Thamnophis tetrataenia - sad situation (graphic pics)

[infernalis]

We really never had much of a discussion on this, but I just had a member of another forum post these today and it really thrust it in my face how bad the situation is.

The rarest reptile alive is a species of garter snake that is so close to extinction that it's future is very grim, and the US government combined with the state of California are compounding the situation making it worse.

San Francisco Garter Snake (Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia) is marked as an endangered species making it a felony to gather, breed export or otherwise, any specimens to perpetuate the species at least in captivity.

the city was built on the only habitat on the planet and only a small parcel of land reserved for them to occupy.

Some years ago a single pair was shipped zoo to zoo from the US to Holland and the European specimens have been bred and dispersed all over Europe.

Today the animals on display at the San Francisco zoo originated from the European gene pool:eek:

The genes are weakening with every litter produced as no fresh blood has been allowed for a very long time. all animals in captive collections originated from this same pair of snakes.

both of these were from the same clutch of snakes and should give you a decent idea of this species future if the government does not make some changes and at least allow private individuals to keep this species alive.

And the habitat is constantly threatened by runoff and pollution.

Special thanks to Fons of kousebandslangen.nl for providing these shocking photos.

http://www.kousebandslangen.nl/twoheads1.jpg

http://www.kousebandslangen.nl/dead1.jpg

[marvelfreak]

:mad::no::mad::no::mad::no::mad::no:

[presspirate]

Just another reason to "Love" Big government.....

[infernalis]

If they would allow even a few specimens to be used for a breeding program, and allow them in US collections, the species can carry on even after the habitat is lost forever.

Pretty bad when the animals at the San Fran zoo have to be brought in from Europe using this same (nearly exhausted) set of genes.

The next closest thing is the Thamnophis Infernalis (California garter snake) and one of the reasons why I am so captivated by them.

If I had to clear out my collection and only keep one species, it would be my Infernalis'

[percey39]

This is where everything can and will go wrong with limited pairs, and when government agencies know this its only even more sickening. We are in the same vote here with oenpelli python, except we had a respected breeder successfully breed these guy's in captivity many years ago only to have our government take the whole lot off him. These snakes are found in arnham land which is sacred aboriginal land, they cannot be taken with out a permit and the permits are near on possible to get. They are now near extinction from what "studies" that have been allowed to be conducted have said. With the cane toad also making its way into those areas there will be many of these lost. I just hope we dont find ourselves dont the road with an extinct native species that is only found in our/your country being seen ONLY in collections in foreign countries.

[infernalis]

Not sure about Australia but I could all but guarantee that if they had fur and legs, Or fins and blow holes, there would be huge public outcries over it here.

But who cares about lowly snakes?? only a small handful.

[percey39]

Its the same here and i find it quite disgusting that people could not care less about snakes. Dont get me wrong there is political people that do care but their thoughts are overshadowed by claims of kaola's, wombat's, kangaroo's and many of the other of our native furry ones. I could gaurantee that if any of these animals were in dire straights as is the oenpelli python things would be done immediately. Im sure it would be no different over there especially after all controversy in Florida, things will only be misconcieved even more so.
I truely hope that one day the herp community will be listened to and some one some where will care enough to deal with the global issue's that are becoming ever more so apparent as each day passes!!

[Lankyrob]

What most politicians dont seem to realise is that by wiping out one species, or allowing it to become extinct, it doesnt just affect that species but the whole ecosystem of the area. The snakes prey will probably double, or more, in their number and anything that has that snake as it staple diet could also die out, thus unbalancing the ecosystem even further.

EVERY organism from the lowliest parasite to the mightiest predator needs to be kept as "natural" as possible to ensure the future of the planet. Thinking about one species only is very blinkered.

[infernalis]

Oh I couldn't agree more.

Problem is Rob with this particular species, the primary diet is amphibians and fish.

So along with habitat loss, industrial runoff, smog and acid rain are wiping out the snakes' food source, and the prey that does survive is contaminated food.

I certainly would not dip a glass into the streams of San Francisco to get a drink.

The things mankind have done and continues to do to mother nature are appaling at best.

[Lankyrob]

And the weird thing is if another species was doing what we are doing we would step in and attempt to curtail that species' effect on the planet!!

[presspirate]

:angry:I can't even discuss things like this without getting angry.....The government, and people in general.....I get sick just going fishing and seeing peoples garbage floating in the water....The government takes our tax dollars and does what with them? Builds more government. I need to buy an island somewhere..... :angry:

[Lankyrob]

Can i come live with you pirate?

[presspirate]

Absolutely we'll call it Herp Island!

[Lankyrob]

Woohoo!!!! :) :) :)

[Will0W783]

Count me in, too!

[infernalis]

as long as I can grab up a slew of frog and fish eggs and a few pairs of those gorgeous San Frans, You can count me in too.

http://brentplater.org/BigYear/Images/6.jpg

Can you believe that there is a golf course located on their habitat, that makes my frakkin blood boil, I can't keep a pair, but golfers can run them over with carts!!!!!

where is the friggin logic to that??

PlToWqpsXbM

[presspirate]

Cool, we are a nation of four plus spouses, significant others, pets, etc. etc. Now we need a flag...And Wayne, no prob. Before you come out to the Island, swing by San Francisco and do a little "Golfing":yes:

[Xanafein]

i live in cali, if i ever see these garters they will be caught and raised carefully, i refuse to let such a beautiful snake go down in flames

[infernalis]

Just don't get caught with them, It's a felony to even catch them.

[Xanafein]

oh i wont, i have a buddy in canada who is hooked on garters, he would love to get his hands on some, before i even begin to try, ill make sure he has a set up up there, and is willing to take em, then ill start figureing out how to get the little guys to canada, best case i pass em off as another species at the border, if that doesnt work i could be in trouble ;) almost makes me wanna divert the blue beauty viv im making into a garter one, but id rather not keep em unless neccasary

[infernalis]

Trust me I have had to resist booking a flight to san fran myself, although I do seriously consider a on site photo session one day.

[Freebody]

all garters are banned here in BC canada. :(

[Deej85]

Yup, all native species are considered property of the government and require a permit to be kept.



I think in order to have a garter snake, it needs to be one that is not native to Canada.

[Freebody]

I was reading the list and its got all species of garters on it, even non native species, im not sure if you can apply for a permit to get one of the non native ones. to bad because so many garters are so beautifull, and im really likeing how active they are, and they eat worms and grubs lol thats too cool.