Trouble Switching to Rats

[TylerWortman]

I have a young JCP. She is big enough to eat rats and I've tried scenting the rat with mice bedding but I have been unable to get her to eat. I have tried live rats and she just bites in defense and will not constrict the rat. Its been about 2 weeks since she's eaten. Should I wait longer and try and feed her another rat? What should I do?

[dragunov.762]

i would wait. she will eventually get hungry enough to eat a rat. if in 2 months or so she hasn't i would offer a large mouse.

[marvelfreak]

i would wait. she will eventually get hungry enough to eat a rat. if in 2 months or so she hasn't i would offer a large mouse.
^He said it all.

[Nafun]

This is why I never gave my JCP mice. I was warned they were notoriously hard to switch to rats if they get used to mice.

Gruesome as it sounds, you can try scenting the rat with blood or brains from a dead mouse.

You don't say how you are scenting. The most effective way in my experience is to scent the rat by rubbing it in soiled mouse bedding (make sure no wood shavings are stuck to the fur). May sound gross to have the rat smeared with mouse poo and wee, but that's basically what a mouse smells like. Anyone who has bred them will tell you, they smell like a port-a-potty one day after cleaning.

[TylerWortman]

I've tried scenting the rat with mice bedding but I have been unable to get her to eat.?

I've tried just bedding but not "soiled" I don't know if you mean to say spoiled but I'ill try that next. Then I'll resort to the brains and goo and blood and ew next try. The next plan is to just be patient and wait until she gets hungry enough to give a rat a taste.

I am still worried that all this might fail.

Any other ideas?

[Freebody]

i have a carpet python im converting atm, i waited over a month then rubbed a dead mouse all over my pinky rat and he took it, every week i rub less and less, he still will not take the rat unless i rub it but it to the point now where im hardly scenting it at all, i try to feed a scented one first then a unscented one after. it a good idea to do it like that, smaller pray so you can feed more than one, until hes switched, oh yeah try to take some soap and water and really clean the rat first and risce realy well. a very good breeder i know has done this for years, i tried and it worked for me as well. GL bro :)

[TylerWortman]

Thanks Freebody. That's some really good info!

[Xanafein]

I had a horrible time getting my 5 month old switched from mice to rats, she takes them now with about an 80% or so success rate, i let the rats live in some nasty mouse bedding the local pet store gives me then clean off the rat, removing any woodchips ect. and she chomps right on em,once I have her taking them all the time I will start working her to F/t

[Nafun]

Soiled as in dirty, in need of cleaning. Soaked with urine and containing lots of crap.

We clean the mouse racks once or twice a week, so when it's cleaning day, I grab the rat, and rub it on the bedding.

[Reptile_Reptile]

nafun is ur sig a reality for you? and yea they got it all thats how itss done

[Nafun]

It was, I'm not sure if it still is. Three of my turtle hatchlings died from a respiratory infection, and I lost my milk snake to a drug resistant pancreatic infection.

I have..

Dodge - Adult Male Ball Python
Bocce - Adult Male Ball Python
Mr. Slithers - Sub Adult Female Ball Python
Snuggles - Yearling Ball Python
Berber - Sub Adult Female Jungle Carpet Python
Julius - Sunglow Corn Snake
Fire - Young high red Flame Eastern Garter Snake
Sunset - Young flame eastern garter snake.
Cuddles - Sub Adult Columbian Rainbow Boa
Iggy - Sub Adult Green Iguana
Yoshi - Adult Chinese Water Dragon
Nosh - Sub Adult Bearded Dragon
Lord Rufus Penceworth Figglebottom III, of the Lancaster Figglebottoms - Young Argentine Black & White Tegu
Yertle - Male Southern Painted Turtle hatchling
Raphael - Female Southern Painted Turtle hatchling

RIP: Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo Painted turtle hatchlings.
RIP: Jonas - Pueblan Milk Snake (Drug resistant pancreatic/intestinal infection)

MIA: Houdini - Desert Phase California Kingsnake. He lived up to his namesake. My wife hasn't given up hope, but I think he's gone for good.

[shaunyboy]

i would wait. she will eventually get hungry enough to eat a rat. if in 2 months or so she hasn't i would offer a large mouse.

dont want a fight but the above is not the way to go


it would only defeat the purpose as

all you would be doing is putting it right back to mice

perciverance is whats required

is it a rat pup your offering ?

was the jungle eating frozen thawed mice or live ?

if it was eating f/t mice then

dont go live !!!

scent the pup with a mouse

heat and burst a mouse and smear blood and guts all over the rat pup

imo its a taste thing

mice taste better than rats

it could be because a rat is a new type of food source so smells different to the mouse

either way you need to scent the rat

once he starts eating scented then every second feed reduce the amount of mouse blood and guts you use to scent

always give the rat an extra heat after scenting

this is why NONE of my hatchlings get offered anything but rats

the older they get the harder it can be to change them onto rats

2 weeks is not a long time to go without food

ive had hatchlings not eat until they were 10 months old with no ill effect

by putting in a live rat your programing the jungle to see rats as a danger,this will only make your job harder in the long run

the above is just my way of doind and my humble opinion

cheers shaun

[TylerWortman]

She is currently eating live mice and I tried a live rat about the size of my thumb. I'd like to just switch without having to smear blood and guts and all but I don't see that happening. What's the best way to get mice blood and all?

[Nafun]

Get a live mouse. Grip it by the tail and swing it overarm toward a table so that its head hits the edge of the table. It will break its neck and send it into convulsions killing it almost instantly. Or you can gas them. CO2 works best. I use a whipped cream canister. CO2 cartridges for seltzer bottles fit inside. Put rodent in bag, stick nozzle in bag. Fill bag with co2 and seal. Dead rodent in about 30 seconds. (this is expensive to do 1 rodent at a time... I use this method to kill multiple litters of pinks for freezing).

To get blood, just cut open the freshly dead mouse with a sharp knife and smear. It will be gruesome. If you get nauseated, smile. Smiling suppresses the gag reflex. To get brain... this is really really gruesome. You can either cut into the skull with a sharp knife (this can be difficult), or you can crush the skull, then slice open the head to get to brains.

Just don't forget to kill the poor thing first.


Also, you could get lucky. About half the time I prekill by whacking' em against a table they start bleeding profusely out the nose.

[Swan]

Try killing the rat and put it in front of your snake. This is how I got mine to switch. NOT f/t. Live rat crack em on the table and put them both in there feeding box. Sorry guys I know most of you use f/t, but my snakes all of em eat live. There's no f/t rats in nature. A lot of people say they will get hurt. None of my snakes have ever had a problem with bite marks or scars.

[red ink]

No 4 x 2 x 2 cages powered by electricity out there in nature either

[Lankyrob]

Try killing the rat and put it in front of your snake. This is how I got mine to switch. NOT f/t. Live rat crack em on the table and put them both in there feeding box. Sorry guys I know most of you use f/t, but my snakes all of em eat live. There's no f/t rats in nature. A lot of people say they will get hurt. None of my snakes have ever had a problem with bite marks or scars.

Innature they wouldnt get fed on a regular basis either, and also any prey has a chance for fight or flight, in a viv there only chance is fight or die. Wild snakes live a lot shorter lives for a number of reasons, preyfighting back is one of these.

[Jay]

Try killing the rat and put it in front of your snake. This is how I got mine to switch. NOT f/t. Live rat crack em on the table and put them both in there feeding box. Sorry guys I know most of you use f/t, but my snakes all of em eat live. There's no f/t rats in nature. A lot of people say they will get hurt. None of my snakes have ever had a problem with bite marks or scars.
i dont understand.\ this is my opinion but you need to undrstand your reptiles are not living in the wild anymore>? so your argument makes no sense ?please explain ? there are no tanks or heatmats, lightbulbs, water bowls ect. in nature

[Damion930]

What if u skin a mouse and made a little mouse vest for a rat to wear lol glad i haven had any problems feeding my retic Enki i think he would eat just about anything i put in front of him

[Reptile_Reptile]

wtf???? for real ^^^^ seriously

[Swan]

I understand that my snakes don't live in the wild, but they still carry the born instinct to kill there own prey. In the wild if they wanted to bask they would find a heat soure via rock warm sand. If they wanted to cool down they would hide or soak in water. I have had no luck with f/t. I have tried because it would be much cheaper and easier. My snakes, if it's not moving on it's own they won't even look at it. I was mearly suggesting that maybe some snakes with stronger wild instincts may prefer live food. Unless one of you has a magic trick to get my snakes to switch I'm stuck with live feeding.

[shaunyboy]

She is currently eating live mice and I tried a live rat about the size of my thumb. I'd like to just switch without having to smear blood and guts and all but I don't see that happening. What's the best way to get mice blood and all?


its frozen i use so i defrost burst mouse open and smear the blood and guts over the rat

if your using live then kill mouse burst open and smear with blood and guts

not nice but very effective

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Try killing the rat and put it in front of your snake. This is how I got mine to switch. NOT f/t. Live rat crack em on the table and put them both in there feeding box. Sorry guys I know most of you use f/t, but my snakes all of em eat live. There's no f/t rats in nature. A lot of people say they will get hurt. None of my snakes have ever had a problem with bite marks or scars.


your no frozen rats in nature is a very flawed arguement mate

there are no ceramics or heat mats either

we are not keeping our snakes in wild conditions so imo its wrong to use that logic

if you preffer live feeds then i have no problem with that

i dont know what you keep but i know if i was feeding a small to large rat to mine i'd be very wary of a rat biting the snake

there are plenty recorded cases of rats causing major damage to snakes in captivity

imo its much safer using frozen thawed

cheers shauns

[Nafun]

your no frozen rats in nature is a very flawed arguement mate

there are no ceramics or heat mats either

we are not keeping our snakes in wild conditions so imo its wrong to use that logic

if you preffer live feeds then i have no problem with that

i dont know what you keep but i know if i was feeding a small to large rat to mine i'd be very wary of a rat biting the snake

there are plenty recorded cases of rats causing major damage to snakes in captivity

imo its much safer using frozen thawed

cheers shauns


I've got snakes that will only take live, and while they've had some close calls. Some rats get very very aggressive when confronted with a predator. I've had to stick my hand in and take one for the team more than once to protect a snake.

I feed freshly killed prey almost exclusively because I breed my own mice, gerbils, rats, and rabbits. It's cheaper than buying frozen, and it has one major advantage I've found. When I was feeding frozen/thawed, I would check the cages on sundays, and pull a rodent to thaw for anyone not in shed. Monday was feeding day, and with a dozen or so snakes, I ended up throwing way about 2 rodents per week from refused feeds. By killing the rodents as I need them, if a snake refuses its meal, that rodent can go to the next in line. I can save my most voracious feeders for last so that I almost never throw a rodent away. I think a lot of people shy away from pre killing because it's gruesome, or makes them feel more guilty than letting the snake do the killing or by buying prekilled, but anything that reduces the number of animals that have to die to fuel your hobby reduces the amount of blood on your hands, metaphorically speaking.

All things being equal on the whole "natural" thing, animals are generally simple creatures. They want three things, safety from predators, a source of food (the easier to obtain the better!), and someone to, er, love.

Yes, UTHs, ceramic heaters, frozen/thawed rats, and plastic hides are unnatural. However, dying from cold snaps, starving to death, and getting eaten by anything bigger than it *is* natural. In my experience, animals don't really care about whether things are natural, only if they fit their needs. As evidenced by the rabbits I chase out of my garden, the toads I chase out of my garage, etc.

[shaunyboy]

personally i have NO PROBLEM with people feeding live

i also understand some snakes will not take frozen thawed

like my friends black headed python.it will not eat deformed or weak hatchlings if you kill them first

it will only take them alive

if i come across like i was moaning,being bitchy,arguementative or against live feeding that was not my intention

i did however get out the wrong side of the bed this morning (he says hoping you understand this old english saying)

i have used live feeds in the past to get non eating hatchlings up and running

im glad all mine take frozen thawed as im not really into keeping fluffy animals alive.i preffer to buy them dead,throw them in the freezer and be done with it.

ive even sewed chicks heads onto rats body's.

that took a bit of explaining when my wife looked into our kitchen:yes:

cheers shaun

[Swan]

Dang shuan that's hard core brother! I was simply stating that we create our tanks to mimic there natural enviroment. Simply building a box would not be enough. The ceramics and light and uth are all to simulate there natural Eco system. All artificials are to stimulate your snake like there natural enviroment would. If I'm wrong please correct me.

[percey39]

I have found in past experiences that the easiest way to get most carpets to switch is by scenting with quail. Another way that works is to get hold of just some chick, quail or even budgie feathers and stick these in the food items mouth. Never had one refuse a bird scented/feather in mouth prey item.

[shaunyboy]

wtf???? for real ^^^^ seriously


as gross as it sounds.....

ive sewn chick heads onto rats body's to get adults switched over to rats for a friend

the things we do for our snakes:shocked: :yes:

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Dang shuan that's hard core brother! I was simply stating that we create our tanks to mimic there natural enviroment. Simply building a box would not be enough. The ceramics and light and uth are all to simulate there natural Eco system. All artificials are to stimulate your snake like there natural enviroment would. If I'm wrong please correct me.


my apologys if ive come across a bit abrupt in any of my posts to you mate

that was never my intention and i should not have jumped on your post like that

im really sorry if i caused any offence mate

all the best shaun

[Swan]

Oh no offense shuan. I'm a construction worker, It takes a lot for me to get offended. No problems. I like hearing everyones views and experience. By all means if I'm wrong about something please correct me. I was just trying to imagine the wifey walking in on sewing a chicken head to a rat! Oh that would be priceless. Haha!

[Freebody]

Oh no offense shuan. I'm a construction worker, It takes a lot for me to get offended. No problems. I like hearing everyones views and experience. By all means if I'm wrong about something please correct me. I was just trying to imagine the wifey walking in on sewing a chicken head to a rat! Oh that would be priceless. Haha!
at this points i bet she just walked into the room, looked, shook her head, and walked out thinking, I'll talk to him about it later during bed time LOL << was i right? LOL priceless indeed lol

[shaunyboy]

at this points i bet she just walked into the room, looked, shook her head, and walked out thinking, I'll talk to him about it later during bed time LOL << was i right? LOL priceless indeed lol


her exact words were.....

you better not be using my sewing kit

what the hell are you doing

in fact i dont want to know

after 28 years together i thought id seen it all.....

then walks away shaking her head:no:

in my defence,they do say change spices up a marraige:yes:

cheers shaun

[Freebody]

LOL classic, your wife sounds like a real cool chick :)

[presspirate]

her exact words were.....

you better not be using my sewing kit

what the hell are you doing

in fact i dont want to know

after 28 years together i thought id seen it all.....

then walks away shaking her head:no:

in my defence,they do say change spices up a marraige:yes:

cheers shaun

Priceless...... I hope the thread was disolveable.:yes:

[belovedboas]

I'm still stuck on the chicken head sewing thing hahahahhaha that made me luagh like hell lol but I would do it lol:):)

[Aaron_S]

You could also try feeding a mouse, a smaller than normal prey item then chasing it with a rat. A f/t rat. Just before the snake finishes swallowing the mouse you can put the rat right into it's open mouth. Most snakes will just keep swallowing.

[infernalis]

as gross as it sounds.....

ive sewn chick heads onto rats body's to get adults switched over to rats for a friend

cheers shaun

LqaWjIbr_WA

[TylerWortman]

AHHHHHH so close. Today I tried feeding a small rat and Sydney struck and constricted for a couple seconds and then let the rat go.

WHAT DO I DOOOOOO?

[Reptile_Reptile]

just persevere man you know what you have to do its all just a matter of repeating the steps till it takes. its like potty training no kid wants to use the toilet they think i can just use this diaper thing that people change for me, but eventually the parent gets them so used to it they want to go to the bathroom and it becomes habit, same thing with snakes just got to get them into the habit of goin after the rat and eventually they will just eat it.