cage sizes

[krrc]

I am going to have a 45-50 gallon cage empty in the next month most likely and I want to get a bp. I had one before but it what WC and I dident know, we took it back. but I asked some people in the chat room and they said the snake would feel unsafe in such a large cage (i'm assumeing I would buy a baby) I dont understand this b/c in the wild they ovouisly have lots more room than any cage if they desire. I could create an elabrate basking spot with climbing branches and mutipule hides if needed. arent the hides enough to make it feel sucure?

[royal]

I am in the same predicament, so if anyone reading this could help us out it would be appreciated. By the way krrc, if we figure out the cage is too big, one thing you could do is go to your local glass shop with the exact dimensions of your cage and get a piece of glass cut to act as a divider and secure it in your cage with silicon(which would get cut out later when the snake is bigger) then use the extra space as a "shed" for .. .. haha .. snake stuff?
P.S. Just make sure you talk to the glass shop to figure out the best stuff to use to secure the glass so it doesnt tip over, AND so that it can still be taken out later

[Pythonian]

the perfect enclosure for a baby bp would be a 10g. Then once it gets to big for it to stretch it'self out fully long-ways. Then go to a 20G Long. the 45G - 55G are for adults. They like to be in tight enclosed spaces.

Mike

[krrc]

ok but why cant that tight inclosed space be the hide box and when it wants to rome around freely then it can.

[Jeff_Favelle]

How often in the wild do you think a baby Ball Python come's out and "roams"? The fact that the adults are pretty much 70% fossorial in nature might go a long way to saying what the babies are.

Small Rubbermaid for a baby Ball until 6 months of age (2 years if you feed it like most people do).

[krrc]

like most people do? this isent a question of should I go out and spend 150 dollars on a big tank I already got it. at least I'm gonna devide the tank up but so far no one has conviced me the need to.

[rsquared]

All you need is room enough for a warm hide, a cool hide, a water dish and a decoration. It also depends on if the cage is high or long/wide. Set up your tank so that it's just long enough for him to stretch out if he wants to, and fit everything in between. Enjoy your snake!

[Corey Woods]

KRRC,

If you don't want to take anyones advice then why are you asking for it? If you think they will do good in a huge enclosure and don't want to take the advice from experienced keepers/breeders on this forum then do your own thing.....they are your snakes.

Corey

[krrc]

souldent expericed people be able to back up what they say? I have 5 years or experince my self which may not be nearly as much as a lot of you. I want your info and I apprcate it but tell me why I have also read in many care sheets what your saying. I was talking with a reptile pet store owner (it's a good store) that told me the only problem she saw was catching the mice but I'm going to pre kill them anyways.

[marisa]

Problem is there is only experiences from advanced/long time keepers. So all people can give you is that.

If you want to put a hatchling ball python in a 50 gallon tank, go ahead....maybe you won't have problems, but from the advice on this forum and almost any other forum, you will most likely have some issues, and baby balls (and other baby snakes) like security of the smaller tank. A hide box is security but the snake needs to feel secure enough to come out and drink, to come out and eat, to come out and shed, etc. And this is not always provided in a larger tank and they feel too "open"...... in smaller tanks and rubbermaids the snake feels safe enough and calm enough to go about its normal activity, drinking, eating etc. Without the fear of coming out in the "open" and being stressed out by this. Its not a "scientific" thing (well obviously the reasons behind it are) its a what has worked for many years for many people thing.

If you want to do what you want to do then do it, but don't be dissapointed when everyone on the forum or other forums tells you that the method you choose is not the best one. It just might not be. Period. Its not a matter or proving it one way or another. Its a matter of what works and what doesn't. Of course you get your individuals that may never be stressed in that situation, but from experience these people are telling you that is normally not the case at all. If you dont agree, that's fine. Do what you wish as Corey said. And good luck! :)

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

One thing, if the pet store owner said that "the only problem would be catching the mice", I wouldn't trust a word he says. Some people just like to SOUND like they know what they're talking about.

What Jeff said is true. He's kept and bred snakes for a while now and he knows what works. Also, take Corey's advice. You asked the question, got the answer and now are going to do what you would have done in the first place? Oh well, what can we say?

This is a common question and you were given the common answer straight from the horse's mouth, so do what you will.

Good luck to you and your snake.;)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Corey's right man, but I never wanted to come off sounding bad or that I didn't want to help you, so I'll try my best to give you some reasoning. It might be hard because I have an idea that you already came here with the idea that your big tank would suffice and you just wanted reassurance. And when Corey and myself disagreed, you didn't like that. Well, that's not going to help anybody learn. Its funny, because I learned a long time ago that the only way for a hard-headed guy like me to learn is to basically think everything I know is crap (ha ha, sometimes it sure seems that way!). And when people tell me stuff and give me advice, I have one of two options: 1) If it sounds good, then they are probably right and I'm wrong. or 2) If it sounds crappier than my ideas/opinions, I screw it and keep going status quo until someone smarter tells me otherwise.

Anyway, I ramble. Ball Pythons are thigmorphic (is that the sp Coery? I forgot the exact word.). It basically means that they feel secure in tiny spots. You know, not just under cover, but feeling textures and weight on their backs. Ever notice how flat and skinny a Ball can get? There's reasons for that and they are evolutionary and are a big part of their behaviour. But is doesn't end there. You see, the hides of Ball Pythons aren't just hides. They are a home. They supply everything, just like a home should. Food, thermoregulation, security, etc etc etc. Its all usually supplied within this burrow/crack/crevice/root-hole etc etc. A big cage is useless to a small Ball Python. Believe me (and Corey), I've tried. They don't do so well in them. That doesn't mean it will die the instant you put it in a big cage. But if you want that thing bullet-proof, I'd put it in a small, semi-humid Rubbermaid, with a clay pot, aspen chips, a 90-95F warm spot (4x6 inches), a 75-80F cool end (containing the SMALL water dish) and not terribly bright, light-wise. That's the perfect cage for a small Ball Python. I know its not what you wanted to hear as you had your mind already set to put it in the big cage, but those are the facts, at least from my experience. It will however, be ready for the big cage after 6 months of great eating. That's not so long to wait.


We wish you the best of luck, honestly.

[krrc]

ok thanks, (thats exsactly what I wanted and it makes perfect sence to me now. I'm not a big fan of taking peoples words for it when it comes to the life of an animal so I pretty much wanna know the why about everything) but what is a small rubbermaid when I see a small rubbermaid I see a size that would fit small children shoes in maybe a foot long if that. would that be right? I really have no Idea how they classafy sizes so you might want to give it to me in mesurements, what name is aspen bedding sold by? (like lizzard litter or reptile bark or is it that mouse bedding stuff?) can I use I human heating pad to heat it? or should I use a light to? and should I just make air holes in the top of the container and in the sides. one more thing. a pet store told me it was ok to buy a CR ball yet I really dont want anything to do with an reptile farm in africa (damn I just ansered my own question dident I. I shouldent buy it :)) well there is another pet store selling ones that are possably captive bread so I'll look into those. P.S. if nothing else this helped my realise how people like to absorb information!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Answers (well, as best I can)...


1) Size of Rubbermaid is 5.83L for a baby to 4 months. Sorry for the metric (as I see you're in the States). Its 13"L x 8"W x 4.5"H.
Then, at 4-5 months old (depending on feeding schedule) they get moved to a 11.4L. Those are 16"L x 10"W x 6"H. I leave them in there until they are bursting at the seams (about 6-8 months). After that, put them in whatever you want.

2) Aspen chips are sold by aspen chips. Screw all the fancy-named stuff. It only succeeds in wasting your money on some company that just repackages products that are already available to us. Go to a feed barn or big pet store chain and buy a bag of aspen chips. It'll last 1 Ball Python probably 2 years! Make sure its aspen and not fir or pine. Aspen, and aspen alone.

3) Yes a Sunbeam heat pad on low will work fine. Some people are scared of them, but whatever. They are CSA and UL approved and I've used them a ton. Heat tape is best, but for one snake is just not really worth it.

4) Don't use a light to heat a snake (some snakes maybe, but that's another discussion). You Ball will derive its heat far better from the substrate than it will from a light source. Plus a light will overheat/dehydrate a small cage way too fast for any good to happen. Bottom heat, with the temps I've already mentioned is all you'll need.

5) I make air holes in the sides to keep humidity better. Its just preference. Also, I stack cages and what's the point of putting air holes on the top, only to cover it with another Rubbermaid?

6) Don't buy CH unless you have to. You live in the States, so you should never have to.

[krrc]

is 30% of the tank on the heat pad enough and I should keep the hide in the warm side and water bowl on the cool side right?

(I'm not use to such a little cage.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ideally, you'd either have a long hide that covers from hot to cool, or multiple hides (one cool, one warm). The snake may want to hide and be cool, or it may want to hide and be warm. Its up to you to provide the adequate choices for your snake to be a snake.

I'd cover 30% of one "end". (ie. don't heat a strip down the long side.).

:D

[krrc]

so really 90% of the cage will be taken up by hides and a water bowl?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Well, your water dish should be no more than a small deli cup. The hides need to be tiny (for reasons explained earlier). It covers about 40%. I'm eyeballing one of mine right now.

But even if it was a 100%, is that bad? Is open space useful to a Ball Python? Don't think of what's useful for us, think of what's useful for your snake.

[TurboSE]

Not giving advice, just my experiance.

I had two baby bp's in a 55G aquarium (1/3 screen top, 2/3 glass top) and they seemed very happy and were always very active. They hid frequently for short periods of time and then came back out. Hunting was never a problem, nor was shedding.

[krrc]

you said you had. What happend or did you just split them up?

[Pythonian]

ok i have a pretty big bp now... i haven't played with her much since i got the blood to care for since it's kinda iffy on it's health. But i took it out to clean the cage and it is pretty damn big now.. i mean wow. it pounds down rats now and geez. well anyway. it's hides are (2) planter cups that have approx 3 inch openings. the kind where they sell like single stem plants in. and she is ALWAYS in them. .. she can't fit.. but she loves it. They love to be in a confined place. Kinda like humans (well me personally) nothing better then being in bed with the blanket wrapped all around u and tucked in under you so it's hugging ur body. it's so safe. I think it's the same principle.
Mike

[Lisa]

Our balls have a bit bigger cage but they also have multiple hides available to them. sometimes they're in the hides some times they're trying to escape (sometimes i wonder if they're arborial). All i know is ours all good eaters and like to explore. My main complaint with small cages is thermo regulation, I find it's harder to grade the heat across it.

[TurboSE]

Originally posted by krrc
you said you had. What happend or did you just split them up?

I was baby-sitting one for a friend (his roommate, wouldn't allow a snake in the house) About two months ago, I moved out of town. I left the 55gal. with him. He still keeps his in that aquarium and it seems to be quite happy when I go to visit. It's always out and about.

Mine is now in a 10gal until I can build a suitable home and he doesn't seem any more/less happy, more/less hungry, or more/less agressive in the 10.

[krrc]

hmmmm.. well i dont think my burm will be out of it's 50 gal by the time I get my ball so I will go with the smaller cage but thanks for everones imput!