38 gallon ok for a JCP?

[TylerWortman]

Hey I was wondering which tank would be better to keep my jungle carpet python in for the rest of her life. I have a 40 breeder the dimensions are 36x18x17 that I plan on keeping her in but im getting a 38 gal and the dimensions are 36x13x20. Which tank do you think would be better for her when shes full grown?

[gonesnakee]

Neither, you will want something that is 4ft X 2ft X 2ft or larger IMHO Mark

[TylerWortman]

Yeah I know thats what I would liiike but I don't have room for that right now. I plan on Keeping her around 5 feet so that the cage isnt too small for her. I've been told by breeders that it is okay for them as long as i have stuff for her to climb

[Jenn_06]

i just have to ask how are you planing on keeping her around 5 feet? i just saw a female can get 8.5ft.

[gonesnakee]

i just have to ask how are you planing on keeping her around 5 feet? i just saw a female can get 8.5ft.

My thoughts exactly.
So your plan is to intentionally try & stunt this animals growth?
Very, very, very BAD idea! Don;t compromise her health due to your lack of space.
As far as it goes the above enclosures would likely be good for approx 2-3 years, but she will require more space with age/growth.
We do not dictate to animals how big they can grow we accept the fact of what they can become as adults & plan for such or choose another snake that one can provide proper housing (space) for. Mark
P.S. ANY "breeder" that suggests that intentionally stunting an animals growth is "OK" is not worthy

[Lankyrob]

Most snakes you are looking at 15+years of care and hopefully a lot longer. If you aren't able to provide the space, equipment and care for the adult animal then really you shouldn't get the baby animal.

[TylerWortman]

I have seen JCPs that are 8 ft long. How do they get there? The owner feeds and feeds their snake. I have seen ball pythons over 5 feet. Why? Because the owner feeds and feeds and feeds their snake. I have seen JCPs that are 12 years old that are just at 5 feet and this is because they are perfectly healthy eating once every two weeks. It is very natural for these snakes to eat around 20 times a year and by doing so they do not become 8.5 ft they stay on the short end of the average size. Average size for JCP are 5-6 ft. Rarely do they become 8 ft and when they do its because they are offered food usually multiple times a week and because their owner want them to grow as big as they possibly can get. I most likely will build a tall vivarium for her in a couple of years but for now she will be perfectly healthy in her 40.

[gonesnakee]

I have seen JCPs that are 8 ft long. How do they get there? The owner feeds and feeds their snake. I have seen ball pythons over 5 feet. Why? Because the owner feeds and feeds and feeds their snake. I have seen JCPs that are 12 years old that are just at 5 feet and this is because they are perfectly healthy eating once every two weeks. It is very natural for these snakes to eat around 20 times a year and by doing so they do not become 8.5 ft they stay on the short end of the average size. Average size for JCP are 5-6 ft. Rarely do they become 8 ft and when they do its because they are offered food usually multiple times a week and because their owner want them to grow as big as they possibly can get. I most likely will build a tall vivarium for her in a couple of years but for now she will be perfectly healthy in her 40.

WRONG!!! LMAO
Maybe some of our Aussie friends can pipe in here seeings how you are doubting those with over a decade of experience with the animals.
JCPs on average are around 7-8ft as full grown adults being fed once every 14-21 days as adults & once every 7-14 days as neonates/subadults.
Not sure who is filling your head with the BS you are trying to present here but thats what it is BS.
The smallest of the carpet subspecies are IJs & they average 5-7ft plus.
Its not uncommon at all for a properly maintained JCP to hit an excess of 8ft.
Best be doing some more research & look for some sources of info that are actually reliable ;) Cheers Mark
P.S. currently keeping apporx 30? "Carpets" Over the last decade I've kept/keep CCPs, JCPs, IJs, Bredli, Diamonds & various crosses of the subspecies as well as do most of my breeder friends.
Pretty confident I know what I'm doing ;) LOL

[Freebody]

i really hope your not going to hurt your snake to spite the facts we are telling you. your snake should be cages in a 4 foot long by 2'x2x enclose no matter what. you can obviously keep in in smaller cages for the first could years. but how are you to know if your going to have a small size snake vrs the guy with the same snake that got 8 feet? Lenth is not a product of over feeding like you claim, all over feeding does is make you snake fat and unhealthy, not execivly long, your snake should be fed adequately for its size. if your snake is getting fat cut back a little vise versa if its to thin. under feeding will dwarf your snake becuase you esentually killing your snake and not giving it what it need to properly grow, as a result you will have a tortured unhealth small snake, like gonesnakee said, which i might add he is a very respected well known snake breeder, he knows what hes talking about. What he just said is Fact. what your being told is missleading info to make a sale. if anyone is telling you underfeeding your snake to keep it small is a good thing dont listen to a word they have to say as they are selling you snakes for $ and care nothing of the snakes well being. we care for the snake well being and nothing more. I hope you change you mind on the matter for the snakes sake.

[gonesnakee]

Keep in mind that some of these ying yang "breeders" keep adult Carpets in tubs in rack systems as well :rolleyes: Mark

[Freebody]

sad but true. i will never do it myself, tubs in racks for the young, proper cages for adults is how i plan to breed snakes when the time comes. even if it means smaller collection to accomidate the room. if i want to make more money, more room will be needed. ill sleep in the carport if i have to LOL

[Jenn_06]

most snake are feed every 2 weeks that will not slow down the growth, all overfeeding does is make the snake grow faster fatter and die sooner. i dont know Mark(gonesnakee) but sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

and 4ft cage is not that big, so if you look really hard there will be a place you can put it.

[gonesnakee]

On the whole 5-6ft thing etc. also keep in mind that some of these "breeders" think they need to start breeding Carpets at 1.5-2 YO as well :(
A female Carpet should be given at least 4 full years to grow & mature & males at least 2 IMHO
A female that was bred too small or too young will never reach her actual size potential.
Also a snake that is not fed enough does not use any of its food energy to continue growing, it uses it all just to subsist thus why there are these stunted specimens out there.
That & the fact that these "breeders" are breeding snakes far too small/young as well.
If given a full four years you will find that most ALL Carpets will reach at least 6ft, not all will but at least they were given the chance to fully mature prior being bred.
Keep in mind that snakes, just like humans etc. CAN successfully breed as "teenagers" but doesn't mean they should or are physically mature enough to do so without taking extra unnessicary risks. Mark
P.S. your snake will be fine in one of the tanks mentioned for at least 2 years or so anyhow.

[percey39]

Once again someone has misinformed you. I have heard of 9.5 foot jungle which to be fair is a massive jungle, but they will average around 7-8 foot long and will need a 4 x 2 x 2 size tank as a minimum. I would recommend a 4 x 2 x 3 for a jungle as they like to climb and stretch out.. Massive adult snaks are not caused by powerfeeding, its simply their genetics as they have good sized parents. Powerfeeding is a technique used by many ( most newbies overfeed snakes for their entirity of their life, nearly all snakes in collections are overfed by their wild counterparts standards ) Ii have done it to a few of my snakes, they are fed mainly birds and rabbits which are a very high protein and lean meat ( hardly any fat in these food types compared to rats and mice ). This will burst their growth rates when they are young and they become 2-3 times bigger than animals fed on 10 day basis. They are not unhealthy as when they are young they have an extremely fast metabolism which means all the excess proteins and fat are used to make the snake grow. Their metabolism slows around the age of 18 months this is where you can run into trouble with obese snakes and fat deposits on the liver and heart start to build.

As Mark said has said a lot of smaller animals are produce by snakes that were bred too early.

Listen to Mark as he does know what he is talking about. I have kept aussie snakes for a long time now and jungles are very capable of getting to 8 foot by the time they are 5-6years old. Who ever said to stunt your snakes growth does not deserve to be a breeder of any sort and if they are throwing that around to make sales than that shows me they are only in it for money, not the animals!!

[gonesnakee]

Also if you didn't grasp it from the above post it is most important that they are fed a proper diet the first couple years when their metabolisms are higher & they are meant to be doing most of their growing.
A proper diet the first few years is key to a long healthy life, Mark
P.S. if you don't trust a CDN in reguards to Aussie Pythons trust an Aussie keeper ;)

[red ink]

The only JCPs (M. s. cheynei) that would nudge the 7 foot mark are the ones from Athertons tablelands, typically these are duller (cream/tan and black) in colouration and not the streotype black and gold/yellow. True rainforest locality jungles struggle to get over 1.5 meters (5 feet).

[percey39]

Also a healthy feeding routine is 7-10 days for a hatchie up to around 18 months of age then drop feeding down to every 10-14 days. Once they reach adulthood you can feed them once a month.
Also another thing to consider is, is your jungle pure or a coastal cross. If its a pure jungle the average sizes given are accurate and if its a cross expect it to be close to 9 foot.

[percey39]

The only JCPs (M. s. cheynei) that would nudge the 7 foot mark are the ones from Athertons tablelands, typically these are duller (cream/tan and black) in colouration and not the streotype black and gold/yellow. True rainforest locality jungles struggle to get over 1.5 meters (5 feet).

Specific localities over there are rare to find as most of the species they originally took over have been breed to other localities and other species by now. There are pure species, but are they of pure locality that is the question?
Also there are plenty of 6 foot black and golds getting around and others that are bigger again. I do know where you are coming from though.

[red ink]

Also a healthy feeding routine is 7-10 days for a hatchie up to around 18 months of age then drop feeding down to every 10-14 days. Once they reach adulthood you can feed them once a month.
Also another thing to consider is, is your jungle pure or a coastal cross. If its a pure jungle the average sizes given are accurate and if its a cross expect it to be close to 9 foot.

OT: mate, whereabouts in Melb are you? I'm in the western subs.

[percey39]

Im just out of the city mate, down in gippsland but do spend a little bit of time in narre warren.

[red ink]

Specific localities over there are rare to find as most of the species they originally took over have been breed to other localities and other species by now. There are pure species, but are they of pure locality that is the question?
Also there are plenty of 6 foot black and golds getting around and others that are bigger again. I do know where you are coming from though.


Fair enough mate, guess we're just spoilt for choice here lol. I myself am planning to get a pair next season and will be housing each in seperate enclosures measuring 80cm x 60cm x 90cm. Though i will be selecting specimens that are around the 5 foot mark TL.

[percey39]

I have read in the wild that a 2m black and gold has been recorded but the average was was around 1.8m. I kept them a while ago and they were kept in 4x2x3 cages and seemed to love the extra space.

[marvelfreak]

I have seen JCPs that are 8 ft long. How do they get there? The owner feeds and feeds their snake. I have seen ball pythons over 5 feet. Why? Because the owner feeds and feeds and feeds their snake. I have seen JCPs that are 12 years old that are just at 5 feet and this is because they are perfectly healthy eating once every two weeks. It is very natural for these snakes to eat around 20 times a year and by doing so they do not become 8.5 ft they stay on the short end of the average size. Average size for JCP are 5-6 ft. Rarely do they become 8 ft and when they do its because they are offered food usually multiple times a week and because their owner want them to grow as big as they possibly can get. I most likely will build a tall vivarium for her in a couple of years but for now she will be perfectly healthy in her 40.

10527

This is a 8' 4" female jungle carpet. So because my Jungle is over 8 feet i overfeed her? Does she look fat? Instead of listening to some dumb10528 You should do a little research. I owned her for nine years. She was about 2 and 1/2 feet when i got her.(a yearling) First two years i had her she ate once every two weeks. At about 4 years of age she stopped eating every Nov thru March. Breeding season. I try a rat every two weeks, but she won't touch them. End of March She will start eating once a month for two months then every other week. Come Oct. i feed her once a week. She eats roughly 14 to 16 times a year, but still grew 4 feet in the last 5 years. Oct is the only time she will eat once a week. I always try once a week in April and May, but she won't eat but once each of those monthes. I also Have a Borneo Short Tail python that for is a yearling that for the last 5 monthes will only eat once a month, but in that times grown 4 inches and keeps getting fatter. I try feeding every two weeks, but will only eat one small rat a month.

My Jungle is far from over fed, but slowly keeps growning. Who ever is feeding you these BS is a lying piece of 10528. Just like with people genetics has a lot to do with it. Everything Mark said is correct. He is a very well respected breeder of carpet python who knows what he talking about. Also please PM this breeder name so i know never to buy from them.

[gonesnakee]

Keep in mind folks that this person is only repeating what they have been told by someone they considered 'knowledgable" on the subject.
Good thing they came here to here from others as well :)
At the Aussies, we do not see any locality Carpets of any sort here other than the subspecies of course.
A Jungles a Jungle & even when considered "pure" is it really?
It may have had some Coastal or Diamond in it from way back when???
Nowadays with the Jaguar & Albino morphs finding "pure" subspecies specimens will be even harder than in the past, no hopes of any "pure" "locales" thats for sure.
You guys won't ship us any so we are stuck with what we have now LOL Cheers Mark

[marvelfreak]

Keep in mind folks that this person is only repeating what they have been told by someone they considered 'knowledgable" on the subject.
Good thing they came here to here from others as well :)
Cheers Mark

I know. I am sorry Tyler i am not mad at you it's some of these so called breeders that got me work up. There's a new lady on here who got a snake and was told it was a Jungle, but it's a Irain Jaya Carpet. And then her friend got a boa that she was told was a burmese python. I just hate seeing people being misinform or flat out lied to. Just to make a buck.:mad: Or give advice when they don't know what they're talking about.

[gonesnakee]

I know. I am sorry Tyler i am not mad at you it's some of these so called breeders that got me work up. There's a new lady on here who got a snake and was told it was a Jungle, but it's a Irain Jaya Carpet. And then her friend got a boa that she was told was a burmese python. I just hate seeing people being misinform or flat out lied to. Just to make a buck.:mad: Or give advice when they don't know what they're talking about.

I think we all get worked up by such nonesense.
I too hope that Tyler doesn't just take us as a bunch of arseholes based on our concern/passion for the animals.
Don't let us scare/piss you off we are trying to help. Really! Cheers Mark

[TylerWortman]

Dont worry I haven't taken any posts too emotionally. Who knows how to tie a noose?

Nah Im jk about the noose. Knowing that all you guys were really quick to jump on my balls and tell me really whats up shows me that you care and obviously have more knowledgeable advice than the dude I was getting my info from. My JCP is a lil baby and has a long time before she'll need to be moved out of the 40 gallon. Here is my new plan to housing her.

Sydney my JCP is in 20 a high right now with hides, branches and fresh water that I change every 24-48 hrs. I have a 40 gallon breeder that is slowly getting set-up for her. (still trying to figure best way to secure a main climbing branch bottom corner to top corner that leads up to a higher resting place closer to caged light) When she becomes a little larger about 24-30 inches I will move her into the 40. Not so much longer when she gets closer to full length (which I found recently can be VERY debatable) so when she becomes about 3.5-4ft I will have a viv about 4x2x3 that I will be able to move her into.

How's that sound, much better?

[percey39]

A Jungles a Jungle & even when considered "pure" is it really?
It may have had some Coastal or Diamond in it from way back when???
Nowadays with the Jaguar & Albino morphs finding "pure" subspecies specimens will be even harder than in the past, no hopes of any "pure" "locales" thats for sure.
You guys won't ship us any so we are stuck with what we have now LOL Cheers Mark

I wish i could export pure locality specimans as i would imagine the money on my end would be huge lol, but it would be good to see breeders such as yourself that like pures get the chance to work with a wide variety 100% pure aussie snakes. When the day comes and we can import/export i will do some swaps for some of the species you guy's can keep.

Nice healthy looking girl Chuck, the biggest i had in the past was a 7 foot male. She will continue to grow if she is only 9, even if its only slightly.

That sound great Tyler, sydney will love the room. Thats the size i kept mine in for 3 years when they were adults and they loved it.

[Freebody]

Dont worry I haven't taken any posts too emotionally. Who knows how to tie a noose?

Nah Im jk about the noose. Knowing that all you guys were really quick to jump on my balls and tell me really whats up shows me that you care and obviously have more knowledgeable advice than the dude I was getting my info from. My JCP is a lil baby and has a long time before she'll need to be moved out of the 40 gallon. Here is my new plan to housing her.

Sydney my JCP is in 20 a high right now with hides, branches and fresh water that I change every 24-48 hrs. I have a 40 gallon breeder that is slowly getting set-up for her. (still trying to figure best way to secure a main climbing branch bottom corner to top corner that leads up to a higher resting place closer to caged light) When she becomes a little larger about 24-30 inches I will move her into the 40. Not so much longer when she gets closer to full length (which I found recently can be VERY debatable) so when she becomes about 3.5-4ft I will have a viv about 4x2x3 that I will be able to move her into.

How's that sound, much better?
sounds great! im really happy you have listened to what was said, somtimes people dont like to here what they didnt want to hear and shut down the train of thought. Good on you bro, your snake will thank you for it i garantee it :)

[marvelfreak]

How's that sound, much better?

Sounds awesome! We are true snake lovers here and just hate to see or hear of a snake not getting the best of care. And it really get under our skin when we hear some of the outragous things some of this people will tell newbies just to sell a snake. I am really glad to see you want to do what's best for your snake. And once again sorry i took it so presonal.:)

[Will0W783]

Tyler, very glad to hear you are taking what we all have to say here to heart. I really didn't need to add anything, as Mark gives clean, clear thorough advice. I have a big old carpet of unknown lineage that was sold to me as a "jungle" but is most likely a cross of some sort. He is 7.5 feet long and, like Marvelfreak's female, has his on and off feed periods of the year. I feed all my snakes every two weeks. Carpets should always be offered something that is the thickness of the snake's thickest portion, or slightly more. Carpets can handle a heck of a large meal, but it's best not to overdo it. My big guy eats large rats, my 2-year-old male eats small rats, and my 3- and 4-year old females eat medium rats. Also you should make sure to get your JCP eating f/t rats ASAP. Carpets can get "addicted" to mice and then it's very hard to switch them over to rats when they get to a size where it takes 4-5 mice to fill them up.