frozen vs live

[nanna]

My 2 1/2 year old ball python came to me eating 4-5 mice once a month I have been told her age and size she should be eating rats and that f/t would be the best are there any suggestions and or recommendations on how I should do this change with out freaking her out and her not eating at all
Thanks

[Freebody]

to be honest, when i got my womas and diamond they were on mice, i just gave them ft rats and they downed them np. maybe a little different with BP being notoriouse bad eaters, so im sure you may get better help in the next post. GL

[Lankyrob]

Two ways of thinking in my mind. Try the same prey they are eating now but f/t instead of live then when comfortable switch to rats OR switch straightbto f/t rats and see what happens.........

[Reptile_Reptile]

see i always have been an advocate for live feeds but lately ive been getting sketched out when i feed my corn snake rats cause they are always so interested in her and im always picking her up or moving the snake aka disturbing the crap outta my snake she is a good eater tho and is very cool about it (she doesnt mind me holding her when she strikes but i dont think thats good so i only do it if a rat is all over her) should i switch to f/t for rat feedings and will my royal eat f/t rats when he can eat rats cause i want to continue live feeding mice

[percey39]

I never feed live unless its for hatchies and neonats to get going.There is no need for it and all your doing is adding more stress to not only the mouse/rat but also your snake. Its to great a risk with no benefit.
Just heat a rat (scented with a mouse) up til its warm to touch and then wiggle it around on a pair of tongs at night in her enclosure. This should be enough to get her to strike which in most cases they will then eat once its in their gob.

[annieb_mice]

Nanna, try feeding a fresh killed rat and see how that goes. Rub some dirty mouse shavings on it if you want to mask the rat scent, but I'm sure you'll be fine. Remember that the normal body temperature of a rat is around 100 F, so if you chose to do a frozen thawed rat instead of a fresh killed one, to give it a good blast of heat (you can use a hair dryer for this) just before you offer it.

Reptile-reptile -- Why do you choose to feed live prey, especially knowing that there is a risk involved for your snake? If you enjoy watching the kill, perhaps you may want to rethink this. Especially since it might wind up turning on you and instead of watching your snake kill a rat... you'll be watching a rat kill your snake! There is NO way you will be quick enough to prevent a determined rat from attacking and either killing or severely injuring your snake.
Is it worth the risk?

[Freebody]

I agree, dont feed live, if you can possibly avoid live food, maybe its all you can find, bonk it first, or if you snake wont eat FT which is rare but their are cases try you best to feed FT. go to youtube and watch the live videos their. that way your little buddy is not at risk :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

Nanna, try feeding a fresh killed rat and see how that goes. Rub some dirty mouse shavings on it if you want to mask the rat scent, but I'm sure you'll be fine. Remember that the normal body temperature of a rat is around 100 F, so if you chose to do a frozen thawed rat instead of a fresh killed one, to give it a good blast of heat (you can use a hair dryer for this) just before you offer it.

Reptile-reptile -- Why do you choose to feed live prey, especially knowing that there is a risk involved for your snake? If you enjoy watching the kill, perhaps you may want to rethink this. Especially since it might wind up turning on you and instead of watching your snake kill a rat... you'll be watching a rat kill your snake! There is NO way you will be quick enough to prevent a determined rat from attacking and either killing or severely injuring your snake.
Is it worth the risk? trust me i feel for and think every feeder i walk through my door is cute but i figure the snake sits in its tank all day and when it gets to come out all it gets to do is be held. soooo i give it some action. and no need to be a jerk about it its all personal preference at least im open to F/T and asking questions instead of just being a blind advocate

[Reptile_Reptile]

can any1 tell me how to do alternative things for my snake in the lines of entertainment or stimuli. and wouldnt a dead rat/mouse have less nutrients or some such? i just want some facts b4 i just jump on board. (does everyone on this board F/T)

[infernalis]

can any1 tell me how to do alternative things for my snake in the lines of entertainment or stimuli. and wouldnt a dead rat/mouse have less nutrients or some such? i just want some facts b4 i just jump on board. (does everyone on this board F/T)

Just so you lknow, No one is attacking you or "being a jerk" about it..

I mod here, own a board and belong to 11 others, trust me when I say that the vast majority of real/serious/caring snake owners do their best to feed previously dead (Either pre-killed or F/T) prey items to their snakes.

Unlike mammals, reptiles do not require amusement or entertainment to make their lives interesting, Most reptiles (Pythons and corn snakes included) are very happy to just sit under their hides most of the time.

In fact, constant handling is rather stressful to the animal.

Again, this is just suggestions for you, there should never be any reason to be defensive. ;)

[Reptile_Reptile]

thanks. does it work like a normal feeding?

[infernalis]

thanks. does it work like a normal feeding?

Yes.

My corn snake, I just leave the dead prey in overnight, it's always gone by morning.


With my BP I just hold the rat by the tail with long tongs.

Be careful with pythons, They have heat pits and can accidentally strike your hand.

[Reptile_Reptile]

interesting. is there any list of pros an cons i can look over or is it just so cut and dry that there is no reason to have one? oh and yes i"m very aware of his heat Pitts I'm probably one of the most knowledgeable newbs out there i spent most of grade school middle school and high school doing all my reports and studies on pythons Ive been obsessed since 8 and didn't get my first snake till 18

[percey39]

Live prey will carry heaps more parrasite's and worms that ones that have been kiled and stored in the freezer for a month or so.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Live prey will carry heaps more parrasite's and worms that ones that have been kiled and stored in the freezer for a month or so.
no offence but i dont want to hear that propaganda. in the wild its all a snake eats is live prey and many many of them live full and healthy lives so i think a rat i get from a store that hasnt been eating garbage and running thru fields is still a lot better and i cant see it happening like that (although still a valid point to reduce all threat to snake)

[SnakeyJay]

obviously they do live off live prey in the wild, however thats also a factor as to why the wild life span of snakes is generally shorter than a captive snake... everyone has that little interest of the live hunt however the general danger to the snake stops most people... i mean whats the point of preventable injuries and expensive vets bills.?? Cant you watch a documentary if you want to see things like that? just a thought x

[Reptile_Reptile]

obviously they do live off live prey in the wild, however thats also a factor as to why the wild life span of snakes is generally shorter than a captive snake... everyone has that little interest of the live hunt however the general danger to the snake stops most people... i mean whats the point of preventable injuries and expensive vets bills.?? Cant you watch a documentary if you want to see things like that? just a thought x um ok i already went thru this (read all b4 you judge) i never did it for the show in fact the only reason i watched was to ensure safety or relative safety. but i just fed my Maynard so when the time comes around to feed Maynard and Gonda again i think ill try some F/T.

[SnakeyJay]

I do read all the posts lol... just felt strongly so had to say my point... anyway it is good that your open to f/t aswell... let us know how you get on with the change x

[Reptile_Reptile]

ok will do. and i want the record to be clear i am in no way using these snakes for my own amusement beyond the fact that i love snakes and just caring for them brings some measurement of fulfillment to my life i didn't have before. i wish the best for them and all other snakes that probably will slither into my care and will do the right thing always and when i had no other corroboration besides articles and blogs online and stuff from books i had read and felt right to live feed and now i am reconsidering my ways with a trial run of f/t

[SnakeyJay]

great news... my baby brb sat in my hand last nite drinkin from his water bowl.. i wwas amazed x

[Reptile_Reptile]

great news... my baby brb sat in my hand last nite drinkin from his water bowl.. i wwas amazed x just for clarification what does brb refer to?

[SnakeyJay]

brazilian rainbow boa x check my thread on moisture in brb viv... pics of him on there x

[infernalis]

no offence but i dont want to hear that propaganda. in the wild its all a snake eats is live prey and many many of them live full and healthy lives so i think a rat i get from a store that hasnt been eating garbage and running thru fields is still a lot better and i cant see it happening like that (although still a valid point to reduce all threat to snake)

No disrespect again, Just try and stay open minded about this.

In the wild the life expectancy of snakes is usually half or less than the life expectancy in captivity.

One of those reasons is that virtually all wild snakes are loaded with internal parasites they got from eating wild game with parasites in it.

My personal collection (as with many of us) cost me all my spare money to obtain and keep fed. The last thing I need is one of my prized snakes dying from worms in it's gut.:eek:

In the end, regardless if you consider it propaganda or not, live mice and rats do present avoidable problems.

I fed one of my big 4 foot milk snakes a live mouse a few years ago, he got hold of the mouse, and the mouse turned on him and bit the crap out of my snake. He would not eat anything at all for me for over a month.

[Reptile_Reptile]

No disrespect again, Just try and stay open minded about this.

In the wild the life expectancy of snakes is usually half or less than the life expectancy in captivity.

One of those reasons is that virtually all wild snakes are loaded with internal parasites they got from eating wild game with parasites in it.

My personal collection (as with many of us) cost me all my spare money to obtain and keep fed. The last thing I need is one of my prized snakes dying from worms in it's gut.:eek:

In the end, regardless if you consider it propaganda or not, live mice and rats do present avoidable problems.

I fed one of my big 4 foot milk snakes a live mouse a few years ago, he got hold of the mouse, and the mouse turned on him and bit the crap out of my snake. He would not eat anything at all for me for over a month. well as i said i'm going to try it ill keep you all posted on how it goes

[percey39]

Hmm propagander hey, I hope you like worming your snakes a lot. I suppose it would not be that bad when you only have 2 in money terms. When your collection grows and you have spent a house deposit and maybe more on them, thats when you get really worried about taking risks that are far too easily avoided. Also pet stores in general have bad cleaning routines and just think of all the wee and poo thats on that rat your snake is eating. In the end its your choice as to what you do with your animals, i just hope for their sake that reconsider your actions in regards to live feeding.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Hmm propagander hey, I hope you like worming your snakes a lot. I suppose it would not be that bad when you only have 2 in money terms. When your collection grows and you have spent a house deposit and maybe more on them, thats when you get really worried about taking risks that are far too easily avoided. Also pet stores in general have bad cleaning routines and just think of all the wee and poo thats on that rat your snake is eating. In the end its your choice as to what you do with your animals, i just hope for their sake that reconsider your actions in regards to live feeding.
-_- i just went thru this

[infernalis]

Stay cool, Just words on a screen. ;)

[Reptile_Reptile]

Stay cool, Just words on a screen. ;)
im solid bro im not some kind of internet flamer or anything. i said one dont be a jerk and now i'm turned into a raving lunatic that goeas off the handlebars at everything lolzzzzzzzzzz

[Freebody]

like wayne said about internal parasites, these parasites not only stay in wild reptile but if they didnt have these and they ate the food they ate they would most likley die as a result, monitors for an example, eat carrion the worst most rotten meat, if you gave that to a captile bread monitor, im pretty sure it would not do so well, i cant say it would die but i would be sick for sure. as fare as freezing food goes, it also kills any bugs ie snake mites that could be a problem at that store as just one example, FT is by far your better choice for food :)

[Deej85]

Could someone please provide me with the source that says that frozen/thawed prey has less nutritional value then a live prey item?


If I freeze a hamburger patty does it have less nutritional value then a patty that has never been frozen?

Where do all those nutrients go?

[Jay]

if you want your snake to feel like its hunting dangle a f/t infront of him drag it away slowly and put it on the other side of the tank i do it , and you get to watch your snake slither up to it

[presspirate]

I feed all of my snakes F/T including 2 that I have had, and one that I currently have that I was assured would only eat live. All of my snakes strike feed. I use tongs, and dance the prey around in front of them. Sometimes I'll even talk to them in a high pitched Mickey Mouse voice...."Hello Mr. Snake how are you today? Gosh it's sure a lovely day today, I think I'll have a picnic with Pluto and Minnie and.......arrrrrgggggghhhhhYou're squish ing *cough* squishing meeeee ooooohhhh goodbye cruel world....*Cough*" But... I digress

[Reptile_Reptile]

um... im not sure if thats the method i will be taking thanks tho :) ^above post^

[Jay]

um... im not sure if thats the method i will be taking thanks tho :) ^above post^

one day you will there is NO need to feed live

[Reptile_Reptile]

oh yea. im off live. my bp is on frozen rat pups or w/e i kinda suck with the size names and my corn is on frozen adult mice

[presspirate]

um... im not sure if thats the method i will be taking thanks tho :) ^above post^
Got something against Mickey Mouse Bro?:O_o:

[Ch^4]

Somewhat of a digression, but still on the topic of F/T vs. live.

I have started "training" my younger snakes to eat via "exploration." For example, they are put into their feeding container, I get the F/T prey item, and set it in the container.

Sometimes they take a minute or so, but I've found that all 4 of my younger snakes slowly slither up, check it out, and ever so gently NOM!

My young BRB was fast as sin and would strike and coil instantaneously prior to incorporating the "exploratory" method. She was a handful to remove from the feeding container, but since introducing her to "exploratory feeding," she has yet to strike and is as gentle as could be when being removed.

My adult BP still feeds F/T directly off the tongs, but that's because he was weaned off of live and likes to see some movement.

Sorry for this extremely long post, but I was wondering if anyone else used the "exploratory" method, as it seems to work quite well for my 'children.' Maybe it's a coincident, but their desire to take off my hand when removing from them from the feeding container has reduced drastically since implementation of this method. Any thoughts?

[annieb_mice]

The question was asked if there was deterioration of nutrients in frozen food vs live.
Yes, there will be some deterioration over time, but this will depend on the method used to store the food. In ANY frozen item, regardless of whether it's a frozen rat or a hamburger patty or steak or perogies, it will slowly deteriorate over time. For human foods, there are charts which suggest using frozen products before a certain time... for example, certain meats should be used within 4 - 6 months, other products should only be kept for one or two months before being discarded.
I don't recommend using any frozen feeders that are over 6 months frozen in your freezer.
There is also the problem of freezer burnt meat. Would YOU want to eat a steak which has been freezer burnt? Didn't think so. Your snake won't be happy with a freezer burnt rat either. If you notice any large white dry patches on the skin, chances are the prey has been freezer burnt and is unusable.
Spoiling can also happen if feeders are partially or fully thawed and then refrozen. Bacteria growth only slows during freezing, it doesn't stop, so everytime a frozen feeder starts to thaw, that bacteria will start to grow faster and decomposition will occur. Most times you can tell when you open the freezer bag. If you notice a VERY strong foul odour (not just a rodent odour) then throw the entire bag out immediately and get fresh stock. This isn't a very common problem, but it does happen.

I'm happy to hear that you have decided to use F/T instead of live. I think you'll find it easier and cheaper in the end and your snakes will be safer! :)
As you have already thawed out a few meals for your snakes, you are already aware of how to properly thaw them out... but just as a refresher, don't try to thaw rodent in the microwave or oven. Either way will end up cooking the meat and make it inedible for your snakes... as well as filling your home up with a horrible VERY nasty stench. :)

[shaunyboy]

I feed all of my snakes F/T including 2 that I have had, and one that I currently have that I was assured would only eat live. All of my snakes strike feed. I use tongs, and dance the prey around in front of them. Sometimes I'll even talk to them in a high pitched Mickey Mouse voice...."Hello Mr. Snake how are you today? Gosh it's sure a lovely day today, I think I'll have a picnic with Pluto and Minnie and.......arrrrrgggggghhhhhYou're squish ing *cough* squishing meeeee ooooohhhh goodbye cruel world....*Cough*" But... I digress


you sure your not scottish mate ? :yes:

i now cant get a picture out my head of you in a mini mouse costume trying to get your snakes to eat

before you ask i don't know why its mini mouse as opposed to mickey :crazy2:

but you got me laughing my head of here and the more i try to explain it the more my kids are looking at me strangely

pretty sure they're sizing me up for the old folks home already mate

cheers shaun

[presspirate]

Glad I made your day Shauny. Re: the old folks home....Wouldn't be so bad as long as you could have your carpets now would it? :crazy2:

[shaunyboy]

Glad I made your day Shauny. Re: the old folks home....Wouldn't be so bad as long as you could have your carpets now would it? :crazy2:


your a genius mate.....!!!

why did i not think of that

id have much more room at an old folks home for my carpets

cheers for that mate

[presspirate]

your a genius mate.....!!!

why did i not think of that

id have much more room at an old folks home for my carpets

cheers for that mate
It's all part of the public service I offer. :yes:

[Lankyrob]

You would also getfed three times a day without having to do anything yourself so more time to spend with the carpets also!

[annieb_mice]

Don't forget the sponge baths and pretty young nurses waiting on you hand and foot... ;)

[Freebody]

man i cant wait to get old! LOL

[Corni_snake]

@Annieb_mice- please correct me if im wrong when i was reading you post about F/T gettnig freezer burnt does this generally happen if the F/T has touched agaisnt the freezer directly?

about Live Vs Frozen: Just my opinion, nothing agiasnt what any one has said, and i havent even got my snake yet but have done my research etc, I dont know if this applies to the US, but i was under the impression by a friend that you couldnt buy live prey in the UK to feed to snakes? For me personally i guess would prefer to imetate the prey? using tongs....plus for me buying frozen mice/pinkies works out MMUCH cheaper, espisally if the snake decides to doesnt want to eat.....

Other..@pressmate! >.< I have done that myself , with my friends corn snake in the high pitch voice kinda way...... so cruel but yet so funny....wrong but good......

[annieb_mice]

Freezer burn is caused by air getting to the frozen item. So, if your frozen rats are loose in your freezer and are touching the sides of the freezer itself, then yes, they will most likely become freezer burnt. Not because they were touching the sides, but because they were improperly packaged.
When you put your frozen rodents in the freezer, make sure they are in a proper freezer bag and as much air as possible has been removed from the bag. (DON"T suck the air out!!)

As for live feeding in the UK, I was under the impression that if the animal is starving and refusing all attempts to feed it F/T prey, you can get permission to feed it live. But I don't live in the UK so may have misunderstood. :)

[infernalis]

read this.......

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-thought-forum/84707-decided-give-up-no-more-rats.html#post578450