Finally got him to eat!

[ChloeTrahan82]

So tonight the fiancee and i took the snake babies to Petsmart to look at new accessories to buy them and the kitties, and i was going to get some pinkies to try and feed booger, my baby ball python. I thought i noticed him lately getting a little sluggish and wrinkly but didnt think too much about it cause when i hold him hes usually pretty active and curious and wanted to explore. It wasnt until i got to petsmart my friend met him and was like hes adorable but hes getting a little thin. which at that point i knew i had to do something cause i tried EVERYTHING but force feed. the other night a friend of mine came over and actually taught me how to force feed him in case this was to happen but the pinkies that i was told were pinky mice we infact pinky rats so the 12 i bought for him werent the right size but my baby boa loves them.

After i got them some moss to help with the humidity and a box of pinkies (which are effing 10 bucks for a small box of 6) i came home and SUCCESSFULLY fed Booger!. Sadly since he still wasnt taking it even after leaving him in a container with the pinky over night i knew i had to. i force fed it which he actually took it fine and quick. everything went perfectly, he didnt bite he even came into my hand after he fed and i put him back in his cage and hes taking a nap. Im so excited. I dont know if i should keep doing this till he start feeding on his own or do i try leaving it or keep force feeding him?.

[marvelfreak]

Congrats! I would see if you can get him to eat on his own first, now that he has ate something.

[kenchenzo]

my baby royals are eating small mice pretty much from the start they won't eat a pinkie at all. have you tried something with fur on it.
i have had this.
they can be very strange eaters.

[ChloeTrahan82]

Yea i tried a fuzzy but he just wasnt responding. ill try feeding him naturally next time. hes got sooooo much energy now.

[kenchenzo]

just keep on trying. Good luck.
I would feed him again 4 or 5 days after his last feed see if he has a bigger intrest there. Worked on one of mine.

[Reptile_Reptile]

mine had that problem too but i just kinda poked the pinkie around with the feeding forceps and voila he devoured that sucker from then on he has been a great eater

[kenchenzo]

it is just getting them to start once they start they don't norm stop.

[Reptile_Reptile]

yea its all NOM NOM NOM from there

[percey39]

I have had young snakes that have had to be force fed up until nearly 7 months of age and then had to be assist fed ( put the head on the prey in the mouth ) for a further 4 months before finally eating on their own. Its a very stressful situaton to be in and you have to think that in the wild these are ones that would certainly die. Also be careful when force feeding as i have heard horror stories of people pushing a little too hard and their tongs slipping and piercing the sides of the snake.
I hope he takes off and eats on his own from now on.

[ChloeTrahan82]

I have had young snakes that have had to be force fed up until nearly 7 months of age and then had to be assist fed ( put the head on the prey in the mouth ) for a further 4 months before finally eating on their own. Its a very stressful situaton to be in and you have to think that in the wild these are ones that would certainly die. Also be careful when force feeding as i have heard horror stories of people pushing a little too hard and their tongs slipping and piercing the sides of the snake.
I hope he takes off and eats on his own from now on.


yea thats actually what iw as scared of using something to push it in, so i just used my finger, he caught me on the side of my finger but it wasnt bad and i know he didnt mean it. i will tell you though he has SOOOO much energy now. i hope he dousnt get that way were i have to feed him constantly. ill try the poking the pinky thing too see if that stimulates him. he was getting so skinny too. im glad i nabbed him up and he wasnt tossed aside or ignored for not wanting to eat. i shall keep you posted :-)

[gonesnakee]

FF should be an absolute LAST RESORT to save the life of a dying snake.
Pinkies are not appropriate for a baby BP either mice or rats, mice should never even be offered except as a last resort anyhow, you wnat it on rats from day one.
Baby BPs fresh out of the egg are able to take small fuzzy rats & thats the prey of choice from day one.
The reason why folks have issues feeding is HUSBANDRY & METHOD 99.99% of the time NOT the snake.
baby BP should be housed in a small shoebox RM in a low traffic area, ZERO handling until feeding well on its own.
Keep it on papetowel with a couple small hides (TP rolls work well) & a small delicup water dish. Keep it at approx 85-95F.
Only attempt to feed it once weekly & do so IN ITS HOUSE (moving it around to feed etc. just stresses it out & defeats the purpose) offer it prey at night & ensure it is at least 100F & offer it with a quick tease feed & then leave it there & leave the room.
FF is EXTREMELY stressful on the snake & can be fatal as well if not done right, one should never use anyhting but their bare hands & the prey item IF it ever really has to be FF.
More oftn than not a FF will turn the snake off of prey even longer as it sees the prey item as a source of discomfort & stress not food, same hing happens whne they arer continually pestered with prey instead of only once weekly.
Snakes will almost ALWAYS eat on their own IF the husbandry is correct & IF the prey is offered correctly.
In your case I would try live p rats or small fuzzy ones if they are available to you.
So the snake had never fed prior you obtaining it then?
if not it should not have been sold & if so the same prey it was on should be the prey offered until feeding well & then try switching over to prey of choice (FT rats) if its not on them already.
I see WAY too many posts of folks offering advice when the first thing that should ever be considered with ANY problem is husbandry as 99.99% of the itme that is the issue & then the next thing maybe is the way prey is offered & the frequency of attempts.
Mark
P.S. 2010 Diamond Python here now that has not ate yet for over 4 months & I have not even remotely considered FF at this point. Snakes, even babies can go a very long time without food as long as they are properly hydrated. Quite often babies of certain species are known not to take ANYTHING for 3-4 months & then just start right up on their own & feed well from that point onward.
A baby snake has done nothing BUT feed its entire life prior exiting the egg & can live on their yolk guts for months prior feeding on anything else even goig to a secod shed from growth off of it. I have expereinced this with many snakes over the last decade & lose very few if any. if they don't feed on their own despite perfect husbandry they are not meant to be.

[percey39]

Mark i know you are not a having a go at me personally and i do agree force feeding is absolutely the last option. It also is necessary in my eye's as i find it incredibly cruel to let a snake starve to death! I would not let a family member or friends starve to death and do nothing my self, so why should it be different for animals that i love.
Also i cant use my hands when feeding the species i have had trouble with in the past as it is far to risky to put fingers near fangs lol.

[shaunyboy]

I have had young snakes that have had to be force fed up until nearly 7 months of age and then had to be assist fed ( put the head on the prey in the mouth ) for a further 4 months before finally eating on their own. Its a very stressful situaton to be in and you have to think that in the wild these are ones that would certainly die. Also be careful when force feeding as i have heard horror stories of people pushing a little too hard and their tongs slipping and piercing the sides of the snake.
I hope he takes off and eats on his own from now on.


ive had carpet hatchlings not eat until the age of 10 months so force feeding should always be a very very very last option.

assist feeds like percy suggested is a much better thing to do as a last resort.

what methods have you tried before going down the force feed road mate ??????

im not giving you a hard time i just feel very passionate about never force feeding a snake until at least 5 to 8 month of trying everything else has failed and its in danger of dieing.

i hope he takes it himself next time you try mate

i only read rthe first few posts on this thread.now i have seen mark gonesnakee has covered it very well

teach me to read a whole thread before i post.

its just i feel very strongly against force feeding.to be honest id tube feed a dying snake until it was up to a healthy wieght then commence trying to get it feeding on its own.

cheers shaun

[gonesnakee]

Mark i know you are not a having a go at me personally and i do agree force feeding is absolutely the last option. It also is necessary in my eye's as i find it incredibly cruel to let a snake starve to death! I would not let a family member or friends starve to death and do nothing my self, so why should it be different for animals that i love.
Also i cant use my hands when feeding the species i have had trouble with in the past as it is far to risky to put fingers near fangs lol.

I'm fairly confident in your abilities, well I hope so anyway if they have fangs LOL
Yes more of a general post aimed at those that do not know better.
Way too many times have I heard of snakes being FF at 4-8 weeks because they are refusing meals & most all of those times it was directly husbandry related as well.
Lots of folks suggesting FF without even asking about husbandry first.
Which as I stated is the issue more often than not in any snake related problem.
There are species that can & will go much longer than others too of course so it pays to know what you are working with & to be aware of when intravention is required as it is in some cases.
Rather than let them starve if it comes to that the Kingsnakes will always eat ;) Cheers Mark

[Reptile_Reptile]

waaaait so i should be feeding my bp rats instead of mice? and what about my corn is a jumbo mouse ok or should i go rat?

[gonesnakee]

waaaait so i should be feeding my bp rats instead of mice? and what about my corn is a jumbo mouse ok or should i go rat?

Corns are fine on mice, even the biggest Corn 2-3 large adult mice will suffice for a feed. Some will not even take rats, other go back & forth no issues.
A bigger BP on the other hand can take anywhere from half dozen to a dozen mice at a sitting Vs a couple rats.
Costs more both time & effort wise to feed mice & some state concerns over the fat content in say a 1/2 dozen mice Vs a rat which could be debatable?
Personally I don't think there is a huge issue other than it more time & money & more "lives" as well too I guess could be a concern?
Some snakes are hesitant to take multiple prey items too so if a BP will only take one or two items mice may not cut it when it gets larger if thats the case. Cheers Mark

[percey39]

I fully understand what both Mark and Shaun have said and agree totally. I myself have had to force feed young adders and tigers one or two meals before they would accept assist feeds. All of these guy's were purchased as non feeders.
I tried many different things for the tigers. I tried tadpoles, feeder fish, skinks, quail fetus and quail embryo smeared on all the above. Non of these young guys would eat on their own to start and eventually after a few months i started to force feed. All of these tiger died around 3 months apart. All had tumors of some kind ( all in differents areas of the body ), which has led me to believe that this may have been a key factor in why they did not feed originally.

[shaunyboy]

I fully understand what both Mark and Shaun have said and agree totally. I myself have had to force feed young adders and tigers one or two meals before they would accept assist feeds. All of these guy's were purchased as non feeders.
I tried many different things for the tigers. I tried tadpoles, feeder fish, skinks, quail fetus and quail embryo smeared on all the above. Non of these young guys would eat on their own to start and eventually after a few months i started to force feed. All of these tiger died around 3 months apart. All had tumors of some kind ( all in differents areas of the body ), which has led me to believe that this may have been a key factor in why they did not feed originally.


i know you would have exhausted all other methods before you went down the force feeding route mate

imo your a brave man doing it with hots my friend

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

waaaait so i should be feeding my bp rats instead of mice? and what about my corn is a jumbo mouse ok or should i go rat?


the reason for getting bigger snakes onto rats as soon as possible is nothing more than the physical size of the food item.

take carpet pythons for instance

one medium or large rat would do great as a meal at feed time

if it were on jumbo mice then it might take 5 to 10 mice to satisfy said carpet

this is why you will hear folk who work with bigger snakes reccomending this to you mate

cheers shaun

[percey39]

i know you would have exhausted all other methods before you went down the force feeding route mate

imo your a brave man doing it with hots my friend

cheers shaun

They were a head ache, but were some of my favourite snakes. I was really enjoying the colour change in them. From what i have been told by the breeder there were many tigers lost out of this lot.
Not brave mate, crazy some say lol but they are not to difficult once you pin and hold them from behind the head.

[ChloeTrahan82]

concidering my BP was limp when i would pick him up the day before i fed him. he wouldnt even take water even if i dipped his head in his dish which he usually takes to when i do it. he started looking flat and my fiancee actually thought he was dead until he moved when he picked him up. i tried laying him in a box with a waterdish and a pinky for two days. i even went to petsmart and they let me have a small bag of bedding from the mice cages to try and stimulate him with the scent but he wasnt eating. he was barely moving the day before i fed him and he looking thinner and thinner. it was either force feed or let him die,.i feel like $#!^ for doing it but i didnt know if i was going to let him go another day and find him dead or force feed and let him live.

[percey39]

I completely understand as its very stressful if you have had a snake for a fair period of time and they have not eaten for you yet. The guy's are only trying to point out that its unnecessary for very young snakes as they can survive long periods with out food still and force feeding is a last resort. Have you tried assist feeding yet, as most snakes happily eat once you have gently put the head in their mouth.

[ChloeTrahan82]

yea thats how i started it out all i do is rub the head in between his lips till he opens his mouth then i get it about down to the neck/shoulderblades and he takes it fine. a friend showed me how to do it by shoving a rod down to the corners of his mouth to open his jaws and shoving the mouse down his throat but i just couldnt see myself doing that but hes been responding to just slightly opening his mouth with the mouse and just sliding the head in. he dousnt even put up a fight which i thought was awsome just kind of sits there with it in his mouth then starts swallowing. . . i thought it was going to be much worst like iw as going to have to hold him down and just shove it down but hes responding well to just putting the head in his mouth.

[percey39]

Thats ok, so you have been assist feeding not force feeding. I hope he takes them on his own soon for you.

[shaunyboy]

concidering my BP was limp when i would pick him up the day before i fed him. he wouldnt even take water even if i dipped his head in his dish which he usually takes to when i do it. he started looking flat and my fiancee actually thought he was dead until he moved when he picked him up. i tried laying him in a box with a waterdish and a pinky for two days. i even went to petsmart and they let me have a small bag of bedding from the mice cages to try and stimulate him with the scent but he wasnt eating. he was barely moving the day before i fed him and he looking thinner and thinner. it was either force feed or let him die,.i feel like $#!^ for doing it but i didnt know if i was going to let him go another day and find him dead or force feed and let him live.


imo you should'nt be dipping his head in a water dish to get him to drink.this will stress your snake out

imo its most likely down to stress that hes not eating

have you got any pictures of your snake ??

honestly you'd be surprized how long they can go without food for.

ive had carpet hatchlings that did not eat until they were 10 months old.

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

[quote=ChloeTrahan82;574197]So tonight the fiancee and i took the snake babies to Petsmart to look at new accessories to buy them and the kitties

i came home and SUCCESSFULLY fed Booger!. Sadly since he still wasnt taking it even after leaving him in a container with the pinky over night i knew i had to. i force fed it


if im correct in reading your post

you took the snakes with you to the pet shop ?

you got it to successfully eat then you say he didnt

i dont understand did he eat then refuse another feed ?

i am not trying to give you a hard time but if you did take him to the shop that could be the reason for him not eating.

he may be an easily stressed nervous snake and the journey to the shop would have added to that stress.

also if he ate successfully then there would have been no need to force feed him as again this would add massive stress to the snake.

please correct me if i have got anything wrong in my post.

im just trying to work out why he's not eating and the best things to try to get him back eating.

cheers shaun

[ChloeTrahan82]

he isnt feeding on his own at all . ive tried everything everyone has told me,. he was getting so weak and his sides were sinking in and he was getting to the point he didnt want to drink. i dont know why but if i take his lips and show him where the water is he instantly reacts and drinks. he wasnt responding to drinking a couple days before i fed him. i took him to petsmart because a friend who used to raise BPs told me to bring him to see if the pinkies there were right size comparison to him cause the pinkies i bought from the exotics expo were way to big and the first time i tried to assist feed him by putting the head in the mouth he wouldnt even keep them in they were way to big he would spit them out so i was told to bring him to petsmart to size the pinkies with him to see if they would fit. the worker there i know actually helped me out cause she thought he was way too thin and suggested i try and assist/force feed him because of how thin and lifeless he was getting. she even gave me free bedding from the mouse cages to put in his container to help possibly entice the smells and get him to respond but when i got him home and put a pinky in his tank he wouldnt take to it. he would crawls over them. i even tried poking it a couple times to suggest movement and he didnt respond. when he would go up to them he would smell them with his toungue and completely turn away from them. the day before i assist fed him he would sit in the corner in a ball for hours and wouldnt move and when i usually open the box he would want to come out and for me to pick him up and instead just sat in the corner . i picked him up and he wouldnt move much just sat in my hand and when i would put him down usually he would crawl all over but wouldnt move. my fiancee told me he didnt look good and i just didnt want to lose him. i know snakes can go a while before feeding but he just wasnt looking good at all. since ive assist fed him,hes not only gotten his energy back, hes not flat looking anymore, plumped up signifigantly and drinks water regularly even has grown a little.

[gonesnakee]

I would consider getting a fecal done to ensure there are no internal parasites present.
Do you know if the snake was WC or "farmed" (captive hatched)?
They are more likely to have internal parasites than a healthy captive bred specimen.
Its very common for chain petstores to buy "farmed" as they are cheaper than captive bred & a dozen can be bought for the sae price as one from a decent breeder, Mark
P.S. lots of Pythons will not recognize a pinky as prey & require something with hair on it to get them interested.
A mouse pinky is WAY too small for a BP & rat Ps are too in many cases.

[shaunyboy]

can you post some pictures of your python it will help us work out if hes too thin etc

you could always try scenting the food item with something else

im not qualified to comment on ball pythons eating habits as i only keep carpets but theres a few ball keepers on here and gonesnakee also knows his snakes

cheers shaun