she doesn't look lumpy I can only assume she ate BOTH of them. She ate BOTH! My poor baby must have been starving to eat both right? So for now I am assuming she has eaten and tomorrow morning I will remove the blanket and check the entire aquarium to make doubly sure. But if she has eaten them I don't want her to regurg...thus waiting until tomorrow to check anything.

KEEP FINGERS CROSSED! Its possible its a freaking xmas miracle!!

Congratulations, that is great news! As Rob mentioned, try to get her to feed at least one more time before you start your handling regime. It is going to be extremely difficult, but well worth the wait! My baby JCP, as with others, was very defensive, but I still gave her some stress-free time before the training began. I am now happy to say that after 2 months of "training," she is becoming very tolerable to handling and rarely bites! Good luck and keep us updated!

[NennaMeerkat]

Thanks as always Ch^4 :)