Not fair really but...

[Feebo]

You know what? Maybe I`m getting old but I`ve had enough of trying to help new keepers. That`s a few times now I`ve had people actually ASKING for help but then totally discarding it because it`s not what they want to hear. They`ve made thier mind up that "a fish tank will do" or "Three male snakes to a viv" is what they want to see and that`s the end of it. All other arguments for helping new keepers aside, I just haven`t got time, I litterally do not have time in my life to waste on these people. Of course I realise that sounds like I`m tarring all newcomers with the same brush. I realise they`re not all like that but still, I`ve had enough. They`ve gone out and bought a snake before they`ve been ARSED to learn a bloody thing about how to keep it alive and they just DON`T WANT TO HEAR "You`re going to need a suitable vivarium" or "You can`t put multiple males in one viv" or "You shouldn`t feed it every other day" and that`s that.
It`s a shame because it`s hard enough for the honest newcomer with all the rubbish on the internet and all the conflicting views that are floating about but I`ve just had it. It just pisses me right off when someone blatantly just doesn`t want to hear anything against what they`ve already made thier minds up about. I WILL put six male Cornsnakes in a fish bowl and that`s that, now tell me something I WANT to hear! Balls to that, I`ve had enough. They can find out for themselves, and when they`ve got a sick snake or a dead snake because they didn`t want to listen to experienced advice? They can get advice on how to deal with RI`s or scale damage from someone else! Time and again this is happening and it`s just annoying me. They can learn the hard way, or at least without my years of experience. Much the same as a petulant teenager wouldn`t benefit from experienced help, people that have made thier minds up based on what THEY want and not what the snake NEEDS, just will never listen. I`ve bloody had it with them. Rant over.

[marvelfreak]

I can't say i blame you at all. I know a couple others on here that will not post on certain people post because they offer very good sound advice and it was total ignored (sorry if mispelled).Then they come back ask for help with a problem they could have avoided all together if they would have just listen to the advice they were getting with a open mind. Or the people your trying to help flat out get pissy with you. I haved snake for over 17 years and i am still learn more about them every day. When i ask a question i am always open minded about the answers i get. Some people just want a yes man.

We are all animal lover here and we have all done something at one time or another that has hurt or worse yet maybe even kill a poor animal. We just don't want to see people make the same mistakes. If it seems like we come off kind of hard on newbie with some of our answer, just remember we are a very passion bunch of people. And we just don't want to see some poor animal hurt or suffer because of stupidy. Answer might not always be what you want to here, but we don't care if it hurts your feeling WE CARE ABOUT THE HEALTH AND SAFTY OF ALL ANIMALS. It a true shame when people ask for help, but don't want to listen to the answers if it not what they want to hear. There are alot of people on here with years of herping and breeding under their belt. It be a shame to waste a great resource of first hand information.:)

[infernalis]

As with anything regarding our forum, please don't hesitate to use my PM box to voice whatever is on your mind.

If it can be corrected, I will.

I do realize that it's impossible to pass a magic wand over the ignorant and they will suddenly gain common sense, But I will do whatever I can to keep our forum flowing and talking and as friendly yet professional as possible.

Just remember guys, there are thousands of unregistered people who read these forums looking for information, and if we stop posting that information, then many animals will suffer in one way or another from perpetuated ignorance.

When someone posts misinformation or otherwise clouds up the help we all wish to provide, we need to ensure that the last post made is not the one loaded with bad advice..

Otherwise we may as well just flood the off topic sections with non relevant rubbish and be just like so many other forums on the net where people are talking about boobs and behinds or arguing rather than discussing our pets and husbandry practices...

[Feebo]

I heared that Wayne, that`s why this is such a shame. As you say, there`s no magic wand for these bloody people I realise that. I think as a compromise I`ll have a think about what to say and then post a thread offering a mentorship to any newcomer that actually seriously wants to learn, after all, I CAN be arsed, I just have less and less time for fools as I get older and my health declines further. Maybe you could sticky it when you spot it for me? That way I`m not totally removing myself and my experience from the arena. I`ve certainly had it with just helping out left right and centre though. I was sat up at midnight looking for links and typing out advise for that a.hole recently, it`s not going to happen again until I`m sure the person is (A) serious (B) mature enough to listen to experience and (C) actually requesting my personal help.
I`ve had enough. I don`t have the time to waste, it`s far too precious to give away to people like that who are obviously destined to stumble through their snake keeping life (and life in general) making needless mistakes and killing snakes because they`re lacking maturity, intelligence and humility.
Cheers Chuck :) I was thinking I might attract a few negative comments on this, it`s nice to know my forum friends understand my reasoning on this. :) How does that compromise sound to you Wayne? :)

[infernalis]

I try to look at the group as a whole rather than any one individual.

I guess what I'm saying is think about the other people who did use the links and learn something. ;)

I know I have learned a lot just being here this last year..

[SnakeyJay]

to be fair though there are plenty of new people out there that have gone and researched as best as possible, and yet still get conflicting or wrong info. I myself have been having trouble with my young brb and yet one or two posts on here have practically solved the situation instantly.
dont let the ignorant few drown out the real hobbiests. x

[Freebody]

I agree with all views here, i would hate to see your wisdom go to waste freebo, as i have learned much from you and everyone else here, their is always going to be people that dont deserve to wear the skin on their back,let alone a reptile. The odd thing is this is by far the best forum i have posted on, the people here care about the pets ,not about how great the knoledge they hold is, ei, before i came here i had joined a different forum asking about my retic when i first got her if i could house her with a female coastal i had gotten, i got a strip torn off me for asking the question,i got What you dont know? omg your so stupid, i know lol you dont know lol i do lol, i got no help because they felt i didnt deserve an answere for being so ********....if i wasnt the person i am and said the hell with this im seeking help else where and found this place... well a certain person did the same to me here my first post but wayne made a fast pm and expained this place does care and to stick it out a bit and ill learn somthing here,and so i did and he was absulutly right.which im gratefull indeed because it may not have been the answere i wanted but it was the help i needed. so these people that bite the hand that feeds them on this forum here, must not have been on some of other forums "not all are bad but i have found a couple before this,LOL,because this place is by far the best place for anyone who cares about their pets and its due to people like you feebo and wayne and chuck and all the other people i have become friends with here :) im just using your names because you posted this topic, so lets not give up now because of people who snap back at the answere to their quesions, so other poeple to shy to join, can come by and read it, "like" lol what was posted and feel they have somthing to offer and join and teach us somthing we dont know,an so on and so on :) my 2 cents.

[presspirate]

I try to look at the group as a whole rather than any one individual.

I guess what I'm saying is think about the other people who did use the links and learn something. ;)

I know I have learned a lot just being here this last year..

I lurked the forums for a couple of months before I actually signed up. I read posts going back a few years. I have to say that the current group of active posters are the very best.
There is so much conflicting information out there, and everyone has there own opinion. What works well for one person does not always work well for another.
Feebo, your posts are well thought out, informative, and often humorous. I always enjoy reading them. I guess what I am trying to say, is along the lines of what has been said numerous times in this thread. These forums are a group thing. when someone posts a thread, it is read by many many people. So it may be that one person started it, but it is the "groups" thread, or indeed the whole internets thread. If you or anyone else were to stop offering advice because of one or two, or even a dozen people, the whole internet would miss out.

[Feebo]

@ Snakeyjay Oh yeah I know, I`m not suggesting nobody does, I wouldn`t try and tarr them all with the same brush, of course not. I`m not trying to say that at all. It`s just the people that make very little effort that upset us all I`m talking about. I really do totally understand and agree with what you guys are saying about not chucking the towel in because of a few muppets, I really do. Unfortunatly I don`t think there`s a way we can squeeze any gratitude out of someone that has none in thier heart. I don`t think we can pump any intelligence into anyone that has no natural intelligence and we can`t make any of these people realise, appreciate and understand that the person giving the advice that you ASKED for, is a real person, a real person with a real life and all the trials that go with it. A real person that takes offence at being treated like that having taken precious time out of thier day, often at midnight, to try and help them with thier problem. A real person with years of experience in snake keeping that you just DO NOT talk to in that bloody manner! None of the problem ones seem to realise that when they ask for advice, picking and choosing what suits them instead of thinking about the snakes needs is going to upset someone so passionate and dedicated to snakes?! Is it not bloody obvious?! But there`s no way of dealing with that is there, we are just expected to put up with it, to tollerate it and treat it as normal. My time is even more precious now I`m crippled and in terrible pain every bloody day, I`m sure you`re seeing my point here? But short of just putting up with that sort of crap, what else is there to do? What on earth could anyone say to these people to make them listen? Or to make them have a bit of bloody respect? Or to make them see sense? The only thing I can possibly think of is a sticky thread for the attention of new keepers carefully explaining that when they ask us for help that we are actually taking time out of our very real lives to do something for a stranger and to be sure to respect that. Maybe explaining that if keepers of many many years experience are treated poorly when asking them to take time out of thier days, that is just not on. That it`s understandable we will point out very simple errors in husbandry because we care so very much about captive snakes. That we may well take offence at ignored ESSENTIAL advice. If we see people keeping ten snakes of mixed species in something meant for Goldfish, we may be upset at refusal to change that unacceptable situation. People can do what they please, but while you`re here and asking us for our time and effort in aiding you, you could show a little respect. Ignoring essential advice on such matters as the above is down right offensive, especially when you then proceed to ask for more advice but only things you want to hear.
Not doable? Unrealistic? Maybe... But you see my point.....

[Freebody]

I know what you mean, A reach out and smack botton for the internets is somthing somthing i have have on my wish list. lol, but untill are dreams come true, A sticky that explains just what you said doesnt sound like a bad idea thats for sure. :)

[infernalis]

After this thread runs its course, I'll compile all the most relevant bits together and post it so all can read.

One thing that we do have to remember, people will come and people will go. It's just the way it is. The forum has a core of regulars and some new users will dive right in and others will just make a couple posts and vanish..

Generally the ones that enjoy learning and advancing their skills are the ones that stick around the longest, the ones that either think they already know everything or don't want to learn anything, well they drift off rather quickly. (or become so bothersome they get banned)

[Feebo]

Oh yeah I know... There`s nothing at all wrong with that, some people just aren`t interested in becoming part of an online community. They just want answers and then off they go. The very same thing happens on an invertabrate forum I moderate on and of course we are happy to help them just as we are happy to help anyone else.
It`s a difficult one really isn`t it because as I say, you can`t teach manners to people that aren`t interested. I think it really would be useful to explain in black and white simple terms, maybe in the rules of the forum or as you the admin see fit, that in joining the forum you really must understand that people here are more than a little passionate about snakes. So passionate infact that we feel obliged to point out failings in the husbandry of new keepers. Purely out of concern for the snake. There is no jostling for position as "Best snake advisor" on this forum, there are no other motives other than our passionately caring about the health of our snakes, your snakes and all snakes. If we see that you are keeping a snake in a fish tank or you are feeding it too much or not heating it properly, we, as passionate snake keepers are absolutely bound to tell you so and to explain in great detail if need be, the reasons why it is unacceptable. This forum by it`s very nature is full of people that want to see captive snakes are properly cared for. Turning up here asking for advice should be commended. You are here because you want to know things that may solve a problem or ensure your snake has a long and healthy life right? If a snake keeper with years and years experience points out something in your husbandry that is unacceptable, we are pointing it out out of concern for the snake, for NO other reason than that. We have been there and done that, WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Snakes are unlike any other pet, there are things you just CANNOT get away with. Ignoring such essential advice on critical matters such as housing, heating, handling and breeding is GOING to OFFEND. If we know full well that what you are doing is GOING to harm your snake and you ignore our concerns and advice because you just don`t WANT to buy a suitable vivarium or you think that dangerous hot rock looks nice so you`re GOING to keep using it, you need to understand that that is going to flat out OFFEND experienced snake keepers on this forum. Wayne, do you think if you sticky the appropriate bits of this thread, that when you spot the this sort of thing happening in the future, you could issue a PM to the person with a link to this thread and a suggestion that they carefully read it in order to better understand why they have upset someone or why someone is up set with them ? It seems a certain calibre of newcomer needs it spelling out to them. What does everyone think of that?
Oh and thankyou very very much for the kind words guys, it`s proper heart warming to hear such things as have been said in this thread :) If only the actual people who this thread is all about had such appreciation there would be no problem now would there! :) Thankyou very much :) Lets see if maybe we can put something in place to try and help with this issue and maybe I won`t have to withdraw my advice from the table...

[infernalis]

Everyone here knows by now that I am keen on whatever approach keeps the peace in the community.

Generally I will PM someone if I see a problem, and of course I always welcome a PM pointing out problems.

[Feebo]

Yeeeeeah course we know that! lol That`s why you`re our favourite moderator Wayne! lol :)

[percey39]

I completely understand and agree feebos. As it is extremely frustrating seeing the same questions pop up when they were asked only a few days prior. The same advice has been given about this and yet neither people who asked the questions want to accept the answers!!
There are plenty of good people here and as Wayne has said these will be the people who stay here. I have been a member of a fair few forums and this one is by far my favourite as there is a good group of people here who are great keepers with good advice.

[Feebo]

And yet we feel shat on by these people. Not on. OK Wayne, I think that`s enough, what`s your plan on stickying that and directing the odd one of these people to it? Is that ok? :)

[infernalis]

First I want to see if I can write it into an editorial type "forum etiquette page" So rather than point any one person at it, (I feel that may offend) it can be set as a page to read (This software has an announcement feature) so when I approve new members, I can point them to it.

Sound good?

[Feebo]

It may offend yes but by this time they would have already offended others, that`s my point. As I say it`s difficult to know what to do because you can`t force people to listen. Yeah it`s good that it`ll be there for new members to see if they want to read it. I can`t help but feel that a voluntarely read thread will do little to hammer home the points made recently. I had hoped the culprets could have it spelt out to them individually once they`d ALREADY started to offend others as I have been offended. That`s not to say I don`t think it`ll do ANYTHING. It may well leave a few of my points in the minds of new members which they may well take on board. If a similar situation presents itself even after the thread has been made available to new members, what then? Thanks for agreeing to do this, I do appreciate it :)

[gonesnakee]

Didn't read alll the posts, but completely understand.
Get used to it, some folks are just idiots plain & simple, others however read replies to their posts & learn from them despite the OP potentially being an idiot.
Thus why I work with snakes not people, Mark

edit - in order for one to be offended they have to choose to be offended, best bet is to avoid those topics & people that offend you. This forum should have an ignore feature. If not its as easy as choosing to ignore, just like they choose to ignore solid advice from experienced folks ;)

[Feebo]

This forum DOES have an ignore feature! In the user CP on the left :) I think you need to read all the posts really. My initial statement was actually that I had decided to do just that. To remove myself from these peoples path and not offer any advice anymore because I`m tired of the way these people carry on. I decided that`s the last time I sit up at midnight helping ungrateful halfwits that are going to ignore sound advice from an experienced keeper because it`s not what they want to hear. They`ve decided a fish tank will do and that`s that. But yeah, have a look at the rest of the posts Mark, you`ll see what I mean...... :)

[Will0W783]

I have to say, even though I'm not nearly anywhere as experienced as a lot of you guys on here, I am starting to feel jaded myself, as I've bent over backwards to give advice a few times that just got ignored and pooed on. I also get angry when I see signs of people having bought an animal that they have absolutely NO idea how to care for and have in a totally inappropriate environment. I just try to remember how it was when I first got started not too many years ago, and at least offer a bit of advice. The good ones choose to take it and the ones that don't, don't get a followup from me. There's a core of awesome people on here that really care about snakes and love them and we all learn from each other's experiences, and I honestly value that more than money. I've become a bit less active on here as of late, in part because I'm swamped with responsibilities at school and home, but also because I've been being choosier about which posts I get involved in. I think it's a gradual process, and there will always be those morons who have a snake to scare their friends or seem all bad-a$$, and those people need a wake-up call, and fast! But there will also always be those who are in it for the animals, and those are the people that keep me coming back here. Cheers to you guys!

[gonesnakee]

Don't have too as I understand your frustration, deal with it almost daily for a decade now DOH! LOL I spend lots of time trying to help to be ignored but there are folks that lisen & many lurkers that still learn from it as well.
One canot give up, but a break now & then is definitely in order, have to or go insane LOL.
We cannot change the world but we can still try & every now & then we may just make a difference, or one would hope? LOL Cheers Mark

[Will0W783]

Mark, that's pretty much the best philosophy, I think! I have learned an awful lot from you over my time here, and I'm still learning and growing as a herper.

[gonesnakee]

Did I already state I work with snakes because people tend to just piss me off? :o LOL Mark
P.S. I can always trust my snakes to be snakes & they don't sass back ever either! ;)

[infernalis]

P.S. I can always trust my snakes to be snakes & they don't sass back ever either! ;)


Mine never do either, they just bite and musk.

[Will0W783]

Hahaha, I just got nailed by a boa that has never even hissed at me yesterday, he was sassin' me big time! I had company over, my friend Bob and his friend Shawn from The Viper's House. They were looking at all my snakes and I pull out my male hypo possible jungle boa and he just whams me on the hand..lol. They always act up when company is over.
But you can trust them to be snakes. They are so much simpler than people and never have ulterior motives. Just: feed me, keep me warm, give me another snake to boink, feed me, keep me warm, etc...lol.

[gonesnakee]

Mine never make fun of me either & they always laugh at my jokes (on the inside ;)) Mark

[Feebo]

Boink LOL Yeah I totally agree with you on the snake front :)

[percey39]

Don't have too as I understand your frustration, deal with it almost daily for a decade now DOH! LOL I spend lots of time trying to help to be ignored but there are folks that lisen & many lurkers that still learn from it as well.
One canot give up, but a break now & then is definitely in order, have to or go insane LOL.
We cannot change the world but we can still try & every now & then we may just make a difference, or one would hope? LOL Cheers Mark

Im taking your advice on this Mark and im going to stop trying to help others for a while, especially those who i deem in my mind are not open for it in the first place. Its very frustrating.

[Reptile_Reptile]

ok dude the whole fish tank thing i misunderstood and if you look at the thread i apologized and then i asked for specs on a new kind a suitable tank (my apology for the part of the rant that came from one of our conversations)

[Reptile_Reptile]

This forum DOES have an ignore feature! In the user CP on the left :) I think you need to read all the posts really. My initial statement was actually that I had decided to do just that. To remove myself from these peoples path and not offer any advice anymore because I`m tired of the way these people carry on. I decided that`s the last time I sit up at midnight helping ungrateful halfwits that are going to ignore sound advice from an experienced keeper because it`s not what they want to hear. They`ve decided a fish tank will do and that`s that. But yeah, have a look at the rest of the posts Mark, you`ll see what I mean...... :)
man your're really just kicking my *** with this tank thing. i have alreaady decided to change i just need to gather the money first. untill then im doing the best i can

[percey39]

This thread has been around for week or more. There has been a run with a fair few people dismissing advice for many different things.

[Reptile_Reptile]

This thread has been around for week or more. There has been a run with a fair few people dismissing advice for many different things.
i very recently had a discussion with him where i mistook what he said and just disregarded him about changing my habitat from a 10gal and a 20long to custom made snake boxes i thought he was just being a jerk and calling me a noob (not really saying that but implication was falsely felt) because i dont have a custom tank

[Feebo]

And you were very wrong. I`m not in the business of arguing on the internet, I flat refuse to do that with anyone. That is why I didn`y continue to press my point after you`d been so rude to me. I simply started this thread in order to discuss the matter (generally) with my friends and fellow experienced herpers. Unfortunaly this sort of thing happens far too often to all of us. You have to realise that we/I sit up sometimes at 2am dispensing information and helping people with snakes. We have made it a mission to try and undo this flood of useless information that is on the net. When someone like you (on that day, I`m not generalising your character here) comes along and starts treating us the way you treated me that day, we`re bound to get a little upset now aren`t we? Your treatment of me that day was the final straw of many such events as that and I have removed myself from the role of free advice dispenser/helper/fixer of problems and undoer of damage. I have many years of experience with snakes and I`m more than happy for new snake keepers to benefit from it. But when I start getting treated like some sort of joker, well now that`s just not on is it. I need not make any more points on the matter because this thread contains everything I have to say, please give it a read and try to take on board at least some of what I say. Just try and put yourself in my position. I don`t, I litterally don`t, have time in my life, for the sort of crap I`ve been foolishly putting up with while trying to HELP newcomers to the snake keeping hobby. (Notice the word "Noob" doesn`t appear in my text, that is a childish schoolyard attitude toward newcomers that I am VERY much above.) Just try and have a little, no, a LOT more respect for the experienced herpers that are rising to the call when you ASK for help, because unfortunaly, as I say, that was the last straw for me and I am currently not helping anyone out because of this sort of attitude and treatment of us herpers. We don`t get paid for this, we do it in our own time, it is quite litterally time OUT OF OUR LIVES to help you out. Put all of your assumtions about noobism aside, we don`t care about any of that crap. WE CARE ABOUT THE CAPTIVE CARE AND WELLBEING OF SNAKES and that is IT.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........

[infernalis]

man your're really just kicking my *** with this tank thing. i have alreaady decided to change i just need to gather the money first. untill then im doing the best i can

May I point out something here guys...

Feebo posted this thread on September 26

Reptile - Your join date was October 5

That alone should make it very clear that someone else had upset Feebo the day that post got made ;)

[Reptile_Reptile]

May I point out something here guys...

Feebo posted this thread on September 26

Reptile - Your join date was October 5

That alone should make it very clear that someone else had upset Feebo the day that post got made ;) if you read his last post he says what i did, did push him over.

[Reptile_Reptile]

And you were very wrong. I`m not in the business of arguing on the internet, I flat refuse to do that with anyone. That is why I didn`y continue to press my point after you`d been so rude to me. I simply started this thread in order to discuss the matter (generally) with my friends and fellow experienced herpers. Unfortunaly this sort of thing happens far too often to all of us. You have to realise that we/I sit up sometimes at 2am dispensing information and helping people with snakes. We have made it a mission to try and undo this flood of useless information that is on the net. When someone like you (on that day, I`m not generalising your character here) comes along and starts treating us the way you treated me that day, we`re bound to get a little upset now aren`t we? Your treatment of me that day was the final straw of many such events as that and I have removed myself from the role of free advice dispenser/helper/fixer of problems and undoer of damage. I have many years of experience with snakes and I`m more than happy for new snake keepers to benefit from it. But when I start getting treated like some sort of joker, well now that`s just not on is it. I need not make any more points on the matter because this thread contains everything I have to say, please give it a read and try to take on board at least some of what I say. Just try and put yourself in my position. I don`t, I litterally don`t, have time in my life, for the sort of crap I`ve been foolishly putting up with while trying to HELP newcomers to the snake keeping hobby. (Notice the word "Noob" doesn`t appear in my text, that is a childish schoolyard attitude toward newcomers that I am VERY much above.) Just try and have a little, no, a LOT more respect for the experienced herpers that are rising to the call when you ASK for help, because unfortunaly, as I say, that was the last straw for me and I am currently not helping anyone out because of this sort of attitude and treatment of us herpers. We don`t get paid for this, we do it in our own time, it is quite litterally time OUT OF OUR LIVES to help you out. Put all of your assumtions about noobism aside, we don`t care about any of that crap. WE CARE ABOUT THE CAPTIVE CARE AND WELLBEING OF SNAKES and that is IT.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........... Feebo i am ridiculously sorry i am young and very prone to mistakes and i hope that i can undue any disrespect i personally have caused you or anyone (i know i haven't been the easiest to get along with at times already). i did read this whole thread and many things have come into perspective since then. i wish to absorb any and all information you and all the other snake breeders/handlers/collectors w/ experience put out there and i promise to cherish any cernals of information you decide to share. i hope you forgive my folly and i hope that you continue to give your much valued information. ty for listening (lol or just reading my whole post for that matter)

[Feebo]

Yeah I did say it was you didn`t I, Infernalis`s dates have left me a little confused but in any case, as I say it`s a general thing. I`m not "going after" any particular person here anyway, as I say in the first bit of the thread. Thanks for your post and your understanding.... :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

(K) = Karma. Be nice, or auntie Karma will kick your butt! (i think you recognize this and i have decided to follow its path for a while, a friend got me into it)

[marvelfreak]

Feebo i noticed seen you started this thread that she hasn't posted once.

[Feebo]

Can you put a link to that thread here please Marvel? It was a she was it? Actually lets have a link to Reptile Reptile`s thread in question aswell. So it WASN`T you that was the final straw Reptile Reptile! It was who ever this girl is, and SHE was the one that was rude to me, not you. Sorry about that... I`ve just had a look through all of your posts and I can`t actually find a single instance where I even advised you about anything at all?! All I can find is the yawning python and me congratulating you for going to the vet when it was needed.... Maybe you saw this thread and just presumed it was about you? I didn`t really register the persons name when it happened, it was just another instance of the same old thing happening as a load of others have agreed with. Yeah Chuck I saw she had buggered off almost immedeatly. There`s one person that will fit in just fine on one of the rubbish forums that`s full of trolls i think.......

[Reptile_Reptile]

oh it was aaron s. and he was a punk about it. sorry febo for putting u on spot like that.
if you want to know how not to help someone new and to really just make them defensive learn from aron s on this thread
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/84369-newb-status-2.html

[Freebody]

aaron s does have a way to make you feel special lol but he is a knoledgable person which also does this out of the kindness of his heart for free as well, so my advise is to just read what hes got to say, because its is good info, and just skim past the stuff that make you feel all warm inside :)

[Reptile_Reptile]

aaron s does have a way to make you feel special lol but he is a knoledgable person which also does this out of the kindness of his heart for free as well, so my advise is to just read what hes got to say, because its is good info, and just skim past the stuff that make you feel all warm inside :) the only problem i have with this thread is the oh i give my info for free. free this free that so what if you didnt want to share info then why are you on a forum u know become a herpetologist and get paid for what you know on snakes. it just bothers me when people say they do things for free when compensation is non existent on a forum (usually) and most everyone knows that. baby rant over

[infernalis]

. it just bothers me when people say they do things for free when compensation is non existent on a forum (usually) and most everyone knows that. baby rant over


Want to talk about compensation... The servers and web sites cost quite a bit of money to get this free information to you. ;)

[Freebody]

the only problem i have with this thread is the oh i give my info for free. free this free that so what if you didnt want to share info then why are you on a forum u know become a herpetologist and get paid for what you know on snakes. it just bothers me when people say they do things for free when compensation is non existent on a forum (usually) and most everyone knows that. baby rant over
I for one have learned in the few years i have been on this earth, it is Always a bad idea to bit the hand that feed you. I for one am always gratefull for any help anyone is willing to give me and have nothing but respect and thoughts of good karma for that person/s who wishes to go out of their way to help somone. I live in a very cut thoat place, that if you not carfull you will get jumped robbed and killed, everyone hear is out to rip you off or get paid for info about somthing you have that could be worth money to somone willing to take it,and no one hear will help you at all, in no way shape form or fasion, so when people like the people hear are so kind hearted to me, i am very happy to acept andy thing to have to offer with open arms. in my honest opinion, you always take for granted the things you have until you no longer have them. my mini rant <

[Feebo]

LOL Here here! J.R., I`m afraid we`re all just so very passionate about the wellbeing of captive snakes that we can barely contain ourselves when we see husbandry practices that we know from years of experience aren`t in the best interest of the snake. Be it in the long run or the short term. As you know I`m totally fed up with getting involved in these sort of situations but for what its worth, regardless of any animosity, regardless of egos and regardless of anyone sounding a bit short in thier posts. He is right. Snakes and fish tanks do not mix well AT ALL and by the time you come to see that as the truth it is, the damage is already done. I would also very very highly recommend that you get your snake/snakes into plastic or wooden vivariums as soon as humanly possible. If I could just use a metephorical example here... If you were to keep a fish in a bowl of water and add a single drop of vinegar to that water each month, that fish may well look absolutely fine. Maybe even for ages and ages (You see where I`m going with this don`t you...) But you know that fish would eventually die right? So you would tell someone like maybe an alien or child or something "you really don`t want to do that!" That fish need not get ill, or die. I`m sure you see my point mate. I promise you, sincerely, fish tanks do snakes damage and even kill them. Even if it seems fine right now. Aaron has probably explained this to people as many times as I have, and he sounds just as irritated by new keepers ignoring the experienced words of us long term keepers as I am. Try to appreciate that mate, honestly we mean no malice or harm, we are purely concerned about snakes and we know our stuff back to front and inside out.

[Feebo]

Freebody, If, at the end of my life I am asked "what was the most important lesson you learned in life?" It would be just that :) You don`t know what you`ve got until you lose it....

[Reptile_Reptile]

I for one have learned in the few years i have been on this earth, it is Always a bad idea to bit the hand that feed you. I for one am always gratefull for any help anyone is willing to give me and have nothing but respect and thoughts of good karma for that person/s who wishes to go out of their way to help somone. I live in a very cut thoat place, that if you not carfull you will get jumped robbed and killed, everyone hear is out to rip you off or get paid for info about somthing you have that could be worth money to somone willing to take it,and no one hear will help you at all, in no way shape form or fasion, so when people like the people hear are so kind hearted to me, i am very happy to acept andy thing to have to offer with open arms. in my honest opinion, you always take for granted the things you have until you no longer have them. my mini rant <
me too i just dont want to be made to feel bad because you (in general not you in specific) complain about doing things for free. if your going to complain that you do it for free then dont do it cause you obviously dont enjoy it. i do not want to feel like a jerk cause you feel like something you did for free was worth money and want to complain about it

[Reptile_Reptile]

LOL Here here! J.R., I`m afraid we`re all just so very passionate about the wellbeing of captive snakes that we can barely contain ourselves when we see husbandry practices that we know from years of experience aren`t in the best interest of the snake. Be it in the long run or the short term. As you know I`m totally fed up with getting involved in these sort of situations but for what its worth, regardless of any animosity, regardless of egos and regardless of anyone sounding a bit short in thier posts. He is right. Snakes and fish tanks do not mix well AT ALL and by the time you come to see that as the truth it is, the damage is already done. I would also very very highly recommend that you get your snake/snakes into plastic or wooden vivariums as soon as humanly possible. If I could just use a metephorical example here... If you were to keep a fish in a bowl of water and add a single drop of vinegar to that water each month, that fish may well look absolutely fine. Maybe even for ages and ages (You see where I`m going with this don`t you...) But you know that fish would eventually die right? So you would tell someone like maybe an alien or child or something "you really don`t want to do that!" That fish need not get ill, or die. I`m sure you see my point mate. I promise you, sincerely, fish tanks do snakes damage and even kill them. Even if it seems fine right now. Aaron has probably explained this to people as many times as I have, and he sounds just as irritated by new keepers ignoring the experienced words of us long term keepers as I am. Try to appreciate that mate, honestly we mean no malice or harm, we are purely concerned about snakes and we know our stuff back to front and inside out.
you know just my imput here next time explain the trickle effect thing cause i had no idea im actually working on new vivs you can see my various threads on different ideas

[marvelfreak]

Can you put a link to that thread here please Marvel? It was a she was it? Actually lets have a link to Reptile Reptile`s thread in question aswell. So it WASN`T you that was the final straw Reptile Reptile! It was who ever this girl is, and SHE was the one that was rude to me, not you. Sorry about that... I`ve just had a look through all of your posts and I can`t actually find a single instance where I even advised you about anything at all?! All I can find is the yawning python and me congratulating you for going to the vet when it was needed.... Maybe you saw this thread and just presumed it was about you? I didn`t really register the persons name when it happened, it was just another instance of the same old thing happening as a load of others have agreed with. Yeah Chuck I saw she had buggered off almost immedeatly. There`s one person that will fit in just fine on one of the rubbish forums that`s full of trolls i think.......
This was the one i believe that led up to this thread.(final straw of rude people) This was not the first time some one was rude to Feebo either. When all he trying to do is help.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-python-forum/84279-i-m-sure-people-sick-these-kinds-threads-escaped-carpet-python.html

[presspirate]

I for one, have received advice from Feebo, and I do appreciate it. His advice usually comes with a bit of wit and humor. Which I always enjoy. (Even though he comes from a backwards country.;) )

[Feebo]

The cheeky hillbilly is right :)

J.R., if this is going to degenerate into an argument I`ll just stop posting, lets just understand that here. Listen very carefully ok, if if don`t understand it when I tell you very carefully, then you`ll never understand and I can only put that down to your tender years. I love helping people with thier new found snake hobby. What I don`t like is being treated with disrespect or utter contempt. My mention of tha fact we do this for free is merley an attemot to make you understand just what you have.I have tried, in vain, to explain this before to people that treat us disrespectfully. You have our years of experience and full attention to draw on, you don`t have to pay us, WE ARE ALL MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT FOR FREE. But (and here`s my point, pay attention...) But, why would we wish to continue doing it if we are constantly faced with this attitude? Why would we sit up at all hours helping people with thier problems and explaining to them how to do things properly if we just get spoken to the way you are starting to talk now? Why would anyone want to put up with that? That makes us want to say well you know what? Sod it I can`t be arsed helping an ungrateful, cheeky, argumentative, disrespectful person. But then you have to also understand that that in itself puts us in a VERY difficult situation because at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, it`s not YOU that we care about. It`s the snake you have put yourself in charge of. We see people doing all sorts of silly things with snakes because they just don`t know any better. We try to help out, we are actually ASKED to help out, but if they don`t want to hear "fish tanks are VERY bad for snakes" because they just don`t want to buy a proper VIVARIUM (ESSENTIAL FOR SNAKES) They are just rude, or they just ignore us BUT THEN continue to expect us to help with other things!! Well that just drives us up the bloody wall when we know from the experience we have over the years, that a fish tank is VERY bad for snakes. Fish tanks are for fish. Snakes need a VIVARIUM. J.R..... Mate, please, pretty please with sugar on top, just try to understand that. Put all your annoyances aside, all your presumtions about our motives aside, and understand that we only care about the care and wellbeing of captive snakes and the sort of attitudes we encounter all too often in our collective quest to educate and inform really don`t help matters at all. That is why this thread was started. It was unfortunatly started to inform my fellow experienced herper friends that I have had enough of being treated like crap, I have had enough of arguing! I have had enough of trying to compete with the attitudes of some of the new keepers that only care about themselves and not the poor snake who`s very life depends on thier decision making! If you can`t see my point mate after the reams and reams of text in this thread explaining it time and again in simpler and simpler terms, you never will. This thread isn`t for you to come in and start telling me what I should and shouldn`t be feeling anyway mate to be honest. I`ve started it to say i`ve had enough of arguing and failing to get through to people that just don`t want to listen, and here I am, in that very thread, arguing with someone that doen`t want to listen! I give up mate, I no longer care what you do. I`ve been foolish to spend so much of my precious time trying to help and being treated like sh*t anyway. Do what you want, keep it in a fish tank, keep it in an old fuel tank, whatever you want. I no longer argue with lost causes such as people that refuse to get a snake out of a fish tank. You can all learn the hard way just as kids need to learn the hard way, it`s just such a terrible shame that snakes need to suffer because so many new keepers refuse to listen to experience when entering the hobby. I give up arguing with that sort of ignorance and I give up arguing with you. There`s another lesson in life, never argue with the ignorant, they`ll drag you down to thier own level and beat you on experience.

[percey39]

\ never argue with the ignorant, they`ll drag you down to thier own level and beat you on experience.
Love that one its all to true!!

[marvelfreak]

LMAO 10638 So so very true. Sometime they beat so bad with experience it's like a 10639

[Freebody]

LOL its so true.

[Reptile_Reptile]

The cheeky hillbilly is right :)

J.R., if this is going to degenerate into an argument I`ll just stop posting, lets just understand that here. Listen very carefully ok, if if don`t understand it when I tell you very carefully, then you`ll never understand and I can only put that down to your tender years. I love helping people with thier new found snake hobby. What I don`t like is being treated with disrespect or utter contempt. My mention of tha fact we do this for free is merley an attemot to make you understand just what you have.I have tried, in vain, to explain this before to people that treat us disrespectfully. You have our years of experience and full attention to draw on, you don`t have to pay us, WE ARE ALL MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT FOR FREE. But (and here`s my point, pay attention...) But, why would we wish to continue doing it if we are constantly faced with this attitude? Why would we sit up at all hours helping people with thier problems and explaining to them how to do things properly if we just get spoken to the way you are starting to talk now? Why would anyone want to put up with that? That makes us want to say well you know what? Sod it I can`t be arsed helping an ungrateful, cheeky, argumentative, disrespectful person. But then you have to also understand that that in itself puts us in a VERY difficult situation because at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, it`s not YOU that we care about. It`s the snake you have put yourself in charge of. We see people doing all sorts of silly things with snakes because they just don`t know any better. We try to help out, we are actually ASKED to help out, but if they don`t want to hear "fish tanks are VERY bad for snakes" because they just don`t want to buy a proper VIVARIUM (ESSENTIAL FOR SNAKES) They are just rude, or they just ignore us BUT THEN continue to expect us to help with other things!! Well that just drives us up the bloody wall when we know from the experience we have over the years, that a fish tank is VERY bad for snakes. Fish tanks are for fish. Snakes need a VIVARIUM. J.R..... Mate, please, pretty please with sugar on top, just try to understand that. Put all your annoyances aside, all your presumtions about our motives aside, and understand that we only care about the care and wellbeing of captive snakes and the sort of attitudes we encounter all too often in our collective quest to educate and inform really don`t help matters at all. That is why this thread was started. It was unfortunatly started to inform my fellow experienced herper friends that I have had enough of being treated like crap, I have had enough of arguing! I have had enough of trying to compete with the attitudes of some of the new keepers that only care about themselves and not the poor snake who`s very life depends on thier decision making! If you can`t see my point mate after the reams and reams of text in this thread explaining it time and again in simpler and simpler terms, you never will. This thread isn`t for you to come in and start telling me what I should and shouldn`t be feeling anyway mate to be honest. I`ve started it to say i`ve had enough of arguing and failing to get through to people that just don`t want to listen, and here I am, in that very thread, arguing with someone that doen`t want to listen! I give up mate, I no longer care what you do. I`ve been foolish to spend so much of my precious time trying to help and being treated like sh*t anyway. Do what you want, keep it in a fish tank, keep it in an old fuel tank, whatever you want. I no longer argue with lost causes such as people that refuse to get a snake out of a fish tank. You can all learn the hard way just as kids need to learn the hard way, it`s just such a terrible shame that snakes need to suffer because so many new keepers refuse to listen to experience when entering the hobby. I give up arguing with that sort of ignorance and I give up arguing with you. There`s another lesson in life, never argue with the ignorant, they`ll drag you down to thier own level and beat you on experience.
<--- not arguing (at least not trying) and... you know what nvm idc i'm doing my best to learn and live. but dont give mate when you give up they've all won anyways. (this is an edit) and i do understand if you poke around the forum im all over the place trying to find out what i need

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/84400-new-enclosures.html

im past that point of ignorance i had a book that told me to do it so i did now im paying the price and so are my snakes. my time of struggling against your advice and that of others came to an end when i first read this thread my rant was one of a stressed me who got irked cause of previously aforementioned (for free rant) this forum already has a spot in my heart and i plan on staying and learning for quite a while if not indefinitely

[presspirate]

The cheeky hillbilly is right :)

:crazy: LOL I resemble that remark.

Really, it's not a game of giving up and letting people win. It's more a matter of etiquette. You come on the forums and ask for advice. People willingly give you advice, then you turn around and tell them, that the advice they have given you is s***. Well if you are not going to take, or even consider taking the advice, just say thank you and go away.

[Feebo]

The cheeky Hillbilly is right again :)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/feebix/hillbilly-Copy.jpg Being as I`m no longer willing to entertain this shash I think the "aforementioned" Hillbilly can speak for me from this point. He seems a wise fellow, if a bit dribbly...

[infernalis]

Bottom line is this.....

People are different, people have different sets of values.. Manners, etc..

One thing that we all need to realize is that in most cases the interest in reptiles may very well be the only common ground we share.

Many of us know it's polite to say "thank you" when someone offers assistance, yet some people do not.

We all know that sometimes we may say to someone "you are doing that wrong" and sometimes the reply will be "great, Tell me how, thanks!" other times the reply will be "no I'm not" or "shut up" or "bubba does it this way" and then there will always be the silent type who just say nothing.

One should never expect gratitude, Enjoy it when it does happen, but forget about it if it does not. Move on and stay constructive.

Something I have seen on too many forums is all the experienced people bonding into a tight group and then a new person comes along and shares different views, was raised with a different set of manners or just asks a question that touches on a sore subject, suddenly the "vets" deem the "noob" unworthy and all hell breaks loose.

Can we please not allow our forum to sink down to that level?

Sure if those new people would spend a while reading the forum, they would save a lot of unnecessary frustration for all involved (how many times does the same questions pop up that was just answered 2 days ago?) but that is never going to happen on any forum or group that is open to the public.

Big age differences also seem to play a role in all of this too. We have to remember that sometimes there may be a generation gap interfering with good communication.

So what it all comes down to is we have to offer our assistance because we want to and never expect any form of gratitude or acknowledgment and then when it does happen it will be a pleasant surprise. ;)

[presspirate]

Thanks Feebs, You got a pretty mouf boy.:crazy:

[Lankyrob]

Wayne, i hope people will take notice of your words and that the site can continue to offer support and advice to those that need and want it.

A hell of a lot of todays society want to take the easy route and will post questions rather than search first as then the answer comes to them with little effort. There are enough of us here that if a question is posted more then once the answers can be given without making the op feel small or embarassed for asking.

Here's to this helpful community thriving into the future and always being somewhere that ANYONE can come and ask questions with no repurcussions.

[Feebo]

Wayne I can`t stand that tight nit ganging up crap and I resent any insinuation that I may think it a good idea or might not realise that that`s what I am myself. I also fully realise that people might be polite or people might not be polite, I`ve been around for long enough to know that. My original point, as I seem to be having to repeat a lot, is that I`m just fed up with the people that are flat out RUDE. Not that they don`t sound greatful enough, not at all. It`s that some of them are rude to the point of coming across hostile. My other point was that I`m fed up with experience being ignored at the snakes cost. I`ve written half a book on the subject in this thread already and I still have to repeat myself! I put this to bed ages ago. I just started this thread, said I`d had enough and that was the end of it. Until I get someone trying to tell me my points aren`t valid and I should do this and do that. It seems I can`t even give up in peace. You don`t honestly think I don`t WANT to help surely? To be honest the only reason I`m still here is because I have a few friends I`d miss. I`m that fed up with this. The fact you don`t seem to understand my feeling on this to the point you think you need to spell all that gratitude stuff to me just makes me feel like all you`re seeing is an irate Feebo with messed up ideas about how people should behaive. I don`t care. I stepped back for a reason a reason I`ve repeated over and over again in this thread. That was the end of it. I`ve just had it. No big issue is it.. . There`s bugger all anyone could ever do to "solve" the problem because you can`t change people. That`s why I decided to pack in spending my time helping people. If I`m just going to get told that was unjust or that is flawed thinking Feebo well I`ll just leave. Simple. I doubt more than four people would care anyway. Can`t we just leave it there for fish and chips sake!? I`m as entiltled to my opinions as anyone else.... Sheeesh! If I was into all that gang up on the idiot that thinks he knows it all after two minutes there would have been a load of drama from me just recently don`t you think? I kept my mouth shut about a whole load of crap because I`m more of a gentlemen than that.

[Reptile_Reptile]

Wayne I can`t stand that tight nit ganging up crap and I resent any insinuation that I may think it a good idea or might not realise that that`s what I am myself. I also fully realise that people might be polite or people might not be polite, I`ve been around for long enough to know that. My original point, as I seem to be having to repeat a lot, is that I`m just fed up with the people that are flat out RUDE. Not that they don`t sound greatful enough, not at all. It`s that some of them are rude to the point of coming across hostile. My other point was that I`m fed up with experience being ignored at the snakes cost. I`ve written half a book on the subject in this thread already and I still have to repeat myself! I put this to bed ages ago. I just started this thread, said I`d had enough and that was the end of it. Until I get someone trying to tell me my points aren`t valid and I should do this and do that. It seems I can`t even give up in peace. You don`t honestly think I don`t WANT to help surely? To be honest the only reason I`m still here is because I have a few friends I`d miss. I`m that fed up with this. The fact you don`t seem to understand my feeling on this to the point you think you need to spell all that gratitude stuff to me just makes me feel like all you`re seeing is an irate Feebo with messed up ideas about how people should behaive. I don`t care. I stepped back for a reason a reason I`ve repeated over and over again in this thread. That was the end of it. I`ve just had it. No big issue is it.. . There`s bugger all anyone could ever do to "solve" the problem because you can`t change people. That`s why I decided to pack in spending my time helping people. If I`m just going to get told that was unjust or that is flawed thinking Feebo well I`ll just leave. Simple. I doubt more than four people would care anyway. Can`t we just leave it there for fish and chips sake!? I`m as entiltled to my opinions as anyone else.... Sheeesh! If I was into all that gang up on the idiot that thinks he knows it all after two minutes there would have been a load of drama from me just recently don`t you think? I kept my mouth shut about a whole load of crap because I`m more of a gentlemen than that.

i love you feebo in a totally heterosexual sort of way that can only come thru barely knowing someone on the internet and just deciding that you respect them ^_^ btw i just bought a crap load of stuff for my snakes

[marvelfreak]

I would miss have you around Feebo. Your one of my favorite people on here. Some of the cool thread on here are ones you started.

I believe Wanye understands what your saying he just explain the other side of the coin. Without offending anyone he trying to do his job and keep the peace.

I mean know disrespect to you or anyone else. You along with many of us have made your point. IMO it time to let all this negativity go and move on.

[Feebo]

It certainly is me `ol Chuckster :) I was hoping that myself...... Ages ago!! lol
Ere Pressy lad, I`m going to need to see you now! lol Does that dribbly guy actually look a bit like you then? lol He gat a reeeel perty meeowth aint ee! Say weeeeeeeek !

[infernalis]

Feebo sorry if you though I targeted you. That long drawn out post was meant as a general read for everyone.

Even though I was tempted more than once to close this thread down, it would take away the opportunity to air out the laundry.

[Feebo]

Aah I`m just getting increasingly sensitive the more it goes on.. Soz. I just want to do what I want to do and be left alone regarding it, that`s all. As you say we`re all different, with varying levels of tollerance and I`ve just got too much do deal with on a daily basis to be entertaining some of these silly little gibbons. Anyway, I`ve got plenty to offer the right people, I`ll just be very selective who`s problems I involve myself with Easy. :)

[presspirate]

It certainly is me `ol Chuckster :) I was hoping that myself...... Ages ago!! lol
Ere Pressy lad, I`m going to need to see you now! lol Does that dribbly guy actually look a bit like you then? lol He gat a reeeel perty meeowth aint ee! Say weeeeeeeek !
:yes:squeal for me Piggy!:yes: Everybody has seen Deliverance. Horrible movie.:no: No, I don't look quite like the dribbly guy. There's a pic of me here:http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/31132-face-name-get-know-your-members-20.html

FTW I'd miss you as well if you just popped off. Always enjoy your posts and videos. I hope you make more!

[Reptile_Reptile]

good idea. i know i didnt start this thread and i'm fairly new but it's my suggestion to close this thread, make a summary of all things and involve them in the guidelines sticky thread or to make a new one for this problem specifically. this thread just seems to be going over the same problems again and again and its just annoying people and causing tension among valued(im sure) members. only a suggestion but i feel a good one maybe even save this thread and just keep it around as a reminder to all who were involved in it to keep with what they were saying too.

[Feebo]

As I said on the first page yes.

[Reptile_Reptile]

so two are in agreement

maybe infernalis this should be one of the daily polls??? forum related and kinda a group thing

[Feebo]

It was agreed that this thread would be checked by Infernalis and the relevant material be stickied. That was agreed on the first page.....

[Reptile_Reptile]

It was agreed that this thread would be checked by Infernalis and the relevant material be stickied. That was agreed on the first page.....
-_- i know lol i read it i thought you and i were agreeing on making this thread sticky this thread in particular so relevant members can use it as a reference but i guess thats been hashed to. guess i'm just giving the thought a bump lol

[infernalis]

Ok guys, is it time to wrap up and close this so I can shave out what were keeping?

[Feebo]

Yep :) Cheers Wayne...

[infernalis]

Closed as agreed upon..